Hi,

Gave our college son his grandmother's '94 Deville with the standard 4.9L engine. I drove that vehicle from Maine to Ohio without a problem. After parking at the hotel for a few hours she wouldn't start; waited about 5 minutes and then she started. Since leaving him the Caddy he's had this happen numerious times. Last weekend he couldn't get it to start at all. Yesterday he was able to get AAA to come and tow it to the local Cadillac dealer. When the AAA guy tried starting it, it started! Our son tried starting it in the morning and she just wouldn't catch! The dealership was able to start it right away too! What gives? We had the same problem last summer here at home and took it to my favorite cousin, the mechanic, who did a pressure test on the fuel pump and it was fine. He did change the fuel filter which he said was a mess. The dealership said that they can't find anything if it won't not-start for them. I'm thinking either there was enough crud in the fuel line so that the filter needs to be changed again or maybe a fuel sensor? I've put about $3500 into the Deville over the past year and am tired of spending money on it, but he needs this for at least another 3 months.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Mark
mark@maine.rr.com

Start by checking to see if there are any DTC's stored.
Are these no start conditions with a hot or cold engine?

Sorry for my ignorance, but DTCs?

Diagnostic Trouble Codes

Thanks Ranger. The poor guy has had a tough couple of months. He totalled 2 vehicles (one his fault, the other one not) and now this problem. He just needs to make it through the summer and we'll get him moved back on campus where he doesn't need a car.

Mark

have him push and hold "off" and "warmer" for 4 seconds on the climte controll with the engine running ,afterhe does that have him write down everything that coes up on the display , namely 4 digit codes that begin with "PO" or "IO".

does he ever get a check engine light ?

i wonder if it is a spark issue ....coil getting too hot and gains a open circuit or too much resistance ...or perahs the pickup sensor int he distrubutor

dont feel too bad , i dumped over 5 grand in my 94 ....but i bought it as a poorly mainted heep advertised as a "mechanics speical" ...

She's spent all day Friday at the Caddy dealership and they couldn't find anything as she started right up for them! I called them at noon time and the service manager said that they couldn't find anything. All codes were fine, fuel pump pressure was at 55 which is excellent, the coolent had a slight leak, the A/C needed charging and there was a mouse nest started in the engine compartment, but not wires were chewed! I asked about the security light coming on when trying to start her a second time and BINGO, he thinks that's the problem as she's designed not to start for 10 minutes if someone tries to steal it by hot-wiring or whatever. (it would sometimes take me 5 minutes to restart if she didn't catch the first time) Anyways, my son picked up the car for the weekend and will bring it back on Monday so they can continue to check her out. I'm just so excited thinking about the bill that "I'LL" get!!!

Latest update: Son called at 9:30 this morning. After driving 40 minutes, doint a quick errand, she wouldn't start again. After trying all of the tricks I told him to shift it into neutral......and she started? Any more ideas?

PRNDL swtich ? they do sometimes go bad ....

Ended up being ignition cylinder!

i would have never even considered the cylander

I just hope that's what it actually was as he has a bill for over $400!

This is 'the son.' Too lazy to get my own username. I just drove the car back a couple hours ago and then tried going out just now. Didn't start AGAIN!!! I noticed if you turn the key to run the battery, all the display lights light up as usual and go away EXCEPT for the service engine light. Any other guesses on what it could be? Needless to say one week and $450 later, I'm none to pleased with the service center.

Here's one more update. Go figured it started up again just now, but for teh hour or so it wasn't working, I ran the computer codes. The only current error it came up with was P012, which corresponds to 'no distributor signal.' That generally mean I need to get a whole new distibutor, or you think its something electrical?

If it started in neutral and not in park I agree with Stoneage, PRNDL switch. Try turning the key to the start position. If it does not crank, hold the key in position and with the other hand jiggle the gear shift. If that does not work, then drop it in neutral and see if it cranks. If any of these work, then likely it is a bad or out of adjustment PRNDL switch. CAUTION keep your foot planted firmly on the brake just incase the switch fails and allows a start "in gear".

Turns out the time it started from neutral must have been a freak thing. I've tried doing that the last three times it wouldn't start now as well as everything said in Ranger's last message. Any other thoughts? Its once again not starting.

Mark, mine did that twice and twice it was the starter. I thought it would have been the ignition interlock at the second occurance because for the life of me I would have never thought the starters could die within a year of replacement. Eventually it will stop the intermittant starting at all and just die. The longest I went with it cutting in and out was two months, then nothing. Do not under any circumstances get a cheap starter for the car.. You will regret it! If you have a reputable electrician that can rebuild it for you, that is the best way to go to save money, otherwise, go directly to your nearest GM dealer.

If you have them replace it for you, be forewarned, you will be parting with five large bills..

i dont know much about caddies as i have just bought mine but i had a 92 camaro rs do the same thing and it turned out to be the VATS system. hope this helps

TAKE IT BACK! They did not fix it and charged you for it. That is a no no. They need to refund your $$. I am sorry, I get pretty ticked off, too many shops replace stuff and charge the owners when all they are doing is troubleshooting with your $$.

Get back there and talk to the service manager and demand that it be settled properly.

I would be willing to get Millions if not Billions of $$ get spent every year in this country on repairs that are not needed. If you go to a shop for a problem, and they try to charge you for 3 things that they replaced. Find out which one fixed the problem. That is the one you pay for. You are not paying for mechanics to troubleshoot. Get a FSM, the mechanics should have it. They should be USING it too.

Make sure it isn't the starter itself like Dougs 1994 said, if the start armature (rotor, spining thingy, commutator, take your choice of names) is bad, the starter will become finiky and will act like no power is getting to it, no click no nothing. OR it will be slow when got. When cold, no problems. The armature is a known problem spot on the 5MT/SD250 starter that you have (and all HT4100/4500/4900 aka, 4.9L cars have). Read this thread for more info. http://cadillacforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=42099

Try this when it starts acting up. Get a long breaker bar or wooden stick, anything long and thin, locate the starter through the exhaust manifold, then when it is acting up, have a person put the key to the start position and smack the starter. If it starts, repair the starter (no, don't replace if you can help it, cheaper to fix if you do it yourself). A rebuilt one is $50 here, a new commutator/armature is only $25 and the benefit of having the original starter still in the car.

As for the VATS, the time the "security" light or "PASSKEY" light is on is an indicator to the proper operation of the circuit. Try another key, and ensure the one you are using is clean on the resistor contacts. There is a tolerance and when you are out of tolerance on the resistor contacts, starting is disabled.

...I just drove the car back a couple hours ago and then tried going out just now. Didn't start AGAIN!!! I noticed if you turn the key to run the battery, all the display lights light up as usual and go away EXCEPT for the service engine light. Any other guesses on what it could be? Needless to say one week and $450 later, I'm none to pleased with the service center.

What happens when you try to start it? Does it go "click"? When it does start, does it sound normal or does it sound like the starting is barely turning. You mentioned that they added coolant to the A/C. My wife's '94 deville wouldn't start and I was sure it was the alternator not keeping the battery charged enuf. Tested that and it was OK, as was the battery, but the guy who tested the battery was sure it was the starter -- and that made sense too because at first it wouldn't start when it was warm but would start OK cold, then later it sometimes wouldn't stat at all even when cold. Turns out it was the A/C compressor and its clutch had both gone out. Now I'm driving it with a 63" serpentine belt so I can bypass the compressor, and it starts easily. (I bought a factory service manual on eBay so I can fix the A/C myself, and the seller shipped it 4th class US mail, so I'll be waiting a while for it to get here, Grrrrr.)

Best regards,
Bob

I have the same 94 Deville.. And I've had this problem for over a year.. But it really doesn't bug me..



What it is, if you drive around town, it'll start up every time.. but if you drive 30-40 miles, then dont try to start it for an hour or so.. It wont start, no click, nothing.. If you hold the key in the start position (like your trying to start it, from anywhere from 20-60 seconds, it'll catch and start).. I just learned if I drive far, as soon as I turn the engine off, I restart it fast and it works, then when I get it in later, it'll start right up..



Now, thats the jury-rigged solution. I suppose it could be a starter problem, but I'm not replacing that for a annoyance..

A couple words on this starter talk ...

Starter Number 1 on my car went over the coarse of six months after i bought the car . Common occurance would be driving the car home from work , stoping in a macdonalds for a burger (to go) jumping in the car and it would just "click" no "click click click" just one solid click...flip the key between start and run over and over and the car would finnaly start. One day at the gas station it just flat died. I pushed the car away from the pumps and walked over to the autoparts store to buy a starter . Bought the starter , walked into the gas station and grabbed a bottle of water and splashed it on the starter. The car started and i took it home to swap the damn thing out.

Starter Number 2 was far more interesting , after 6 months it just flat died one morning , no click no nothing , put the key to start and nothing would happen. had 12 volts at the starter and no security light ...got another starter (lifetime warratny luckily) and im fine again ....

if i have to do a 3rd starter im gonna have to ask for my money back and order a brand new GM unit ....at the time number 1 went i had no choice but to get the dicount autoparts speical (there top of the line gold unit tho)....

I had a similar problem with my 1995 Deville. It turned out to be the alternator belt needed replacement. The loose belt caused intermittent charging of the system once parked. Best of luck !!