: Expain the 500 CID engine!!!



carguy16
06-02-05, 10:25 PM
Oh, for those of you that are fortunate to have a 500 CID engine, how fast are these cars? The Dodge Charger was a torquey machine, but were talking about 500 CID here.

Can we get some times, 0-60, quarter mile time, what kind of rear end? Thanks!

Of course, this would probably be around 1970 before they lost all power because of
emmissions.

N0DIH
06-02-05, 10:44 PM
I had heard the 1970 Eldo was the fastest front drive car, even to date. But I can't confirm squat on it.

Anyone??

90Brougham350
06-02-05, 11:11 PM
Makes sense, but then again, what besides the Toranado, has a big block sitting over the drive wheels?

Brian

carguy16
06-03-05, 12:08 AM
i didnt know they had fwd back then in a full size v8 Caddy, jeesh, i though that was a typo on ebay?
I had heard the 1970 Eldo was the fastest front drive car, even to date. But I can't confirm squat on it.

Anyone??

AElayyat
06-03-05, 02:00 AM
My dad's 68 & 70 Coupe DeVilles both have the 472 and this engine is nothing but pure balls when it comes to power. So I'm sure the 500 will have a little more balls.

Night Wolf
06-03-05, 02:10 AM
I can guarantee that a 1970 Eldorado is *NOT* the fastest FWD car to date....

Anyway... power? yeah... lots of it. The decrease in power isn't as much as you think... the new system of measure power was brought into play too... inreality the most powerful/least powerful 500 is only a difference of 50hp or so.

I can say some about the little brother.... the 425.... and the thing in its 26 year old stock form hauls! it really puts a shame to the 307 used in the same car..... these BB Cads are really sweet engines....

davesdeville
06-03-05, 03:54 AM
In a sentance, it's the largest displacement V8 put into a passenger car.

I believe most 70s Devilles will run a 16.something if they're in tip top shape and have gatopower (no cat.) All RWD big block Cads had TH400s and I think a weird 8 7/8" rear around 2.73 ratio. The 78 and previous Eldos used the FWD TH425, I'm not entirely sure about 79-81s.

Newer crap like SRT-4s are faster and even the northstar Caddys are faster than the fastest 500 (which would be the 70 Eldo.) But when it comes to mods, an old fashioned large displacement pushrod motor is the way to go.

The Ape Man
06-03-05, 02:31 PM
The whole idea behind these large displacement engines was to allow for drivability found in 60's cars with pollution equipment and lower compression.
The 472/500/425/368 all are very under taxed. They don't make a lot of soup for their size when compared to some other stuff. The power that they make is suitable for moving a heavy car. One thing that sets the big Cadillac engines apart from the herd is the ability to still deliver reasonable fuel economy when driven with that in mind. These engines were the most modern design V8's for many years. Someone took a look the the Big Chrysler engines and made several improvements. This time it was done with a real intelligent casting which saves a whole lot of weight. How much weight? Enough that you can replace an older Chevy 350 without suspension mods. Normally I'd expect an engine to fly apart after going on such a diet but not here. The big Cadillac engines have less gasketed joints than most and a few features which make service easier. The external oil pump and front mounted distributor are 2 which come to mind. Little things like extra tolerances where you don't need to bother with starter shims are also nice when compared to other Generous Motors products. The extra nickel used in casting alloy provides smart strength.
Now we are able to find these for cheap in junkyards and apply a few changes to really make stuff motivate. What could be better?

Destroyer
06-03-05, 08:36 PM
My dad's 68 & 70 Coupe DeVilles both have the 472 and this engine is nothing but pure balls when it comes to power. So I'm sure the 500 will have a little more balls.
Explanation= Lotsa balls! Yes they have big power but they moved real heavy cars. Stick a high comp 472/500 into an 80's-early 90's FWB and it would move much better.

caddydaddy
06-03-05, 08:54 PM
In a sentance, it's the largest displacement V8 put into a passenger car.

Well, it was up until 2003 when Dodge put the 505 cube V-10 in the new Viper! But up until then, the Cadillac held the claim to biggest engine from 1970-2002!

davesdeville
06-03-05, 09:33 PM
Yeah the Viper V10 sure is a V8. :rolleyes: You want it bigger than a Viper V10 you can bore it 30 over.

dhs
06-03-05, 09:49 PM
Do you guys know how much power did the 1958 cadillac with the 365 had? It's rated at 310hp (335 for the eldorado) "brake" horspower. How does brake hp compare to todays ratings? I can only assume it will be very slow, because it's so much smaller then something like a 500. Any idea how many gears the transmission has? It's supposed to be a convertible, but I'm not sure of the model. I know someone that wants to get rid of one that's been sitting around for some time. How much would I expect to pay to get it running? I wouldn't drive it much, but it would just be an awesome car to have. I can just picture the two in my driveway, 1958 and a 2000.

caddydaddy
06-03-05, 10:47 PM
Yeah the Viper V10 sure is a V8. :rolleyes: You want it bigger than a Viper V10 you can bore it 30 over.

I was talking about the biggest car engine, but yes, it still is the biggest V-8.

My bad!

Night Wolf
06-04-05, 12:19 AM
If the SRT-10 RAM is a production car... then yes :(

I was always proud to say the Viper isn't a production car when someone said that... oh well...

N0DIH
06-04-05, 12:50 AM
The Cad 500 is still a Big Block, where the V10 Dodge is a SMALL BLOCK....

Who has more torque?

Fleet
06-04-05, 02:00 AM
I have more tests, but I found this right away:

Year/model------ Engine-axle ratio- Weight- 0-60 mph- 1/4 mile
'69 CDV--------- 472---- 2.94:1--- 4,780 lbs- 9.4----- 16.5 secs @ 83.8 mph
'70 Eldorado----- 500---- 3.07:1--- 4,895---- 9.6----- 16.3 @ 86.0
'70 Eldorado----- 500---- 3.07:1--- 4,721---- 8.8----- 16.37 @ 85.87
'72 Eldorado----- 500---- 3.07:1--- 5,105---- 9.8----- 17.6 @ 82
'75 CDV--------- 500---- 2.73:1--- 4,950---- 10.9---- 17.66 @ 78.32

From the magazines (in order listed):
Motor Trend, 4/69, Car & Driver, 4/70, Motor Trend, 7/70, Motor Trend, 7/72 and Road Test, 5/75.

davesdeville
06-04-05, 05:01 AM
The 04 SRT-10 Viper has 525 ft.lbs. A high compression 500 should be fairly comparable. In the HP battle the valve float at 4200rpm with new stock spec springs along with the anti-smog cam means the Cad puts up no fight obviously.

So the cars lost a full second from 70 to 75 because of basically 2 factors: catalytic convertors and loss of compression. Soon enough I'll take my 75 to the track as is bone stock, then pull the cat and run again and see exactly how much it impedes flow. Density altitude up here is almost never under 7000ft so I'm sure it will be an 18 or low 19.

The Ape Man
06-04-05, 05:31 PM
My '76 CDV ran a best time of 16.4 at Englishtown back in 1987. The car was weighed right after on their scale. 5075 Lbs without me in it. Car was all stock worn out and had a gutted converter. There was a guy there with a car just like mine except his wasn't a beater. He had the optional 3.15? posi, a cool can, accel ignition and some other crap. His car ran a best time of 16.0X.

AElayyat
06-04-05, 08:14 PM
Explanation= Lotsa balls! Yes they have big power but they moved real heavy cars. Stick a high comp 472/500 into an 80's-early 90's FWB and it would move much better.

That's true. But these motors just make a crazy amount of tourque.

carguy16
06-04-05, 09:38 PM
Check out this car! 450-650 HP They claim, its been bored over, all kinds of stuff:


http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=6146&item=4553610859&rd=1

Fleet
06-04-05, 09:52 PM
My '76 CDV ran a best time of 16.4 at Englishtown back in 1987. The car was weighed right after on their scale. 5075 Lbs without me in it. Car was all stock worn out and had a gutted converter. There was a guy there with a car just like mine except his wasn't a beater. He had the optional 3.15? posi, a cool can, accel ignition and some other crap. His car ran a best time of 16.0X.

True, I think it's very possible to get better times than the old road tests showed.
For one thing, today's tires have better traction.
Also, many (if not most) of the test cars were not really broken in. Quite a few of the cars Motor Trend tested had less than 500 or 1,000 miles. Obviously, a car will record better times with more mileage.

For instance, one test car of Motor Trend's ('64 Sedan de Ville) had only 837 miles at the start of the test (it says that in the spec chart).
Even so, it ran an 8.5 second 0-60 mph and a 16.8 @ 85 1/4 mile.

weister42
06-04-05, 11:00 PM
Didn't the Discovery channel or TLC had a show where two teams each given a 1969 coupe Deville and try to race each other? I remember it involved nitrous and one of the cars smoked the tires for the first 1/8 miles or so:bonkers:

So much torque...

Fleet
06-05-05, 01:07 AM
That would have been fun to see! Good choice using a '69.

I once read in a muscle car magazine about New York street racers who used to race with '69/'70 Cadillac DeVilles and Buick Electras. The would use nitrous oxide and the cars would run in the 11s.

AElayyat
06-05-05, 02:12 AM
Didn't the Discovery channel or TLC had a show where two teams each given a 1969 coupe Deville and try to race each other? I remember it involved nitrous and one of the cars smoked the tires for the first 1/8 miles or so:bonkers:

So much torque...

They were 2 68 Coupe DeVille's. The show is called Full Throttle on History Channel.

I remember that the teams installed a perf. intake manifold, perf. carb, complete exhaust system, I think there was more but I don't remember because it was a while ago when I saw that show. What I do remember is that the cars had some serious balls and made some serious hp and torque.

davesdeville
06-05-05, 04:34 AM
Check out this car! 450-650 HP They claim, its been bored over, all kinds of stuff:


http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=6146&item=4553610859&rd=1

Nice car but quotes like these:

"2 HEMMY MUFFLERS WITH RESIGNATORES"
"NITRO WORKS QUADRO JET ADJUSTABLE KIT SET AT 450 HP, MAX 650 HP"

Have me worried about the seller. He obviously doesn't know what he has or just really sucks at typing.

Night Wolf
06-05-05, 04:03 PM
Nice car but quotes like these:

"2 HEMMY MUFFLERS WITH RESIGNATORES"
"NITRO WORKS QUADRO JET ADJUSTABLE KIT SET AT 450 HP, MAX 650 HP"

Have me worried about the seller. He obviously doesn't know what he has or just really sucks at typing.


either like you said, can't type.... or knows nothing about cars and brought the car to a machine shop and had them rebuild the engine saying "make it go fast"

ShadowLvr400
06-05-05, 09:45 PM
i didnt know they had fwd back then in a full size v8 Caddy, jeesh, i though that was a typo on ebay?



The Eldo was FWD since 67. Toronado since 65 or 66 I think.