: Quick question for everyone here... regarding "laughing gas".. N20.. NAAWWSSSSSS!! =)



kimcheejeegae
06-03-05, 01:40 PM
What is everyone's take on NOS on our motors?

It's cheap power in a bottle right?
What is a "safe" amount to use on the LS6?
Is it even a worthwhile "mod"?
Would you recommend it?

I've never been a proponent of NOS. I told a few of my "gearhead" co-workers my plans for the V and they said.. save the money and upgrade the CAM, exhaust, intake, chip and then 100-200 shot NOS.

So.. I turn to you guys...

Thanks!

Barak
06-03-05, 01:52 PM
I think nitrous is great. It is by far the cheapest way to go fast. IMO, nitrous is also safer than other power adders since the air charge is being cooled rather than heated, resulting in less detonation. Nitrous can also be easily concealed unlike other power adders.

From what the Zo6 guys are saying a 100 shot dry or 150 shot wet is safe. Cam, exhaust, intake and chip won't get you close to even a dry shot, but will certainly cost 4 times as much.

drewcruikshank
06-03-05, 04:20 PM
I have heard about the same thing. 100 shot dry or 150 shot wet on the ls6. There are progressive controllers that can pulse the solenoids now and are almost infinitly adjustable as far as when the nitrous is introduced into the motor and at what % of full HP, how quickly it builds to full HP and how high in the RPMS it goes before it shuts off. This is much easier on the driveline, engine internals, everything. There are little devises that warm/cool the bottle to keep constant pressure so they are much easier to tune and less sensitive to the temp in your trunk and how full or not they are. Threre are a zillion variables to making a NOS system work correctly/reliably and IMHO it has nothing to do with the engine it is run through.
Enough of my senseless ramblings. In summation NOS is CHEAP power but it is not EASY. There is much more to a reliable kit then throwing a bottle in the trunk, drilling a hole in the airbox, running lines and hooking up the nozzle/plate.
Go with a maggie. You never have to worry about being lined up next to that E55 and the bottle being empty. Check on the cost to refill a bottle in your area. After 2 years of fill ups you could pay for a Maggie.
Just my $.02

Barak
06-03-05, 05:47 PM
Check on the cost to refill a bottle in your area. After 2 years of fill ups you could pay for a Maggie.

You would have to fill up over 200 times to justify the cost of a maggie. Personally, I found that I had to fill my bottle up once a month. At that rate, it would take me over 16 years before I would make up the difference in cost over a maggie. Besides, a roots type supercharger, like the maggie, is the most abusive type of power adder due to its abrupt boost (which I love by the way) and its poor adiabatic efficiency meaning that it heats the air worse than a turbo, centrifugal or twin screw.

As long as the bottle pressure is kept in check, a window switch is run and you recognize the limits of the fuel system, there is no reason why nitrous cannot be done reliably, especially with a dry shot.

kimcheejeegae
06-03-05, 05:49 PM
You would have to fill up over 200 times to justify the cost of a maggie. Personally, I found that I had to fill my bottle up once a month. At that rate, it would take me over 16 years before I would make up the difference in cost over a maggie. Besides, a roots type supercharger, like the maggie, is the most abusive type of power adder due to its abrupt boost (which I love by the way) and its poor adiabatic efficiency meaning that it heats the air worse than a turbo, centrifugal or twin screw.

As long as the bottle pressure is kept in check, a window switch is run and you recognize the limits of the fuel system, there is no reason why nitrous cannot be done reliably, especially with a dry shot.


Barak... can you give me some more details on your Nitrous set up? Which system and where did you purchase it from? I'm assuming you have the dry shot... any other engine management components needed? Thanks!!

lawfive
06-03-05, 06:32 PM
Or do both...

I know of someone who's working on running dry shots through a maggie, tightly controlling the window, and modifying the fuel/timing tables in that window accordingly. Going dry because he's worried about the effect of running stuff through a blower over time.

Barak
06-03-05, 07:44 PM
Kimchee,

What I was running on my Trans Am and will be running in the V once I get around to installing it will be a 100 shot NOS universal dry kit with a Harlan window switch, Dynotune A/F ratio switch and a NOS thermostatic bottle heater. I ran this setup for thousands of miles on my Trans Am with absolutely no problems at all. I also installed nearly the same setup on my friend's Trans Am, except I added a purge to his. The only thing different I plan to run from the Trans Am to the V is an electronic WOT switch due to the ETC.

IMO, the bottle heater and window switch are absolutely essential. I threw in the A/F ratio switch for added safety. Some people like to run colder plugs and close the gap a bit, but I found this to not be necessary on the LS1. However, the higher compression LS6 may necessitate this. I will soon see.

The bottle heater is important to get the most value out of each bottle since the shot becomes less and less as the volume of nitrous decreases. Most people prefer the pressure switch bottle heater system over the thermostatic style, but I don't think I will bother converting mine.

I like the simplicity of a dry shot and the fact that I don't have to worry about a fuel solenoid malfunctioning or running way too rich when the bottle gets low. As we all know though, for the most power, wet is the way to go.

You can usually find complete kits on ebay cheap with the bottle heater and window switch included for far cheaper than buying everything new. In fact, my entire kit cost me less than $350.

Let me know if you'd like any further details.

kimcheejeegae
06-03-05, 08:05 PM
Kimchee,

What I was running on my Trans Am and will be running in the V once I get around to installing it will be a 100 shot NOS universal dry kit with a Harlan....

Let me know if you'd like any further details.


BARAK.. THANKS! Please keep me/us all updated as you move further along with this... I am very very interested in this set up... heh.. I want to hide the tank or tanks in the spare tire wheel well... ;)

Barak
06-03-05, 08:20 PM
I want to hide the tank or tanks in the spare tire wheel well...

With you on that one Kimchee. The first time I lifted the spare tire well cover I knew I had to put nitrous on it. I will definitely keep you all updated.

wildwhl
06-04-05, 01:32 AM
Or do both...

I know of someone who's working on running dry shots through a maggie, tightly controlling the window, and modifying the fuel/timing tables in that window accordingly. Going dry because he's worried about the effect of running stuff through a blower over time.

What you talkin' bout, Willis :shhh:

Dennisscars
06-04-05, 02:04 AM
say when...

lawfive
06-04-05, 02:21 AM
YEEEE-HAWWWW!!

(BTW: WW, not you. As far as I know.)

wildwhl
06-04-05, 02:26 AM
No, not me...you :D

itbdby
06-09-05, 10:22 AM
What is a window switch?

V-seriesTech
06-09-05, 10:33 AM
What is a window switch?

An RPM activated switch. Runs off "pills" like a shift light would work.

Lets say you have a 2k rpm switch in, so, that means you go full throttle, once you hit 2000 rpm, the nitrous injects(as long as your full throttle, the bottle is open and armed)....

...then you would also have another "pill", for cut off,....lets say 6300rpm...

...so when you hit 6300rpm it would stop spraying nitrous, even though your still full throttle.

V-seriesTech
06-09-05, 10:38 AM
I would recommend a 150 wet shot, all day long on ANY ls series motor.

Dry is fine, it works but, you will NEVER get the same amount of power capability that you would get with the wet.

If you have a magnacharger, I would recommend anything from a 50 shot, to a 100 shot, depending how looney you are. In my case, i'm far from normal, so,...

I have seen slow cars turn to fast cars from nitrous. Bottom line is that it really does work. And unless you have experienced nitrous for yourself first hand, either from rideing in your buddies car, or your own experience in your own car, you really shouldn't knock it.

There really is nothing like it.

V-seriesTech
06-09-05, 10:39 AM
sorry for the posts but,...

People that are affraid of nitrous,...don't be, they're really is alot of ways to make it safe, and last on your motor for a very long time.

V-seriesTech
06-09-05, 10:50 AM
...and please don't call it naws.

It makes my eyes twitch.

wildwhl
06-09-05, 01:00 PM
My first time playing with nitrous was in a '66 Chevelle, 327, and man oh man, that thing was such a blast with the laughing gas...and then there's the '65 'stang from a few years back that was so slow at the track until we sprang for the gas :D

M5eatr
06-09-05, 03:17 PM
I have two very large tanks of N2O, and keep them filled at all times. I think it could get dangerous as I would be going through the stuff quicker. I would have to list the V as a patient.

dannystang
06-09-05, 03:46 PM
I was thinking of 2, 20 pound tanks with bottle heaters, that opening device, Nitrous Express NX system, and purge kit with 2 valves making a little V on the winshield when I purge.

150 shot.

But all that is like 2.5k in parts, which is getting near blower price...after refills etc.

dannystang
06-09-05, 03:49 PM
Hmm now that I think about it...

371/360 tq + 150 = 521hp/510tq.

Crap that is better then the maggie.

V-seriesTech
06-09-05, 04:50 PM
Hmm now that I think about it...

371/360 tq + 150 = 521hp/510tq.

Crap that is better then the maggie.

Don't be scared little bear:histeric:

wildwhl
06-09-05, 05:43 PM
Hmm now that I think about it...

371/360 tq + 150 = 521hp/510tq.

Crap that is better then the maggie.


Are you sure? :sneaky:

HDMLNIUM
06-09-05, 06:44 PM
I was thinking of 2, 20 pound tanks with bottle heaters, that opening device, Nitrous Express NX system, and purge kit with 2 valves making a little V on the winshield when I purge.

150 shot.

But all that is like 2.5k in parts, which is getting near blower price...after refills etc.

I say if you want twin bottles go with a couple of the 12 LB. Carbon fiber ones. So much lighter than the steel bottles, and look a little nicer too..:thumbsup:
Here is a picture of the bottle that was in the back of my Denali, 100 wet shot brought the truck from 14.4's down to 12.7's... A wet kit is the way to go in my opinion if you are going 100 shot or bigger. That is just my opinion as many like dry kits better.:cookoo: :histeric:
Bill
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v466/HDMLNIUM/Nitrousbottle.jpg
http://photobucket.com/albums/v466/HDMLNIUM/th_front-1.jpghttp://photobucket.com/albums/v466/HDMLNIUM/th_engine-yeah.jpghttp://photobucket.com/albums/v466/HDMLNIUM/th_rear-1.jpg
05 CTS-V--- Light Platinum
3M Clear Bra and Tinted windows, LS6 Emblem, Stealth-V z06 fuel rail covers, Lasstss Billet interior pieces
K&N drop in filter, B&B Headers-high flow cats-3" resonator exhaust, UUC shifter, BMR kit
Online Photos http://photobucket.com/albums/v466/HDMLNIUM/

a64pilot
08-08-05, 10:09 AM
Anybody running the Venom 2000? I run it on my LT1 Camaro and love it, very safe system that is infinately adjustable up to 180 shot. uses the stock fuel system to flow the fuel and is closed loop with an O2 sensor and will automatically shut down if it goes too lean. Has three modes the progressive being the most useful IMHO, nitrous is gradually increased as throttle is increased and RPM builds, feels the same as a bored and stroked motor, no sudden hit as in it's drag mode and therefore usable on a road course etc.

DgtalPimp
08-08-05, 12:22 PM
Maybe we should get a poll going on who has used what brands, combos (dry vs. wet), setup (bottle heaters, purge valves, etc).

Thoughts?

alcindus
08-08-05, 12:29 PM
Im Interested In going with spray.:) as I feel Its the cheaper way out

a64pilot
08-08-05, 01:07 PM
Stay with dry IMHO with the plastic manifold, You should have an FPSS = fuel pressure safety switch, turns off the N20 if the fuel pressure drops which would result in an overlean mixture. A window switch which allows the N20 to be on only when the RPM is within a certain "window", keeps N20 flow from continuing after the rev limiter begins to restrict fuel flow which would result in an overlean condition. and a bottle heater to keep the bottle pressure constant. high bottle pressure (hot bottle) lean mixture, low bottle pressure (cold bottle) rich mixture.
The way motors get hurt with N20 is by letting the mixture get too lean.
Or you can get a "computerized" N20 system where the air/fuel ratio and throttle opening and RPM are constantly monitored and forego the FPSS, bottle heater, window switch, WOT switch etc. and enjoy a smooth progressive increase in power and not the all or nothing flow of N20 or stages of flow.

L.Sanchez
08-08-05, 02:47 PM
I will be doing the same soon as Kimchee.

I have a Dry NOS system on my Trans Am. I've been running it with about a 120 shot for thousands of miles with NO problems. Its cheap, simple to install, and works great. It might be different for the LS6, but I know of several running dry 125 shots with no issues. Anything more than that is when you start to push the fuel systems on those cars. I'd assume is the same on the LS6.

I agree with Kimchee in recommending a few things. First off, change the plugs, DEFINITELY get a bottle heater, and have the safety switches on there. I have a 15 pound bottle, and that would usually last me a full night of drag racing on the T/A.

I can't wait to put it on the V. :D

Vee1
08-08-05, 03:06 PM
Wow, that sounds like fun. I never have even heard of this stuff. I want to do some mods. Do you need to do anything else to the car if you add this?

a64pilot
08-08-05, 03:22 PM
Wow, that sounds like fun. I never have even heard of this stuff. I want to do some mods. Do you need to do anything else to the car if you add this?
Fix the wheel hop issue, or stay off the bottle until third gear. I too have run N20 for years with no adverse issues either. If you have a way to ensure the air/fuel ratio dosen't go lean on you you won't hurt the motor. If it goes too lean you will hurt it.
I think N20 was first used by the German Luftwaffe in WWII, it's that old. Used to be the only way to use it safely was to ensure you had an A/F ratio that was on the rich side of best power. That has changed, with today's electronics the A/F ratio can be constantly monitored and adjusted. What I love about it is that I'm real close to stock for the 99% of the driving I do and at the flip of a switch I get another 150 hp to play with.