: Burning MP3's



Dadillac
06-05-05, 10:23 PM
I am trying to burn MP3's for the first time. I bought the software, and some CD-R's. After converting 7 CD's to MP3, it is showing about 8 hours of music, and about 650 mb. That comes out to about 85 songs. I was under the impression that about 150 songs would fit on a CD-R. I am converting at 192kb. If I drop that to 128kb, would I fit more onto the CD-R? If so, how much more should fit? I would like to have as least amount of MP3's as possible. Thanks for any advice that can be shared.

Don

Eric2203
06-05-05, 10:32 PM
Short answer: yes, dropping the sampling rate will allow you to fit more tracks on a CD.

Long answer: depends on the length of the songs, of course. Depends on the ear of the listener too: do you have a musical ear ? Do you care about the slight loss in quality ?

My opinion: I'd stay at 192. All other considerations aside, at the price CD-R's are, it's worth it. They're so cheap.

Dadillac
06-05-05, 10:38 PM
Eric, thanks for the reply. Do I have a musical ear? Not really. But, I can tell the difference between high quality, and low quality. It is the inbetween that is hard for me to decipher. It is my understanding that standard cd quality is 128kb. The software I bought, recommends, 192kb. I would just rather have 4 MP3's, rather than say, 7 MP3's. It isn't really a big deal, but if I am not really gaining anything at 192kb over 128kb, I would like to change. Is the difference dramatic? Or is it barely noticeable?

Don

Eric2203
06-05-05, 10:56 PM
It's hard to answer. I notice it. But in a car (that's why you're doing this, right ?), with the ambient noises, I probably wouldn't. I'd still use 192 for the times I use the CDs somewhere else though. But that's me.

Then there's the quality of the encoder your use to convert to MP3. They're not all as good as each other.

I don't understand one thing though. You say you'd rather have less MP3s than more on a CD, but you're asking about lowering the quality ? I'm missing something.

128 kbps is not CD quality. Nothing MP3 is CD quality, not even at 320 kbps (MP3 codec max bitrate). MP3 uses a lossy encoding process. As in you lose info. At 320 kbps, you're hard push to notice it, if at all, but it'll never be CD. I think that statement means 128 is good enough for most people. At 128, I can tell the difference between MP3 and CD easily though. More than between 128 and 192 I mean.

All in all, the difference isn't that noticeable, in the grand scheme of things, but it might still be enough to bug you. We're talking small differences here, you have to keep that in mind.

Dadillac
06-05-05, 11:07 PM
Thanks again. Yes, these will be played in the car. I am an unknowledgeable soul when it comes to this sort of thing. I just started listening to cd's about 2 years ago, and I just started doing the MP3 thing about two weeks ago. I do not know what 128kb or 192kb means. I am going off of what I have been told, or read. This may clear up what I have previously written. I am learning as I go. Once I gain the knowledge, I will be alright. Your replies so far have been very helpful. I guess that I will try one at 128kb and see how it turns out. The first one I made did not take. I just tried it in the computer, and it is blank. The second one came out great. So I will try the first one at 128kb, to see the difference between the one that came out good, and this one. If I can tell the difference, I will redo it, and all otherts, at 192. Again, thanks, you are helping more than you may know.

Don

Eric2203
06-05-05, 11:25 PM
You're welcome. I forgot to suggest that: try on your computer without burning at both rates and see if you can hear the difference. And compare to a CD too, while you're at it.

To explain MP3s quickly: converting to MP3 is the process of removing useless info from a music track to make it as small as possible. Example: 2 sounds being played at the same time, one louder than the others. If the encoder thinks you'll never hear the quieter sound, it simply removes it. That's how it makes the files smaller. There is a lot more going on, of course, but that's the general idea. Psycho acoustic models, among other things, are used to determine which info can be removed, and which can't.

Because you lose some info, the process is called lossy. Here's an example of something lossless: I'm pretty sure you've heard of zip files. You compress files into a zip file (useful for e-mailing people several files, or for backup purposes) and you can get them back out of it whenever you want. Because no info is lost, this is lossless. I know zip files have nothing to do with audio, I'm just giving an example. Does that help to understand lossy and lossless ? It's simply to show that no matter the bitrate, an MP3 still has less info than the CD it comes from.

The bitrates: kbps stands for kilobits per seconds. There are 8 bits in a byte. I say that because it brings you into familiar territory (650 MBytes on a CD). The higher the rate, the more bits are used, the more accurate the reproduction is. Still lossy though, as info has been removed. The max for MP3s is 320 kbps.

Some encoders are better than others. Their models are good at estimating what info can be removed. 'LAME' (yeah weird name) is considered the best out there and comes bundled with several ripping/burning programs.

Urgh, I'm rambling. Better stop now...

JC316
06-05-05, 11:53 PM
128KBS is Cd quality. That is what I use.

derrty_deville
06-06-05, 01:50 AM
1100-1200 is cd quality. go to download.coma dn get realplayer if you havent. best free software. i use 96kbs and havent had much of a problem at all. im getting 25-30 cds on 1. dont use the software to burn though. put each cd in its own folder and all those in music folder. then drag and drop onto the blank cd folder and let the computer do the burning

D148L0
06-06-05, 10:47 AM
It's hard to answer. I notice it. But in a car (that's why you're doing this, right ?), with the ambient noises, I probably wouldn't. I'd still use 192 for the times I use the CDs somewhere else though. But that's me.

Then there's the quality of the encoder your use to convert to MP3. They're not all as good as each other.

I don't understand one thing though. You say you'd rather have less MP3s than more on a CD, but you're asking about lowering the quality ? I'm missing something.

128 kbps is not CD quality. Nothing MP3 is CD quality, not even at 320 kbps (MP3 codec max bitrate). MP3 uses a lossy encoding process. As in you lose info. At 320 kbps, you're hard push to notice it, if at all, but it'll never be CD. I think that statement means 128 is good enough for most people. At 128, I can tell the difference between MP3 and CD easily though. More than between 128 and 192 I mean.

All in all, the difference isn't that noticeable, in the grand scheme of things, but it might still be enough to bug you. We're talking small differences here, you have to keep that in mind.
:yeah:

Elvis
06-06-05, 06:08 PM
This is a really good thread with some solid answers and info. I know it's not Caddy related, but we can all benefit from it.

Too bad we don't have an FAQ or something. You wanna sticky this, D148L0? Any ideas?

D148L0
06-06-05, 06:25 PM
This is a really good thread with some solid answers and info. I know it's not Caddy related, but we can all benefit from it.

Too bad we don't have an FAQ or something. You wanna sticky this, D148L0? Any ideas?
Sure! There it goes...

davesdeville
06-08-05, 02:13 AM
128KBS is Cd quality. That is what I use.

Actually 1400 is CD quality. 96 is FM radio, 64 is AM radio


I would just rather have 4 MP3's, rather than say, 7 MP3's.

I don't understand that statement. It's one song per MP3. If you use 128K as opposed to 192, you can fit more or longer MP3s on a CD..

derrty_deville
06-18-05, 06:44 PM
the important thing not covered is that mp3 cds cant be scratched at all. messes up the playability. so take very good care of them or else youll make several of them

soy_chingon13
06-24-05, 01:03 AM
If you download the new version of musicmatch jukebox or go to www.mp3pro.com (http://www.mp3pro.com) there is a new encoder that allows the bitrate to be halved with no drop in quality. 64 kbps is labeled as cd quality and 96 kbps is labeled as cd transparency. It actually works very well, but your cd player or program must be able to support the encoding of mp3pro or else it will play it as if it were a normal mp3 file at 96 kbps, which is pretty low quality. Until it is adopted by other brands, it mainly works well for just using your comp as a jukebox or burning regular audio CDs cuz it will convert back to wav before burning (it saves a lot of space too). As for me, i store all my songs in mp3pro at 96 kbps cuz even if i burn an mp3 for my car stereo that only supports normal mp3, the quality is good enough for me, especially since all i can hear is bass.:cool:

Eric2203
06-26-05, 04:02 AM
I'm not aware of any head unit that supports mp3pro, but I don't know them all. You have to pay to be able to encode at higher bitrates in mp3pro, whereas there's a bazillion free mp3 encoders out there.

soy_chingon13
06-26-05, 03:25 PM
download musicmatch jukebox and you can encode in any mp3pro bitrate you want or even convert between types.

Eric2203
06-26-05, 11:46 PM
Does the free version allow you to use every possible mp3pro bitrate ? Or only 64 ? Because Musicmatch does have a Plus version which costs money.

Eric2203
06-27-05, 03:59 PM
Ah never mind, my wife has it on her computer and you can use all the MP3pro bitrates on the free version. That's good, they're bringing it for free. Shame that it's a closed format that needs licensed though, there won't be many players out there, and that includes car audio.