: Now Hyundai Will Invade Cadillac Territory



Ralph
06-11-05, 12:27 AM
Looks Hyundai's self-confidence is growing by leaps and bounds. Just like the Japanese in the 1980s with Acura, Lexus, and Infiniti, the Koreans are hoping to get a piece of that pie, too. It probably won't be easy to set up a whole new brand, but look how much they've come a long way in the past few years.

Could be yet another competitor for Caddy.

"The potential for a separate premium brand has executives from Hyundai Motor Co. Ltd. in South Korea salivating, but the considerable costs and complexity need to pull off an entirely new brand, with its associated advertising and marketing expenses as well as stand-alone dealerships, have Hyundai's North American divisions, and dealer principals less eager to move forward without some sign of interest from its customers. Krafcik also told Wards that Hyundai's possible luxury brand strategy could "differ regionally", with potential for a luxury arm in Europe but not in North America, or vice versa."

See the car and article HERE...

http://macleans.auto123.com/en/info/news/news,view.spy?artid=42314

DopeStar 156
06-11-05, 12:36 AM
Doesn't seem too likely.

majax
06-11-05, 03:37 AM
Please, no more car brands!

c5 rv
06-11-05, 08:13 AM
They will probably succeed. People blew off Lexus when they first came out, asking who would pay a premium for warmed over Toyotas. There's a new generation of car buyers that are buying Korean cars and liking them. They have no reason to turn up their nose at a premium Korean brand.

Elvis
06-11-05, 08:18 AM
They'll make money, but it will probably be competition for Buick and Mercury, not Cadillac.

Sandy
06-11-05, 09:34 AM
I don't see it happening. Here's why:

Growing up in the 60s and 70s there were 3 brands of Luxury cars:
Cadillac, Lincoln & Imperial. After 1975, Imperial was renamed New Yorker and after 1978, it was gone. Then, Mercedes and to a lesser degree BMW began catching on. By 1985 M-B & BMW were popular alternatives to Cadillac & Lincoln. Then the 4 were challenged by a resurged Audi, and along came Infiniti & Lexus. Now, there were 7. Then Jaguar reinvented itself and then there were 8. For the over $100,000 group we now have Maserati Quatroporte and Rolls Royce & Bentley.
So....
we've grown from the original 3 to now 11 (8 if 'ya keep it under $100,000). The name Hyundai conjurs up image of easy to afford basic transportation. I can't see country club golfers trading in their (pick any brand above) for bragging rights of saying they bought a Hyundai.

Elvis
06-11-05, 09:46 AM
They could try making up a new name like Lexus, Infiniti, Acura.

But I agree, I won't be buying one.

BeelzeBob
06-11-05, 09:47 AM
Old news. :p Wow, I finally got to say that. It's usually said to me. :p But, yes, this is going to happen. .Hyundai is ALREADY competition for Buick and Mercury. The Kia Amanti competes with the Buick Century. It was a much nicer car, in fact. Ever sit in one?

South Korea knows how to make cars. They're "Hyundai" company has a hand in just about everything made in that country. They're building excellent cars.. Have you seen the new Hyundai Sonata?

90Brougham350
06-11-05, 10:38 AM
Let's none of us forget what happened with the Phaeton. This isn't quite the same but the reasons for failure are going to be along the same lines.

Brian

Rolex
06-11-05, 10:57 AM
I believe Hyundai will have a difficult time shaking their old economy car image. That said, I believe the company has come a long way with SOME of their cars in terms of outward image. I don't believe they will pose a serious threat while still making cars under 15k like the Accent and Elantra. Sorry but you can't be taken seriously as a luxury car while wearing a Hyundai badge.

{rodney dangerfield} Hyundai gets no respect. {rodney dangerfield}

BeelzeBob
06-11-05, 11:37 AM
Exactly, Rolex. That's why the cars won't be wearing a Hyundai badge...

Just like why the Phaeton failed. IT was wearing the Volkswagen badge. If it were wearing the Audi badge, it would do better than the A8...

The build quality of current Hyundais is excellent. Sit in the new Sonata and you'll see they've come a long way - EVEN since the XG350! The Azera (XG350 replacement) is really going to be something...

I think Hyundai has a better chance with their luxury division than Honda, Nissan and Toyota did with theirs. Why? Because it's already evident that companies which make economy cars CAN and DO make excellent vehicles (Lexus, Infiniti, Acura). It'll be easier to accept since it's already happened...

BeelzeBob
06-11-05, 11:38 AM
We need one more option for the voting - for me to vote. YES (but won't sell better than Lexus).

Sandy
06-11-05, 12:23 PM
The name Acura keeps popping up herein, but it's NOT classified as a Luxury Car. Perhaps only the RL and then it just eeeks into the ring.

Audi A6 & A8 / VW Phaeton / MB E Class / CLK / CL Class / SLK / SL Class & S Class / BMW 5 & 7 Series / Jaguar S-Type & XJ/XK / deVille & XLR & STS / Lincoln Town Car / Volvo S80 Premier / Infiniti Q / Lexus GS & LS / If we are defining the catagory... as accepted by the manufacturers themselves, the US Government, Wards Automotive & Crain's Automotive News....

Jesda
06-11-05, 01:30 PM
Buick is screwed.

As far as "quality and status" I would have said Lexus and BMW. Excluding quality I'd then add MB. Acura and Infiniti for most of the late 90s competed at entry level of the luxury market, mostly offering upscale versions of fairly pedestrian cars. Not until recently did Inifniti begin moving back upmarket where it began, competing with Lexus. It'll be a while before that translates into status.

BeelzeBob
06-11-05, 04:03 PM
That makes a lot of sense, Sandy.. Just an FYI, though. If you take a seat in a Lexus ES330, you'd wonder how that doesn't fall into the Luxury category. It's nearly as luxurious as the LS430.. Anyway. I've been wondering why I haven't seen Acura mentioned very much in Luxury articles.. The RL is pretty luxurious - but yeah, I can see how they're more sporty than luxurious.. Then again, a 5-series BMW, to me, isn't very luxurious either! The Lincoln Town Car is extremely luxurious - now compare that feeling to a 5-series.. You can't even compare the two... Ya know?

Sandy
06-11-05, 05:54 PM
Sal, you ask me "if I know" ~ ~ I should say so!
http://mark8.org/users/johnaec/greenKIN.jpg
is my daily ride. The Sixty Special is the SHOW CAR and
garage queen!

They use out the door pricing! Cars (not trucks) over $50,001.00 are in - others are "Near Luxury" Class, such as the Lexus ES you mention and the Saab 9.5 AERO and Jaguar X-Type and many many others........including the Acura RL

Stoneage_Caddy
06-11-05, 07:05 PM
dont worry about a hyndai luxury car ...but that rear drive sports car if it posicsed as a replacemnt for the tiburon will be a threat , that car will revolutionize the sport compact world ...along with the giving mustang some much needed compeition

Ralph
06-12-05, 02:50 AM
The thing is, it's going to be a SEPERATE division than Hyundai, so that people don't really associate it with that brand. I think (and fear) that if they offer good quality, (which they do already) nice luxury and options at a good under-cut price, they WILL sell well and eventually hurt Cadillac, etc. It might even cut into CTS territory for sales?? they look VERY serious about it.

There is enough market saturation already, so this cannot be good imo. I won't underestimate them.........yet.

davesdeville
06-12-05, 08:27 AM
Enough market saturation is right. There are about a billion luxury and near luxury models out there already. I can see why the Japanese were able to enter the luxury "ring," their cars were reliable. All they had to do was make them nice to sit in and drive. No Korean brand brings about the idea of reliability to the mind of the average American so they have a hell of a long way to go. Hyundai might have a lot of self confidence but I don't have any confidence in them or their products.

Msilva954
06-12-05, 10:48 AM
I selected maybe...and I believe one day Hyundai will be the 2nd Toyota.

Think about it, it really took 30 years for toyota to get where it has got...when in perspective it took hyundai 10 to get where it has gotten....in 1980...toyota was no where near what hyundai was in 10 years...

On a side note, we had a Kia Optima rental for 30 days while the POS BMW was in the shop.....it was an awsome car...we had a 4 cyl and it was powerful and it was fantastic quality inside....only down side is that im 6'5" and my knees hit the center console

Stoneage_Caddy
06-12-05, 11:00 AM
The thing is, it's going to be a SEPERATE division than Hyundai, so that people don't really associate it with that brand. I think (and fear) that if they offer good quality, (which they do already) nice luxury and options at a good under-cut price, they WILL sell well and eventually hurt Cadillac, etc. It might even cut into CTS territory for sales?? they look VERY serious about it.

There is enough market saturation already, so this cannot be good imo. I won't underestimate them.........yet.
ralph , you ever hear the nathan's hotdog story ?

Well the short of it was this guy nathan saved up 300 dollars and opend his own hotdog stand ....the hotdog stand down the street was slinging dogs for 10 cents each , nathan couldnt sell a single one of his dogs....

Was the quality bad ? NO
Did the dogs taste bad ? NO
So what was the problem ?

Nathan was selling his dogs for 5 cents a peice , signifccantly less than the compeititon ...the buying public wouldnt buy the cheaper hotdog because of its price , they thought it was inferior ....when in reality is was the best damn hotdog out there (still is)...

Huyndai will have to rebrand the car and sell it for a higher price than what they are used to doing ....

alot more than what nathan had to do (give away hotdogs to doctors for a nifty advterising sceme)

Playdrv4me
06-12-05, 11:39 AM
More power to 'em. I believe they can at least undercut Acura with better cars.

Acura may not "officially" be a luxury brand, but it is most certainly perceived that way by the general buying public.

Msilva954
06-12-05, 01:49 PM
http://www.megaauto.com/upload/contents/imgfiles/97/1/29336_17_1.jpg
I like alot...and with 265hp you really cant complain.

Stoneage_Caddy
06-12-05, 02:11 PM
what a nice interior
I CANT BELIVE THATS A HYUNDAI !

i mean i remeber these days :
http://images.dmldirect.com/bookstore/a/868.jpg

hard to belive we are talking about the same folks that 15+ years ago were rebadgeing the worst car mitsubishi ever made

Boombotz
06-12-05, 02:22 PM
http://www.megaauto.com/upload/contents/imgfiles/97/1/29336_17_1.jpg
I like alot...and with 265hp you really cant complain.

Looks luxurious to me.

HotRodSaint
06-12-05, 02:28 PM
Very tasteful use of wood! I bet this interior wasn't designed in Asia by a Korean.


http://www.megaauto.com/upload/contents/imgfiles/97/1/29336_17_1.jpg

Msilva954
06-12-05, 03:15 PM
And thats a under 30,000 dollar car...imagine a 40,000 dollar one...scarry thought for competition.

Playdrv4me
06-12-05, 04:12 PM
And thats a under 30,000 dollar car...imagine a 40,000 dollar one...scarry thought for competition.

My point exactly. A 40K Korean auto would probably slam everything from the domestics and germans under 100k in features if not power too. If Hyundai comes up with a good luxury brand name, and a useful V8 I cant even imagine what they could do.

Ralph
06-12-05, 04:14 PM
I selected maybe...and I believe one day Hyundai will be the 2nd Toyota.

Think about it, it really took 30 years for toyota to get where it has got...when in perspective it took hyundai 10 to get where it has gotten....in 1980...toyota was no where near what hyundai was in 10 years...

On a side note, we had a Kia Optima rental for 30 days while the POS BMW was in the shop.....it was an awsome car...we had a 4 cyl and it was powerful and it was fantastic quality inside....only down side is that im 6'5" and my knees hit the center console

Good point about how long it took hyundai to get to quality, etc. I'm suprised you liked Kia, they are rated terrible by JD Power, and I wonder how they hold up in the long term....

Ralph
06-12-05, 04:17 PM
ralph , you ever hear the nathan's hotdog story ?

Well the short of it was this guy nathan saved up 300 dollars and opend his own hotdog stand ....the hotdog stand down the street was slinging dogs for 10 cents each , nathan couldnt sell a single one of his dogs....

Was the quality bad ? NO
Did the dogs taste bad ? NO
So what was the problem ?

Nathan was selling his dogs for 5 cents a peice , signifccantly less than the compeititon ...the buying public wouldnt buy the cheaper hotdog because of its price , they thought it was inferior ....when in reality is was the best damn hotdog out there (still is)...

Huyndai will have to rebrand the car and sell it for a higher price than what they are used to doing ....

alot more than what nathan had to do (give away hotdogs to doctors for a nifty advterising sceme)

I think you're onto something about possible pricing. They might have to "jack it up" to get that "status" recognition much in the same way some here have talked about Cadillac NEEDING a $100,000 dollar car produced in lower numbers to get high status again, etc.

Maybe at first they will be a bit cheaper, then go up rapidly in price to make up any loss.

Playdrv4me
06-12-05, 04:17 PM
I agree about Kia, they are mostly owned by Hyundai but besides the Sorento everything they make is boring. Hyundai should take the Sorento into their fold, make it a little bigger and call it their own and drop Kia altogether. Kia ONLY sells because they are cheap and easy to finance, Hyundai USED to be this, and now people WANT THEM and buy them because they are SATISFIED with the brand.

Ralph
06-12-05, 04:19 PM
More power to 'em. I believe they can at least undercut Acura with better cars.

Acura may not "officially" be a luxury brand, but it is most certainly perceived that way by the general buying public.

True, I always thought of Acura as Honda's "Luxury Division." We have those little Acura EL's. It's basically a loaded Civic sedan with leather, power sunroof, heated seats Vtek engine and every possible power option known to man. It may not be a "luxury car" but it sure has luxury.

Ralph
06-12-05, 04:20 PM
I agree about Kia, they are mostly owned by Hyundai but besides the Sorento everything they make is boring. Hyundai should take the Sorento into their fold, make it a little bigger and call it their own and drop Kia altogether. Kia ONLY sells because they are cheap and easy to finance, Hyundai USED to be this, and now people WANT THEM and buy them because they are SATISFIED with the brand.

I saw the new Sonata today, and I was impressed!!! I think Sal mentioned them.......the rear end looks identical to a Honda Accord! At a distance it would be difficult to tell the difference.

Ralph
06-12-05, 04:21 PM
http://www.megaauto.com/upload/contents/imgfiles/97/1/29336_17_1.jpg
I like alot...and with 265hp you really cant complain.

That looks like a Lexus interior!

Msilva954
06-12-05, 04:42 PM
Exactly....who wouldnt wanna drive in a car with an interior like that.

Keep in mind its closet competitor is the new Avalon....and in my HONEST opinion the new Avalons interior isnt as nice as this...its got plastic everywhere.

The Azera pictured here has a 3.8L (new engine) tuned for 265hp and 255tq....and this has no relation to mitzu's 3.8.

Im wondering though since Hyundai has decided on a V8 for the future I was wondering if this V6 is a Modular engine?....I dont know the specs of the engine on hand but id assume that if it was a mod engine family then the V8 would be around 4.5-5.0L and make somewhere above 300hp......

Branding is another thing though...Kias are for the most part rebadged...I think in Hyundais stratagy they are going to continually make Hyundai the UPmarket brand and keep Kia with V6's etc....I really dont think they call for a new brand..Hyundai is really building its name...but it doesnt exactly roll of your tongue either.

Sandy
06-12-05, 06:29 PM
Very nice interior, exceptional. Can we see the exterior ?

Msilva954
06-12-05, 07:37 PM
of course...keep in mind this is their new top model....and I think its pretty awsome.
http://www.megaauto.com/upload/contents/imgfiles/97/1/29336_1_1.jpg
http://www.megaauto.com/upload/contents/imgfiles/97/1/29336_16_1.jpg
http://www.megaauto.com/upload/contents/imgfiles/97/1/29336_18_1.jpg
http://www.megaauto.com/upload/contents/imgfiles/97/1/29336_19_1.jpg
http://server2.uploadit.org/files/epitherm-int700.jpg

alot but I think these sum it up pretty well, they offer it in a color similar to Sandy's SixtySpecial...and it looks awsome.

Ralph
06-12-05, 07:50 PM
I see a lot of cars in that......the front end is Acura RL'ish, the taillights are Accord'ish, the overall exterior looks either like an Avalon or Lexus ES300, the interior is a total copy of Lexus, even the symbol on the steering wheel! You have to look twice.

They could build a rep with this and then kill the luxury market with their seperate division!

Playdrv4me
06-12-05, 08:05 PM
That interior is pure Lexus/Toyota Avalon. Everything from the dash to the radio controls in the rear seat armrest and the switches for the driver to control the passenger's seat placement on the left side of the passenger's seat. That is something Ive only seen on Lexus thus far. I wonder if it has Xenon lights.

From Wikipedia:
...Being a step up from the all new 2006 Hyundai Sonata, the Azera is predicted to be priced from $25,000 to $30,000. The Azera will be the most luxurious flagship sedan Hyundai has ever produced, until 2007, when an all-new rear wheel drive luxury sedan is released under the Hyundai name to test the waters for a future luxury brand.

Looks like it will have some interesting features. Power rear sunshade, LED tail-lamps, 315 Watt Infinity sound system, ESP and Traction Control, Dual Zone climate control, no less than EIGHT airbags, Electroluminescent gauges and a bunch of other stuff. Though it doesnt look like Nav will actually be available at the introduction.

Msilva954
06-12-05, 08:56 PM
I think it is much better executed inside then toyota and lexus...it doesnt have the bland look that they have but a more unique one....I like it alot and the quality is of a 40,000 dollar car

Jesda
06-12-05, 10:23 PM
Thats pretty sweet. The car looks like an Acura RL minus the ugly, plus the value.

Ralph
06-13-05, 12:02 AM
Thats pretty sweet. The car looks like an Acura RL minus the ugly, plus the value.

So you guys would buy one then?

Playdrv4me
06-13-05, 12:34 AM
So you guys would buy one then?

No, its still a Hyundai, and while they may be terrific cars, I still wouldnt buy a Hyundai unless my finances dictated it. IF however it was between say this little Hyundai and a fully loaded Ford Taurus or Chevy Impala, id probably pick the Hyundai.

ben72227
06-13-05, 12:35 AM
So you guys would buy one then?

That's a tough call. It's definately better looking than the CTS (with all of that extra plastic on the CTS console), on the inside anyway. However, it is STILL a Hyundai, and the brand just isn't established enough yet.

To be honest, I wouldn't mind having that car, but if I was to BUY a car in that price range, I would probably get one of the new BMW 3-series. But it looks AWESOME for a Hyundai though...I think in a few more years they could very well be up there with Lexus if they have good reliability and more of that styling for those prices...

Ralph
06-13-05, 12:39 AM
I like the new 3 series too. Very comfortable car and just the right size for me.

What about that exclusive luxury model in the article? Technically, it would be it's own division and not wear a Hyundai badge, but knowing it's Korean, could you own one?

Jesda
06-13-05, 12:39 AM
Compared to current midsize domestic and Japanese offerings, I'd at least strongly consider it. We'll see how it goes down the road.

davesdeville
06-13-05, 04:25 AM
In that price range I'd go for a 300 3.5 or C. The Hyundai looks like a boring round Japanese near luxury car, same old same old. Plus the 3.8 isn't exactly hair raising in performance or economy.

addison_ii
06-13-05, 04:36 AM
I think that if they actually make it a different car and not just use a current model with a few upgrades, it may sell and sell big. However I prefer GM. That's who I grew up with, that's who my dad and uncles worked for and that basically all I have ever owned with the exception of 1980 MB 280Se.

Msilva954
06-13-05, 08:58 AM
With different rims id buy it over anything from Honda, Toyota, and most any other brand for the money.

The warrenty is great and the worlds biggest dealer just opened up next to me.

But that Mazda speed 6 is pretty damn nice too for the same money.

HotRodSaint
06-13-05, 09:05 AM
...for the same money.

That's the key to most peoples buying decisions. And that's where the Monte Carlo falls way short.

Most people add up styling, performance, quality of materials and then weigh it against the cost.

For the price, there are many better options.

And Dave is right. The V8 helps the Monte compete with the V6's, not with the GTO or Mustang.

Ralph
06-13-05, 10:49 PM
There seem to be two types of luxury car buyers. One type looks for a deal and bases their buying decision primarily on price. The other type doesn't really care as much about cost, and is more interested in status and rarity. In fact, the second type of buyer might even buy something BECAUSE it costs more.

So if/when Hyundai sets up a new luxury division I suspect they'll be going after the "value" buyer, just like Honda does with Acura. The Koreans seem to be imitating the Japanese note-for-note, following what they did in the 1980s.

BeelzeBob
06-14-05, 12:27 PM
A point to remember is: When Lexus introduced it's LS400 in 1989, IT was going after the "value" buyer.

Hyundai is improving by leaps and bounds with every new model. First came the XG300, then the XG350, then the Kia Amanti (someone mentioned Kias are boring - this one isn't), then the new Sonata (excellent build quality and not bad looking at all) - and now the new Azera (replacing the XG). This is a high quality vehicle with a v6 that brings a lot of power to the table. Hyundai is capable of making good vehicles with nice exteriors and even nicer interiors, they can bring excellent power to the wheels and they have a 10 year/100,000 mile standard warranty!

Anyone who's not aware that this company is going to make a huge impact in the United States is not seeing the big picture. After Hyundai introduces it's RWD luxury sedan in a couple of years, what's left to criticize? Nothing at all.. When they launch their new luxury division, it will definitely steal sales from ALL the major players. There will always be a portion of people who, in the end, opt for the vehicle that closely compares with the MUCH better price tag.

BeelzeBob
06-14-05, 12:36 PM
P.S. They're not only paying attention to what's happening in Japan. They're keeping a very close eye on Germany as well...

Ralph
06-14-05, 01:51 PM
Anyone who's not aware that this company is going to make a huge impact in the United States is not seeing the big picture. After Hyundai introduces it's RWD luxury sedan in a couple of years, what's left to criticize? Nothing at all.. When they launch their new luxury division, it will definitely steal sales from ALL the major players. There will always be a portion of people who, in the end, opt for the vehicle that closely compares with the MUCH better price tag.

Exactly!!

Ralph
06-14-05, 02:03 PM
http://www.autopacific.com/sub_pr.php?action=view&sub=&section=12&type=58&group=99&id=647

'The facility is large (capable of an annual production volume of 300,000 vehicles). It is as modern as any in North America - maybe in the world. The whole facility represents an investment of about $1.1 billion; two million air-conditioned square feet under roof. It includes not only vehicle assembly but also a stamping plant (manned by only 37 workers) and V6 engine machining and assembly, even a 2.3-mile test track (where 100% of initial production will be tested). Employment will be about 2,000.

Production of the new 2006 Hyundai Sonata mid-size sedan is already underway. The new Santa Fe sport utility will follow next year, and there is provision for two additional models, yet to be announced. And, no, there will not be any Kia products produced at this plant. It is Hyundai only.

Actually, production launch is a little behind schedule. Why? Because of Hyundai's attention to quality. This isn't just words - they mean it! Launching an all new assembly plant along with an all new car is a tremendous challenge. Lessons from Hyundai's Bromont, Quebec experience of 10-15 years ago and the experience of other manufacturers who may have recently tried to launch too many vehicles too quickly have been well learned. Just ask Nissan about the challenges at their Canton, Mississippi plant."

Playdrv4me
06-14-05, 02:24 PM
As far as I see it, the only major problem Hyundai still has, as with most Korean manufacturers, is their vehicles have no lineage. What I mean by that is, even when you see a 1990 LS400 and compare it to the current model you can see the resemblance and the evolution of the car makes sense. If you see a 1996 Sonata and then a 2001 Sonata, and then a 2006 Sonata, the cars have ABSOLUTELY NO family resemblance whatsoever. The entire lineup is like this, everytime a new model is introduced it is a complete departure stylistically from the previous one. Thereby all you get is a nametag with no association of a particular style of vehicle.

Im sure eventually this will settle down a bit but for now it can be real confusing.

Ralph
06-14-05, 02:46 PM
Looks like the "Maybes" have taken a rise in the poll, likely after seeing the new pics and possibly realizing how serious Hyundai really is about competing in this segment...

BeelzeBob
06-14-05, 03:10 PM
If you see a 1996 Sonata and then a 2001 Sonata, and then a 2006 Sonata, the cars have ABSOLUTELY NO family resemblance whatsoever. The entire lineup is like this, everytime a new model is introduced it is a complete departure stylistically from the previous one.

This is entirely true - but they're aware of this.. At one time, I had some rapport with a Hyundai executive and we discussed this.. They're growing and learning as they go along - about style. They've been pretty successful WHILE looking for an identity, but as their designs improve, they'll be carrying ques into newer models more and more.

Playdrv4me
06-14-05, 03:52 PM
Good point.

I think another area where we are seeing the explosion of the Korean sector is in the Electronics industry. Samsung and LG are now DOMINANT and I do mean DOMINANT players in the consumer electronics industry in everything from Washers and Dryers to Plasma TV's (and in many cases they source their glass and other materials from the same places the Japanese guys do, and sometimes the Japanese source from THEM now!!). It is incredible to see the strides the Koreans are making and I applaud them completely for it. They are really starting to show the Japanese a little of their own medicine and its quite funny and interesting to watch.

Brett
06-14-05, 07:56 PM
nobody should underestimate what Lexus was able to do....you cant simply say, well look at Lexus, as evidence that this can work. infiniti is finally coming on now 15+ years after they started out. How about Amati(does anyone even know what that is?). hyundai will have to do alot more then bend metal into a pleasing shape and copy other peoples interiors to make a major impact imo. lets not forget dealership experience, resale values, reliable drivetrains, technology(my LS430 has a few toys that the S classes and 7er's dont even have) so you just cant copy, you must innovate. Lexus and infinit will be the brands to watch for the next 10 years imo.

BeelzeBob
06-15-05, 12:52 AM
Yes, that is for certain, Brett.. However, what Hyundai is going to do is grab the buyers who aren't concerned with innovation. They want the buyers who are willing to sacrifice a piece of the product for half the price... If I'm not mistaken, Hyundai isn't too far down the list in reliability. The drivetrains seem reliable.. What they're going to need to work on is dealership experience (which I'm sure they'll do just fine with a luxury brand) and resale values. They're certainly not going to put anybody out of business - but they're going to keep car makers on their toes.

davesdeville
06-15-05, 03:39 AM
Sal, exactly how much Hyundai stock do you own?

Brett
06-15-05, 07:52 AM
LOL, thats what i was thinking dave. As far as market share, they will definitely get some. selling one car earns you some market share, whether its sustainable is the question.

Playdrv4me
06-15-05, 10:25 AM
I dont think its a question of if but when. As has already been said, Hyundai has made some major strides. Lexus has had an impressive run, but its not impossible to duplicate their success, especially at a substantially lower pricepoint which is the key. Infiniti failed because they attempted to follow suit at the same price point per vehicle as Lexus and Lexus had them whooped in almost every category. In all fairness, Nissan as a WHOLE was doing poorly until Carlos Ghosn stepped in and revamped the entire company from the smallest bolt to the department heads. It wasnt necessarily because Infiniti copied Lexus and failed.

BeelzeBob
06-15-05, 10:42 AM
Sal, exactly how much Hyundai stock do you own?

Kcnewell asked me the same question regarding Lexus years ago. I'm a Cadillac enthusiast above all - but I'm an automotive enthusiast too. I like all kinda of automobiles. I'm not biased at all toward any of them. I can appreciate many different makes and models...

Some people just can't get "Hyundai" out of their heads.. This was the same case for "Toyota" not long ago... Now many of the worlds wealthiest citizens own Toyotas (including Bill Gates).

powerglide
06-15-05, 04:01 PM
I bet it can happen.

Quality will catch up.

The new name would differentiate the brand from the negative associations like Hyundai and Kia.

People have short memories.

I still meet people thats dont know a Lexus is a Toyota!

Msilva954
06-15-05, 08:37 PM
Hyundai will definently take over alot of the auto industry by suprise...look at the company..its the 2nd largest in Korea only to Samsung.

On to what was said before....Amanti woulda been a good brand....truthfully I think it would have been the truest of the BMW--type Jap companies..more so then even Acura is...too bad it never went through...we would be driving the Cosmo now...one of the nicest cars ever from a jap company in my opinion (keep in mind this car had a GPS in 1993 and the 3 rotor 20B mazda rotor engine)....much like a 6series style car of the time. And it would have been called the RX-8 if the Amanti brand was developed here....sadly we only got the Millenia
http://www.dmrh.com.au/images/jc02.jpg
http://www.monito.com/Images/jc01-w480.jpg
http://www.dmrh.com.au/images/jc061.jpg
http://www.dmrh.com.au/images/jc06.jpg

Ralph
06-15-05, 09:08 PM
This might be a very good time to purchase Hyundai stock. :sneaky:

Doesn't Bill Gates own a Hybrid? I know he had a Porsche that was in Dupont Registry some years back.

powerglide
06-15-05, 10:22 PM
This might be a very good time to purchase Hyundai stock. :sneaky:

Doesn't Bill Gates own a Hybrid? I know he had a Porsche that was in Dupont Registry some years back.


Hyundai stock is so cheap right now, its most definitely buying time.....too bad its a pain to trade.

94EldoTour
06-16-05, 12:08 AM
I see the Hyundai luxury division being successful,b ut competion for upper scale luxury such as Benz,Cadillac,Lexus,etc.,no way.I think Hyundai's new division will compete and eventually overcome lower scale luxury such as Buick and Chrysler.This will only be because there going to be cheap.Thats the only reason there so successful now is because of their prices and there warrenties.You can't beat them.There a decent car for the price.But there still junk,and thats why you pay so little.You get what you pay for.Your not going to spend 15 grand for a Tiburon and get XLR quality.Its a bargain,but the cars itself is still junk.Why not spend 15 grand on a Tiburon,get a 10 year warrenty,and if it breaks down,your covered.Thats why people keep coming back because of what they got to offer.Thats what others need to catch on to and start doing.Cheaper cars price wise and better warrenties so they can compete with these ongoing successful manufacturers such as Hyundai.Because soon everyone is going to realize that the korean car is the better buy.GM should look into this method of selling cars rather than laying of 20 thousand employees here and there.But I still don't see them taking over Cadillac.Maybe Buick but never Cadillac.

And to Msliva,how do you call a pure plastic and snap together interior quality?

Ralph
06-16-05, 12:22 AM
Its a bargain,but the cars itself is still junk.

I think you are still under the impression that Hyundai are "junk?" They actually did VERY well matching and even eventually beating Toyota!

http://cadillacforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23977

Now that we've dispelled that myth, who would have thought Toyota was a threat in the 1970's?? Or Honda?? The Koreans are learning, and learning FAST by copying what they did!

Certainly no Tiburon should be compared to an XLR, that's just not really logical IMO, but if the new division wants to sell the new luxury-specific vehicles at an escalated ridiculous price to shout "here is status" I bet they will still sell many of them. Many people buy just for that reason, ie. because it's expensive and unique, etc. In the 20 or so years they have been around, they have proven themselves and producing a status luxury car would only be the next logical step, following in the footsteps of Acura, Lexus and Infinity.

Remember, this is going to be an ultra-luxury brand, and NOT to be confused with the name "Hyundai." Yes, I believe it will hurt Cadillac and Lincoln to a degree.

BTW, welcome to the forum. :)

Ralph
06-16-05, 12:30 AM
http://www.dmrh.com.au/images/jc02.jpg
http://www.monito.com/Images/jc01-w480.jpg
http://www.dmrh.com.au/images/jc061.jpg
http://www.dmrh.com.au/images/jc06.jpg

WOW those seats are beautiful, I can smell the leather! :yup: In a "Michelin Man-ish" kind of way. :histeric:

Ralph
06-16-05, 12:34 AM
As far as I see it, the only major problem Hyundai still has, as with most Korean manufacturers, is their vehicles have no lineage. What I mean by that is, even when you see a 1990 LS400 and compare it to the current model you can see the resemblance and the evolution of the car makes sense.

This is a good point. Look at the Honda civic. Every few years it seems they do a "makeover" but you can still see the resemblance of the previous, etc. However, the NEXT Civic is a bit radical and a bit RSX like.

http://cadillacforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=40472

Ralph
06-16-05, 12:39 AM
Plus the 3.8 isn't exactly hair raising in performance or economy.

That's just one way to keep the pricing down a bit perhaps. A lot can be accomplished with a smaller engine these days. :yup: Trade technology for cubic inches and it can still be successful. ;)

Playdrv4me
06-16-05, 01:02 AM
junk.

And this is PRECISELY the image that Hyundai is still fighting to overcome. Once they get past this I think the road ahead will be a successful one for Hyundai if they play their cards right.

BTW... That Amati is GORGEOUS! The exterior is kind of bleh but the interior is the nicest thing this side of a Bentley for 1993! Look at the Electro-luminescent gauges. Besides Lexus they'd have been the only manufacturer with that for 1993.

Dont forget however that the early 90's Oldsmobile Toronado Trofeo also had a video monitor information system in it as well. Im not too certain what were looking at in that Amati is actually a GPS but rather a sophisticated vehicle data center like the one in the Olds.

BeelzeBob
06-16-05, 01:47 AM
Ralph is right. Hyundai has already defeated "junk" status. Only the uninformed still call Hyundai vehicles "junk". They're not up to Cadillac status but that's not what Hyundai is about. Their luxury division will be created to compete with Cadillac, Lexus, Infiniti, Mercedes and BMW. The quality of the vehicles in this new division will be of higher quality than they're already building. I'm sure the cars will be pretty expensive and unique as well. This isn't a group of college kids creating an automobile company for a project. I see people keep mentioning that this new luxury division will compete with the likes of Buick - that's false. Hyundai is competing with Buick. This is nothing new.

There's nothing wrong with a little more competition. It'll keep our favorite executives on their toes...

Oh and those Amanti seats look amazingly plush!! Imagine? That's a 1993 Mazda..

davesdeville
06-16-05, 04:59 AM
Kcnewell asked me the same question regarding Lexus years ago. I'm a Cadillac enthusiast above all - but I'm an automotive enthusiast too. I like all kinda of automobiles. I'm not biased at all toward any of them. I can appreciate many different makes and models...

I was wondering if you'd get that referance. :coolgleam


That's just one way to keep the pricing down a bit perhaps. A lot can be accomplished with a smaller engine these days. :yup: Trade technology for cubic inches and it can still be successful. ;)

Did I complain that it was small? No, I complained that it was underpowered and didn't get as good fuel economy as an underpowered 3.8 should. The Nissan 3.5 is smaller but puts out up to 35 more hp.



Ralph is right. Hyundai has already defeated "junk" status. Only the uninformed still call Hyundai vehicles "junk". They're not up to Cadillac status but that's not what Hyundai is about. Their luxury division will be created to compete with Cadillac, Lexus, Infiniti, Mercedes and BMW. The quality of the vehicles in this new division will be of higher quality than they're already building. I'm sure the cars will be pretty expensive and unique as well. This isn't a group of college kids creating an automobile company for a project. I see people keep mentioning that this new luxury division will compete with the likes of Buick - that's false. Hyundai is competing with Buick. This is nothing new.

So that would be... a good 80% of the car buying public still thinking "junk."

The Azera is nowhere near a Cadillac, but it might take some sales from Buick. I don't think you can get away with saying a whole brand competes with another based on one car, Buick does not make anything as low as an Accent. And it's hard to say what a brand that isn't even going to be decided on for 3 years WILL compete with.



Anyway, that interior looks dated, even for 1993 IMO. The seats look nice, but hell, what car company can't build good seats? I mean the seats in my 78 are a lot more plush. The rest is so-so at best, I really fail to see what you all are drooling over.

BeelzeBob
06-16-05, 11:44 AM
The Azera isn't supposed to compete with Cadillac. It's competing more along the lines of Buick. Same goes for the Amanti.. You're right, these Koreans vehicles aren't competing with the best Buick has to offer.. But Hyundai isn't going to create a new division just to compete with Buick. When the new rear-wheel drive vehicle is introduced (higher model than the Azera), it'll likely compete with the best Buick has to offer. This will still be Hyundai. The luxury division will compete with Cadillac, Lexus, BMW and Mercedes.. Will they succeed? Who knows? Only time will tell. But I'm sure the vehicles will be a nice alternative for those who cannot afford an S-Class, 7-Series, LS430 or DTS...

Playdrv4me
06-16-05, 11:53 AM
Heh... that Amati even kinda looks like a Cosmo...

http://www.dmrh.com.au/images/jc02.jpg

http://www-cs-students.stanford.edu/~yonglee/gifs/seinfeld/thekramer.jpg

powerglide
06-16-05, 12:01 PM
Nice!

Msilva954
06-16-05, 01:03 PM
plastic snap together interior? Have you even driven the newer hyundais, they are not junk....3 weeks ago we went from one to a Civic....the civic was the junker of the two...dont be ignorant on the subject unless you drive them first...they arent BMWs,Mercedes etc...but they dont cost that either...and to tell you the truth people are buying them now because they are getting better and better every year...and you get ALOT more for your money.

Ralph
06-16-05, 05:31 PM
[QUOTE=davesdeville]

Did I complain that it was small? No, I complained that it was underpowered and didn't get as good fuel economy as an underpowered 3.8 should. The Nissan 3.5 is smaller but puts out up to 35 more hp.

[QUOTE]

I do believe that the seperate ultra-status luxury division, will not put in a low powered engine, NOT unless they don't want them to sell, etc.

It's about luxury and power not luxury and wimpiness. I think they'll get it right the first time simply because they have looked at what the others have done and only improved upon that.

Msilva954
06-16-05, 08:49 PM
Remember that the 3.5 is running premium fuel too....I know the hyundai isnt.

Ralph
06-16-05, 09:08 PM
From the article...

"In South Korea, the Equus is available with a standard V6 engine, and an optional V8, with most analysts expecting the V8 to be the only engine offered in North America."

Stoneage_Caddy
06-16-05, 09:29 PM
This Hyundai V8 is intrugeing ....so i did a little searching ...it does exist and displaces 4.5 litres ...

http://worldwide.hyundai-motor.com/common/img/showroom/passenger/centennial/safety/performance/sa_peb_02.gif


The Multi-Point-Injection V-8 engine significantly improves power output while reducing fuel consumption and harmful emission.
It delivers 274ps@5500rpm and 38.3kgm of torque @4500 for dramatic acceleration.
(thats 270hp and 276 lb ft ,well within stiking distace of the l37 northstar)

http://worldwide.hyundai-motor.com/

the car is called the "Centennial"

The parts are there ....id like to see what they do ...

Ralph
06-16-05, 09:33 PM
This Hyundai V8 is intrugeing ....so i did a little searching ...it does exist and displaces 4.5 litres ...

http://worldwide.hyundai-motor.com/common/img/showroom/passenger/centennial/safety/performance/sa_peb_02.gif


(thats 270hp and 276 lb ft ,well within stiking distace of the l37 northstar)

http://worldwide.hyundai-motor.com/

the car is called the "Centennial"

The parts are there ....id like to see what they do ...

I got a gateway timeout on that link unfortunately.

Damn, that torque is identical to our cars!! I'm NOT commenting on the HP! :crying:

For their ultra-luxury division, they'll probably come out with a V12 and kick everybody in the azz!

Stoneage_Caddy
06-16-05, 09:37 PM
I got a gateway timeout on that link unfortunately.

Damn, that torque is identical to our cars!! I'm NOT commenting on the HP! :crying:
get used to it ralph ...even in 93/94 200hp 5 litre v8s were lame .....the 5.0 mustang was the standard with what 230hp ?

thats my main grips about mine ....its a lame duck after 85mph....the power it makes is more inline with a diesel than a luxury car engine ...bags of lovely torque down low but nothing for you up high

Ralph
06-16-05, 09:50 PM
get used to it ralph ...even in 93/94 200hp 5 litre v8s were lame .....the 5.0 mustang was the standard with what 230hp ?

thats my main grips about mine ....its a lame duck after 85mph....the power it makes is more inline with a diesel than a luxury car engine ...bags of lovely torque down low but nothing for you up high

I still like to tell people that my Car has the SAME torque as the Ferrari 360 Modena. (275) only problem, I doubt our cars will rev to 8,000 rpm. :shhh:

Stoneage_Caddy
06-16-05, 09:51 PM
they will ....once

davesdeville
06-16-05, 11:28 PM
Hey if Potter can make a 500ci V8 from the 70s rev to 8800 I'm sure you could make a 4.9 do it too.

Playdrv4me
06-16-05, 11:46 PM
This Hyundai V8 is intrugeing ....so i did a little searching ...it does exist and displaces 4.5 litres ...

http://worldwide.hyundai-motor.com/common/img/showroom/passenger/centennial/safety/performance/sa_peb_02.gif


(thats 270hp and 276 lb ft ,well within stiking distace of the l37 northstar)

http://worldwide.hyundai-motor.com/

the car is called the "Centennial"

The parts are there ....id like to see what they do ...

Wow, im Impressed! Theyve already got the engine, now they just need the size, luxury and rear wheel drive. Doesnt seem like its too far out of reach.

davesdeville
06-16-05, 11:50 PM
That's not exactly a class leading engine. It wouldn't have even been a class leader 10-12 years ago. They really need to step it up if they want to compete.

Play, you're not impressed by a 469hp 4.4 SC but you're impressed by a 270hp 4.5? Cadillac hasn't had a V8 under 275hp since 1996.

Ralph
06-17-05, 01:24 AM
That's not exactly a class leading engine. It wouldn't have even been a class leader 10-12 years ago. They really need to step it up if they want to compete.

Play, you're not impressed by a 469hp 4.4 SC but you're impressed by a 270hp 4.5? Cadillac hasn't had a V8 under 275hp since 1996.

True, but considering how long it took the Koreans to develop that technology........

in relation to how long Cadillac has been around, for example......

Playdrv4me
06-17-05, 01:29 AM
That's not exactly a class leading engine. It wouldn't have even been a class leader 10-12 years ago. They really need to step it up if they want to compete.

Play, you're not impressed by a 469hp 4.4 SC but you're impressed by a 270hp 4.5? Cadillac hasn't had a V8 under 275hp since 1996.

Why does one necessarily have to have anything to do with the other? Im not impressed with the ***440HP*** SC (not normally aspirated) Cadillac engine because I know Cadillac is capable of more and has an entire corporate toolbox and corporate muscle-car history to build from. The blown N* is admirable, but there are quite a few other ways to have achieved the end result. In fact even differentiating the XLR and STS with perhaps one getting the blown N* and the other getting the SAE concept powertrain would have more than satisfied me. But Hyundai on the other hand has been exposing us to nothing but 4 bangers and economical six cylinders for as long as they have existed. I didnt even KNOW they HAD a V8 already in production, and this is why I was impressed. Yea, youre absolutely right 270 horses from a V8 isnt anything impressive on its own, but for Hyundai its a start and it proves that for them to bring it all together (improve the engine if they want, spruce up a nice RWD platform etc) wouldnt take very much. Why is it that them having a slightly weaker V8 suddenly means they cant produce one more powerful, or that for the buyer they will target a 270hp engine might even be just fine?

I know when the 5.9L Grand Cherokee came out in 1998 it created alot of buzz and its amazing to me to think back and be surprised by the fact that even THAT was just 245hp and from the OLD SCHOOL 360 Chrysler V8 no less.

What I basically was impressed with was the fact that they even have a corporate V8 already out there somewhere, I dont think Honda has ever produced a V8 for production vehicles in their entire history.

Ralph
06-17-05, 01:31 AM
I have a 200 hp V8. :woohoo: :gnome: :excited:

Playdrv4me
06-17-05, 01:36 AM
I have a 200 hp V8. :woohoo: :gnome: :excited:

Which in its prime was nothing to sneeze at!

Ralph
06-17-05, 01:39 AM
Which in its prime was nothing to sneeze at!

My brochure brags that it was the world's most powerful FWD vehicle, at that time. :cool:

The torque really is incredible though, if you tap it too hard at a light you have everyones' attention!! :burn: I like the mellow burble/rumble on the exhaust note.

Msilva954
06-17-05, 07:46 AM
Hyundai would not use that engine, im almost postive...that engine is a Mitsubishi sourced engine and as many know from the new articles Hyundai is in the process of breaking all engine ties with mitsu.

So what does that mean?....Im guessing that we will be seeing a 300+ HP engine from them in V8 form in the next 3 years.

BeelzeBob
06-17-05, 08:44 AM
Wow, im Impressed! Theyve already got the engine, now they just need the size, luxury and rear wheel drive. Doesnt seem like its too far out of reach.

They already have the luxury here in America.. Take an XG350 or Kia Amanti for a test drive. The new Azera will be even more luxurious. Believe me, the luxury is there. They have the size as well - just not in America yet.. The rear wheel drive is on it's way - next year, I believe...

BeelzeBob
06-17-05, 08:47 AM
So what does that mean?....Im guessing that we will be seeing a 300+ HP engine from them in V8 form in the next 3 years.

It's almost ready for production...

BeelzeBob
06-17-05, 08:50 AM
Listen, all you nay-sayers.. Forget about the whole idea of Hyundai competing with Cadillac. They're not. Hyundai doesn't want anything to do with BMW-like hard, cold interiors with suspensions that make your prostate wiggle like a weeble-wobble over bumps. Yes, they're looking to Germany for some of their innovation and "improved" handling, but Hyundai's luxury division is going for true "luxury" status and will probably more-closely compete with Lincoln (soft ride, quiet interior, etcetera).

Cadillac has gone off the beaten path and found new stamina - with sporty vehicles that are less comfortable to sit in but more fun to drive. That's not where Hyundai is going.

Stoneage_Caddy
06-17-05, 10:08 AM
Hyundai would not use that engine, im almost postive...that engine is a Mitsubishi sourced engine and as many know from the new articles Hyundai is in the process of breaking all engine ties with mitsu.

So what does that mean?....Im guessing that we will be seeing a 300+ HP engine from them in V8 form in the next 3 years.
I dont think its a mitsu engine , i know of nothing that engine went into , in fact the only V8 they made that i know of went into the Mitsu Magna that competed in the Austrailian V8 supercar series , which was a speical bilt racecar that started life out on what we know as the diamante , then fabbed into rear drive with a pushrod V8 (from dodge)

i cant seem to find much on the car , there is alot fo buzz of the mitsu competeing soon but no old articles on this car which ran in 2001-2

Stoneage_Caddy
06-17-05, 10:11 AM
Listen, all you nay-sayers.. Forget about the whole idea of Hyundai competing with Cadillac. They're not. Hyundai doesn't want anything to do with BMW-like hard, cold interiors with suspensions that make your prostate wiggle like a weeble-wobble over bumps. Yes, they're looking to Germany for some of their innovation and "improved" handling, but Hyundai's luxury division is going for true "luxury" status and will probably more-closely compete with Lincoln (soft ride, quiet interior, etcetera).

Cadillac has gone off the beaten path and found new stamina - with sporty vehicles that are less comfortable to sit in but more fun to drive. That's not where Hyundai is going.
sal is right here , anyone worried that hyundai will eat caddys luch isnt totaly accurate , hyundai doesnt have the pedigree to get head to head with Lincolin or Cadillac .....the best they could ever do is eat infinitis lunch

Playdrv4me
06-17-05, 10:40 AM
Ill agree on that. Id say Infiniti is probably at risk the most.

Msilva954
06-17-05, 11:38 AM
I dont think its a mitsu engine , i know of nothing that engine went into , in fact the only V8 they made that i know of went into the Mitsu Magna that competed in the Austrailian V8 supercar series , which was a speical bilt racecar that started life out on what we know as the diamante , then fabbed into rear drive with a pushrod V8 (from dodge)

i cant seem to find much on the car , there is alot fo buzz of the mitsu competeing soon but no old articles on this car which ran in 2001-2


Well I do know that the design is a Mitsubishi design...it was developed by them and manufactured by hyundai...so technically it isnt a Hyundai engine...The Equues that used it was FWD also but we will never see that engine....the new one will most definently be competitive though.

Edit: I looked it up real quick ... http://www.autozine.org/html/Hyundai/Equus.html

that pretty much explains their current top of the line in Korea

Stoneage_Caddy
06-17-05, 02:17 PM
if you read the article youll see something very interesting about the engine ....GDI ...Gasoline Direct Injection ....

which also means your right , it wont make it over , Isuzu is haveing quite a bit of trouble with there 3.5s right now , our high sulfur fuel isnt a good mix with there Direct injection stuff , Isuzu really gameled bringing there 3,5 over , im sure hyndai will devolp the 4.5 for our shores , but im betting it wont have 260+ hp but rather around 240 max , they arent as emmisions regualted and there fuel is of higher quality yeilding more powerful engines ...

davesdeville
06-17-05, 07:20 PM
I sat in an Amanti and checked it out when my friend was buying a used car from the Kia dealership. I can't say I was impressed with the inteiror, and it's exterior styling is ugly and has no soul. The engine is, again, not exactly hair raising either, although I didn't test drive it I've read the numbers.

BeelzeBob
06-17-05, 10:50 PM
If you weren't impressed with the Amanti's interior - especially considering it's a KIA - than you're being very stubborn. You're set in your thoughts and no matter what anyone says, you're not going to even consider the possibility that, generally, people like the car(s). As far as you're concerned, most people see these automobiles as second-rate - but that's not the case. Anyone who's atleast capable of admitting that Hyundai and Kia have come a long way since being a second rate car company.......... Nevermind.

The fact of the matter is - Hyundai is building some luxurious, affordable vehicles with features that normally don't come on cars that cost below $50,000.00.. They're raising executive's eyebrows at Cadillac, BMW and wherever else luxury automobiles are made - whether you like it or not - and whether you want to admit knowing that or not.

I don't know. To me, this is an impressive interior:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=6289&item=4557095822&rd=1

If that car had a Mercedes symbol on it, your opinion would be different. That's why Hyundai is planning on a luxury division. So people don't look at the badge and assume it's unimpressive.

Maybe I'm just easily impressed.

Ralph
06-17-05, 11:03 PM
Here's a point that's interesting: did you know that Toyota's been producing a V12 for years and years for their Century ultra-luxury sedan. Here's some pics:

Msilva954
06-18-05, 12:16 AM
Yea they have been building that for years...that would be awsome if the american industry was like the japs....I remember at one time Infiniti was producing all three of the Q45 generations marked as different cars...that was pretty nice.

Ralph
06-18-05, 12:50 AM
http://www.thecarconnection.com/Industry/Daily_Edition/Daily_Edition_Jun_15_2005.S173.A8770.html

Hyundai Expanding in China

Hyundai Motor said it will be exporting its luxury Equus sedans to China as it tries to sell better-quality cars over its EF Sonata and Avante XD currently sold in the country. China is the second export market for Equus after the Middle East.

"After the remarkable upgrade in the J.D. Power's Initial Quality Study (IQS) in April last year, the automaker has been striving to boost its brand image to better compete with big global automakers including Lexus and BMW.

Hyundai Motor, which is currently in talks with Guangzhou Automobile Group to set up a new joint venture in southern China, is to raise its production capacity in China from its current 300,000 units to 600,000 units by 2007 when it completes the construction of its second Chinese plant.

Beijing Hyundai was set up in October 2002 with Beijing Automotive Industry Holding Co.

In 2004, Hyundai Motor and its affiliate Kia Motors accounted for 8.3 percent of China's rapidly-growing passenger vehicle market. Kia Motors also operates a Chinese joint venture with Dongfeng Motor Co."

How's that for ambitious? Check out the production figures.

Playdrv4me
06-18-05, 01:06 AM
Im glad to see your into this Hyundai thing Ralph. I like the fact that alot of us are really into the car industry as a whole and not just one particular brand. When it comes down to it, what keeps me here is the diversity of opinions and the fact that people are alot less close-minded here than they are on other forums. Its not just about Cadillacs to me, but a place where I can come and talk about all kinds of cars, and whatever I fancy at the moment.

By the way, if you can make a car work in the Middle East, you can probably pull it off most anywhere. The Middle Easterners are EXTREMELY picky about their cars, I know in Kuwait it is just an everyday thing to see dusty Ferraris and Lamborghinis just parked on the side of the street, so they know their cars over there, and like to have options.

Stoneage_Caddy
06-18-05, 01:33 AM
Im glad to see your into this Hyundai thing Ralph. I like the fact that alot of us are really into the car industry as a whole and not just one particular brand. When it comes down to it, what keeps me here is the diversity of opinions and the fact that people are alot less close-minded here than they are on other forums. Its not just about Cadillacs to me, but a place where I can come and talk about all kinds of cars, and whatever I fancy at the moment.

By the way, if you can make a car work in the Middle East, you can probably pull it off most anywhere. The Middle Easterners are EXTREMELY picky about their cars, I know in Kuwait it is just an everyday thing to see dusty Ferraris and Lamborghinis just parked on the side of the street, so they know their cars over there, and like to have options.
they also throw them away really fast , guy i dealt with once a week in manama bahrian told me one guy he worked for had a new s class benz ,drove it for a month , car gets a flat tire , he ditches the car and buys a new one rather than have the tire fixed ...

but playdrive your right it is refreshing to talk with others that find the auto industry as a whole fascinateing ...the whole hyumdai thing is amazing considering what they got here with in '86

BeelzeBob
06-18-05, 01:42 AM
I'm impressed that we have a crowd (for the most part) that doesn't have tunnel-vision. I love Cadillac and they'll always be my favorite - just like I'll always be a Yankee fan whether they win or lose. Most people are this way when it comes to sports - but not for automobiles, for some reason.

davesdeville
06-18-05, 06:47 AM
The interior in that Amanti looks better than the one I sat in. The only complaints I have about that one is the dated center console, and the shifter (same as the one I sat in) is uncomfortable. The car, except the engine and the exterior, ok so that leaves us with the interior is about on par with my ten year old ETC.

But guys lets face it. People buy luxury cars so they can get the looks and respect people give to luxury car drivers. The more established and respected a brand, the more people who buy luxury cars for this reason gravitate towards that brand. This is why new brands like Acura and Infiniti aren't always even though of as luxury cars. Maybe if Hyundai can pull that off and make a great product people will buy them.

Msilva954
06-18-05, 08:49 AM
The interior in that Amanti looks better than the one I sat in. The only complaints I have about that one is the dated center console, and the shifter (same as the one I sat in) is uncomfortable. The car, except the engine and the exterior, ok so that leaves us with the interior is about on par with my ten year old ETC.

But guys lets face it. People buy luxury cars so they can get the looks and respect people give to luxury car drivers. The more established and respected a brand, the more people who buy luxury cars for this reason gravitate towards that brand. This is why new brands like Acura and Infiniti aren't always even though of as luxury cars. Maybe if Hyundai can pull that off and make a great product people will buy them.

I gotta agree with you to a point but as far as I see very few brands actually successfully give the buyer that respect.....I mean when most people acutally want luxury they end up buying an Accord or Camry with leather etc...it would compete nicely with these but be so much better value wise..I see a homerun...ONLY if they design them right or hire an outside firm such as ItalDesign or something along those lines..."Italian Designed:Built in America...or Korea"

BeelzeBob
06-18-05, 12:56 PM
Some good points made here.. I think Hyundai is going to end-up competing with Nissan, Honda and Toyota at some point down the road - and the luxury division will compete with Infiniti, Lexus and Acura...

Oh and regarding the dated Hyundai console - that's probably right on target for the market they're looking to satisfy. It's still a step above most domestic interiors. Of course, Cadillac is years ahead of them there and they should be..

Playdrv4me
06-18-05, 02:32 PM
That Amanti interior is nice for what it is. If you took off the badge and only took pictures of the inside, youd be hard pressed to call that a Hyundai or a Kia. That car is definitely a Buick fighter at the very least, it even has LED turn signals in the front!

Ralph
06-18-05, 11:25 PM
Im glad to see your into this Hyundai thing Ralph. I like the fact that alot of us are really into the car industry as a whole and not just one particular brand. When it comes down to it, what keeps me here is the diversity of opinions and the fact that people are alot less close-minded here than they are on other forums. Its not just about Cadillacs to me, but a place where I can come and talk about all kinds of cars, and whatever I fancy at the moment.



Likewise. This has got to be the finest forum on the planet.

Ralph
06-18-05, 11:27 PM
they also throw them away really fast , guy i dealt with once a week in manama bahrian told me one guy he worked for had a new s class benz ,drove it for a month , car gets a flat tire , he ditches the car and buys a new one rather than have the tire fixed ...

but playdrive your right it is refreshing to talk with others that find the auto industry as a whole fascinateing ...the whole hyumdai thing is amazing considering what they got here with in '86

My friend knows people from Saudi Arabia, and I heard that in some cases, when the ashtray is full, the Rolls, Ferrari, etc. gets ditched!! Also, when a lot of families started striking oil, they would ditch a car when the tank ran out of gas.

I can get specifics on these stories if I have to. :shhh:

Ralph
06-18-05, 11:33 PM
What defines a "Luxury car?" Can an Accord with leather really be called a "luxury" car?? Acura?

The one thing about Cadillac and the Cadillac name is that it is know by everyone in the world to be a "luxury" vehicle. It is a reputation that has tradition and is well earned. Even my friend from China, when he learned a couple of years ago I got this new car and he asked what kind, I said "Cadillac," he was completely energized and said "you mean the car millionairres drive!?" LOL! I guess in China, a Cadillac is VERY expensive to own and purchase, etc.

The new Hyundai Luxury division will not have the "well earned tradition" aspect, but people will line up to buy them, I'm sure. They will be something new and exciting, different than the pack, and people seem to want to stand out from the crowd nowadays.

davesdeville
06-19-05, 06:10 AM
My friend knows people from Saudi Arabia, and I heard that in some cases, when the ashtray is full, the Rolls, Ferrari, etc. gets ditched!! Also, when a lot of families started striking oil, they would ditch a car when the tank ran out of gas.

I can get specifics on these stories if I have to. :shhh:

You'd need to. Buying a car is more paperwork and crap than buying gas. And even if you walk in, pay cash and leave with a car it's still going to take longer than a trip to the gas station.

Ralph
06-19-05, 06:14 AM
You'd need to. Buying a car is more paperwork and crap than buying gas. And even if you walk in, pay cash and leave with a car it's still going to take longer than a trip to the gas station.

Do you really think they care about paperwork if they got hundreds of millions to burn? They probably get a employee or assistant to purchase the car for them, etc.

Sure, next time my friend is over, I'll have him mention the details here....but remember, it's a common story over there and even Stoney heard of this like he mentioned...I heard the same thing occurred in Texas some years ago too with Cadillacs, etc...

Estravagent, wasteful??? You bet! But they have the options and dollars to be able to do what they want. Lot of rich families from oil money. Another friend of mine taught in Saudi Arabia some years ago and the thing he mentioned is that EVERYTHING is gold plated!! Cars, cellphones, jewlery, etc. Even second grade students had gold plated cell phones!! Now remember, obviously not everyone will do this there, but it isn't uncommon either.

Get over it Dave, we're POOR!! :crying:

Playdrv4me
06-19-05, 07:58 AM
Yea my brother works in the middle east, and its apparently a GREAT PLACE for used cars, they wont drive anything but the newest and best over there so the used market is very good for those want a used car.

davesdeville
06-20-05, 12:33 AM
Still, why not tell your assistant to go get you some gas instead of getting you another car. If this is true they're retards and probably won't be rich for very long...

And I am poor :( but I still drive a Cadillac that for all anyone else knows could be a 2002.

Ralph
06-21-05, 12:55 AM
Still, why not tell your assistant to go get you some gas instead of getting you another car. If this is true they're retards and probably won't be rich for very long...

And I am poor :( but I still drive a Cadillac that for all anyone else knows could be a 2002.

If you had hundreds of millions of dollars, you'd get bored with the same colored car every week too! :p

It would be nice to have a collection of cars, no doubt, like Mr. Leno, but if I had struck oil money, I too would get bored with one kind of car because I could buy as many as I wanted...hence, having options.

If my assistant EVER drove my ride, I'd have to replace it! :eyebrow:

Playdrv4me
06-21-05, 02:16 PM
If you had hundreds of millions of dollars, you'd get bored with the same colored car every week too! :p

It would be nice to have a collection of cars, no doubt, like Mr. Leno, but if I had struck oil money, I too would get bored with one kind of car because I could buy as many as I wanted...hence, having options.

If my assistant EVER drove my ride, I'd have to replace it! :eyebrow:

Hell I dont have a red cent to my name and I STILL get bored of having the same ride for more than six months! :histeric:

Ralph
06-21-05, 02:25 PM
Hell I dont have a red cent to my name and I STILL get bored of having the same ride for more than six months! :histeric:

LOL!!!

And then some of us are just STUCK driving the same car for years. :shhh: :)

Truth be told, I really don't drive enough to warrent a brand new vehicle, but it would be nice someday.

Maybe I'll buy the new Hyundai luxury car. :shhh: :sneaky:


:hide:

Ralph
06-21-05, 03:45 PM
Oh my!! Look at the Kia Rio concept!!!

http://www.cardesignnews.com/news/2004/041201whats-new/index.html#vw-passat

Elvis
06-21-05, 03:49 PM
Don't make me come up there Ralph. :hitstick:

Ralph
06-21-05, 03:55 PM
Don't make me come up there Ralph. :hitstick:

Be sure to wear your toque ('wool hat' to you) mittens and parka! :yup:

Oh wait. You probably don't own those things. :sneaky: Now if I could just stop losing my mittens, you see I need those little strings attatched so I don't lose them anymore. :o

Elvis
06-21-05, 04:00 PM
I only have to wear a jacket from about Christmas to Valentine's Day. Now that I have heated seats, I may never have to wear one. ;)

davesdeville
06-21-05, 09:31 PM
Heated seats and remote start means I won't be wearing my jacket much this winter either... Ahh the joys of not driving an econobox like what Hyundai is making for the most part now.

Ralph
06-27-05, 01:05 AM
And so it begins.........Kia is invading Europe big time......

http://www.carpages.co.uk/kia/kia-picanto-23-06-05.asp?switched=on&echo=161143868

Playdrv4me
06-27-05, 01:14 AM
Heated seats and remote start means I won't be wearing my jacket much this winter either... Ahh the joys of not driving an econobox like what Hyundai is making for the most part now.


Not for long... and if im not mistaken there are Hyundais with heated seats now... and I think you can add a remote starter to just about anything with a motor and an ignition.

Ralph
06-27-05, 01:48 AM
Not for long... and if im not mistaken there are Hyundais with heated seats now...

Yup, the lowly Sonata does in Canada.......

http://www.ontariohyundai.ca/newcar.html

Playdrv4me
06-27-05, 01:55 AM
Yup, the lowly Sonata does in Canada.......

http://www.ontariohyundai.ca/newcar.html

I dont even know that Id call the Sonata lowly... in loaded up trim its a pretty nice car... looks like a baby Jag almost... maybe better than "THE" baby Jag the X Type!

And I dare say this aint half bad...

http://www.ontariohyundai.ca/images/jdpoweraward.gif

Ralph
06-27-05, 01:58 AM
I dont even know that Id call the Sonata lowly... in loaded up trim its a pretty nice car... looks like a baby Jag almost... maybe better than "THE" baby Jag the X Type!

And I dare say this aint half bad...

http://www.ontariohyundai.ca/images/jdpoweraward.gif

You got me there! I guess "lowly" compared to Dave's '75 Deville. :p

Nice avatar, I don't remember that one.

davesdeville
06-27-05, 03:05 AM
So why are you interested in a 7 series BMW if you can get what you want in a Sonata?

Why do you, Sal, drive a Deville?

Why do you, Ralph, drive a Fleetwood?

Tell me, because these Hyundais can do it all.

Ralph
06-27-05, 03:18 AM
So why are you interested in a 7 series BMW if you can get what you want in a Sonata?

Why do you, Sal, drive a Deville?

Why do you, Ralph, drive a Fleetwood?

Tell me, because these Hyundais can do it all.

Well, I don't think I said I would buy one. ;) (I'll have to check :suspense: ) I couldn't afford the special luxury division Hyundai regardless I'm sure. :hmm:

I think probably Hyundai ALREADY has a loyal following just like Oldsmobile had theirs before they mercilessly killed it off. Realistically, I could be happy with a Honda Civic, so could you probably. :D But many people like a particular type of vehicle, or have a sense of loyality to one particular brand, etc. You have to admit Hyundai does offer a lot for the money now.

It's all about choice. Besides, I keep my car around because of the gold hood ornament. Hyundai doesn't have those yet. ;) Now if I could only remove the little dents Vicky left on the trunk when she sat on there with her high heels and red swimsuit!!! :disappoin

Playdrv4me
06-27-05, 03:23 AM
Well, I don't think I said I would buy one. ;) (I'll have to check :suspense: ) I couldn't afford the special luxury division Hyundai regardless I'm sure. :hmm:

I think probably Hyundai ALREADY has a loyal following just like Oldsmobile had theirs before they mercylessly killed it off. Realistically, I could be happy with a Honda Civic, so could you probably. :D But many people like a particular type of vehicle, or have a sense of loyality to one particular brand, etc.

It's all about choice. Besides, I keep my car around because of the gold hood ornament. Hyundai doesn't have those yet. ;)

Exactly... and my point is that you cant discount Hyundai by stereotyping them as the "econobox" brand anymore. Whether or not I would buy one is a whole other question altogether. But strictly in a sense of talking about value for your dollar, I think the Hyundai's are doing what they need to do.

Truth be told, if I was looking at a NEW car and had a budget of 23000.00, you better believe the Sonata would be in my list of checker-outer's. But so long as I can, Ill probably always buy used... some people refuse to buy used, and so for them its a home run.

Ralph
06-27-05, 03:29 AM
Exactly... and my point is that you cant discount Hyundai by stereotyping them as the "econobox" brand anymore. Whether or not I would buy one is a whole other question altogether. But strictly in a sense of talking about value for your dollar, I think the Hyundai's are doing what they need to do.

Truth be told, if I was looking at a NEW car and had a budget of 23000.00, you better believe the Sonata would be in my list of checker-outer's. But so long as I can, Ill probably always buy used... some people refuse to buy used, and so for them its a home run.

I think I would consider one JUST BECAUSE they matched Toyota in quality and I'm so sick of Toyota to begin with.

And look at the poll now!!! Many more people think they will be a success SINCE people started posting the pics of what they look like.....