Ya know something? With all the gas prices being as ridiculous as they are, it's a good idea for Cadillac to have a v6. But, I think they should have the same car with an available v8 - the CTS-v.. So, I think this will all work out really well.. But, you SHOULD be able to drive a Cadillac and expect really good gas mileage if you want...

that would seem to be the direction they are going with a v6/v8 choice with the SRX a v6 in the CTS and v8 in the CTS-V, and the new STS will probably base with a V-6 as well with a V-8 option

I think that they should offer a V6 in every cadillac. I mean, most old people that go out and buy a deville arent going to use all the power the northstar has, but they still want a cadillac.

or they should actually give us the displacement on demand with switches to turn on and off.

That would be OK too, but that would be one more thing to fail and dealers to overcharge to fix. They should still offer a 6cy, although that would mean there would be 6cy sevilles on the used car market :(

Originally posted by elwesso
I think that they should offer a V6 in every cadillac. I mean, most old people that go out and buy a deville arent going to use all the power the northstar has, but they still want a cadillac.


i agree MB and BMW have had wide ranges in engine availibility for years...the 5 series seems to have at least 4 engines itself maybe more

Talking about MB and BMW vs cadillac, doest this sound familiar :D

Originally posted by elwesso
Talking about MB and BMW vs cadillac, doest this sound familiar :D


yep i was thinking the same thing

Personally, i would much rather put a V6 in than have displacement on demand, and just have it set on something else. I dont know how it is controlled, but however it is, it sounds like something that requires lots of time and effort for a dealer to do.

Originally posted by Brett
i agree MB and BMW have had wide ranges in engine availibility for years...the 5 series seems to have at least 4 engines itself maybe more

i thought 5 series only have 3 basic engines(525, 530, 540) and the monster v8 in the m5

but can you really imagine something like 2.5l inline6(184hp/175tq) and 3.0l inline6 (225hp/214tq) in our sts?


BMW
3 series
2.5 i6(184hp/175tq), 3.0 i6(225hp/214tq), 3.2 i6(m3)(333hp/262tq)

5 series
2.5 i6(184hp/175tq), 3.0 i6(225hp/214tq), 4.0 v8(290hp/324tq), 4.9 v8(m5)(394hp/368tq)

7 series
4.4 v8(325hp/330tq), 6.0 v12(438hp/444tq)

MB
c class
supercharged 1.8 i4(189hp/192tq), 2.6 v6(168hp/177tq), 3.2 v6(215hp/221tq), supercharged 3.2 v6(c32 amg)(349hp/332tq)

e class
3.2 v6(221hp/232tq), 5.0 v8(302hp/339tq)

s class
4.3 v8(275hp/295tq), 5.0 v8(302hp/339tq), 5.5 v12(493hp/590tq), supercharged 5.5 v8(s55 amg)(493hp/516tq)

Cadillac
CTS
3.2l v6(220hp/220tq) soon we will see the 260hp v6

Seville
4.6l v8 (300hp/295tq), 4.6l v8(275hp/300tq)

deville
4.6l v8 (300hp/295tq), 4.6l v8(275hp/300tq)

by looking at the stats most of bmw's engine seem to suck and it doesn't match the car at all. In the other hand mb seems to have done an excellent job picking out which engine goes where.

To me it doesnt matter, because i would get the biggest engine that the model offered. That is, if i could afford a BMW or MB

those are just numbers the seat of the pants power is what you feel in a bimmer. you feel it and its a instant grin from ear to ear

I dont think I would like a v6 in a caddy.

You have a point. But im saying for at least 75% of the cadillac market, this wouldnt dissapoint them. Think about it, grandma is a brand new deville. She never needs 280 let alone 300 HP, so if they put in the 3.8 that would be sufficient for them. Now for us, the power crazed, we need all the ponies we can get :D

why not a 4 banger then?

I don't know if a 4cyl would work with a heavy Cadillac.. But maybe.. All I know is, the Lexus GS300 (v6) is the GS that sells so much. The GS430 sells much less. But, they still have the most sales.. If people want a nice luxury car, they shouldn't be forced to buy the gas guzzler.. Give them the opportunity to buy the same luxurious, great-looking vehicle without the gas expense.. I'm pretty sure everyone does this except for Cadillac... Until now, I guess... We'll see...

I think a 6 popper will burn the same amout of gas because it has to work that much harder to pull the heavy caddy

Originally posted by Sal Collaziano
I don't know if a 4cyl would work with a heavy Cadillac.. But maybe.. All I know is, the Lexus GS300 (v6) is the GS that sells so much. The GS430 sells much less. But, they still have the most sales.. If people want a nice luxury car, they shouldn't be forced to buy the gas guzzler.. Give them the opportunity to buy the same luxurious, great-looking vehicle without the gas expense.. I'm pretty sure everyone does this except for Cadillac... Until now, I guess... We'll see...

Engine in the gs300 is almost identical to that of a supra. I6 tend to have a good powerband and torque. That's prolly why it does so well with that model

Is are stronger motors than Vs I6 in a caddy prolly wouldn't be that bad

Originally posted by Dead Sled
Is are stronger motors than Vs I6 in a caddy prolly wouldn't be that bad

Maybe they could consider modifying the new inline 6 from the Trailblazer so it could be used as a Cadillac engine.

An Inline 6 is what BMW still uses because of the smoothness inherent in it's design. And BMW's M3 makes 333hp from a 3.2 inline 6.

A new head design and increase in displacement, and it could be used from the top to the bottom.

Maybe Cadillac needs to turn into Microsoft and send some limos over to BMW in Germany and take some employees out to lunch...

Originally posted by Sal Collaziano
Maybe Cadillac needs to turn into Microsoft and send some limos over to BMW in Germany and take some employees out to lunch...

Besides GM hiring Lutz, they also hired an ex-Toyota production guru. So getting a BMW engineer or two, might not be too far out of the picture.

I think a straight six or slant six in a RWD caddy would be great but I'd still go for the 8

So would I, but im saying for the other market. A 4 banger wouldnt be enough for a caddy, unless it was "ricified". It would also take away some dignity from cadillac, going from the 500cid and then 30 years later have a 4 banger. The I6 that the trailblazer uses would be perfect, or even the 3.8 in the GPs.

Originally posted by elwesso
It would also take away some dignity from cadillac, going from the 500cid and then 30 years later have a 4 banger.

Most would agree and say that Cadillac lost it's diginity in the early '80's with the 4 banger Cimmaron.

Caddilac "cut thier hair" with that one

Originally posted by HotRodSaint
Besides GM hiring Lutz, they also hired an ex-Toyota production guru. So getting a BMW engineer or two, might not be too far out of the picture.

Cool. When did "we" get some Lexus in the picture? That's good to know...

Originally posted by HotRodSaint
Most would agree and say that Cadillac lost it's diginity in the early '80's with the 4 banger Cimmaron.

Sure they lost their dignity then, but when they came out with the northstar they are getting it back. They are still going uphill, and one wrong move could put them back in the 80s.

Like the 270 HP I-6 in the Trailblazer and Envoy?
Isn't Cadillac brining back the displacement on demand in the Escalade soon?

The I6 in the trailblazer would be perfect.

Cadillac is beginning to put displacemnt on demand, not on any current engines, but later ones. Which ones, couldnt tell you that.

A V-6 in a Cadillac? These are callad luxury cars for a reason! And the V-8 is a large part of that reason. The luxury of power on demand, When you need it! The rest of the time you pay a small premium for the LUXURY of it being there when you need or want it! A V-6 is working harder to pull the same car the same distance. It WILL wear out faster and you lose the LUXURY of long engine life! These cars are not built so that some guy that's worried about whether he can afford to pay the gas can look "BIG TIME" to his idiot friends! If you can not afford a LUXURY car....DO NOT BUY ONE! But don't ask that they cheapen the brand so that people without money can afford them! They Can't!!! THAT"S why they're LUXURY cars! It's a LUXURY that comes with success if you work hard and all goes well.....Then you too can afford to own a true luxury car. They make Cheesey Chevys, Buicks and Oldsmobiles with V-6's for those who want the nominal fuel savings combined with the lack of power associated with that choice. I do not think we need to repeat the debacle of crappy engines that we all had to deal with in the '80s and CHEAPEN the nameplate so that people that really can't afford them will buy them anyway!....Oh! I'm sorry, Do I sound like a snob? Too bad! I drive a luxury car 'cause I want and can afford luxury and I don't want to change because somebody else feels left out! That's how I feel about it! A V-6 In a Cadillac? NOT! In My garage!!

That is all true, fine and dandy, but ultimately its going to be what the market wants. If they want 6cy caddys, then that is what they will get. I would think that most people would want to get the 8cy, and most likely the dealer would push people to get the 8cy.

Yes, That's true! I find it interesting that we push the standards down....Then we're upset because standards are so low. I could see a reason to put an Inline 6 in a cadillac if it was shown to live up to the power requirements for a car this size/weight. Inline 6's tend to be torque monsters and that's a good thing and they can easily be made to perform remarkably well. V-6's on the other hand tend to be lacking in both torque and low end power making them unacceptable in my opinion for the performance required for a decent luxury car application.

Originally posted by kcnewell
Oh! I'm sorry, Do I sound like a snob? Too bad! I drive a luxury car 'cause I want and can afford luxury and I don't want to change because somebody else feels left out! That's how I feel about it! A V-6 In a Cadillac? NOT! In My garage!!

A snob would say that America and Cadillac built it's last real luxury car before WWII. A snob looks at a front wheel drive car as something his maid drives. A snob would look down on the lowly V8 as something the middle class people purchase. Snobs beleive that only a 12 cylinder is worthy of a true luxury car.

No, snob wasn't the word I was seeking. :rolleyes:

Having been born quite a while after WWII I never had the chance to own or drive any of the fabulous cars that were around in those days. I only have the more recent past to draw from. I have driven V-12 Jaguars and I really like the feel and the power and would truly love it if we had something like that in the Cadillac line. I have for some time here been on record as only being interested in American vehicles Particularly Cadillacs and Harley Davidsons. Since Cadillac does not currently offer a V-12 I must be snobbish about the lowly V-8. I just can't see lowering the standards of an otherwise fine car with the gutless V-6. The V-6 is in my opinion the only real problem with the CTS other than the interior being a little cramped!

i think finely tuned v6/i6 will be appropriate for the cts. However, current v6 in the cts seems like nothing but disgrace to me (maybe they should put the 4.4l 300hp north* from the gxp concept.

an I6 would be good but still if there was a V8 option I'd check that box. there's just kinda something wrong with a caddy with less than 8 slugs

I agree too, its like having a honda without a 4 banger!!

:D yeah like that too

My thought is that a 6CY would be pointless, because it would either a) be not powerful enough and wear out quick, B) Be powerful enough (and would probably require premium), but consume as much fuel as the 8cy, or C) a combination thereof.

but are we even sure that the CTS is a pure luxury car? I view it more as a sporty midsize sedan with many ammenities. The 3-series, Audis, G35, and others don't have 8 cylinders under the hood but they are luxurious in nature. Maybe what we are want is a base CTS with a V8 sort of as the car that sticks out. But wait until the v-series hits the pavement. Then the M3 will raise an eyebrow, and the G35 Coupe and Audi S4 will be crying home to mama.

I hope that's the case! Although it's hard for me to get my arms around the idea of a sporty midsize sedan from a company like Cadillac! I will concede that I thought the Seville was a bad idea when they were first introduced. It took me a few years to accept them and now they're my favorite model. The V-6 is just too much though, Makes me think of that reworked Cavalier ( Can't even speak the name!) that they tried to pass off as a Cadillac in the '80s. The CTS is way too cramped inside to EVER be considered a pure luxury car and therein lies the problem. Cadillac is a luxury car and has some great luxury/performance models out there. The CTS seems to be a little far from the fray to qualify as either one.

Originally posted by kcnewell
Cadillac is a luxury car and has some great luxury/performance models out there. The CTS seems to be a little far from the fray to qualify as either one.

The CTS is pretty much smack in the middle of the current luxury car fray.

By these numbers, it would appear that the majority of luxury car buyers in the USA prefer the entry level 6 cylinder sedans.

Jan 2003
Acura
TL................................................ 3,279
RL (I)........................................... 558

Audi
A4 (I)........................................... 3,152
A6/100 (I).................................... 1,377
A8 (I)........................................... 135

BMW
3 series (I) ................................. 8,389
5 series (I) ................................. 2,809
7 series (I) ................................. 1,744

Cadillac
CTS ............................................. 2,816
DeVille ......................................... 5,940
Seville.......................................... 2,387

Infiniti
G35 (I)......................................... 4,743
I30/I35 (I).................................... 1,170
M45 (I)........................................ 320
Q45 (I)......................................... 234

Jaguar
X-Type (I) .................................... 1,673
S-Type (I) .................................... 1,202
XJ (I) .......................................... 439

Lexus
ES 300 (I).................................... 4,526
GS 300 (I) ................................... 738
GS 430 (I) ................................... 167
LS 430 (I).................................... 1,535

Lincoln
LS................................................ 3,205
Town Car ..................................... 3,605

Merceded Benz
C class (I) ................................... 4,613
E class (I) ................................... 4,513
S class (I) ................................... 1,824

Go sit in a CTS with a manual tranny. VERY VERY nice. I was at a Cadillac dealer in the Norfolk area and I begged the guy to let me drive it, but that was their only manual-equipped CTS and he wasn't going to pull it out of the showroom for a casual test drive. He said they couldn't keep their hands on these cars -- they're sold before they even sit a week!

Originally posted by jadcock
Go sit in a CTS with a manual tranny. VERY VERY nice.

I will, as soon as the bring the CTS-V out! The majority of buyers may like a 6, but I want the RWD V8 manual transmission!

KC, at first I was with you....I thought the CTS was a bit of a turn off since it corners the sporty 6 cyl market. But like jadcock, I test drove a stick CTS and it was very fun. Besides, wait till they update the Seville ona sigma platform...mmm mm :D bouncer: :thumbsup: :worship:

Lucky Chucky. I didn't get to drive one...I just set in it. My wife says we're holding out for an SRX when it comes out later this year. I'd like to hold out for the '05 Seville. Either way, we can't afford either of them new, so we'll be looking for a used one about 4 years from now. :)

the only problem i have with CTS is the size...im a tall/large guy and its not all that comfortable...the V6 doesnt really bother me its what i would expect in that size car though i would buy the V-series if i were to buy a CTS at all

IMO, I wished they would have restyled the catera that bring out the CTS. Its a nice car, but not very much room. The catera wasnt all that great, but it was nice, and some room.