: Why Did Toyota Succeed With This?



Ralph
05-31-05, 12:56 AM
I just went to see the new Scion xB, and man is it ever ugly. But as the article mentions, they're selling quite well.

The Pontiac Asstek is just as ugly, but got slaughtered on the showroom floor.

Why is that? Jerry Flint just wrote this article with some possible answers, and I'm inclined to agree.


"They are both ugly, butt-ugly, the two ugliest cars around. Car A was more of an SUV and offered all-wheel drive. Car B had a 108-horsepower engine and was noisy at any speed. Car A was sold by 2,800 dealers. Car B by 860. But Car A peaked at 28,000 sales a year. Car B could hit 72,000 this year."


http://www.thecarconnection.com/Industry/Driving_Forces/Flint_A_Tale_of_Two_Butt-Ugly_Cars.S192.A8683.html

Sandy
05-31-05, 08:53 AM
Toyota is so hot right now that they could sell shit & jelly sandwichs at capacity and GM would have trouble selling peanut butter & jelly sandwiches. Which is why we need our government to bring about American Market protectism!
When I bought & paid $45,000 for my 2003 Town Car, I recieved the following comments:-

Next Door Neighbor: "You coulda had a Lexus for THAT much" !
{Maybe ~ but I didn't want a Lexus, stupid}

Neighbor down the street: "For THAT much, I would gone with a Lexus"

My Barber: "I'd take the new Infiniti G35 4WD"

Guy at (my Ex) gas station: "WOW! My sister's Lexus cost less than that"

etc, etc, etc.

ben72227
05-31-05, 09:11 AM
Maybe Ralph, its because nobody wants to deal with Pontiac's reliability issues. And who better than Toyota when it comes to reliability. Besides, the Aztek costs nearly twice as much as the Scion. AND while they are both ugly, the Scion was designed to be "ugly" while the Aztek was just another one of GM's terrible marketing mistakes. Soon the Aztek will replace the Edsel:devil:.

Sandy, I'm dissapointed in you. I can't believe you paid that much for a TOWN CAR. I mean, come on. You talk about protecting GM and then you turn around and buy a Fix Or Repair Daily. You could have gotten a Deville for that much or probably even an SLS...;) I guess what I'm trying to say, is that you should NEVER spend that much on a Lincoln when it could be spent on our beloved Cadillac.:devil:

Playdrv4me
05-31-05, 11:02 AM
Maybe Ralph, its because nobody wants to deal with Pontiac's reliability issues. And who better than Toyota when it comes to reliability. Besides, the Aztek costs nearly twice as much as the Scion. AND while they are both ugly, the Scion was designed to be "ugly" while the Aztek was just another one of GM's terrible marketing mistakes. Soon the Aztek will replace the Edsel:devil:.

Correct. And the Scion's have the added benefit of a much wider "boy racer tuning" market that well... simply doesnt exist for the Aztek. Honda and Nissan have or will have their own variants of the ugly design too. Even still, 72K is not that impressive a sales figure anyway. Ford sells what... 900,000 F150's a year?

BTW... The Town Car actually offers more features for dollar than does the DTS (albeit with less power).

Jesda
05-31-05, 03:51 PM
Scions have tons and tons of options and the xB (xBox as I call it) is super roomy for its class. The TC is loaded for cheap, but looks like a potato. Nissan's Cube and March are a little bit better looking, but still ugly as sin.

I hate them all.

Ralph
05-31-05, 04:02 PM
I guess I agree with you guys, but it's a scary thought when I would take an Element over either of these!!! :eek: However Ian, I think that they are saying it's a hit already because look at the Dodge Charger with only 27,000 orders...and that's a huge hit "indicator."

They just started selling them here and that 4 door was a joke! I don't know what the 2 door version looks like yet but if it's as boxy as this, I'm not too excited over it. :crying: Funny how many cars are getting "square-shaped" again.

When you are standing beside the XB, it feels strange because it's not tall, the wheels look too tiny for the vehicle and while standing at the tailgate, it's like the suspension has sunk or failed because it's so low! I doubt it even has enough power to get up a hill and can you imagine passing a semi on the HW with this thing?

I guess ratings like THIS help....

http://autointell-news.com/News-2005/May-2005/May-2005-4/May-25-05-p5.htm

Ralph
05-31-05, 04:03 PM
Toyota is so hot right now that they could sell shit & jelly sandwichs at capacity and GM would have trouble selling peanut butter & jelly sandwiches. Which is why we need our government to bring about American Market protectism!
When I bought & paid $45,000 for my 2003 Town Car, I recieved the following comments:-

Next Door Neighbor: "You coulda had a Lexus for THAT much" !
{Maybe ~ but I didn't want a Lexus, stupid}

Neighbor down the street: "For THAT much, I would gone with a Lexus"

My Barber: "I'd take the new Infiniti G35 4WD"

Guy at (my Ex) gas station: "WOW! My sister's Lexus cost less than that"

etc, etc, etc.

LOL!!!

Oh my! look at the Ford Fairlane concept!! Look familiar?? If this is the future, I'll take the past!

http://www.cardesignnews.com/autoshows/2005/detroit/highlights/index2.php

LOOK at the Ford SYNus!....

http://www.cardesignnews.com/autoshows/2005/detroit/highlights/index.php

:vomit: :rofl:

GAK!! Is this really the future!?

davesdeville
05-31-05, 06:40 PM
It looks like I'll have to start issuing "You bought a butt-ugly car" tickets in addition to my rice tickets.

Ralph
05-31-05, 07:01 PM
It looks like I'll have to start issuing "You bought a butt-ugly car" tickets in addition to my rice tickets.

LOL! I wonder how long before someone here on our Forum buys one.................I honestly wouldn't know what to say to them. I guess I could mutter "congratulations" through my teeth. :D and nod politely :yup:

ShadowLvr400
05-31-05, 07:34 PM
Honestly, I wouldn't object to a Scion tC. I've been advising my mother to take a look at the xB herself, but the square is useful with dog crates. Essentially, the Scions bring good build quality, a LOT of customization possibilities, direct from factory (keep your warrenty) and very reasonable price. Plus the timing is good. College students are becoming more.... I cant say loaded with stuff, but that's sorta it. Our activites have gotten bigger and more space consuming than ever before, we're not rolling in cash, and we like neat toys. Plus, with the stigma's on mini-vans, the price on SUV's, and the lack of old station wagons, busy wives of middle income families need a reliable, sizable, economical vehicle. The Scions are great for that. And, they're a ton cheaper than the Aztek, and better looking too. Admittedly, I've had some bad mexican diarrhea that looks better than the Aztek, so that's not saying much. But the xB has an odd, goofy, rebellious functionality to it. It's like that ratty old pair of jeans that your g/f kkeeps trying to throw away, but you keep because they're comfortable, and useful for dirty jobs. The Scion is kinda like that, it doesn't look cute or sexy or empowering, but it has this whole "I'm comfortable, a little fun, and I get the job done" feel to it. It'll keep selling quite well I expect.

Sandy
05-31-05, 07:47 PM
Ben, I checked out a deVille DHS before the Town Car. I drove it, as well. I bought the Town Car as it had more luxury touches, more convenience features, a smoother & quieter ride, and was more forgiving over pot holed rotten roads. Furthermore, it had the power close remote control trunk, and the door button keyless entry and I am always out in the driveway, without my car keys, and needing to get into the car for something i.e. tissiue, matches, or something in the trunk. With the Caddy, I'd have to go back up in the house to find the keys. With the touch pad it's 1-2-3 and in you are.
The Caddy was faster in 0 to 50 sprints, and in 0 to 30 as well, but the T.C. does okay. I also appreciate the self raising hood, that once you release the secondary lever at the front the hood self raises. Since I have a slim touch of arthritis in the shoulder, that was a plus too since I am always checking under there. The $4,000 dollar rebate helped, as did the $1,500 owner loyality rebate and the $4,000 off of window sticker - making a total of $9,500 off sticker at a time whewn the Caddies had $1,500 off of sticker - making the T.C. like $ 35,500. Hard to beat, very hard.

Still have my 1993 Sixty Special - now with 9,830 miles :D

http://www.cadillacforums.com/photopost/data/503/26sandy2.jpg

slk230mb
05-31-05, 07:50 PM
Ben, I cecked out a deVille DHS before the Town Car. I drove it, as well. I bought the Town Car as it had more luxury touches, more convenience features, a smoother & quieter ride, and was more forgiving over pot holed rotten roads. Furthermore, it had the power close remote control trunk, and the door button keyless entry and I am always out in the driveway, without my car keys, and needing to get into the car for something i.e. tissiue, matches, or something in the trunk. With the Caddy, I'd have to go back up in the house to find the keys. With the touch pad it's 1-2-3 and in you are.
The Caddy was faster in 0 to 50 sprints, and in 0 to 30 as well, but the T.C. does okay. I also appreciate the self raising hood, that one you release the secondary lever at the front the hood slef raises. Since I have a slim touch or arthritis in the shoulder, that was a plus too since I am always checking under there. The $4,000 dollar rebate helped, as did the $1,500 owner loyality rebate and the $4,000 off of window sticker - making a total of $9,500 off sticker at a time whewn the Caddies had $1,500 off of sticker - making the T.C. like $ 35,500. Hard to beat, very hard.

Still have my 1993 Sixty Special - now with 9,830 miles :D

http://www.cadillacforums.com/photopost/data/503/26sandy2.jpg


Sandy, we need better pics of that beatuty...please... :woohoo:

Ralph
05-31-05, 07:55 PM
Sandy, we need better pics of that beatuty...please... :woohoo:

I agree. I think we should all chip in and get Sandy a digital camera so he can document every inch of it and post it on the forum. :p

I'm curious how clean he keeps his engine.... :eyebrow:

c5 rv
05-31-05, 08:00 PM
GM marketed the Aztek as a mainstream crossover vehicle - between a sedan and a SUV / minivan. However, with looks that were anything but mainstream, it was a easy target. People I know that own one, love it.

Toyota marketed the Scion as a quirky, niche vehicle from a new, niche brand. As it grows out of it's niche, people are respecting the vehicle. Maybe not liking the styling, but respecting the vehicle.

Ralph
05-31-05, 08:03 PM
The Scion is kinda like that, it doesn't look cute or sexy or empowering, but it has this whole "I'm comfortable, a little fun, and I get the job done" feel to it.

So did the Pinto, but I wouldn't want one! :shhh: ;)

I'm not sure how it could be "fun" with no power, etc.

I guess Sandy is right.....Toyota can be succerssful with ANYTHING! :suspense:

ShadowLvr400
05-31-05, 08:30 PM
So did the Pinto, but I wouldn't want one! :shhh: ;)

I'm not sure how it could be "fun" with no power, etc.

I guess Sandy is right.....Toyota can be succerssful with ANYTHING! :suspense:


The thing's light, and willing to be tossed through the turns, plus the fun is in the interior touches. Good audio, plenty of cup holders, etc. Pinto wasn't reliable, or overly functional though.

SilverCTS
05-31-05, 10:28 PM
Ironically, the Aztec sort of looks like a big version of the Prius, which is Toyota's hot selling hybrid. See attached picture of Prius.

Aztec, Scion Xb, Honda Element, Prius...They're all in the same category to me (i.e., the cars that I will never buy category).

Money is a big factor though. Kids can afford a Scion Xb, plus Toyota / Scion took the same approach that VW did.

Everyone thought the VW bug was ugly as hell, but they were all over the place in the 60s and early 70s.

In terms of the Aztec, GM just laid an egg. They didn't (and can't) position it like a VW bug. It costs too much.

The Prius appeals to a lot people because it's a hybrid--so it sells even though it is just as ugly as an Aztec.

Ralph
05-31-05, 10:33 PM
You guys got some good points there!

Just saw the Prius this week and I actually don't mind how they look. But for $35,000 they are just too expensive! You can get a fully loaded Impala LS for that. I think the window sticker said 71 mph CITY!!! Still, you'd have to drive it a very long time to make it pay for itself in fuel economy IMO. The annual fuel cost was estimated at something like $550, but I'm not sure how many miles that was based on per year. Comparing, the Civic Hybrid here is $26,000, and a better deal, but compared to the regular Civic at $20,000 it's not.

illumina
06-01-05, 12:04 AM
Wasn't the Pinto the car that when ass-ended, it blew up? Now that's what I'm talking about!

fast66
06-01-05, 01:51 AM
Whenever I see one of those new Scion Toyota's I always noticed that an Asian is driving. I would say around 98%. Maybe thats their market and it is working. Anyone agree?

davesdeville
06-01-05, 04:52 AM
I think the window sticker said 71 mph CITY!!!

I didn't think you were supposed to go 71 miles per hour in the city. :) Prii (is that how you say more than one Prius?) get around 43-45mpg in normal driving according to consumerguide. They're rated 60/51. If it weren't butt-ugly, foreign, SLOW (I'm talking slower than my friends POS Saturn,) and overpriced I might consider one.

Ralph
06-01-05, 05:53 AM
I didn't think you were supposed to go 71 miles per hour in the city. :) Prii (is that how you say more than one Prius?) get around 43-45mpg in normal driving according to consumerguide. They're rated 60/51. If it weren't butt-ugly, foreign, SLOW (I'm talking slower than my friends POS Saturn,) and overpriced I might consider one.

Oops, my bad. :(

I could have swore the mpG sticker said higher for city, etc. Maybe the stickers are overly optimistic from lab conditions or something..because even the regular Civic gets around 45 mpg highway, or so I seem to recall from looking at those stickers.

Jesda
06-01-05, 07:11 AM
The Prius needs better highway acceleration if Toyota wants to put more on the roads here in middle America. On Sunday some turd in a Prius came up a ramp, merged in slowly, and nearly caused three accidents from his inability to accelerate.

Randy_W
06-01-05, 07:46 AM
The Aztek was aimed at what was percieved in the late 1990's as a growing 'outdoors' market. The primary buyer was suppose to be 25-35 year old camper, surfer, mountain biker, etc. It had awd option, the console was a cooler with self draining, slide out cargo system, rear power outlet and stereo controls as well as a tent that attached around the rear hatch opening. The funky styling was to appeal to the Subaru type owner (they do tend towards wierd and ugly cars). Who knew the outdoors movement would only last a few years and everyone go back to playing video games? Anyway, it worked out that more Azteks were sold as base models to older people that liked the room and mileage as well as the ease of entry and exit. My wife considered buying a 2001 when they first came out, but went with a swb Montana Sport instead. That's what the Aztek is based on and they drive very similarly, the Aztek handles better. Powertrain wise they are very good vehicles but we couldn't get past the ugly!

ben72227
06-01-05, 09:11 AM
Well, hopefully they will get rid of it when they get rid of the Bonneville this year. Lord knows that Pontiac needs an extreme makeover. They would do just fine with the G6, G8, Solstice, GTO, and MAYBE the Vibe. Everything else is either an "overlap" vehicle that is sold by Chevy, Saturn, Buick, etc. or its just a POS:lildevil:

Jesda
06-01-05, 09:15 AM
Who knew the outdoors movement would only last a few years and everyone go back to playing video games? Anyway, it worked out that more Azteks were sold as base models to older people that liked the room and mileage as well as the ease of entry and exit. My wife considered buying a 2001 when they first came out, but went with a swb Montana Sport instead. That's what the Aztek is based on and they drive very similarly, the Aztek handles better. Powertrain wise they are very good vehicles but we couldn't get past the ugly!

Sounds like the Honda Element.

Playdrv4me
06-01-05, 09:20 AM
Interesting bit of Trivia on the Aztek. It was so poorly perceived by the public in its first year of production, that it was one of the few vehicles to ever have a substantial exterior freshening only 1 year after its introduction, and that made it barely palatable.

Who knows? Maybe first year Azteks will be the next "modern classics".

Ralph
06-01-05, 06:11 PM
Well, hopefully they will get rid of it when they get rid of the Bonneville this year.

Do they have a full-size replacement for it?

I haven't been "keeping up" on Pontiac too much lately.

ben72227
06-01-05, 09:23 PM
The G8 will come out in '07 and will replace the bonneville and the grand prix. Personally, I don't see the need for another G car since the G6 should be able to cover everything OR let them get an Impala. We don't need this kind of overlapping...

Ralph
06-01-05, 10:23 PM
We don't need this kind of overlapping...

Thanks for the Pontiac info.

There may be a little overlapping (it seems) but at least it keeps people in jobs. A strong economy is important and remember with Olds, GM thought loyal Olds owners would turn to Buick, Pontiac or Cadillac and it NEVER happened.

I believe it's better to appear and remain strong, rather than weak with fewer models and divisions. GM made it work in the past, it can again.

Knock Saturn all you want, but it is starting to produce some interesting, attractive cars that will compete with the Japanese.

SilverCTS
06-01-05, 10:53 PM
I didn't think you were supposed to go 71 miles per hour in the city. :) Prii (is that how you say more than one Prius?) get around 43-45mpg in normal driving according to consumerguide. They're rated 60/51. If it weren't butt-ugly, foreign, SLOW (I'm talking slower than my friends POS Saturn,) and overpriced I might consider one.

Hopefully, oil supplies won't become a huge issue, or we might all end up driving a crappy hybrid gas/electric car that putts around with only 85hp.

Personally, I'm hoping the 07 CTS-V pumps out about 500hp, because 400hp is really good, but not good enough.

Ralph
06-02-05, 02:20 AM
Personally, I'm hoping the 07 CTS-V pumps out about 500hp, because 400hp is really good, but not good enough.

This might be one reason for future "short oil supplies." :shhh: :) Or the upcoming V10 Escalade, etc...

There is still huge amounts of untaped oil reserves, but I fear the environmentalists who influence government MORE than huge powerful vehicles and their effects. I would love a V10 Escalade. :yup:

If there is one thing I wish the U.S. did, it would be to not use so much sulfers in the gasoline. We have tougher refining laws and our gas burns cleaner, and a higher octane. Sulfer is supposedly a cheap additive for fuel and it helps create acid rain and pollution, etc. I heard down east (Toronto) there is a lot of acid rain from sulphers emmitted from the U.S. and it just "blows" over. (or so I heard)

Playdrv4me
06-02-05, 02:37 AM
Thats correct. The sulfur content of our fuel is also the reason a few manufacturers (Jag/BMW primarily) had so much trouble with the Nicasil bores in their engines during certain periods of time. It wasnt so much a faulty engine design, as the sulfuric content of the fuel in the US.

Ralph
06-02-05, 02:39 AM
Thats correct. The sulfur content of our fuel is also the reason a few manufacturers (Jag/BMW primarily) had so much trouble with the Nicasil bores in their engines during certain periods of time. It wasnt so much a faulty engine design, as the sulfuric content of the fuel in the US.

Oh ya, I forgot about that Ian. That Jag mechanic mentioned something about that (Realmcenter?) I've never heard of that problem here with a Jag or BMW...

davesdeville
06-02-05, 03:51 AM
Hopefully, oil supplies won't become a huge issue, or we might all end up driving a crappy hybrid gas/electric car that putts around with only 85hp.

Personally, I'm hoping the 07 CTS-V pumps out about 500hp, because 400hp is really good, but not good enough.

I'll be running my 75 Deville on propane by then and there should be plenty of that around at decent prices for years to come. Or I'll get a bike, 85hp and 2 wheels doesn't sound too bad. :lildevil:

HotRodSaint
06-02-05, 09:49 AM
This article makes me wonder why some people choose a career as an automotive writer in the first place. Comparing a $30k fastback mini-van to a $15K hatchbox (my new word, you like it?). If you must ask, then you are obviously clueless about the auto industry.

I eagerly await his next article on the equally perplexing question of why the Mustang outsells the Corvette. :rolleyes:

Ralph
06-03-05, 11:42 PM
If you read the article, Flint is not comparing the Aztek to the Scion as competing models, but rather the larger corporate strategies for planning and introducing new models.

Compare the Aztek to other vehicles in its class, and it was still a FAILURE.

Scion, compared to its competition, is a SUCCESS.

What other great automotive writers are out there who have the guts to be honest and offer constructive criticism? I keep noticing all the great writers that keep being quoted here ... That's sarcasm, by the way.

Flint has 40 years' experience he knows the business. He remains the best IMO and I shall continue to reference him as I deem fit.

majax
06-04-05, 03:59 AM
Next Door Neighbor: "You coulda had a Lexus for THAT much" !
{Maybe ~ but I didn't want a Lexus, stupid}

Neighbor down the street: "For THAT much, I would gone with a Lexus"

My Barber: "I'd take the new Infiniti G35 4WD"

Guy at (my Ex) gas station: "WOW! My sister's Lexus cost less than that"

etc, etc, etc.

That's incredibly rude. All I have to deal with around here is the few rice rocket people, but I figure they would never buy a car in that price range. If you lived around here people would compliment your car and expecially me. Unless your going around braggin, then I would not know why anyone would say that stuff ;) ;)

The Scions are very ugly. I think a lot of people who buy them don't know a ton about cars. Of course Toyota is reliable and they got that right.

SilverCTS
06-04-05, 10:01 AM
This article makes me wonder why some people choose a career as an automotive writer in the first place. Comparing a $30k fastback mini-van to a $15K hatchbox (my new word, you like it?). If you must ask, then you are obviously clueless about the auto industry.

I eagerly await his next article on the equally perplexing question of why the Mustang outsells the Corvette. :rolleyes:

Yep. Presumably, this writer has a boss or editor, and he or she thought it was ok to publish. Therefore, the editor must be clueless as well.

HotRodSaint
06-04-05, 10:09 AM
If you read the article...

I read it before you posted it, I read it in your post and I just read it again. I still find nothing new or insightful.

He thinks that with better marketing, the Aztec would have been successful with young people. He thinks this is reason why the xB has been successful.

So how many supercharged Aztec's have been displayed at the SEMA show? How many ground effects kits are available for the Aztec? How many have been lowered, chopped and fitted with plus-size wheels? How many have appeared in 'enthusiast' magazines with a hottie shaking her booty in front of the hood?

GM didn't fail in the marketing of the Aztec, they failed when they asked the designers to design a 'crossover' to be built on a mini-van platform.

Personally, I think within those lame engineering confines (that person should have been fired on the spot), the design team did the best job they could.

I have thought that from the beginning, when I discussed the design with a Subaru designer during the Aztec's introduction. Yes, it's ugly. But exactly how do you make it look any better when it rides on a mini-van chassis?

So I disgree completely, that GM's problem has been marketing.

I also disgree that introducing the G6 in all it's variants at once, woulod have produced any better results. The Beetle, Mini and PT Cruiser are a few recent examples of successful product launches, that didn't require their convertable to be available from day one.

At the end of the article, after wasting my time, he seems to almo9st accidently stumble into the meat and potatoes of his article, as well as the real solution for GM's trouble. ...if GM could ever get the products right...

That would have been a more relevant, truthful and interesting article. One worthy of reposting over and over and over...

HotRodSaint
06-04-05, 10:11 AM
Yep. Presumably, this writer has a boss or editor, and he or she thought it was ok to publish. Therefore, the editor must be clueless as well.

What can you write about GM, that hasn't already been written?

But they still have to crank out columns, week after week.

So I guess that's the nature of the beast.

DeVillish
06-04-05, 11:48 AM
In japan little boxy cars are allll over the place. They sell so well there because they are small, get good mpg and are very roomy for the size. And for the tuner people, i've seen some turbo charged little cars that just fly! 200hp is all you need in a car that is like 1000kg.

Ralph
06-04-05, 08:50 PM
I read it before you posted it, I read it in your post and I just read it again. I still find nothing new or insightful.

He thinks that with better marketing, the Aztec would have been successful with young people. He thinks this is reason why the xB has been successful.

So how many supercharged Aztec's have been displayed at the SEMA show? How many ground effects kits are available for the Aztec? How many have been lowered, chopped and fitted with plus-size wheels? How many have appeared in 'enthusiast' magazines with a hottie shaking her booty in front of the hood?

GM didn't fail in the marketing of the Aztec, they failed when they asked the designers to design a 'crossover' to be built on a mini-van platform.

Personally, I think within those lame engineering confines (that person should have been fired on the spot), the design team did the best job they could.

I have thought that from the beginning, when I discussed the design with a Subaru designer during the Aztec's introduction. Yes, it's ugly. But exactly how do you make it look any better when it rides on a mini-van chassis?

So I disgree completely, that GM's problem has been marketing.

I also disgree that introducing the G6 in all it's variants at once, woulod have produced any better results. The Beetle, Mini and PT Cruiser are a few recent examples of successful product launches, that didn't require their convertable to be available from day one.

At the end of the article, after wasting my time, he seems to almo9st accidently stumble into the meat and potatoes of his article, as well as the real solution for GM's trouble. ...if GM could ever get the products right...

That would have been a more relevant, truthful and interesting article. One worthy of reposting over and over and over...

It's good you mentioned the SEMA show and how many modded Azteks are out there, the fact that you really don't see many is a good example of GM failing in their marketing campaign. That's the sort of thing that would help build a good market image for a niche car. However, in the Aztek's case that would not make much of a difference, due to it's ugliness.

But the whole point of this article is really why one company can make a success of an ugly product and the other can't because the Scion is just as ugly as the Aztek. But a lot of people obviously think it's cool.

This is the heart of Flint's article. It was Toyota that has helped convince people that Scion is hip. Unless you think the XB REALLY is cool?

HotRodSaint
06-04-05, 11:04 PM
It's good you mentioned the SEMA show and how many modded Azteks are out there, the fact that you really don't see many is a good example of GM failing in their marketing campaign.

If an aftermarket company won't make money selling parts, then they won't make the part no matter how much GM spends marketing the car.

The key to GM's success isn't marketing their dogs better, it's in not making the dogs in the first place. Until they learn that, no amount of marketing dollars will turn them around.

davesdeville
06-05-05, 05:22 AM
All in all the people who will buy an ass ugly car are usually young and don't have $30 grand for an Aztek, but do have enough for that damn Scion. That's my take on it.

HotRodSaint
06-05-05, 10:54 AM
All in all the people who will buy an ass ugly car are usually young and don't have $30 grand for an Aztek, but do have enough for that damn Scion. That's my take on it.

Price certainly plays a part in the decisions of what young people buy, that's why I think it's silly to compare the Aztec to the Scion.

BUT, the Suzuki Aero is cheaper. So is the Toyota Echo that the author referenced. And so is the Kia Rio.

So being cheap and Asian, does not mean success either. Ford has found a sweet spot with the Ford Focus. And for the price, it's not a bad car.

What the Scion (and the Focus and Civic) offer, is a good cheap blank canvas for youthful people to modify it into their own.

I don't find the Scion ugly or attractive, I find it plain and quirky. But if you add some bigger wheels, and change out the front bumper with a more aggressive one, you've completely changed the character of the vehicle.

I do not see any possibilities to change the character of the Aztec. It will always be a fast-back mini-van, UNLESS, you chop and channel it. But who wants to spend another 25g's modifying a 30g mini-van?

I think the ability to easily and cheaply modify the looks of 300c, is one of the main reasons that it is so widely popular. Not many car's today, hell no other car in it's price range, can be fitted with 22's and look good.

It's funny that focusing on 'design' is now back in vogue on Detroit. It should never have left. These aren't toasters, which today have much more style than many of Detroits car's. These are personal fashion statements.

We wear our car's, whenever we go out. Personally, I would rather wear a Hanes t-shirt (Scion xB), than a K-Mart jogging suit (Aztec).

That said, I got a compliment the other day on my car. Then he asked if I was in the mafia. And there is no better dressed person in Little Italy, than an Italian mob boss! :coolgleam