: Another B&B gasket demise thread



urbanski
06-18-05, 02:36 PM
so thanks to HDMLNIUM i checked the gaskets between my cats and lead pipes....attached is the "gasket" which is really just black dust in the rough shape of an oval now :rolleyes:
Pic is driver side, pass side is cracked and split, no holes at the moment.

So I "patched" them with copper gasket and bolted it all back....

so then I stripped a resonator clamp and NOBODY in town had a band-style clamp like this...so I bought 2 really super-duty U-style clamps.

so then, while taking off the resonator, i noticed the "gaskets" in the rear between the res and muffler pipes weren't even there anymore, not even all the metal mesh was there....it literally was DUST :rolleyes: again

Scraped all the schmutz off, going to use copper again....no "gasket" at all, just a copper bead. Hope it doesn't leak.

Billy/Dennis....you need to get us REAL gaskets...I'm calling you Monday for clamps and gaskets!! :mad: (and an x-pipe which I want for a "song" due to our troubles)

BowenCT
06-18-05, 02:43 PM
Well...........B&B gaskets disintegrating.............Corsa systems disassembling themselves in heavy rain............glad I still have my stocker on! Hopefully Magnaflow is taking there sweet time to iron out any potential glitches. Need something soon though, the stock purr just ain't cutting it...........

bryce3
06-18-05, 02:50 PM
Urbanski, how many miles have you had the B&B's on for? I just wan't to get an idea when I should be taking a look at mine again.
-Sean

urbanski
06-18-05, 02:58 PM
Urbanski, how many miles have you had the B&B's on for? I just wan't to get an idea when I should be taking a look at mine again.
-Sean
maybe 1K miles with the headers....(new gaskets came with headers)....so they ate themselves in maybe 6 weeks.
the rear muffler area gaskets are way older, like 8 months maybe
who knows when they died...or how long that rear area was leaking.

at least my cats didn't melt LOL

2004ctsv
06-18-05, 02:59 PM
Well...........B&B gaskets disintegrating.............Corsa systems disassembling themselves in heavy rain............glad I still have my stocker on! Hopefully Magnaflow is taking there sweet time to iron out any potential glitches. Need something soon though, the stock purr just ain't cutting it...........

My Corsa system installed properly with a re-torque after a few heat cycles has been trouble-free and sounds as good as ever.

Tony

VELOSE
06-18-05, 03:01 PM
I'm glad I'm getting Borla but that doesn't mean I'm in the clear either.;)

GNSCOTT
06-18-05, 04:14 PM
There are no good gaskets. You may have the best there is right there. Like I said in the other post, I have blown apart solid copper gaskets. THe only thing I have never had a problem with is copper RTV.

urbanski
06-18-05, 04:15 PM
it's not copper "RTV" i used, the label says it's copper gasket and good for 700F
its the highest temp stuff I could find.

wildwhl
06-18-05, 05:18 PM
I think the gaskets they are sending are fine...and there likely isn't anything better unless you can find the dead soft aluminum kind. I'm working on it, though.

I used Walker Performance 3" stainless steel clamps:

http://store.summitracing.com/default.asp?Ntt=exhaust+clamp&x=33&y=11&Ntk=KeywordSearch&DDS=1&searchinresults=false&N=0&target=egnsearch.asp

Last week and they are tons better, no leaks!


Here is a 3" 2 bolt gasket I found online:

http://www.roadraceengineering.com/parts/tweekerparts/gasket3inch-2bolt.jpg

urbanski
06-18-05, 05:20 PM
I think the gaskets they are sending are fine...and there likely isn't anything better unless you can find the dead soft aluminum kind. I'm working on it, though.

I used Walker Performance 3" stainless steel clamps:

http://store.summitracing.com/default.asp?Ntt=exhaust+clamp&x=33&y=11&Ntk=KeywordSearch&DDS=1&searchinresults=false&N=0&target=egnsearch.asp

Last week and they are tons better, no leaks!
the butt-joint (LOL butt) or muffler clamps?
i have 2 muffler clamp ones now

willsctsv
06-18-05, 05:28 PM
I disintigrated gaskets with my B&B also. Use the gasket with Copper RTV on both sides. No problems and my exhaust is heating up enough to melt down 2 cats while racing.

wildwhl
06-18-05, 05:37 PM
I used the butt joint dynomax/walker clamp

I'll try laser cutting some materials this evening.

lasstss
06-18-05, 06:22 PM
Graphite Sheet Gasket With Stainless Steel Insert (/ctlg/loadpage.asp?pagenum=3220&descid=15155&term=Graphite+Sheet+Gasket+With+Stainless+Steel+In sert)

www.mcmaster.com

urbanski
06-18-05, 06:23 PM
Graphite Sheet Gasket With Stainless Steel Insert (/ctlg/loadpage.asp?pagenum=3220&descid=15155&term=Graphite+Sheet+Gasket+With+Stainless+Steel+In sert)

www.mcmaster.com
thanks dude :)

urbanski
06-18-05, 08:34 PM
well it's together and no leaks, after a ton of copper RTV

anyhow, now (other than sticking my hands up there) how do I know if the header gaskets (up against the block) are dead?
considering the ones downstream died, won't they too?
ugh

willsctsv
06-18-05, 09:02 PM
Urb, that would be a very audible leak and some loss of power!

wildwhl
06-18-05, 09:03 PM
The gaskets should only fail if there is a warp or mismatch between parts. It is unlikely, though possible, that the header gaskets at the heads would fail.

How do you know? Listen...it is usually very obvious from under the hood. Tick, tick, tick, tick....kind of noise.

urbanski
06-18-05, 09:10 PM
ok guys, thanks.


the flanges where the gaskets failed were not flat...in fact were "bowed" only touching well at the bolts...the middle of the "circle" (right where the gaskets blew out) didn't meet flush, making that the likely failure reason. I used a bead of copper all around and then some like "caulk" on those gapped areas.

Billy...make the darn flanges flat eh? lol

StealthV
06-18-05, 09:48 PM
The flanges were tweaked pre-headers by bolting up to the stock cats. :cop:

Checked the flanges on the cat-back today - nice a flat, just like the day they were ground. :getaway:

ssmith100
06-18-05, 11:00 PM
Heat and a hammer will take care of those bent flanges.:yup:

Urb,
Those gaskets at the heads should be fine. You may just want to check the bolts every once in a while.

Shane

willsctsv
06-18-05, 11:29 PM
My bolts stayed tight at the manifold. Would sometimes loosen at the flanges.
I had the same problem with flanges that needed a little tapping with a mini sledge. No heat needed. I tapped the X pipe flanges, and the header flanges.

JohnnyU
06-19-05, 02:56 AM
I have a B&B w/Resonator exhaust on order, and after reading this set of posts am concerned about a couple things. I bought them to get a nicer sound out of the V, but don't want to increase my maintenance any more than the stock pipes would need. I don't crawl around under my car very much any more, and have a couple questions for the experts on these things.

1) I didn't get the headers - just the exhaust / resonator. If I don't take the car to the track, but just rip it on the street on occasion, do I need to worry about the seals blowing out?

2) How would I know if the seals do blow out?

3) Why don't the seals on the stock exhaust blow, are they better made or is there a difference in their construction and/or does the size of the 2.5" vs 3" pipe make the seals more likely to disintegrate?

4) Is this "normal" wear & tear on an upgraded exhaust?

Thanks for your input!

HDMLNIUM
06-19-05, 03:11 AM
JohnnyU,

Well on the stock exhaust manifolds they have multi layer metal gaskets.
After the cats there is a ball socket type seal, and a great seal. The rest of the factory exhaust is all welded together, no place for any leaks..
The B&B is a great exhaust so don't let the gasket thing bother you to much. I am going to be putting back on the exhaust later in the morning, using the copper RTV to help seal everything up. I need to take it back apart as soon as my X-pipe section shows up so maybe I will have some better gaskets by then.

Bill
http://photobucket.com/albums/v466/HDMLNIUM/th_front-1.jpghttp://photobucket.com/albums/v466/HDMLNIUM/th_engine-yeah.jpghttp://photobucket.com/albums/v466/HDMLNIUM/th_rear-1.jpg
05 CTS-V--- Light Platinum
3M Clear Bra and Tinted windows, LS6 Emblem, Stealth-V z06 fuel rail covers, Lasstss Billet interior pieces
B&B Headers-high flow cats-and 3" resonator exhaust, Lingenfelter CAI, UUC shifter, BMR kit
Online Photos http://photobucket.com/albums/v466/HDMLNIUM/

urbanski
06-19-05, 09:05 AM
I have a B&B w/Resonator exhaust on order, and after reading this set of posts am concerned about a couple things.
i think the improvement in sound is worth the added wrenching. I used to be scared working on the thing, but yesterday I had the whole exhaust off!! It was fun.
Tell the shop that installs it to use the supplied gaskets and supplement the seals with Copper RTV gasket. Then make sure as part of their installation warranty they'll check for leaks in a few weeks. No hassles on your part.

urbanski
06-19-05, 09:06 AM
X-pipe section shows up so maybe I will have some better gaskets by then.]
which ones you getting?

wildwhl
06-19-05, 12:09 PM
I never had any leaks with the B&B bolted up to the stock cats - with two exceptions.

1) The rear sections - where the resonator bolts to the muffler sections - I'd recommend using copper rtv there, just to be safe.

2) Once I did not get the front section on the passenger side tight. Sounded like hell, and my wife made sure to mention it multiple times :nono:

The issue I'm having, I believe, is the fact that since the B&B was on with the factory cats, and off, and on, and off, etc (about a dozen times) the process of torquing down those flanges has tweaked them.

The flanges on the headers are of course darn near perfectly flat. If I wasn't so lazy, I would pull the front pipes out, take a quick grind on them and file them flat again. Problem solved.

I'm lazy, so I'll use copper rtv for now until I can make or find something better, or, until I spring for the X-pipe.

Worry not, you shouldn't have any leaks there on that B&B or additional maintenance.

urbanski
06-20-05, 06:39 PM
wild, you getting me some gaskets?? :)


I called and talked to Dennis...he said just use copper RTV and no gasket.
This seem OK to you guys?

I forgot to tell him the resonator clamps stripped :rolleyes:

I invited him/Billy to check the threads here, since I'm not the only victim.

lasstss
06-20-05, 06:45 PM
wild, you getting me some gaskets?? :)


I called and talked to Dennis...he said just use copper RTV and no gasket.
This seem OK to you guys?

I forgot to tell him the resonator clamps stripped :rolleyes:

I invited him/Billy to check the threads here, since I'm not the only victim.

That rating of 700F is for (intermittant use). Normal on silicone is 500F.

I still recommend the thick screened graphite. FWIW..

StealthV
06-20-05, 07:16 PM
wild, you getting me some gaskets?? :)


I called and talked to Dennis...he said just use copper RTV and no gasket.
This seem OK to you guys?

I forgot to tell him the resonator clamps stripped :rolleyes:

I invited him/Billy to check the threads here, since I'm not the only victim.

No gaskets and just ultra-copper SillyCone on my four joints. No blow outs yet. Urby, a new set of clamps shipped with your baby mufflers - I think someone at your shop has them in their toolbox or else Shane has them....

urbanski
06-20-05, 07:20 PM
No gaskets and just ultra-copper SillyCone on my four joints. No blow outs yet. Urby, a new set of clamps shipped with your baby mufflers - I think someone at your shop has them in their toolbox or else Shane has them....
shane has em still :) at least you're running pure copper, i'm happy with that.

lasstss, the gaskets that died had an internal wire mesh...wonder if the mcmaster stuff is the same, meaning it would die too.

wild, if you buy some mcmaster gasket material and laser cut it, count me in :)

ssmith100
06-20-05, 07:33 PM
Urb,

They didn't send new clamps with the headers. I thought it was kinda strange too since you would need two sets with the optional resonators. Didn't really think about it much since I wasn't going to use the resonators. I'll call Dennis tommorow and see if I was supposed to get them. I need a new set of gaskets for the rear anyway since I'm going to pull my cones.

Shane

urbanski
06-20-05, 07:55 PM
Urb,

They didn't send new clamps with the headers. I thought it was kinda strange too since you would need two sets with the optional resonators. Didn't really think about it much since I wasn't going to use the resonators. I'll call Dennis tommorow and see if I was supposed to get them. I need a new set of gaskets for the rear anyway since I'm going to pull my cones.

Shane
hmmmmm
he never even offered me new gaskets, lol

hey....you de-coning the resonator? tell me how/if that works out. I thought it would be impossible!! :)

HDMLNIUM
06-20-05, 08:03 PM
hmmmmm
he never even offered me new gaskets, lol

hey....you de-coning the resonator? tell me how/if that works out. I thought it would be impossible!! :)

urbanski,
He most likely has the early ones, they slipped in the end... Bolt in, not welded like ours. I wish mine wasn't welded in so I could have pulled them out. It might have made enough difference so I wouldn't have had to order the x-pipe.
On a side note... I ordered the x-pipe through Todd Prodyno and asked if I could get an early version with the removable cones if possible.. I hope they come that way..
Bill
http://photobucket.com/albums/v466/HDMLNIUM/th_front-1.jpghttp://photobucket.com/albums/v466/HDMLNIUM/th_engine-yeah.jpghttp://photobucket.com/albums/v466/HDMLNIUM/th_rear-1.jpg
05 CTS-V--- Light Platinum
3M Clear Bra and Tinted windows, LS6 Emblem, Stealth-V z06 fuel rail covers, Lasstss Billet interior pieces
Westers, B&B Headers-high flow cats-and 3" resonator exhaust, Lingenfelter CAI, UUC shifter, Full BMR
Online Photos http://photobucket.com/albums/v466/HDMLNIUM/

ssmith100
06-20-05, 10:05 PM
Urb,

Bill's right. I have one of the early resonator versions that doesn't have the cones. My cones were installed at the rear connections. Going to remove them now since the exhaust has toned down.

Shane

lasstss
06-21-05, 01:11 AM
shane has em still :) at least you're running pure copper, i'm happy with that.

lasstss, the gaskets that died had an internal wire mesh...wonder if the mcmaster stuff is the same, meaning it would die too.

wild, if you buy some mcmaster gasket material and laser cut it, count me in :)

The issue is thicknes, you need some crush. The peices sent by B&B are too thin, Where there is no compression, they will blow out. The flanges squeeze at the bolts, leave a gap in the middle. The stuff that I used is almost 1/8" thick. The silicone will probably hold due to surface tension between the 2 surfaces. Might be an issue if you do any racing though.