: Honest Opinions Needed on the Maggie



thebigjimsho
06-18-05, 06:15 PM
OK guys, I was originally going to look for a set of 19s to put on the V. But I've got new tires already. So I don't want to waste that money. Plus, riding alongside DansCTSV last night, the V looked so good with just the B&B added.

So I've been trying to figure out what I want to do with the $4G+ I was going to put in to wheels. I've looked at DTE, MTI, More Performance and I don't know if I want to stay NA and get a 75-90hp gain for the $5G it would cost over the bolt-ons(CAI, headers, catback, tune). Obviously everyone is screaming to themselves, their computers, spouses or dogs: "GET THE DAMN MAGNACHARGER!!" But some hesitations have I.

I want to keep this car for as long into the future I can see. I don't want to compromise longevity for fun right now. It will eventually be a garage queen in 2-3 years and I'm keeping all the original parts I replace and would like to keep everything original. I'd hate to be doing rebuilds anytime soon.

I'm concerned about longevity because I will be tracking the car. And I'm concerned about even the best S/C systems on the track sustaining high RPMs for much longer than a drag car or occasional street racer would. Heat and stress on a stock internal, high compression motor gets me a little uneasy.

I also have brand new 245 width street tires and 2 sets of race rubber that are also 245 width. Is 550hp going to be too much for even race tires to handle, within reason, on the track. As much as we may hate to admit it, there are situations where you can have too much hp for what you're trying to do. I don't have the cash to get wider rims, tires AND a Maggie.

So I need very honest pros and cons into POSSIBLY investing in a Maggie. It wasn't even on my radar until seeing Dan's beautiful V up close, at speed, with stock wheels. Then the doormen at the Four Seasons were gushing at a guests E55 this morning. So that ate at me. Then there's the thought of surprising my buddy, turboSHO, at Indy next month with a much lighter and much more powerful beast.

But again, I don't want to plunk down over $5G and not be %100 ecstatic with the decision. So again, please, very honest answers.

thebigjimsho
06-18-05, 08:58 PM
Nothing? Lie to me, then.:bonkers:

dannystang
06-18-05, 09:04 PM
Umm...

DO IT!!! DO IT!!! DO IT!!! ???

Edit: I would probably be concerned about going say 140+ for extended period of time with that blower...

Dont they get hot?

Then again, its no fun unless something explodes.

DILLIGAF
06-18-05, 09:48 PM
Jim,I felt the same way you did for 6 months.Then I jumped,as I've said before though,I don't drive long distances very often.Longevity?If the rotors need rebuilt every 30,000 miles=O well.I recently purchased a custom tune from stealthV and made me like the car even more.I really like these cars,but for me the maggie is a must do,I would do it again in a heartbeat.I wouldn't go back!

Gordy Petrovski
06-18-05, 09:59 PM
21cmc finished my car 2 weeks agoe & I could not believe I waited this long to do it. I think if U are that concerned about your cars longevity than keep it stock but if U want to look like this every day:burn:than pull the trigger man U will not regret it.Good luck

wildwhl
06-18-05, 10:56 PM
BigJim -

Define tracking the car, in your terms, so I may answer to the best of my knowledge (or just do it).

WW

Dreamin
06-18-05, 11:35 PM
Weakest link in the LS6 is the pistons as they were not designed with forced induction nor nitrous in mind as the ring lands are very small in addition to not being a forged piston. Nothing else scares me, not the bottom end, not the tranny, etc.

As you said, in 'spirited' street driving, and drag strips... run reasonable boost and no worries.

But for road race track usage... it's just a matter of time... tick-tock.

Question is... how many track event do plan on doing between now and the time the car becomes a garage queen? 1-2 a year? or 5-10 a year. 1-2 a year... no worries... once a month, foggetaboutit. A H/C is a better setup if you're tracking the car that often.

Tires? Power oversteer is a problem with the STOCK motor on the 245s... exiting fast 3rd gear turns (tight ones or sweepers)...the rear comes around on me if i'm not really on the ball... the car will be a handful with +100hp!

wildwhl
06-18-05, 11:38 PM
Remember Dreamin, throttle control is key :thumbsup:

Dreamin
06-19-05, 12:10 AM
We gotta get you onto a road course WW!

When you've been 6" off the bumper of a 911 all the way around the track... finding a way around him is the most ADDICTIVE thing you'll experience...you have one goal, nothing else matters... at that point, self-control, throttle-control, good-judgement... it all goes out the window. :lildevil:

thebigjimsho
06-19-05, 12:12 AM
As of this year, I'll be looking at maybe 4-5 sessions per year. I haven't as of yet in '05 because I've changed my mind often about the tire/wheel situation in both street and race form. Once I get wheels for the race rubber, I'm in business.

My SHO was S/C and had issues from go. Obviously, the Magnacharger is different and specially engineered for the V, whereas my Powerdyne was a custom job that was copied from others. But I'm not much of a wrencher and I certainly do not have the time to spend time repairing any issues. I wouldn't want to spend my weekends replacing pistons and such.

wildwhl
06-19-05, 01:27 AM
We gotta get you onto a road course WW!

When you've been 6" off the bumper of a 911 all the way around the track... finding a way around him is the most ADDICTIVE thing you'll experience...you have one goal, nothing else matters... at that point, self-control, throttle-control, good-judgement... it all goes out the window. :lildevil:

You're right, Dreamin. I have hopes to make at least one track event this summer...hopes :suspense:

heavymetals
06-19-05, 02:31 AM
I never considered any mod I have done as an investment.

What happens if you wreck or it gets stolen?:confused:

Enjoy life.

You will always regret not doing it, and even more so if you have ever had the chance to drive a maggied V.:histeric:

jlakowicz
06-19-05, 07:15 AM
Get the Maggie. It only makes power when needed, so its no strain on the engine in mormal driving. Before the Maggie I didn't like how high I was always reving the engine, now its always at low rpm around town. I also did a MP cam, the car sounds awsome without being annoying in any way, unless you prefer the sound of a Honda or Nissan. The car runs no hotter with the Maggie as far as I can tell.

wildwhl
06-19-05, 11:29 AM
BigJim -

I'm not an expert - and I didn't even sleep at a Holiday Inn Express last night - but I wouldn't hesitate putting the Maggie on given your descriptiong of events.

Basically, the way I see it, the driver is responsible for modulating power - regardless of how much there is. Sure, it might make the V more difficult to drive. That's a given. But it also might make life more difficult on the rest of the cars at the track - and isn't that part of the reason to go in the first place :want:

Throttle response, notably with the stock Magnuson tune, is very much like stock. The power is very smooth and comes on low enough that you'll not be surprised by it in a turn, or at least I don't think you would.

Besides...the rest of the time (even when she is a garage queen) the maggie just makes so much sense :yup:

thebigjimsho
06-20-05, 03:18 PM
Thanks for the responses guys. I really am not sure what I'm going to finally do.

kimcheejeegae
06-20-05, 04:16 PM
My dealership has a "performance parts and services" side. They said they would install a Maggie on my car and I would not lose my factory warranty. They supercharge alot of the Escalades in my neighborhood. So I'm really tempted to go this route instead of going through a local "tuner" shop. A bit more money I'm sure, but the ability to keep my factory warranty... not too shabby.

Kadonny
06-20-05, 04:47 PM
My dealership has a "performance parts and services" side. They said they would install a Maggie on my car and I would not lose my factory warranty. They supercharge alot of the Escalades in my neighborhood. So I'm really tempted to go this route instead of going through a local "tuner" shop. A bit more money I'm sure, but the ability to keep my factory warranty... not too shabby.

Not too shabby? Keeping the factory warranty is key! I would do the same thing.

AZPowerAndSound
06-20-05, 04:57 PM
this option is still available from any authorized magnacharger dealer/distributor.

Keys to this option:
warranty is for the remainder of the factory warranty. Warranty does not start until 1500 miles and/or 30 days after install.

kimcheejeegae
06-20-05, 05:13 PM
this option is still available from any authorized magnacharger dealer/distributor.

Keys to this option:
warranty is for the remainder of the factory warranty. Warranty does not start until 1500 miles and/or 30 days after install.


Right... I guess my point was... although not stated very clearly... was that the dealership would honor the factory warranty (remainder) as long as I did my mods through them. I know Magnacharger sells a 3/36,000 warranty with the maggie... but what exactly does that cover... i mean for $200 it's a no brainer.. unless there are some.. "CATCHES".

Dado DTM
06-20-05, 05:32 PM
I guess it all depends on what you plan on doing with the car. If this is a car that you are building to just drive around and show it off go with the 19's, stereo, etc.. All the bling stuff. Now if you want something to have fun with which is probably the purpose you bought a V series to begin with then forget all the useless stuff. 19's will make your car handle like a pig. There is nothing worse then adding rotational mass to your car, doesn't matter if the 19's you are getting are LIGHTWEIGHT you also have to keep in mind the weight of the tires. The car will roll more, brake less, accelerate slower, skinnier tires due to bigger wheels, etc... The list goes on. IMO stick with the 18's and go all out on the go.

The car looks great as it is except for the ride height, which would be nice to drop it a bit and make it look a little more aggressive. For extra power, this is a never-ending dream and the possibilities are endless. Since you are on a budget the supercharger, exhaust, headers, suspension, sway bars would be something that would have you smiling everyday as you go drive it.

If you go that route I would recommend contacting Moore Cadillac and ask for Damian Harney 703-448-6210. He could give you more info on what would be offered as far as warranties and stuff. Very friendly guy and I am sure a couple of you guys have dealt with him. There is a plus since he works at a dealership and you won’t have a problem with warranty issues since this would be offered from the actual dealership and installed THERE. Good luck

c5racr1
06-20-05, 05:44 PM
skip the maggie get GMPP ported LS6 heads, good cam and long tube headers, put 100 Rear wheel HP and about 80-100 RWT (depending on cam selection, and smoke a maggie car, over and over again.

V-seriesTech
06-20-05, 05:46 PM
skip the maggie get GMPP ported LS6 heads, good cam and long tube headers, put 100 Rear wheel HP and about 80-100 RWT (depending on cam selection, and smoke a maggie car, over and over again.


:devil:

Why not just do both? :p

StealthV
06-20-05, 06:11 PM
FYI - an aftermarket tune on the Maggie voids the warranty. Without an aftermarket tune, you can get similar power levels for half the cost of a Maggie by going the headers, x-pipe, CAI route. Without an aftermarket tune, the Maggie is lacking. :)

dannystang
06-20-05, 06:24 PM
Huh? Headers,x-pipe-cai will only net 50-60 hp?

thebigjimsho
06-20-05, 06:28 PM
OK, now I'm not a newbie but if I go the N/A route, who seems to have the best rep for heads and camwork?? I'm going to Indy next month and I was thinking the guys at DTE could do the work for me and tune the car as well.

It's funny how when you get to decision-making time, how your brain seems to lose function. I feel very indecisive right now. One minute it's Maggie, the next it's N/A.

StealthV
06-20-05, 06:28 PM
A stock Maggie tune is conservative. Unless you are willing to give up the Maggie warranty and go aftermarket tune, my recommendation would be headers and exhaust for less than half the money.

StealthV
06-20-05, 06:30 PM
OK, now I'm not a newbie but if I go the N/A route, who seems to have the best rep for heads and camwork?? I'm going to Indy next month and I was thinking the guys at DTE could do the work for me and tune the car as well.

It's funny how when you get to decision-making time, how your brain seems to lose function. I feel very indecisive right now. One minute it's Maggie, the next it's N/A.

Buy a set of AFR heads and a nice cam. Spend a Saturday getting to know your car.

dannystang
06-20-05, 06:33 PM
Oh..Gotcha.

I am going shorty belt and praying for 500+ hp.

Jimsho, thats a tough one! You can probaby make alot more power doing heads, and cam. I donno how lumpy you have to get though?

If you don't care about how loud, or that your car rocks like a boat in 50 ft waves you can do heads, cam and as it become a garage queen put on a blower than can make power like a vortech.

I like the idea of a maggie cause its completely bolt-on sleeper...and if you want to return to stock its easy.

StealthV
06-20-05, 07:36 PM
There's nothing sleeper about a Maggie. The whine sort of gives it away.

Picture this - I'm accelerating quite briskly from a stop light with a forum member's Maggied V the next car back. Overpowering my B&B exhaust, all I hear is the whine behind me.

Maggies rock. The warranty seems has too many loop holes to be of value. No aftermarket parts, pulleys, tunes, doesn't cover the diff, etc.

lasstss
06-20-05, 08:26 PM
Just remember that having AFR slapped on the front of the heads is no different that having A maggie staring you in the face. Warranty wise, a good mechanic will give you up...

thebigjimsho
02-28-07, 11:51 AM
Almost 2 years later...

I never did much but throw on a B&B catback, FG2s and a UUC shifter. And get wheels for the race rubber. I've got Hotchkis and GC ready to install and will definitely do headers and a tune this spring. I just don't have the time to do heads and a cam myself and don't think I want to spend the $$$ to have someone else do it.

This housing market is complicating things...

svassh
02-28-07, 12:48 PM
Finally an update on this!

Just kidding

rand49er
02-28-07, 02:05 PM
Finally an update on this! ...Ah-h-h ... the other shoe finally drops. Great timing, too!!! :thumbsup:

BigJim, com'on, let's do a maggie group purchase coming up. I should have the dough pulled together in another four to six weeks which would put us into mid April. Plus, your car must be close to that garage queen stage by now; mine's a GQ for the most part (about 2k miles the last six months). The maggie is 120-bolt-on HP that's reversible. That's my big reservation about heads/cam/valve springs/push rods/etc. Just sock your LS6 intake manifold away in storage for the future. How much better can it get?

Ever since ronr let me drive his maggied '04, I've got the S/C bug. I want the power, and I know a guy with a GQ M5 that I'd love to out brag ... he's such toysnot-kinda guy, if you know what I mean ... makes me wanna:vomit:.

So, let's plan on rounding up a half dozen or so of us for a GP. Heck, there might be a more than that ... maybe a dozen! Whaddaya say? :bouncy:

thebigjimsho
02-28-07, 02:12 PM
I thought the Maggie just went from cheap date to double your fun escort night on the pricing?

RunningOnEMT
02-28-07, 02:13 PM
why does everyone overlook the centrifugals ? the D1SC kit from EPP looks mighty tempting to me. I've had roots/lysholm powered vehicles for a while now and i usually just wind up turning them into heat guns. from what i understand snails are more thermally efficient...

now what i don't know a lot about is where the boost comes on and how they do with high revs

thebigjimsho
02-28-07, 02:18 PM
why does everyone overlook the centrifugals ? Cause everytime I ask my girlfriend that, I get kicked out of the house!

RunningOnEMT
02-28-07, 02:22 PM
you're just asking the wrong way ... its not so much a request as a statement

"BLOWER ME!!!"

rand49er
02-28-07, 02:26 PM
I thought the Maggie just went from cheap date to double your fun escort night on the pricing?Selling my son's car (that I paid for and he didn't bother to pay me back :rant2: ). Figure that'll bring in $4k. Need a beater?

http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.jsp?car_id=217884403&dealer_id=59590057&car_year=2002&model=FORDZX2&num_records=25&make2=&start_year=2002&keywordsfyc=&keywordsrep=&engine=&certified=&body_code=0&fuel=&search_type=used&distance=25&make=FORD&color=&min_price=4000&drive=&default_sort=priceDESC&max_mileage=&style_flag=1&sort_type=priceDESC&address=48178&advanced=&end_year=2002&doors=&transmission=&max_price=5000&cardist=0

thebigjimsho
02-28-07, 02:29 PM
Selling my son's car (that I paid for and he didn't bother to pay me back :rant2: ). Figure that'll bring in $4k. Need a beater?

http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.jsp?car_id=217884403&dealer_id=59590057&car_year=2002&model=FORDZX2&num_records=25&make2=&start_year=2002&keywordsfyc=&keywordsrep=&engine=&certified=&body_code=0&fuel=&search_type=used&distance=25&make=FORD&color=&min_price=4000&drive=&default_sort=priceDESC&max_mileage=&style_flag=1&sort_type=priceDESC&address=48178&advanced=&end_year=2002&doors=&transmission=&max_price=5000&cardist=0

If it were earlier in the winter, sure.

The Tony Show
02-28-07, 02:33 PM
why does everyone overlook the centrifugals ? the D1SC kit from EPP looks mighty tempting to me. I've had roots/lysholm powered vehicles for a while now and i usually just wind up turning them into heat guns. from what i understand snails are more thermally efficient...

now what i don't know a lot about is where the boost comes on and how they do with high revs

I had a Vortech Centrifugal on my Miata, and I'd say "pass" to anyone who asked me. They're loud as hell (planetary gears...crunch crunch crunch), boost doesn't come on until up high with a safe pulley, and you really can't feel the power. If I couldn't feel it in a car with 110hp stock, you sure as hell aint going to feel it starting at 400hp.

Without getting into a 5 page tachnical rant, the main problem is the boost curve: At low RPM, the car feels totally stock. As the revs rise, boost builds exponentially until redline, but you never get a satisfying "thrust" of power. To make the boost come on lower, you need a smaller pulley, but then you run the risk of pushing too much boost at high RPMs and need at really careful tune. Tuning these things is a bitch.

In the end, you can achieve the same top end power with a good cam and heads for a lot less money, without stressing the bottom-end with boost, and without tuning nightmares.

RunningOnEMT
02-28-07, 02:43 PM
what about the vortech HU's?

or the NOVI's

i'm just trying to keep my options open...i know nothing is happening drivetrain wise until my warranty is up ... besides maybe a little squirt of giggle gas

Luna.
02-28-07, 02:57 PM
There's nothing sleeper about a Maggie. The whine sort of gives it away.

Picture this - I'm accelerating quite briskly from a stop light with a forum member's Maggied V the next car back. Overpowering my B&B exhaust, all I hear is the whine behind me.

Maggies rock. The warranty seems has too many loop holes to be of value. No aftermarket parts, pulleys, tunes, doesn't cover the diff, etc.

Yeah, you're right--the whine give it away...but that's pretty much only after you've matted the throttle & are spanking whomever is messin' with ya... :)

I agree with what you said about the maggie warranty problems. I will be honest, however, and say that they (Magnason) are often very flexible when implementing their warranty. In other words, the letter of the warranty might be that they can deny coverage, but they sometimes still honor it.

Bigjim--if I were you, I'd contact Magna directly and get some of your concerns on the table from minute one. I would think hearing positives from them would be more of a comfort than most of what you will read here, as they work with the damn thing each day, every day. Of course, the drawback is that they are trying to sell them, BUT, getting them on board from minute one is a good thing.

For instance, before purchasing, I'd get them to agree that you will get some range of rwhp/rwtq to the tires after installation (say, 100-130 rwhp...NOT on their dyno mind you...). I'd also voice any warranty concerns that you might have. It says right in the warranty documentation that nothing is covered if not in writing from them. Well, that suggests to me that they will still honor their warranty if certain mods are made, but that they just want to be in the loop. Heat soak/tracking might be another topic, etc.

This way, if they make you comfortable with the purchase, you have something to fall back on in case it doesn't work as they indicated to you it would.

heavymetals
02-28-07, 05:35 PM
Maggies work.

I have one on Mr. Vette also.

Magnuson customer support kind of took a hit when Brian left.:rant2:

They sure didn't and wouldn't fix the fuel routing.:mad:

Glad someone on this forum took the matter into their own SKILLED HANDS and machined out a fix. :thumbsup:

austin
02-28-07, 06:48 PM
This is a good post... I've been wondering about the six speed transmission holding up to maggies new found hp/trq. I read somewhere that the LS7 has a specificaly beefed up transmision to handle the extra hp/trq. I think GM revised certain parts of the 05-06 tranny, but i'm not sure if it brings it up to LS7's tranny standards. I think it is the output shaft setup that is the weak point on our tranny's. I would also like to know what the long term effect on the engine would be. especialy since our engines are 10:00 or so compression, which is considered high for blown motor.

BryanS
02-28-07, 07:00 PM
The low end torque grabs you by the seat of the pants. Remember, with a car of this weight it's all about torque unless all your races start from 50 MPH. My Maggie develops 418 RWTQ from 2400 rpm to 5500rpm.

urbanski
02-28-07, 07:04 PM
http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n201/therealurbanski/117175240981373.jpg

ctsvflorida
02-28-07, 07:32 PM
BIGJIM: My opinion would be if you want to track the car a lot then wouldn't you want a lighter flywheel to start and possibly a smaller crank pulley? I know our flywheels are junk and I should be getting my UUC flywheel installed tomorrow so I can let you know how that is. I have heard only the best about them. Then, as far as heads and cam goes, well, you see what I have done and with the flywheel I am doing a cam only first and figure to get low 400rwhp and I will use a cam to bring the rwtq to hopefully the 400 range as well! That would be cam only and I am actually shooting for over 410/400 but we'll see how that goes. Keep in mind that the maggie is going to heat soak, one way or another, and it is about 125lbs. more weight so do the math and the cam only is a pretty good idea. If I think I want more one day I will do heads but I think I will be fine with the cam and maybe some other goodies. Do the Fast intake and 90mm TB and you will be into the upper 420rwhp range easily with the right tune! I will be doing this stuff shortly after the clutch and flywheel go in and I will keep you posted.

ryneV
02-28-07, 11:35 PM
The low end torque grabs you by the seat of the pants. Remember, with a car of this weight it's all about torque unless all your races start from 50 MPH. My Maggie develops 418 RWTQ from 2400 rpm to 5500rpm.



My 402 makes 450 rwt from 2500 to 5500 rpm. 480+rwt from4000 to 5000 rpm. I bet it cost is very close to a maggie.

ryneV
02-28-07, 11:39 PM
BIGJIM: My opinion would be if you want to track the car a lot then wouldn't you want a lighter flywheel to start and possibly a smaller crank pulley? I know our flywheels are junk and I should be getting my UUC flywheel installed tomorrow so I can let you know how that is. I have heard only the best about them. Then, as far as heads and cam goes, well, you see what I have done and with the flywheel I am doing a cam only first and figure to get low 400rwhp and I will use a cam to bring the rwtq to hopefully the 400 range as well! That would be cam only and I am actually shooting for over 410/400 but we'll see how that goes. Keep in mind that the maggie is going to heat soak, one way or another, and it is about 125lbs. more weight so do the math and the cam only is a pretty good idea. If I think I want more one day I will do heads but I think I will be fine with the cam and maybe some other goodies. Do the Fast intake and 90mm TB and you will be into the upper 420rwhp range easily with the right tune! I will be doing this stuff shortly after the clutch and flywheel go in and I will keep you posted.



The cam size required to get you 400 rwhp and 400 rwt w/ stock heads is going to be BIG. Looking at peak numbers is the wrong way to judge power. Peak numbers with nothing below peak to support it in a 4,000+lb car will be a slug to cruise in.

ctsvflorida
03-01-07, 07:03 AM
The cam size required to get you 400 rwhp and 400 rwt w/ stock heads is going to be BIG. Looking at peak numbers is the wrong way to judge power. Peak numbers with nothing below peak to support it in a 4,000+lb car will be a slug to cruise in.

With what I have done already it will still require a big cam? I am trying to come up with a cam to produce good numbers all the way through but don't know if that is possible. Let me know what you think!

TXSilverV
03-01-07, 08:20 AM
I have heads/Cam/Intake/Headers and I'm 427Rwhp/395RWTQ. Now I'm not sure what I will gain but I will be putting a maggie on next weekend. I guess we will see how it will respond to my heads and cam. I hope it's not a waste of money. I was hoping to get 115-130 out of it. Has anyone one here done this yet?

ryneV
03-01-07, 08:26 AM
With what I have done already it will still require a big cam? I am trying to come up with a cam to produce good numbers all the way through but don't know if that is possible. Let me know what you think!

It goes back to balance with a cam. Low end or top end, can't really have both. On a 346 ci engine, the 224/228 is an ideal cam size. With the correct components, these cams have made over 460+ rwhp with baby idles if that's what you want. Or by playing with the LSA, rougher idles. You may be able to hit a peak number going cam only, but that's all it will be is a number in a VERY narrow rpm band. Like maybe 5,500rpm and up, the rest will be dog city.

HushH
03-01-07, 09:34 AM
I have heads/Cam/Intake/Headers and I'm 427Rwhp/395RWTQ. Now I'm not sure what I will gain but I will be putting a maggie on next weekend. I guess we will see how it will respond to my heads and cam. I hope it's not a waste of money. I was hoping to get 115-130 out of it. Has anyone one here done this yet?

Really depends on your cam. Some are much better suited for blowers than others.

ctsvflorida
03-01-07, 09:54 AM
Really depends on your cam. Some are much better suited for blowers than others.

That's for sure!

TX: You're really going for some power! Atta boy!

Can't wait to hear your numbers!