: 1988 Fleetwood Brougham A/C Question...



shreddedtires
06-20-05, 11:02 PM
when I use ANY setting on my a/c whether it be high, low, or automatic, it blows out the defroster and floor heater 90% of the time and blows out the dash vents about 10% of the time. Is this normal? Is there any way to fix it to blow out the dash vents more often? it is getting over 96 degrees here in Texas and more front-flowing air would be very appreciated. Thanks in advance.

AElayyat
06-21-05, 04:20 AM
when I use ANY setting on my a/c whether it be high, low, or automatic, it blows out the defroster and floor heater 90% of the time and blows out the dash vents about 10% of the time. Is this normal? Is there any way to fix it to blow out the dash vents more often? it is getting over 96 degrees here in Texas and more front-flowing air would be very appreciated. Thanks in advance.

The problem is going to be the blower motor or the climate control programmer. I don't have a lot of experience diagnosing the symptoms of a bad blower motor but there are other members on this forum who should be able to help you.

If the climate control programmer is bad then you could have problems such as the temp. not changing when you set it, etc.

N0DIH
06-21-05, 02:07 PM
Is the vacuum line to the programmer disconnected?

It still needs vacuum, and the default "safe" mode is defroster with no vacuum.

shreddedtires
06-21-05, 03:13 PM
I just went out and checked the vacuum lines, and they are totally air-tight. I pulled the hose off the vacuum canister and heard a "PSSSHHH" sound. I put the hose back on, tested it, and no fix. It still blows out the heater and defroster. It used to blow more out of the dash, but it hasn't lately at all. What should I try next?

N0DIH
06-21-05, 06:11 PM
Do you have a vacuum pump? That would be quite helpful in verifying the vacuum motors are working. But they are all controlled by the programmer. So if it is confused, it will blow the wrong places.

But it IS blow cold air, right? Just wrong places?

You might be able to "hot wire" a vacuum hose from the engine onto the vacuum motor that directs the air to the defroster in a pinch, then figure it out when it cools off. FSM is needed, mine is an 85, it might help some. Try to verify that you are getting vacuum to the programmer like it should. Maybe a disconnect between them.

shreddedtires
06-22-05, 12:00 AM
Yes, the a/c blows perfectly cold, but after it hits the HOT windshield, it warms the air quite effectively, therefore it blows HOT air almost directly in your face. It is cold air when it leaves the vent. but it's barely enough to be effective. The "low" setting blows slowly, "auto" blows medium, and "high" blows hard. Pushing the defrost button does nothing different, but I did make it start blowing out the air vents once when I pushed defrost then auto. That hasn't worked in the past 3 weeks though. Temperatures are supposed to be in the upper 90s on Thursday and I'm NOT looking forward to it. I checked my Haynes manual and it tells me almost nothing about how to fix the a/c. It simply suggests taking it to a qualified mechanic because it takes special tools. I'm not a rich man, and the car needs brakes as it is. I am pretty sure I know what a vacuum canister looks like, but I have no idea what a vacuum programmer looks like. I am NOT a mechanic, so please use small words. I know the basics of working on cars, but I may not be talented enough or qualified to figure this out. Thanks for the help so far. I appreciate your time.

AElayyat
06-22-05, 03:38 AM
Yes, the a/c blows perfectly cold, but after it hits the HOT windshield, it warms the air quite effectively, therefore it blows HOT air almost directly in your face. It is cold air when it leaves the vent. but it's barely enough to be effective. The "low" setting blows slowly, "auto" blows medium, and "high" blows hard. Pushing the defrost button does nothing different, but I did make it start blowing out the air vents once when I pushed defrost then auto. That hasn't worked in the past 3 weeks though. Temperatures are supposed to be in the upper 90s on Thursday and I'm NOT looking forward to it. I checked my Haynes manual and it tells me almost nothing about how to fix the a/c. It simply suggests taking it to a qualified mechanic because it takes special tools. I'm not a rich man, and the car needs brakes as it is. I am pretty sure I know what a vacuum canister looks like, but I have no idea what a vacuum programmer looks like. I am NOT a mechanic, so please use small words. I know the basics of working on cars, but I may not be talented enough or qualified to figure this out. Thanks for the help so far. I appreciate your time.

The programmer is behind the glove box. You will have to remove the glove box liner to access the programmer. The programmer is the black rectangular box with the temp. door on the top and the vaccume lines are on the bottom of this black box. Check to see if the "plug" with the vaccume lines is properly connected.

Good luck.

shreddedtires
06-22-05, 06:58 PM
http://img190.echo.cx/img190/7971/hearseglovebox2zh.jpg

When I took out the glove box liner, this is what I see. The little black "box" at the top right that is about the size of a doughnut has the orange tube securely fastened. I disconnected the wiring harness at the bottom that was hooked in the silver box, blew it out, and re-connected it. Still no fix. I'm about to give up. I hope the pic helps a little.

shreddedtires
06-22-05, 07:31 PM
Ok, I found something unplugged on top of a black a/c something-or-other right behind the condenser. I plugged it in, it was a 3-prong plug, and I noticed nothing new. I have no clue what I hooked up. It doesn't seem to help the problem though. the end of my rope is getting very near. Thanks for all the help so far, and any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

The Ape Man
06-22-05, 07:48 PM
The diaphram with the orange hose is for the recirculation air door. It should open with the AC set on 60 degrees with the engine running. If it does not open then you either have no vacuum to the programmer or most likely a programmer problem. The programmer is on the left side of your picture. It blends in with the rest of the HVAC box because it is the same color.
It has a bunch of vacuum lines hooked to it through a molded plug on the lower frons as well as some wires. The silver box is a mystery.

AElayyat
06-22-05, 07:50 PM
Ok, I found something unplugged on top of a black a/c something-or-other right behind the condenser. I plugged it in, it was a 3-prong plug, and I noticed nothing new. I have no clue what I hooked up. It doesn't seem to help the problem though. the end of my rope is getting very near. Thanks for all the help so far, and any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

I owe you an appology, I shouldn't have refered to the programmer as "the little black box." The programmer is the box I circled in your picture. The "plug" I am thinking is unplugged is at the bottom of that box, you could also remove the lower dash cover, the black one on the passenger side, for more access.

N0DIH
06-22-05, 08:38 PM
The 85 FSM says to check the vacuum hoses first. If all ok (meaning all vacuum circuits work under the dash) then the flow charts get to the control head or the programmer. Do make sure the vacuum is getting from the engine to under dash. Check the vacuum diode if it has one, make sure it isn't reversed. Remove it if you question it. It is designed to stop the vacuum leaking back into the intake manifold when the engine is off. But if backwards, nothing gets into the underdash area. I don't remember if it is before or after the vacuum ball (which you confirmed had vacuum)

My first thoughts are still vacuum. Find the defrost vacuum motor, and plumb it directly to engine vacuum, you might temp fix it right away. Or just check the hose, it should have vacuum to it. The diaphrams can rupture over time and age. So check it out. I have my book at home, if you need more info, or anyone else with a FSM can post how to test the vacuum circuits.

The defrost motor/diaphram is on the left side center I believe. I know it well on my 80 T/A, it is bad, and all I get is defroster air. It sucks even with the AC, so I know the "problem" well....

The Ape Man
06-22-05, 09:04 PM
The diaphram with the orange hose is for the recirculation air door. It should open with the AC set on 60 degrees with the engine running. If it does not open then you either have no vacuum to the programmer or most likely a programmer problem. The programmer is on the left side of your picture. It blends in with the rest of the HVAC box because it is the same color.
It has a bunch of vacuum lines hooked to it through a molded plug on the lower frons as well as some wires. The silver box is a mystery.

Ur uh the silver box is the ECM.

shreddedtires
06-23-05, 07:15 PM
http://img13.echo.cx/img13/973/thingyunderhood8zj.jpg

I found that the bottom hose on the above thingy shaped like a black baseball was broken. I cut off the broken part and re-connected the hose to the black thingy. It is located to the left of the air cleaner, near the firewall. I have no idea what the thingy does, but I reconnected it. Whatever it does, however, it doesn't fix the a/c. I'm still having the same problem. all the other hoses appear good and connected, and don't have any additional holes in them. I wish this was an easy fix, but nothing worth having is easy. Thanks for all the help so far, I appreciate the time and effort all you guys have put in trying to help me. I am left still scratching my head on this one... :hmm:

N0DIH
06-23-05, 08:01 PM
Sounds like a vacuum ball, aka, vacuum resovoir for the low vacuum 307's so the air doesn't go to the defroster when on a long uphill or under heavy load.

Try this, find the vacuum line from the firewall to the underhood. Whatever it is connected to, disconnect and connect it directly to a manifold port, like on the back of the intake somewhere where it is getting solid vacuum. Eliminate the underhood quagmare.

shreddedtires
06-23-05, 11:03 PM
Alrighty. Today I started chasing hoses all over the engine bay and I took off the bottom plate that holds the air cleaner. There were a few vacuum hoses that were not connected very well. I pushed the hoses back on to the connectors, and put it all back together. I started the engine, turned the a/c on "Auto" and prayed a short prayer. The a/c started blowing out the VENTS!!! YAY!!! I was SO HAPPY I killed the engine and ran inside to show my wife the fruits of my 3-day labor in 96 degree weather. We got in the car to go for a drive and I turned the a/c on, and it started blowing out the defroster and floor. I felt like such a dumb-a$$. I figured I'd test the heater to make sure it worked, so I cranked the heater up to 90 degrees and it worked quite well. VERY hot, but still blowing out the defroster and floor. I adjusted the temp back to 60 degrees and it started blowing out the vents like before!!! I think I have figured out a solution that works. Strange solution, but it apparently works. Thanks N0DIH for all your help. You must be a professional Cadillac mechanic or something. If you are not, you should be. BIG thanks also to AElayyat and The Ape Man. I'm glad there are great people on this site who KNOW what they are talking about. In my Haynes manual the a/c section is VERY short and only says to take the car to a "Qualified Professional" to get the a/c fixed. I'm neither qualified nor professional, but I feel a sense of accomplishment in fixing this quirk with ALL YOUR help. Pat yourselves on the back for this one. You guys saved me a LOT of money. :D :D :D :D

N0DIH
06-24-05, 02:20 PM
Does it start to go to defrosters as you start to increase the temp?

My 94 has a calibration factor, -5 to +5 for the temp. At 0 it took to get to 65 degrees to get air out of the vents. (When 70F out). So I offset it to +2 (maybe -2) and it is fine at 72-74 degrees and it operates perfectly.

In 90-95F it blows icecubes....

N0DIH
06-26-05, 11:48 PM
See if this helps.

Sounds like vacuum to me still, check to make sure the ball isn't cracked or there isn't still a leak.

Also, on some models, the defroster door would get stuck in the defroster position. Sloppy glue, mainly G Bodies though. But it is possible it is getting stuck and just can't move.

Or weak vacuum and it can't move.

Stick a vacuum gauge on the ball where the hose to the passenger compartment would go. It should be strong, and hold when the engine is shut off.