: Diagnostic codes and running rough



jguelcher
10-24-03, 08:11 PM
Hi everyone. My first post here. Great info within these pages!!

Having a problem finding out what a few Diagnostic Codes mean, and was hoping you could help. The car started running rough around 97k miles. It's now at 98k. For awhile, I was financially forced into using low grade gas, and I thought that might have been the problem. Now I'm not so sure.

The codes in question:

PC 0300 history
PC 1380 history
PC 1694 current

TC 0027 current
TC 0073 current
TC 0083 current

Any help you could provide would be appreciated. Thanks!

elwesso
10-24-03, 08:26 PM
Could you tell us what car you have......

Running on anything OTHER THAN PREMIUM will result in things that your describing.....

I suggest to decipher these codes to go into the lounge and go into CADILLAC HELPFUL LINKS, or whatever its called, im sure youll be able to find it there......

jguelcher
10-24-03, 09:17 PM
Duh! I can't believe I didn't list what car I have. Long, long day. It's a 1996 Deville. I think I pretty much searched the whole forums for codes and found a lot. But I came up empty on these.

jguelcher
10-24-03, 09:25 PM
The reason I started getting worried, was because the "Service Engine Soon" light came on today.

As far as using premium gas is concerned, how much will I now have to run through it before it starts running nice again? Also, are there any specific additives I should try using?

Thanks again.

elwesso
10-25-03, 01:53 AM
Go to the best gas station you can find (chevron with techron, amoco ultimate), or one you really trust, and fill up with a near empty tank..... You should feel it almost instantaneously...... (well, kinda..... It might take a few gallons to really get going).......

Additves........ OTC additives are a waste of money..... If you want an additive, you need BG44k...... It works really good, and it the strongest, and most concentrated stuff on the market today...! Although, for best results, I would recommend having an injector cleaning (pressurized fuel rail flush)...... It will probably cost 50-100, but im sure the car will run noticeably smoother.......

Additives to the fuel dont really do much to clean dirty injectors, but keep clean injectors clean...... Anything that you COULD add to the fuel to clean the injectors would be so concentrated that even a SLIGHT error in concentration and you could be looking at 8 new injectors!!!!! This is why such a product isnt available.....

Get some good gas in there, and then let us know........

Clear the codes, and then check them again in a few days to see if they come back.....!

jguelcher
11-06-03, 09:04 PM
Ok, did what you said and cleared the codes. I have now run over 2 full tanks of premium gas through and it hasn't improved at all. The current codes are:

PC 1380
PC 1599
TC 0027, 0073, 0083

I have looked everywhere and could not find the meaning of those codes. Any help you could provide would be appreciated. Thanks!

elwesso
11-06-03, 11:54 PM
P1380 - Misfire Detected - Rough Road Data Not Available
P1599 - Engine Stall or Near Stall Detected
B0073 - Supplemental Deployment Loop #1 Resistance Low

Couldnt find 27 or 83.... Sorry.....

If you could sorta give me as many details as you could, it would really help..... Like when it happends, how bad it is, where you can feel it, etc.......

jguelcher
11-07-03, 12:49 AM
Details. Hrm.

Definitely the worst when accelerating. Seems to mostly smooth out once speed has leveled out. Not always, but most of the time. If I really baby it during acceleration, the "service engine soon" light eventually goes out. However, going over a steep bridge, or accelerating too fast will bring it back on. If it's already on, those same things will get it blinking.

When idling at a light, it misses. Once, a couple days ago in a drive through it stalled. Never did that before or since. Extremely rough if I try to accelerate quickly. Absolutely does not have good pick up.

That's about all I can give you, really. In the past, if I used crappy gas for one fill up, I would get these symptoms but on a much lesser scale. That's why I thought it might have been the cheap fuel I put in for a few fill ups. But ever since my first post I've been using premium gas without any improvement.

elwesso
11-07-03, 09:42 AM
I think a plug is fouled or your injectors are clogged..... Obviously with your codes there is a cylinder thats misfiring.....

At this point, id go ahead and replace the plugs and wires.... And if that doesnt work, then your injectors are probably messed up..... At your cadillac dealer they hook it up to a machine and will restore your injectors to as new condition (called a pressurized fuel rail flush)..... They should have a test they can do to determine if any injectors are bad and need replaced.... Id also recommend changing the fuel filter <asap>, its cheap and a good DIY......

jguelcher
11-09-03, 11:37 AM
Ok, thanks. I'll try all that and get back to you. Is the fuel filter tough to locate?

powerglide
12-21-03, 07:38 PM
Ok, thanks. I'll try all that and get back to you. Is the fuel filter tough to locate?
Hello

I got the same problems, can you tell me what you found out?

Thanks

onecad
12-24-03, 11:30 AM
I had very similar problems when I bought my car. I think the best place to start would be with plugs and wires cause you can do it yourself..that solved my problem. Then go for your fuel rail flush, and injector cleaning afterwards like elwesso suggested.
good-luck

zonie77
12-24-03, 12:06 PM
With the age and mileage you really need to put in a new set of plugs. If that doesn't fix it put in plug wires.

powerglide
12-24-03, 01:02 PM
With the age and mileage you really need to put in a new set of plugs. If that doesn't fix it put in plug wires.
Thanks.....although 71K miles doesn;t sound like too many miles but its been 6 years i guess...

wondering if its worth going to the dealer and plop dowwn 90 bucks for labor to have them pinpoint the problem.....before spending $ on plugs, wires, rail flush etc....you think?

powerglide
12-24-03, 01:05 PM
I had very similar problems when I bought my car. I think the best place to start would be with plugs and wires cause you can do it yourself..that solved my problem. Then go for your fuel rail flush, and injector cleaning afterwards like elwesso suggested.
good-luck
was yours a 97-99 deville too?
(wondering if its a curb side fix....I have read it is and some have said not)
....changing the plug and wires that is. (like 60 for the plugs 100 for the wires, some lock thread and perhaps a torque wrench....any other costs?)

zonie77
12-24-03, 01:26 PM
I don't have much done at the dealer. I try to do as much as possible myself. This goes back to not having things done right when I paid to have it done, so I learn to do as much as I can myself.
Even 71K can give you a bad plug or wire. If you do it yourself you know it was done and as you get more experience you'll know it was done right!
Plugs are only $30. Get AC Delco and whatever are specified. Get antisieze and dielectric grease too.
You need a basic tool set. You really don't need a torque wrench.
The coil pack blocks some of the read plugs so you need to take the 3 bolts out that hold it but you only need to move it out of the way.
Take out the old plugs and take a look at them as you remove them. Is the tip covered by an oily buildup? How worn is the electrode? If they all look similar that's good but I would expect at least 1 to be dirty or more worn than the others.
Put some antisieze on the threads of the new plugs (a small amount) and use another plug to work it into the threads.
Smear a small amount of dielectric grease either around the top of the plug where the plug wire goes or into the opening of the plug wire. Look at how the plug wire goes down on the plug before you install all of them so you know where the grease goes.
Don't overtighten the plugs. They should be tight but not a lot of pressure. ( If you want to buy a torque wrench it isn't a bad idea to get an idea how tight you really are tightening things. )

This is pretty basic and a great place to start learning about your car.

I'd start with the plugs first but look at the wires to see if there is any obvious damage. Feel the wires, checking for cracks or burned spots.

powerglide
12-24-03, 02:12 PM
I don't have much done at the dealer. I try to do as much as possible myself. This goes back to not having things done right when I paid to have it done, so I learn to do as much as I can myself.
Even 71K can give you a bad plug or wire. If you do it yourself you know it was done and as you get more experience you'll know it was done right!
Plugs are only $30. Get AC Delco and whatever are specified. Get antisieze and dielectric grease too.
You need a basic tool set. You really don't need a torque wrench.
The coil pack blocks some of the read plugs so you need to take the 3 bolts out that hold it but you only need to move it out of the way.
Take out the old plugs and take a look at them as you remove them. Is the tip covered by an oily buildup? How worn is the electrode? If they all look similar that's good but I would expect at least 1 to be dirty or more worn than the others.
Put some antisieze on the threads of the new plugs (a small amount) and use another plug to work it into the threads.
Smear a small amount of dielectric grease either around the top of the plug where the plug wire goes or into the opening of the plug wire. Look at how the plug wire goes down on the plug before you install all of them so you know where the grease goes.
Don't overtighten the plugs. They should be tight but not a lot of pressure. ( If you want to buy a torque wrench it isn't a bad idea to get an idea how tight you really are tightening things. )

This is pretty basic and a great place to start learning about your car.

I'd start with the plugs first but look at the wires to see if there is any obvious damage. Feel the wires, checking for cracks or burned spots.


Great!
Looks like a good DIY (although I am gonna have to do it curbside manhattan)

I'll give it a shot over the holidays (I guess dealers are closed anyways)

First stop, get the hood open (some a-hole crashed into my car and ran...so getting the hood open (then closed) will be first!

Yeah, I hear you on the not getting things get done right. I have been to three different dealers each charging about 100 per hour and they have all been useless and sucked.....each time, I left with a new problem that didn't exist when I got there.....

Thanks for you help!

zonie77
12-24-03, 02:30 PM
Learning how to do it yourself is the best. Even if you have to take it in occassionally you'll be a lot more knowledgeable. That doesn't make the mechanic do any better repair though! Just helps you cut through the BS.

I used to live in Chicago and didn't always have a garage so I've done quite a bit of work by the sidewalk.
This is something you can do a couple of plugs at a time if you have to and you only need a few tools.

jguelcher
03-09-04, 07:59 PM
Well, it took a few months, but I got the plugs changed by someone else. It was a horrible ride by the time I could afford to get it taken care of.

However, the plugs were only part of the problem :(

It turns out that they were the original plugs, and the original plug wires. So, although new plugs made a difference, it took the wires to get it back to working perfectly.

I really wanted to do the damn plugs myself, but no matter what I tried, I couldn't get them out. The wires were easy.

Thanks for all the feedback.

Now...off to post an a/c question...

elwesso
03-09-04, 08:01 PM
Why couldnt you get hte plugs????

jguelcher
03-09-04, 08:08 PM
I couldn't remove the old plugs because they were frozen. I'm sure that maybe I could have used an air wrench or something, but I'm not set up for that. I was terrified that I would break them off inside the block if I put too much pressure on them. And let me tell you, I was already putting all 300 pounds of me into it :-)