I'm attempting to repair an 86 deville and, it seems, that there are sleeves that are sitting too low in the block to seal on the gaskets (2nd set now)....
As the book says that they are a 'selected fit' how is someone supposed to order replacements? Is it possible to get them at a specific 'height' or simply keep buying them until I get some that work?

According to the book (LOVE that 'bible'...) the specs are +.01 to .08....

And while I'm at it.... Can I get the gauge at a place other than Cadillac?

I would REALLY appreciate an assist with this. I need to get it back on the road as soon as possible.....

How are you measuring them relative to the deck surface??

Even in the re-man center for the 4.1/4.5/4.9 engines the cylinder lines are pretty much used as it and there is very little to no need to "fit" them for height or juggle them around. Generally they will all work in most any position in the engine. Technically they need to be the exact height as specified but the dimensional accuracy on the liners was pretty good for the height they install to so they all seem to work in most any position.

Thank you for the reply!


Right now I don't have the dial gauge Caddy specifies, so I was simply using a straightedge. Although they seem 'flush' with the block surface they don't stick up even a smidgen, especially when the specs are supposed to be figured without the o-ring in place yet...

I have been reluctant to remove them until I have half a clue whether simply replacing the o-rings would be enough to return them to a sealing situation, and don't want to waste a new set of o-rings (along with ANOTHER pair of head gaskets) if I'm going to end up replacing the sleeves...

The problem seems only to exist on the 'odd' (forward) side and specifically 1,3 and 5 cylinders. 7 seems to seal although it too seems only to be flush with the block, but have gotten exhaust gasses out of the radiator on the other 3 unless I pull the plugs on those... Figured that I should, at the very least, resolve the problem on the entire side...

Okay, I guess I'm on my own with this one.

If I come up with a workable answer I'll consider posting it. Thanks to bbob for the initial response.

If the cylinder liners are flush with the deck they are fine. Just put it back together. The head gasket is fairly compliant and there really isn't much of an issue with the liner height from a practical standpoint. Checking with a straight edge is fine. If they are within 0.010 of the deck I wouldn't worry at all.

The other option is to pull the block out , remove the cylinder liners and have the block deck milled slightly to get the deck slightly lower than the liner height but I have never seen a case where that was really necessary.

The O-ring around the bottom shouldn't really affect the liner height when the engine is assembled. It compresses in the recess at the base of the cylinder and doesn't affect sealing at the head gasket.

Then I suppose I'm forced to remove the block.

The hi-dollar gaskets from Cadillac did NOT seal
(but were much better looking than the Fel-Pro pieces, with nearly TWICE the sleeve-sealing area and, it seemed, slightly thicker there too...)
and if the sleeves are not available in various heights I will have to get 'creative'.

I have something in mind and will answer back if it works
Or if it blows up
Or I end up in a mental institution somewhere...

:bighead:

Just one more thing...
As I said, I haven't removed the sleeves yet and have NO IDEA what they look like on the lower end since I've never seen EVEN ONE picture of a sleeve not in the block. Is it possible that the 'sealing surface' has rusted away or otherwise deformed to cause the lowered height?

Okay, two things.....
If I replace the sleeves in question, do I need to go to the trouble to replace the rings for the offending sleeves? 'Intelligence' says yes, but....

And,
Am I correct in my belief that is it possible to pull the pan off without pulling the engine? It appears so to me (and implies so in the manual), but someone may know some 'gotcha' that I haven't seen yet...

There is a pilot diameter on the bottom of the cylinder liner that pilots as a slip fit into the holes in the bottom of the engine case...block. The cylinder liner has a flange on the bottom that rests against the bottom of the block surface to support it. The height of the land in the block and the location of the machined flat on the bottom of the land determines the installed height. The flange runs the entire circumference of the liner and support the liner against the block for the full 360 degrees of the OD of the liner at the bottom. There is a relief or slight groove machined into the liner at the junction of the flange to the cylindrical part of the liner where the o-ring rests.

I have honestly never heard of a situation like you describe where the head gasket will not account for the slight difference in height between the liner and the block deck rail....

I assume this engine has quite a few miles on it..?? It is odd that it sealed for all those miles and then now the liners appear low and the new gaskets will not seal at assembly...??? The liners did not shrink in length nor did the block grow to cause the liners to be low.

It is unlikely that the liner has receded into the block due to corrosion. Possible I suppose...but highly unlikely. Never seen or heard of it.

You can get the oil pan off with the engine in the car. You might have to turn the crank to get sufficient clearance between the oil pan and the counterweights on the crank as you wiggle it out but it will come out.

I can't honestly tell you what the mileage is, since it too suffers from 'speedo-no-lightup-itis'.... but one problem at a time, please.

I'm guessing around 150k, with a towing package and probably overheated too....

Any chance that replacing the head would resolve this? I cannot discern any problem with it either, but unless the sleeves are in fact too low, its either the sleeves or the head... It's not exactly rocket science....

A head is not the cheap answer, but I passed that about one set of head gaskets ago...

In general, how much 'extra' exists on the block side of the sleeve flange?
Possibly enough for a steel 'shim' and some nice, hi-temp RTV?

Thu AM I will be pulling the heifer apart AGAIN but this time I intend to actually pull the sleeves out.

Another thought....

If I am forced into the block-shaving procedure, should I consider replacing the 4.1 sleeves with 4.5 and the other required parts?
Would it be worth my time/money to go that route? I seem to remember another thread that mentioned doing something similar....

Have put off the disassembly until I return from vacation (which is where I should do the work...)

Once I get it apart again I'll update about the sleeve condition, etc.

Back from vacation but haven't done anything to the car except drain the radiator....
Oh. Washed it too.... That takes some doing since I have to push it around...
Will be starting the disassembly on days off (Wed/Thu).

I have finally started pulling the engine apart again and have a related question...

WHERE IN H*** CAN THE 4.1 SLEEVES BE PURCHASED?
Am I stuck in scrounging up old/used ones?
Checker/Kragen supposedly has them, but the only number that is good is
'backordered'
and nobody can say if they will ever get any more.

I have heard nothing constructive from the 'experts' since I was told to shave the block.

Kill this thread. I will not be accessing this forum again...

Sorry but the person who was helping you has not been around.

http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=47678&page=1&pp=20

Best thing to do is find a running 4.1 or 4.5 and swap it in there IMHO.

:D Okay. Have learned a couple of important things yesterday.

1) do not attempt to remove the intake manifold if you don't remove
ALL of the bolts first.....:banghead:

and

2) the cylinder sleeves WILL COME OUT from the top WITHOUT PULLING the piston out first. (That doesn't mean they can go back IN tho...)

ALL of the 'odd-bank' sleeves are approx 6" tall, and about 1/2 of that is 'lower end'.... the o-ring (skinny SOBs that they are) have a recess that they sit in.

As far as I can tell, the #1 'hole' is SLIGHLY LOWER than the #7 'hole', tho my method of measure was imprecise at best.....

I also learned that the #7 piston had a broken top ring. Not nice! Lucky I'm already getting new rings all-around. (haven't pulled the 'even' side yet...)

May have found a source for new sleeves too. Once I know for sure I'll post the address for others to have access to.

For those (like me) who have never seen one of these things 'out of the box' I'm posting a couple pics. One shows the #1 sleeve with a broken spot (no clue how it got there...) and one that shows where the o-ring groove is...

Hope it will help someone else...

Still working on the height issue, but now that I know what I'm dealing with, it will become LOTS easier. :rolleyes:

Okay, now that the pistons are out (in order to reassemble soon), I have found this...

Only hope it is part of the problem and not something 'sudden'...

Okay. :suspect:

Almost ready to reassemble. Waiting for some new o-rings from a company that has 'almost-Caddy' parts, but will take 400 degrees. I'll feel MUCH better knowing that the o-rings won't melt before the block does.:cloud9:

Time to buy more hi-dollar head gaskets from Cadillac. Joy.:ill:

With any luck, next week I'll actually get to drive the 'avatar' I've been looking at since I started this affair!

The sleeves can be turned to set the height. This is outlined in the manual. A good straight edge and a set of feeler gauges will do the trick.

Then make reference marks on all the sleeves, remove them, install the o rings and piston/rod assemblies to the sleeve then you can drop in the sleeves with the correct heights set.

Mike

Yes, the manual DOES mention rotating the sleeves. It does NOT explain how a part with a consistently even mating surface is supposed to 'self-adjust' the height simply by rotating the sleeve.:bomb:

However,

YOUR INPUT IS ABSOLUTELY and DEFINATELY APPRECIATED!:bouncy:
I am beginning to think that all the 'gurus' here are afraid of risking
'foot-in-mouth disease'....:histeric:

While I have not done much work with this particular engine before, I AM a-little-too-familiar with tempramental machines and have this terrible stubborn streak-- until I have spent a fortune on this thing, I will not give up. One might say I don't mind paying for 'learning experiences'...

So, I have hi-temp o-rings on order, and everything else is ready to go back together. Only thing I have NOT done so far is to have the head checked. Will do that soon, to be thorough, AND because it is the ONLY other logical location for a problem to exist. :yup:

I have heard many say that these heads are practically indestructable, and then turn around and am told that they warp 'on a whim'....
But, as I said before, if the sleeves are sitting within the prescribed height, and the torque specs are followed, there can be little else to prevent the proper sealing of the sleeve to the head.

The only reason I haven't pulled the engine completely as suggested is that I bought this car for practially nothing because it was reported to have bad head gaskets and that they can be done without removing the engine. I simply do not have the location/tools to do what could be a relatively simple engine-swap ( and would have done it on my 77 Biarritz instead, if things were different....):crying:

Any ideas where that dial-gauge Caddy suggests to measure the sleeve height can be found?
:suspense:

There is a slight concentric on the base of the sleeve so that its installed height can be adjusted. This is very critical to the head gaskets sealing.

I have always used a good straight edge and feeler gauges. Lay the edge on the sleeve and measure the clearance between the edge and the block surface. Even the dealer where I worked did not have the tool as illustrated in the manual. I'd shudder to think what Kent-Moore would want for this thing too.

You can also check the head surface with the straight edge. I think the spec is somewhere around 0.008" warpage before the head needs to be resurfaced, but check the manual for the proper specs. I have never had any issues with any of these heads. They are pretty durable, but just to be safe, it is always wise to at least check for warpage.

These are not the easiest engine to pull anyway, so you are better off doing the gaskets and liners with the engine in the car. When we were replacing liners on the early 4.9's I never pulled an engine. They were always done with the engine in the car.

Mike

Thanks! I'll have to check the new sleeves to see if this is true on them as well. There isn't much of a change I suspect, otherwise I woulda noticed it, but I have been known to miss the trees for the forest on occasion...:cookoo:

As I said in the earlier posts, they all had appeared to be flush, but I DO need to get the appropriate feeler gauges. MUCH prefer to do things right....

I do remember something said in the manual about rotating the sleeves but it doesn't bother to say anything about actual adjustability.... and neither did the 'no-longer-here-expert-that-knows-everything-about-these-engines' guy....

Oh well....:D
Looking forward to getting my ride together (again, and again). A friend of mine is looking seriously at an 85 Eldo, so I fear I already know too much...

Now to get the speedo to light up... but that's another thread.

The production o-rings have plenty of temperature capability to seal the liners... Why do you think you need special hi-temp ones.?? Just curious as there are millions of those engine running around sealing fine with the production o-rings..hard to believe yours is overheating the o-rings.

There is no "concentric" machined into the land nor the block where the liner sits. Nonsense. The only effect turning them might have is to SLIGHLY change the height of the liner simply because of any TINY bit of runnout in the mating surface that is within the tolerance for maching the land. You are talking tiny tiny changes by turning them. Like maybe .0001 at the most. Not something that was done purposefully to set the liner height.

Have you actually installed the liners in the originaly holes wih the o-rings removed and laid a straight edge across the block deck and measured the "depth" of the liners with a set of simple feeler gauges? You can set the straight edge on a piece of .010 shim stock (any auto parts store) at each end to gain a little clearance to work with and then measure each liner hight with the feeler gauges. You cannot measure the liner height without thoroughly cleaning up the block and liners so that the liners seat completely into the block.

I suspect your sealing problems previously may be due to incorrect repair procedures... If the heads are removed and the mechnic was not carefull and possibly dislodged a liner there is the (good) chance that some debris in the coolant jacket lodged under the liner seating land at the bottom and cause the liner to install high and unseat the head gasket seal. That is a common occurance where the liners are dislodged during repair...trapping debris under the land at the bottom. Since any of the coolant sealant material that has settled to the bottom of the water jackets is lying immediately beside the land of the liner that sits on the bottom of the block any upward movement of the liner will usually pull some sediment into the gap and then that will cause a mismatch in liner height that will cause the new head gasket to not seal.

I think the service manual procedure of "rotating" the liners in the block is being misunderstood. The idea is that if the assembler has a stray set of liners and an unknown block then the liner height needs to be checked. If some of the liners measure somewhat high or low then the liners can be swapped between different holes or cylinders to achieve the best possible fit. There is no purposeful height adjustment machined into the cylinder liner seating land nor in the block.

Apparently you have not read the entire thread.:thehand:

Sealing at the base is not the issue.

I choose to replace the o-rings with a higher temp capacity to ensure that, should the block overheat, they will not be damaged by temperatures that exceed the OEM's UNDOCUMENTED rating. If you have documentation about their resiliency, I (and no doubt, others) would appreciate a copy.

The depth of the liners was initially checked without removing them. Once they were out they were checked again.

Dislodging the liners did NOT happen... and it took 2 screwdrivers and some persuasion to remove them WHEN I did take them out.

Exactly how high can the liner go before it impacts the head itself? And, isn't it supposed to?
It was my understanding that the sealing surface of the head gasket was supposed to seal against BOTH the head AND the liner....:confused:

I'm sorry, but I read the limited manual entry on the cylinders MULTIPLE times. I will copy the section and put it in another post.....

Allow me to summarize....
The engine was originally blowing white smoke. The head gaskets were replaced (CAREFULLY, I might add) and the 1st, 3rd and 5th cylinders began to leak gasses into the radiator, as evidenced by a 'belching' and smell of exhaust fumes from the filled radiator when the engine was spun and the spark plugs were in the head. (adequate diagnosis proved the previous statement....)
Replacing the gaskets with CADILLAC parts (an expensive proposition I'll be doing again) provided no change, even though the sleeves were verified to be flush with the surface of the block. At this point the o-rings had not been replaced. Upon inspection of new o-rings and reinterpretation of the manual's assembly procedure, it was determined that they have no part in assisting with the sealing of the head/sleeve joint and only affect the sealing of the lower sleeve/block joint. As this is the case, and often overheated engines achieve 220+ degree temps, the hi-temp o-rings have been chosen to replace the non-disclosed-spec OEM items.

If following the manual to the letter is incorrect procedure, then you may be correct....I am not a dolt.:D

If you are the same person who posted those pictures of the sleeves and pistons a while back then it is obvious that your engine was cooked at one time. Someone may have lost the coolant when a hose or water pump went bad and kept driving until it was well done. No O rings are going to stand up to that kind of abuse. Chevelle is right. If you pop off the heads and the sleeves stick to the gasket they can become unseated and debris will allow coolant to leak. Maybe your original O rings were leaking after being cooked. This was the way that many of these engines went. They cannot survive any kind of overheating.
The big question marks that loom large over your repair is how much of a pounding did the rest of the engine get? Will you ever see correct oil pressure after this repair is finished? It will be interesting to see what the answer is after a period of time.
Now, turn off that computer and get it put back together already. :thepan:

Actually, yes, I did read the entire thread. There is no doubt that the engine you have has a serious problem...but I am not sure that the liner height has anything to do with it. You seem to be going to great lengths to re-engineer things without being sure what is causing the problem exactly. Until you can determine exactly what is wrong the problem is not likely to be fixed.

Since the production engine could run as hot as 265 F without any damage whatsoever the OEM o-rings would be good for at least that temperature...probably much higher. A 50/50 coolant/water mix in a 15 PSI system can go to 265 before it boils so the engine can stand that temperature easily with no damage.

If the o-rings were melted or damaged then it indicates that the engine was run dry of coolant and subjected to much hotter temperatures.

Have you pressure checked the heads carefully for any cracks in the combustion chambers? If the engine was run without coolant it is possible to crack the heads...especially if someone ran it dry and then poured in coolant before letting it cool. Use some plate metal plates to seal the coolant passages of the heads and pressurize the coolant cavity...use soapy water in the combustion chambers to see if any air pressure is leaking thru a possible crack. A crack in the combustion chamber wall would have the effect you describe and is entirely possible if the engine was run dry.

The liner height must be checked with the liner and block cleaned thoroughly and the oring REMOVED. The o-ring actually causes the liner to sit slightly proud of its normal height. The o-ring is compressed as the liner is pressed downward by the cylinder head when the head bolts are torqued. If you substitute o-rings make positively sure that they are the same diameter cross section as a thicker o-ring will be overcompressed and will split causing a coolant leak path into the crank case.

Coolant leak into the block was not the issue, but yes, the head IS being sent for checking (once I can find someplace around here that can do so), and once the o-rings arrive reassembly will begin.

The 'probably much higher' statement is exactly why I'm going to the trouble to 'reengineer' things.....

Stand by for further updates!http://cadillacforums.com/forums/images/smilies/duck.gif

What was the condition of the o-rings that you took out just out of curiosity??


If coolant was not getting into the crankcase then the o-rings weren't leaking anyway so replacing them with something "better" is a moot point but realize that the OEM o-rings are special parts that were sized and developed for that application and work well there so simply replacing them with other parts of another material may cause more problems than you realize.

Cylinder liner height is rarely if ever and issue and only comes up when a new engine is being assembled out of loose misc parts. If the original cylinder liners from the engine are being reused then the height is not what is causing the problem.


BTW....if the engine runs dry and gets well above 265 then the o-rings are the least of your worries....LOL....so "well above that" is perfectly fine and does not need re-engineering.

:suspense: I did not attempt to keep or otherwise document the condition of the 'dead' o-rings.
Suffice it to say that, in general, they were all 'flat' looking and the odd-bank (the trouble-spot) did look worse than the even-bank.:nono:

Once again, I emphasize that the exhaust gas into the radiator is the problem I've been trying to remedy, and that should be caused by only 2 possibilities.....
1- that the sleeves are not 'sitting high enough' to seal the head gasket,
2- that the head itself is defective.

I'm willing to consider #2 as far as the #1 cylinder is concerned but the #3 and #5 gas leak problem did not arise until the gasket was replaced. NO OVERHEAT CONDITION EXISTED TO CAUSE A DEFECT AT THAT POINT.

I am willing to accept the possibility that, when the head was originally removed, the sleeves SUNK into the block due to bad o-rings, but...
these sleeves are SUPPOSED to be 0-+.008 HIGH WITHOUT AN O-RING THERE.:wtf:

I can feel comfortable knowing that the o-rings I purchase can withstand 400 degrees. I am certain full-scale lockup and likely melt-down of other parts will ocurr well before then.:cloud9:

:suspense: I


I am willing to accept the possibility that, when the head was originally removed, the sleeves SUNK into the block due to bad o-rings, but...
these sleeves are SUPPOSED to be 0-+.008 HIGH WITHOUT AN O-RING THERE..:cloud9:



The o-rings have nothing to do with the cylinder liner height. That is why the measurements for liner height are quoted without the o-rings in place. The o-ring will hold the liner slightly high if it is not compressed so measuring liner height with the o-rings in place is useless. The liner compresses the o-ring into the chamfer in the liner seating land and the land against the block sets the liner height. Liners would not "sink" due to a bad o-ring as you suggest. That is why your concern over the o-rings is unnecessary.

Possibly what happened is that the head gasket failed originally due to a severe overheating condition and then when the gasket was replaced the first time one (or more) of the liners on that bank was unseated slightly trapping debris/sediment under the seating land causing the liner height to be mismatched to the others liners causing an immediate head gasket failure after the "repair". This is the most likely scenario as the liner height does no change over time and the liners sealed for many years/miles originally until it was overheated.

Clean the block up thoroughly, install the liners WITHOUT the orings and measure the height with a straight edge and feeler gauges. If they are even close to even with the deck they are fine.

I would still definitely want to check the heads carefully for cracks/leaks, though, as they can be damaged in a severe (dry) overheat especially if coolant is poured into the hot, dry engine.

The old crumbled O-ring debris under the sleeve boss trick [Don Adams Voice Off/]

Okay, I will say this one more time.

The liner height was checked BEFORE & AFTER removing the liners. EACH TIME,
the liners were 'flush' with the block surface. The block is confirmed to be flat, therefore the liners cannot be out-of-tolerance to each other.

Post-disassembly I have confirmed that the block-surface-to-block base is consistent over all base areas. Didn't keep the # otherwise I'd provide it, altho it's around 4"....

Right now I'm ready to drop the o-ring issue and focus on the probably-bad head.

With my new hi-temp o-rings...:D

Really, the issue of the o-rings is a non issue. What is being discussed here is the orientation of the cylinder liners in relation to deck height. The spec is 0.00mm to 0.08mm. Simple. That is stated in the manual.

It also states that if an engine has been overheated, the cylinder height must be checked and re-established. It also states that rotation of the liner is possible to get this spec.

As I stated in an earlier post, this height orientation is critical. A liner that falls below the deck height, or is too far above can lead to sealing problems.

It is also wise to have cylinder heads checked for cracks and make sure they are straight after an overheating, in any engine.

Mike

BTW, what happened to "the expert that doesn't post here any more" ? He has been a great help to me.

Mike

Your guess is better than mine -- you've been on here longer......

The o-rings have arrived, so SUN-MON I hope to begin reassembly, tho I still haven't found a local place to take the head.
Might just replace it rather than spend the $ to have it checked and find I need a new one anyway....

Any decent automotive machine shop can do this for you. Just strip the heads (make sure you mark the valves so that they go back in the same spot they came out) and send them out. Or you can send them out complete and have the shop do this for you. It will cost more, though.

Check with the local automotive shops or parts jobbers to find out who does their work. When they come back, replace the valve seals ans reassemble them. You will be good to go. Likely much less than replacing them.
Mike

I'm embarassed to admit I haven't TOUCHED the POS yet!
I have another 'ride' and this one has become a 2nd priority, but with 'winter' coming, (and rain that goes with it) I am starting again to complete this 'daunting task'....
Haven't found a place to check the heads, but Kragen/Checker supposedly has them, and I intend to replace BOTH SIDES rather than spend the $$ to have someone tell me that the odd-side needs replacement anyway....
So tomorrow, it begins again!:stirpot:
Thoughts and prayers (if you are so inclined) will be appreciated!:thumbsup:
And BTW, the stereo sounds GREAT! Have to fix the tape drive tho...:D

Well, 6 out of 8 cylinders are in!:bouncy:
Two had to wait, cause...
The rod bearings I bought in Aug NOW show me that 2 sets were the WRONG NUMBER!:bomb:
And, of course, they won't replace them cause it's been too long and I didn't keep the receipt....:crying:

Sun/Mon I hope to get it to the 'put-the-heads-on' stage...
Amazingly enough, it has been a relatively 'painless' affair.....
:lies:

Well at least it is going together slowly. My engine is still sitting all torn down with no progress. Funding here is the problem with me.

Mike

BOY do I know what THAT's like!:crying2:
Been nickel-&-diming this for a LONG time now,:mad2:
down to needing the heads,
and pan gasket,
Engine oil,
coolant,
and....
and......
and.........
:yup:

Cleaned the old heads off and almost considered putting the rear head back on to show more progress.
Don't want to do that if I end up replacing the front one.... could end up with a power imbalance from who-knows-what....:suspense:

More coming in a day or two!:stirpot:

This is the final entry (by me) on this thread.
Monday afternoon I popped the threads on the odd-bank.

I have no intention to try to rethread it, as I have never done it before.
Maybe once I replace the engine I may try to do it with the 'remains',
but for now...


Wasn't even close to the required tolerance....
Oh well....

....but I really would like some input here...

As often as I've done a drivetrain/engine swap on the 78 425 Eldo, I feel comfortable enough to try an engine swap on the deville.

Does anyone know any 'gotchas' that I need to hear about before I plunk down the dough for the 'already-located' frankenstein engine?

After over a year (and an 89 Seville), I am getting ready to do the engine swap.:eek:

Once I have the old one out, AND find a 'suitable replacement':rolleyes: I will, with luck, have 2 working caddy-rides!:bouncy:

Will update again during 'vacation'....

I have the engine ready to come out, and finally assembled the engine hoist I bought 8 mo ago to do it...:thumbsup:

Yesterday I bought a chain that is big enough to get bolts thru and hope to get the POS out this 'weekend'....

Thinking HARD on trying to rebuild/repair it, since I don't want 'spare parts' lying around... unless somebody has successfully made a planter from a 4.1 block!:stirpot:

From the previous efforts I'm 1st going to take the suspect odd-bank head to a shop (somewhere!) to have it checked. It MUST be cracked or otherwise defective... and now is as good a time as any!:bouncy:

But while I'm waiting...
:eek: Would a 4.1 Deville starter fit into a 4.5 Seville?:eek:

Just a thought...

Okay. The ole 'trasher' is out now...:)
The only thing I didn't expect is that, on the 86, there is a 'shock absorber' on the pulley-side of the odd bank that, I guess, they replaced later with the 'dog-bone' on the top of the 89 engines.:bigroll:

Other than that, I had so much of the thing torn down that I coulda lifted it out by hand if the hood hadn't been in the way.:rolleyes: That REALLY IS a light block!

Now to find something to put back in it!

I'd LIKE to get a 4.5, but if I can find a good (or reparable) 4.1 I'd to that just as quickly...
:bouncy:

It may actually be on the road (for the FIRST TIME) before the end of summer!:worship:

Okay, so I can't tell odd from even these days!

The 'shock absorber' is on the pulley side of the EVEN bank... back there where the 'netherworld' begins and you hear Rod Serling announce the
Twilight Zone...:bigroll:

Gonna take the time/money/aggravation to:

1) replace the timing chain/gear...
2) replace the water pump, which I don't think is that old...
3) CLEAN the S*** out of the filthy beast...
4) check/replace main bearings...
and
5) promote world peace through preoccupation with engine problems...:rolleyes:

It will be interesting to see of that 'shock' is available at AutoZone, too!

Any opinions?
Should I attempt to replace the cam while I'm at it? I've read that these SOBs 'flat spot' quickly... and I'd like to do it if there is a chance...
What is the easiest way to tell if it is due?

I have decided to try the repair method... except
that I want to do the 'lower front' bolts with studs instead,
and I can't seem to find the 'grade 8' threaded stock suggested by
a previous thread...:crybaby:

Maybe Lowe's or Home De(s)pot would have it...
I remember the numbers... 1/2"x13t grade 8....

As warm as it's been here, fixing it this summer may be a little too 'fried-brained' than originally thought.:rant2:

REALLY want to see how nice it rides tho. Oh yeah. Gotta refill the AC too...
and replace the clutch coil I stole from it for the 89 Seville...:rolleyes:

As the saying goes... more to come!:bouncy: