: Future Classic Cars?



Jesda
05-30-05, 02:24 AM
Did some reading on classic cars, as I've been pondering a hobby (like the Q isn't enough) and was wondering, what modern cars will become classics? I'm trying to exclude overt exotics from the list, and looking more at conventional vehicles that are less obvious.

Here's some I think will reach collector status thirty or fourty years from now:

1984-87 Turbo Regal/Grand National (according to Hemmings) -- Already a classic. Undriven showroom-like examples sell for over $40k.

1994-96 Roadmaster Estate Wagon (according to Hemmings) -- The last great American station wagon. (RWD, big engine, full size.)

1988- 91 Reatta (according to Hemmings) -- The last Buick luxury sports coupe, and incredibly rare as it accounted for 1% of Buick sales in its time. With the cancellation of the Velite, should remain that way. Tons of technology for its time, including a touch screen and built-in cell phone.

1995-99 Riviera (according to Hemmings) --The pinnacle of Buick styling and design and the last of its kind. The end of a richly historic nameplate that goes back decades.

1995-1996 Chevy Impala SS -- Still appreciating in value, sough after by enthusiasts looking for a full-size RWD sport sedan.

2002 Cadillac Eldorado -- The pinnacle of Cadillac's international styling theme and the end of a 50 year old model, marking the end of an era for Cadillac.

1990-1998 Mazda Miata -- Lotus Elan copycat. The only 'British' roadster that was practical to own, because it was made in Japan. Oozing with character and easy on the eyes. Inspiration for the Z3, Z4, SLK, Solstice, and every other roadster sold in America.

Nissan 300ZX TT

2003 Nissan 350Z -- Stirs emotion and has historical significance as the car that marks Nissan's big turnaround. Plus, there's that whole Z-car legacy.

1993-2002 Mazda RX-7 -- The beginning and end of Mazda's foray into semi-exotic sports cars. Exciting styling, somewhat exotic impracticality, with remarkable performance make it desirable.

1991-1995 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme Convertible -- Rare and very stylish. The last topless Olds and one of the nicest from GM.

2003 Chevy Camaro -- Only if this really is the LAST Camaro. Anniversary edition could appreciate in value 25 years from now.

2003 Mercury Marauder -- Low production, high desirability. Much like the Impala SS. Heritage nameplate on a truly American RWD V8 sport sedan.

1993-1997 Lincoln Mark VIII -- Low production, high desirability. Like the Riviera, its the pinnacle of Lincoln style and RWD V8 performance, and may never return again.

Acura NSX

2005 Chevy SSR -- New 400HP V8 and the fact that its a sales flop will make it rare and sought after years from now.

2005 Pontiac GTO -- New 400HP V8 and the fact that its a sales flop will make it rare and sought after years from now.

The last BMW 7-series. -- Universally loved, fairly easy to own. The new one looks like dog****. Rare enough to be fairly exclusive.

Cadillac Allante -- Bodies designed and made in Italy, shipped to the US. Rare, but questionable styling and build quality in early years makes them iffy as classics. Resale values are appreciating anyway.

Pontiac 6000STE -- Will take time to become collectible, as theyre a bit ugly and share body panels with the Chevy Celebrity. However, AWD, lots of positive press, and some unique styling cues help it stand out.

1990 Oldsmobile Toronado/Trofeo -- A somewhat historic name and clean looks. Tons of technology for its time, including a touch screen and built-in cell phone. Deemed a future classic by collector magazines.

2002 Oldsmobile Aurora -- The pinnacle of Oldsmobile styling, technology, and performance before the brand came to an end. Northstar-based V8, excellent build quality, and a slick body make it desirable. Deemed a future classic by collector magazines.

Mercedes-Benz 500E -- The strength of DaimlerBenz and the soul of Porsche. The ultimate stealth/sleeper sedan.

Possible classics:


The last BMW 5-series. -- Universally loved, fairly easy to own. The new one looks like dog****.

Ford Taurus SHO before 1996 -- Clean styling, rare, but lacking in visual appeal.

Lexus SC400 -- Dull in appearance but high on refinement, performance, and desirability. Could be forgotten or could be coveted years from now.

1990 Toyota MR2 Turbo

Acura Legend -- Highly regarded by enthusiasts and good at what they do. Outside of people in "the know", they lack long-term desirability.

1990 Infiniti M30 Convertible -- Hard to find in good condition and interesting enough to be desirable. It seems unlikely that they'll appreciate in value.

Not classics:

1990 Infiniti Q45 -- It has cultural significance as a vehicle that marked the end of American dominance of the luxury auto market (the Cadillac killer, along with Lexus). However, most Americans dont feel comfortable celebrating that fact. Its not a point of pride that stirs positive emotions and good vibes.

Nissan 240SX -- It may be difficult in the future to find an unabused example that hasn't been tarted up, making clean original versions desirable for anyone looking to relive their youth. In stock form or as vehicles to covet and keep garaged, they don't stir emotion.

1992-1995 Mazda 929 -- Could have been, for its sleek and unique interior and exterior styling as well as unique luxury features (solar panel in the sunroof), but wont be due to the absence of a luxury nameplate and sales so poor that most people don't know it exists. Even current owners don't see them as desirable. Mazda, at the time, greatly ignored it and let it sit stale in showrooms.

Wildcards:

Trucks and SUVs. A handful could become collectible, like the Harley version of the F150, the Ford Lightning, the Ram SRT-10, the Blackwood, and a small handful of others. People now, unlike years past, drive and treat them like cars. The GMC Syclone and Typhoon are already appreciating in value.

In general, its difficult for Japanese cars to become classics, as they tend to be emotionally empty and lacking in character. The anglocentric collector culture quietly regards Japan as 'the enemy', and probably always will.

Boombotz
05-30-05, 02:33 AM
The P/T Cruiser didn't make your list. Only kidding

How about the Crossfire and the 300C.

davesdeville
05-30-05, 02:35 AM
I'd say 1992-2002 Eldo rather than just 02, because I own one and will keep it barring any serious accidents for many decades, so it better be classic by the time I'm 50 or 60.

Sandy
05-30-05, 10:23 AM
There are too many flaws in the list to take it very seriously. Among several the Lincoln Mark VIII ended in 1998, not 1997.

Jesda
05-30-05, 11:02 AM
There are too many flaws in the list to take it very seriously. Among several the Lincoln Mark VIII ended in 1998, not 1997.

http://mamahen.blogware.com/comic.jpg

Jesda
05-30-05, 11:03 AM
I'm waiting to say anything on the Chrysler 300 because while it is a big hit that made a big splash, so was the Dodge Aries.

HotRodSaint
05-30-05, 11:15 AM
As for anglocentric collectors, these are the old guys who are buying muscle cars to capture their high school memories.

The generation that will collect car's in 20 years, will have mainly have experienced 'ricer's', and thus that will be the high school memory they are chasing after.

If you have a big garage, I'd buy some of the late '80's import drag car's and keep them in as raced condition. These guys are much like the early drag racers, and it took about 40 years for their accomplishments to be appreciated.

While styling and rarity do play an important aspect in price today, the rarer and IMHO, the much better looking '67 Cougars should be outpacing '67 Mustangs in value. BUT, few people wanted Cougars then and that is showing in their value today.

So I'd venture to guess that while rare, many of the car's listed above will increase marginally in value. And some of that increase will be due to inflation, and not their market desirability.

Performance, styling and low production, in that order, will be the largest factor in a car's future value.

With that, now is the time to buy a Gen I Viper GTS and a BMW M Coupe. I also agree that the last Gen RX-7 in unmolested condition, should start to rise in value, as will the last Gen Supra. For a boulevard cruiser, the outgoing T-Bird would be a good used car investment as would the Plymouth Prowler.

Stoneage_Caddy
05-30-05, 11:20 AM
I agree the reatta will go up in value , only if they get the right publicity , this car is at a moment in time that people are forgetting it ...

the un-mentioned oddities of the 80s

Ford:
84-86 SVO Mustang
ASC Mclaren , most noteably the mercury capri based cars
Taurus SHO (Only the 5 speed cars)
87 Mustang GT
83 Mustang GT
79 Mustang Pace car
Merkur XR4Ti ***
Thunderbird Turbo coupe (87-88)
Thunderbird Super Coupe ( was 95? the last year?)
Mark VII Diesel (ok prob none around anymore but what a freak) ***

Chrysler :
Viper
GLHS (Charger Based)
GLH (Omni Based)
84 Caravan
1993 Daytona IROC Turbo 5 speed
87 Lebaron Indy Pace car ***
1982.5 (1983) Chrysler Lebaron Convertible , Particularly the "Town and Country"
82 Imperial Sinatra Edition - Stands the same chance as the 87 Lebaron ***
TC By Maserati

GM
84 Corvette
86 Corvette Convertible
1990 ,1995 Vette ZR-1
91-92 GMC sy-ty
84 Fiero Indy Pace car
88 Fiero GT (last of the breed , lotus suspension)
91 Reatta Convertible
89 Grand Prix Turbo (Mclaren)
89 Trans Am Turbo 25th , Indy Pace Car
93 Allante (or the 92 Allante Indy Pace Car)
87 GNX
86 Monte Aerocoupe / Grand Prix 2+2 "Bubble Back"
Camaro IROC
1993 Camaro Indy Pace car
90 Lumina APV ***
96 Impala SS
92 Custom Cruiser Wagon***

*** Denotes , the very freakish and very remote possibility of addaed value

Sandy
05-30-05, 01:09 PM
I like Stones list better, as I ownED one on that list & I own 1 on that list. :p
(By the way, the 1981 Sinatra Edition Imp will be worth more, than the 1982, because it was available with a power glass moonroof, which was dropped from the 1982/1983 cars, should you find an '81 WITH the roof !! Also the likeness of Frank's signature was on the dash, omitted from the 1982.)

However, their reputatiuon is horrid. The electronic fuel system designed by TRW and made by TRW was faulty, and all 12,396 car were recalled, but not before something like 85% of owners had been left stranded somewhere ! Chrysler (using TRWs $$$$) had to retrofit each car $3,500.00 cost) with the Cordoba 2-Bbl. Carb Set-up. TRW also made the digital dash, that would go blank (black) and lose it's memory. NONE of the speedos accumulated miles on these cars is correct! To the left of the mileage readout, should you see a flashing tiny little star, it indicates a replaced odometer !! Beware!

Yes, I had one. Had nothing but trouble with it, and NEVER owned a car that I got so many compliments on! Once converted back to Cordoba-Status they ran well. But, it took 2 months to do it, so you were car-less for 2 months ! 12,396 people went thru it !!

Stoneage_Caddy
05-30-05, 01:48 PM
which is really too bad ...out of all the 78-84 bustle back cars the Imps had the best look ...the seville may have been first but chrysler did it beatter than them and the continential

the fuel injection issues is the second reason i picked the imperial , 20 years from now one that stillhas the fuel injection and the tape of ol blue eyes hideing in the glove box will be worht quite a bit ...

im willing to bet while all were recalled a few never made it to the dealer for retrofitt

Randy_W
05-30-05, 02:28 PM
As for anglocentric collectors, these are the old guys who are buying muscle cars to capture their high school memories.

The generation that will collect car's in 20 years, will have mainly have experienced 'ricer's', and thus that will be the high school memory they are chasing after.

If you have a big garage, I'd buy some of the late '80's import drag car's and keep them in as raced condition. These guys are much like the early drag racers, and it took about 40 years for their accomplishments to be appreciated.

While styling and rarity do play an important aspect in price today, the rarer and IMHO, the much better looking '67 Cougars should be outpacing '67 Mustangs in value. BUT, few people wanted Cougars then and that is showing in their value today.

So I'd venture to guess that while rare, many of the car's listed above will increase marginally in value. And some of that increase will be due to inflation, and not their market desirability.

Performance, styling and low production, in that order, will be the largest factor in a car's future value.

With that, now is the time to buy a Gen I Viper GTS and a BMW M Coupe. I also agree that the last Gen RX-7 in unmolested condition, should start to rise in value, as will the last Gen Supra. For a boulevard cruiser, the outgoing T-Bird would be a good used car investment as would the Plymouth Prowler.


AnĚgloĚcenĚtric http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/edu/reference/dictionary/audio_key2.gif (http://xml.education.yahoo.com/reference/dictionary/pronounce?id=A0304550&path=prons/A0304550.wav) (http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/edu/ref/ahd/s/abreve.gifnghttp://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/edu/ref/ahd/s/lprime.gifglhttp://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/edu/ref/ahd/s/omacr.gif-shttp://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/edu/ref/ahd/s/ebreve.gifnhttp://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/edu/ref/ahd/s/prime.giftrhttp://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/edu/ref/ahd/s/ibreve.gifk) KEY (http://xml.education.yahoo.com/reference/dictionary/pronunciation_key)

ADJECTIVE:

Centered or focused on England or the English, especially in relation to historical or cultural influence.So I don't see where the term applies to us "old guys", who collect uniquely American cars.
Now as for your other ascertation, Ricers will never be collectable in any numbers, there is no underlying love connection like the one us "old guys" have with our post WW II - 1980 cars. It was a very special time in our country, not just for cars. The Beatles still sell more records than any 1990's group, Jimmy Buffett sells out faster and makes more money than any group touring today. WE have a connection with our place in time, I don't see that today. When we "old guys" are gone, car collecting will return the ecclectic sometimes eccentric hobby it was before the 1970's. ;)

Jesda
05-30-05, 02:43 PM
I dont know what a 'Sinatra Edition Imp' is. You guys can have and adore them if you like. :)

A proper question to ask is what would I, a 23 year old male, find desirable 30 years from now? If I wanted to relive a part of my youth or a period of time, what would I seek? Probably something I wanted but couldn't have when I was young, like a C5 or C6 Vette. Maybe a Cadillac CTS-V. Perhaps a Viper or Crossfire.

A big problem for 80s cars, with few exceptions, is that the auto industry went through a period of building crappy, forgettable, ugly, gutless cars. And the 90s was mostly reliable, forgettable, bland, gutless cars.
Few will stand out as icons compared to decades past. Values changed, the culture changed, and not much will be 'covetable'. Most Hondas, Chevys, Fords, and Toyotas that dominate the roads now are the equivalent of coathangers -- forgettable, durable, and easy to replace when damaged. Devices without inspiration. No one's going to want a Taurus, Malibu, Intrepid, or Accord as an iconic symbol of their prime.

Inspiration -> Desire -> Monetary Value

Stoneage_Caddy
05-30-05, 03:03 PM
everything in my list is something this 24 year old has wanted .....my tops will always be the 88 fiero , 84 fiero indy , 85.5 Mustang SVO , ASC Mcalren , 86 vette 89 ZR-1 and 92 Typhoon....

Im so close to the fiero dream it isnt funny

Boombotz
05-30-05, 03:48 PM
How about the Delorean's. I think that is a icon of the 80's. Probly not many left out there.

RocketFast321
05-30-05, 04:28 PM
The Delorean and fiero should be on the list. Maybe the 91 olds 98 turning sedan should be on the list.

HotRodSaint
05-30-05, 04:30 PM
How about the Delorean's. I think that is a icon of the 80's. Probly not many left out there.

The lack of performance has kept it's value low, in relation to other car's of it's era.

Jesda
05-30-05, 04:33 PM
The Delorean is less an icon as a sports car (heavy, slow, halfass build quality), and more a symbol of popular culture. Its an official representative of the 1980s.

90Brougham350
05-30-05, 04:55 PM
The ZR-1 and the 89 Trans-Am will be definite collectors, without a doubt. As to collecting ricers in 30 years, what's the point of collecting something that isn't cool now and still won't be in 2035.

Brian

HotRodSaint
05-30-05, 04:57 PM
Jimmy Buffett sells out faster and makes more money than any group touring today.

You might want to check this link, #14 Jimmy Buffett (http://www.pollstar.com/news/top25.pl), you "Parrot Head"! :lildevil:

My generation, is better represented than yours!! :thumbsup:

Jesda
05-30-05, 05:23 PM
Celine Dion at #2. I'd like to note that female babyboomers make up most of her fanbase!

Kinda neat to see Rod Stewart still kicking.

HotRodSaint
05-30-05, 05:45 PM
Celine Dion at #2. I'd like to note that female babyboomers make up most of her fanbase!

And they can only see her if they travel to Las Vegas.

Sandy
05-30-05, 05:54 PM
Jesda, to answer your question, from 1981 thru 1983 Chrysler marketed an ultra luxury coupe, similiar to an Eldorado or Mark V. For it, they went back into their corporate history and used the name Imperial. They hired Frank Sinatra to hype the car, and gave him the1st one off the line. Notable, because it was the only car Frank ever lent his name to, or advertised. They brought out a Frank Sinatra Edition at mid-year (1981) and continued it thru 1982. It came in a very beautiful and special light blue glow paint color, that they called Glaciar Blue, and a leather carrying case of like 150 of his songs, among which was a new single called "It's time for Love" which played upon a TV comercial in which he sang; "It's time for Imperial" ~

Stoney; I own 3 ascMcLarens, one Mercury Capri version and 2 Ford Mustang Editions, and founded the ascMcLaren International Registry, and web site. They are the 3 newest in the world. My 1986 with 646 miles, & the 2 1990s with 2,033 & 7,327 miles. The 2,033 mile car is the corporate poster car.

Boombotz
05-30-05, 06:01 PM
This is a 82' Chrysler Imperial. Frank Sinatra Edition:


http://www.imperialclub.com/Yr/1981/Factory/FrankSinatra/Convertible/82topup.jpg


http://www.imperialclub.com/Yr/1981/Factory/FrankSinatra/Convertible/82side.jpg

Playdrv4me
05-30-05, 06:11 PM
It has been said many times that short of vehicles like the Ferrari Enzo, modern cars really dont have what it takes to drive classic status like some of TODAYs classics do... i.e. Mercedes Benz Gullwings, Corvette Stingrays, Olds 442s and etc. That era in history has basically passed for now because cars are no longer made that way and we are over 100 years into the production of the modern motor vehicle now so most cars these days are simply transportation machines.

If anything from the past 20 years has a chance in my opinion:

Grand National GNX... Goes without saying

1980's Mercedes Benz S Class

1970's and 80's Mercedes Benz SL Class

1995-2001 BMW 7 Series

Cadillac Allante, year debateable, but most likely the most collectible will be the last 300 or so which contained substantial enhancements for the 1994 model year which was never officially produced after cutbacks. These are rare cars, difficult to differentiate from their standard 1993 counterparts and tough to find in non-abused shape. Most people that have one one of these may not even know how rare it is.

Buick Reatta... eh... doubt it, but possible.

davesdeville
05-30-05, 06:36 PM
90 Lumina APV ***
92 Custom Cruiser Wagon***

*** Denotes , the very freakish and very remote possibility of addaed value

I can see the Custom Cruiser since that's... well Kinda cool. But I'd bet $50 not a single Lumina APV will be in servicable conditon in 30 years, especially not a 90.

Sandy
05-30-05, 06:43 PM
If you watched the January Barrett-Jackson auction in Scottsdale on cable, you'd have seen that there were few foreign cars bringing the excitement & money that the American cars did. Mainly 'Vettes, GTOs 442s, Gran Sports, 'Cudas & Challengers and other 1960 & 1970 HiPo cars. I do agree on the Buick GNX. Sadly the 300 Allantes never got the noteriety they should have. 149 in the blue with the new blue roof and 151 in the Teal Green. They are out there, now 4-Sale and bringing "regular" 1993 Allante $$$.

My Take:

In the 60s, 70s & 80s young kids were into cars. Beginning with the 90s I feel the computer stole away larger percentages of them. Today, very few are "into" cars, other than the "Fast & Furious" crowd, and we all know what cars they like. (Anything NOT American!!) ~ So, the increased DISinterest in cars will continue for the next generation.
Today a Honda Civic, riced out, then college & marriage & a baby and the wife wants an Acura MDX or Lexus something, and the hubby gets a Toyota Tundra....so see, the car love faded away......

Ralph
05-30-05, 07:24 PM
Kinda neat to see Rod Stewart still kicking.


Ya but he's so mellow now. They all mellow out, look at Jon Bon Jovi, etc. Rod had a kick ass band in the late '70's and most of the 80's.

I'm going to add to your list ANY Cadillac from the '90's era with fins and skirts like mine. Also, a coin collector once told me that often the collectable "objects" in the future will sometimes be the most common. ie. like Gremlins NOW and wood panaled station wagons from the '70's NOW, these were all too common but no one really took care of them.

So what are the most common vehicles on the road today?? That might provide part of the answer....who knows.

Yup, musclecar prices have peaked again now just like back in 1988.

Playdrv4me
05-30-05, 07:32 PM
If you watched the January Barrett-Jackson auction in Scottsdale on cable, you'd have seen that there were few foreign cars bringing the excitement & money that the American cars did. Mainly 'Vettes, GTOs 442s, Gran Sports, 'Cudas & Challengers and other 1960 & 1970 HiPo cars. I do agree on the Buick GNX. Sadly the 300 Allantes never got the noteriety they should have. 149 in the blue with the new blue roof and 151 in the Teal Green. They are out there, now 4-Sale and bringing "regular" 1993 Allante $$$.

My Take:

In the 60s, 70s & 80s young kids were into cars. Beginning with the 90s I feel the computer stole away larger percentages of them. Today, very few are "into" cars, other than the "Fast & Furious" crowd, and we all know what cars they like. (Anything NOT American!!) ~ So, the increased DISinterest in cars will continue for the next generation.
Today a Honda Civic, riced out, then college & marriage & a baby and the wife wants an Acura MDX or Lexus something, and the hubby gets a Toyota Tundra....so see, the car love faded away......

Yup, Im just not really too interested in the most modern cars anymore. I like my truck, the Escalade and the new STS from a looks and techie standpoint, but they dont move me like the older Cadillacs and the old BMWs and Merc's I like so much. This is why once I complete the sale of my truck Im going to go back to one of those modern "classics" I like so much. Very few vehicles in production right now do it for me.

Stoneage_Caddy
05-30-05, 07:48 PM
This is a 82' Chrysler Imperial. Frank Sinatra Edition:


http://www.imperialclub.com/Yr/1981/Factory/FrankSinatra/Convertible/82topup.jpg


http://www.imperialclub.com/Yr/1981/Factory/FrankSinatra/Convertible/82side.jpg
the two ive seen were boath hardtops , and as far asi know chrysler didnt make convertibles till around 1982.5 on the little front drive lebaron ...what is the one you posted ? a one off like the eldo convertibles of a few years ago ?

yup i knew you had those ASC cars ....you and i talked about them to great lengths

Boombotz
05-30-05, 08:46 PM
:wtf: That is a 82' Chrysler Imperial. Frank Sinatra Edition

Ralph
05-30-05, 09:38 PM
Here is a future classic or collectable. The upcoming Daytona Charger...

Sandy
05-30-05, 11:36 PM
That's a custom made aftermarket Imperial F.S. convert, made in Florida by a conversion company that also did Cordobas & Miradas.

Stoneage_Caddy
06-01-05, 01:43 PM
I can see the Custom Cruiser since that's... well Kinda cool. But I'd bet $50 not a single Lumina APV will be in servicable conditon in 30 years, especially not a 90.
I dunno ..i really belive the lumina APV might ....provided like you say they are still able to run

Its very strange , look at the weird stuff from 40-50 years ago ...i mean stout scrabs were very unsusual , and are worth tons now albiet they were made in limited numbers ....

all plastic and that dust buster styleing , it was a failure from day one , like another GM van based freak: the aztek

but i also think the Aztek will be desirable too one day , exactly the same way edsels are today ...

neither will fetch the money say a 87 GNX or a 03 Mach 1 mustang would ...or 03 Cobra...but ....

thats one i forgot to mention

IRS Mustang Cobras will be HUGE one day as it looks like mustangs wont get IRS for a very long time ...seems ford figured out how to make the old solid axel work again ....