: Market Saturation at Breaking Point!



Ralph
06-14-05, 01:21 AM
Check out the graph in this report which AutoPacific (a consultant group) put together. Look at the number of nameplates on the market. Do you think people can remember them all? This is why time-tested brands that everyone knows and remembers will be all the more important in the future.

"With so many nameplates presently in the market and more on the way, it is not surprising that launching and establishing new products is more difficult today than at any time since the '50s. In the future the challenge of a successful launch will intensify with more nameplates flooding the market.

Each new product launch will require additional public relations efforts, additional merchandising not to mention more effective and better targeted advertising. Little wonder the marketing arms of major brands are experimenting with unique and alternative messages and media to draw attention to their products. Over the coming years, expenditures for each of these activities will have to grow to keep a nameplate competitive."


http://www.autopacific.com/sub_pr.php?action=view&sub=&section=12&type=58&group=99&id=634

davesdeville
06-14-05, 05:49 AM
This is why I don't always remember Infiniti or Acura... Ask my mom what brands of cars there are, she will say Cadillac,Chevy, Ford, Lincoln, Buick, Dodge, and Chrysler. The only foreign nameplate she even knows off the top of her head would be Ford's Volvo.

Ralph
06-14-05, 06:10 AM
This is why I don't always remember Infiniti or Acura... Ask my mom what brands of cars there are, she will say Cadillac,Chevy, Ford, Lincoln, Buick, Dodge, and Chrysler. The only foreign nameplate she even knows off the top of her head would be Ford's Volvo.

This is an important point, I think. These names have histories that can be capitalized on, and they don't need to have money lavished on them in order for them to become household words.

Msilva954
06-14-05, 09:36 AM
Yet still the histories really only go as deep as the domestics....forgien cars really have no past with the majority of current buyers....I mean my grandfather bought a 60's diesel mercedes and at the time mercedes was relativly new but beyond that he only can remember the 300SL

JimHare
06-14-05, 09:44 AM
There may be a grain or two of truth to what you both say, but look at it this way - the 'new' consumer (e.g., pretty much anyone under 40) is far more adept at brand differentiation than the previous generation or two was - they are more used to multiple levels of mass communication, segmentation is not a foreign word to them. Brands become 'household' words much faster. 3 years ago, no one knew WTF an iPod was. Now everyone under 30 does.

Multiplicity of brands makes some people uneasy because it removes the ease with which an economic choice could be made. 50 years ago, our fathers had to choose from Ford, GM, or Chrysler. The other auto lines that you had in this country didn't disappear because they weren't known, they disappeared because they did not have as desirable a product as their competitors.

Economies of scale are these days largely offset by robotic production and lower costs of labor and (some) materials. Look at the success of dinky things like the Scion.

HotRodSaint
06-14-05, 11:01 AM
Multiplicity of brands makes some people uneasy because it removes the ease with which an economic choice could be made.

I have a hard time buying toilet paper for that reason! It takes me 20 minutes of reading how many sheets, is it double ply or single, is to 100 yds or 200 yds.

In the end, I wish they'd make "Poop-Master Tissue for Guys" so it would be easier! :lildevil:

But one can never have too many choices of car's. It's when they are all copycats of each other, that it becomes a waste of effort.

Playdrv4me
06-14-05, 11:54 AM
But one can never have too many choices of car's. It's when they are all copycats of each other, that it becomes a waste of effort.

:yeah:

Spyder
06-14-05, 01:54 PM
I agree with the toilet paper as well...Walmart is great, but when you have thirty seven different options, sometimes it gets a bit annoying...

JimHare
06-14-05, 02:22 PM
I agree with the toilet paper as well...Walmart is great, but when you have thirty seven different options, sometimes it gets a bit annoying...Here's a hint: find a brand you like, and stick with it.
:histeric:

;)

Spyder
06-14-05, 02:27 PM
or... ...let it stick with you? :D

Damn display is always changing...I don't remember what I got last time...I should start buying it at Costco, so I don't have to worry about remembering the brand...just buy a years worth at a time...

Ralph
06-18-05, 12:40 AM
Yet still the histories really only go as deep as the domestics....forgien cars really have no past with the majority of current buyers....I mean my grandfather bought a 60's diesel mercedes and at the time mercedes was relativly new but beyond that he only can remember the 300SL

Going back to the topic at hand, and not toilet paper, I think some companies, like Mercedes-Benz, have managed to incorporate the prestige of their long histories as part of their consumer awareness. What I mean is, Mercedes-Benz likes their buyers to know that they are the oldest brand out there (since 1886), and things like classic car shows is a way to reinforce it.

Incidentally, I think the next oldest car brands in the world are Renault and Peugeot from the 1880s. What's the oldest domestic nameplate? Cadillac in 1902? Ford and Buick, 1903? It WAS Oldsmobile from 1897, and they HAD to kill it off.

HotRodSaint
06-18-05, 11:59 AM
Good quality car's is what sells car's. Otherwise Lexus, with no historical value, would have been DOA.

Infiniti has as much history as Lexus, but they lagged behind Acura until they started offering car's that people actually wanted to buy.

What detroit and many, many, many other people forgot, was that car sales is all about the product!! If you make it, they will come.

Being the oldest (or the youngest) means very little if your cars suck.

Both GM and Ford have sponsored and been featured at Pebble Beach (and the accompanying Monterey Historics).

It takes more than advertising and sponsoring to get a very affluent auto enthusiast who can afford to buy any car in the world that has ever been made to purchase your boring FWD luxury sedan.

Their money would be better spent if someone at GM (or Ford) would just walk around the 18th green in August and figure out why classic Cadillacs are equally as coveted as the Duesenburgs, Mercedes Benz, Packards and Rolls Royce's.

Ralph
06-18-05, 05:42 PM
History IS a form of prestige and prestige sells. It is more than just quality as evidenced by MB having terrible quality in electronics and several problems in this area, etc. and still selling quite well on name and image from previous models, etc.

I repeat...

"Mercedes-Benz, have managed to incorporate the prestige of their long histories as part of their consumer awareness. What I mean is, Mercedes-Benz likes their buyers to know that they are the oldest brand out there (since 1886), and things like classic car shows is a way to reinforce it."


I'm not sure who this comment is directed to but it ostracizes MANY happy, excited Cadillac owners here, or yourself.......and that is a shame....but I'm sure it gave someone some pleasure.

"been made to purchase your boring FWD luxury sedan."

HotRodSaint
06-19-05, 02:07 AM
"been made to purchase your boring FWD luxury sedan."

You've obviously never experienced the very snobbish atmosphere of the Pebble Beach Concours D' Elegance, thus my sarcasm was lost on you.

HotRodSaint
06-19-05, 01:28 PM
It is more than just quality as evidenced by MB having terrible quality in electronics and several problems in this area, etc. and still selling quite well on name and image from previous models, etc.

Mercedes total sales for last month were 17,811 (That does not count Maybach or Chrysler).

Lexus is selling 26,455. That's with no fabled marque history to display at Pebble Beach and no storied wins at Le Mans.

BMW was 23,100 (not counting Mini or Rolls Royce).

Even Acura, is beating Mercedes with 18,680.

And the best news is that Cadillac has sales of 21,832.

Car's have always been sold one car at a time. So first, they must be attractive. Second, the manufacturer must have a reputation for quality and only then will more than 2697 people care if Jaguar won Le Mans in the '50's or not.

Playdrv4me
06-19-05, 01:57 PM
BMW was 23,100 (not counting Mini or Rolls Royce)..

Wow... go BMW! I was not surprised by Lexus' number but I didnt think some of those hideous new Bimmers were selling at all. I bet most of that is the snazzy new 3 series and the X5.

Ralph
06-19-05, 05:39 PM
Occasionally, a link for production numbers would be a nice touch. :suspense: and not, "well I heard 3 guys say this about cars at a movie theatre...." etc. Make it a habit to post links because some people are petty enough to even make that an issue.......imagine that!!!

Ya, you're right, sites like THIS proudly proclaiming HERITAGE and history MEAN NOTHING nowadays! :cookoo: Not to most people that cannot see past their nose, or ass.

http://www.100megsfree4.com/cadillac/


I'll remember that next time I think of Olds and their long history and all the previously loyal buyers flocking to Nissan once they were killed off. :thumbsup:

Heritage and history reputation SELL as well because people in a family for GENERATIONS will purchase from one make based on history, frequency of repair, etc.. Hell, even the new Hyundai Luxury division will sell cars and they have NO HISTORY because they will be a totally seperate division, so what! History and prestigue is still a big part of the equasion.

Image is something, but "reputation is everything!" Even with a relatively short-lived" company like Lexus........go figure!

HotRodSaint
06-19-05, 06:20 PM
Occasionally, a link for production numbers would be a nice touch. :suspense: and not, "well I heard 3 guys say this about cars at a movie theatre...." etc. Make it a habit to post links because some people are petty enough to even make that an issue.......imagine that!!!

Here's the sales by nameplate link:
http://www.autonews.com/datacenter.cms?dataCenterId=74

(DO NOT EDIT MY POSTS. IF THEY ARE INFLAMMATORY THEN DELETE THEM!!)

Ralph
06-19-05, 06:24 PM
Inflammatory post

HotRodSaint
06-19-05, 06:26 PM
Inflammatory post

HotRodSaint
06-19-05, 06:33 PM
Occasionally, a link for production numbers would be a nice touch. :suspense: and not, "well I heard 3 guys say this about cars at a movie theatre...." etc. Make it a habit to post links because some people are petty enough to even make that an issue.......imagine that!!!

HOW ABOUT THIS ONE?!!! :mad:

Stoneage_Caddy
06-19-05, 06:34 PM
HOW ABOUT THIS ONE?!!! :mad:
Reported

Ralph
06-19-05, 06:36 PM
Inflammatory post

HotRodSaint
06-19-05, 06:37 PM
Inflammatory post

Ralph
06-21-05, 08:25 PM
http://www.americancarfans.com/news.cfm/newsid/2050602.008/generalmotors/1.html

Some good news, regarding Cadillac....

"Cadillac Deliveries Up 12 Percent, Paced by 51 Percent Increase in Car Sales - Chevrolet Car Sales Up 12 Percent, Led by Record Cobalt Sales



General Motors dealers in the U.S. sold 393,197 new cars and trucks in May, down 5 percent on a selling days adjusted basis. GM's truck sales (238,471) were down 7 percent, due in part to a very strong year-ago comparison when GM set industry sales records for total truck and sport utility vehicle deliveries. Car sales in May (154,726) were down just 1 percent, led by Chevrolet and Cadillac and the sales strength of their new vehicles."

"Cadillac sales improved 12 percent, posting its best May sales since 1993 and led by record CTS deliveries and strong STS sales. CTS sales were up 20 percent, marking the 13th time in the last 17 months that CTS deliveries equaled or improved upon the previous year's sales. STS had 3,346 deliveries in May."

davesdeville
06-21-05, 10:35 PM
Inflammatory post

Can I join the Inflammatory post fun too?

Ralph
06-21-05, 11:17 PM
It looks as though CTS is carrying Cadillac into record sales.

Elvis
06-21-05, 11:33 PM
It looks as though CTS is carrying Cadillac into record sales.

Now, somebody explain to me why the CTS was able to succeed where the Cimarron and Catera failed?

Another thing that doesn't make sense to me is that Cadillac introduced a new body style @ $30,000 then they released basically the same look on a $50,000 vehicle. Usually you start with the new look on your flagship and let it trickle down to the lower-cost models. Caddy did it backwards, and yet it works for them.

I'm not complaining. I'm thrilled to see the Standard of the World returning to prominence.

Ralph
06-21-05, 11:43 PM
Now, somebody explain to me why the CTS was able to succeed where the Cimarron and Catera failed?

Another thing that doesn't make sense to me is that Cadillac introduced a new body style @ $30,000 then they released basically the same look on a $50,000 vehicle. Usually you start with the new look on your flagship and let it trickle down to the lower-cost models. Caddy did it backwards, and yet it works for them.

I'm not complaining. I'm thrilled to see the Standard of the World returning to prominence.

I posted this earlier today, and maybe the article can explain some of that...


http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=43794


I think they tried introducing that radical styling theme in the cheaper model to "test the waters" and if it failed, then they probably wouldn't have gone with that overall design in larger, more expensive models, etc. Also, if it failed on the more expensive model, more might have been invested and lost on the added technology of the more expensive model, etc.

I also think that people get bored with the "main stream" and when something totally new, modern and relatively affordable comes on the market, well, people know a good thing when they see it.

I don't think anybody was fooled by the Catera, as it wasn't REALLY a Cadillac. Same goes for the Cimmer. I also don't think Europeans will be fooled by the BLS because it is basically a Saab, isn't it?

If Cadillac really wants to break into the market, offer the CTS in a right-hand drive model for Japan and England. It's about time Cadillacs made an impact in Japan, etc, especially since they saturate our markets in NA.

Elvis
06-21-05, 11:52 PM
I don't think anybody was fooled by the Catera, as it wasn't REALLY a Cadillac. Same goes for the Cimmer.

Interesting link. I missed it before.

Man, I'm certain that them is fightin' words to somebody! :want:

Was it here, or somewhere else that I read the debate about the original Seville being a Nova-based project? People got really pissed off. But it's true. That one worked out though.

I guess if you go around looking for a fight, you'll find one or it will find you!

Ralph
06-21-05, 11:57 PM
Interesting link. I missed it before.

Man, I'm certain that them is fightin' words to somebody! :want:

Was it here, or somewhere else that I read the debate about the original Seville being a Nova-based project? People got really pissed off. But it's true. That one worked out though.

I guess if you go around looking for a fight, you'll find one or it will find you!

I'm not sure how you mean that "Design" article could be fighting words to someone? Maybe to a Lincoln LS owner, they might be, but only if they took it completely out of context. ;) And they would be VERY VERY jealous of the sales figures. :thumbsup:

Basically, the Catera was an Opel, if I'm not mistaken.

Vesicant
06-22-05, 12:00 AM
Man, I'm certain that them is fightin' words to somebody! :want:



I wont say anything :shocked:

Ralph
06-22-05, 12:08 AM
I wont say anything :shocked:


OK, sorry Jeffery.

I was trying to explain from a market standpoint the possible reasons WHY they weren't really a huge hit. (Catera, Cimmer)

It hurts to say, but MANY people resented the fact the Cimmer was more Cavalier than Caddy. I honestly don't think people were fooled by it. We'll see how successful the BLS is in Europe I suppose.

That might have been a reason for its demise.....thats all...

Elvis
06-22-05, 12:12 AM
The "fightin' words" were the Catera/Cimmer comment. I misplaced a sentence. ;)

Ralph
06-22-05, 12:19 AM
I can't count the number of times my car has been knocked because it's FWD. :helpless:

So don't worry Jeffery. :grouphug:

Elvis
06-22-05, 12:32 AM
I can't count the number of times my car has been knocked because it's FWD. :helpless:


:grouphug:

Ralph
06-22-05, 12:36 AM
:grouphug:

:shocked: :crying: