I've read on gminisidenews that a lot of caddy vehicles are getting a massive power bump and one of them happens to be the sts-v and xlr-v. They will be using a LSx based v10 instead of s/c northstar.
http://forums.gminsidenews.com/showthread.php?threadid=13450

I've read on gminisidenews that a lot of caddy vehicles are getting a massive power bump and one of them happens to be the sts-v and xlr-v. They will be using a LSx based v10 instead of s/c northstar.
http://forums.gminsidenews.com/showthread.php?threadid=13450

as much as I would love to see a 500hp N/A motor in the STS-V and XLR-Vs I highly doubt that GM will do it, they just dumped tons of money into the 4.4L SC northstar. GM / Caddy is too much like Sony in this regard, suffering from the "Not invented here" problem. It seems they loath the fact that Caddy is using a Corvette engine. Look at the aftermarket engine covers, they don't say Cadillac on it, they say Corvette. Why do you think that is?

Of course any undergraduate finance major will tell you that GM's sunk cost of the SC 4.4L Northstart should NEVER impact their future decisions if the market is demanding something else. If the majority do not want the 4.4L (I am in this camp) then GM should focus on how to put an engine such as the LS2 or LS7 into the STS-V and XLR-V.

This SHOULD be a $0 additional investment since the SAE STS had a supercharged LS2 making 502HP already installed and working.

I am waiting for the STS-V and XLR-V launches to see the performance numbers. Going on power / weight ratios, 440HP doesn't seem to cut it in getting the STS-V and XLR-V to its closest competitors.

GM just put a lot of money into the supercharged northstars, they're not going to immediately change engines, especially since plenty of people like the engine. More people will appreciate a SC 4.4 over any pushrod engine, especially a 90* V10 IMO. Just turn up the boost enough for a STS-V to beat an M5 and call it good for a few years. If they have to do something, they can use the XV12.

GM just put a lot of money into the supercharged northstars, they're not going to immediately change engines, especially since plenty of people like the engine. More people will appreciate a SC 4.4 over any pushrod engine, especially a 90* V10 IMO. Just turn up the boost enough for a STS-V to beat an M5 and call it good for a few years. If they have to do something, they can use the XV12.

I think the mental thinking of GM and Caddy will start to shift towards making Automobiles that are better than the competition and not just good enough. Thats why I think they will put the SC LS2 engine in the CTS, STS and XLR.

i agree with dave. if they are thinking V10, its a ways off. these are the same guys that talk about RWD cars for buick, checvy, etc. being just around the corner in 2009 :cookoo:

GM just put a lot of money into the supercharged northstars, they're not going to immediately change engines, especially since plenty of people like the engine. More people will appreciate a SC 4.4 over any pushrod engine, especially a 90* V10 IMO. Just turn up the boost enough for a STS-V to beat an M5 and call it good for a few years. If they have to do something, they can use the XV12.

If they needed to reduce the bore size from 4.6L to 4.4L wouldn't the extra boost tear the engine apart?

I think it would be a mistake if GM introduces an engine that gets a bad media and public response then decides to change the engine. Plus it would burn a lot of the initial buyers.

hey guys!!!!!!!!! is it true that General Motors just killed the promised LS V10 in favor of a supercharged 6.0Litre V8? and is it also true that the next SS-pickup will get 500bhp version of that engine?if any of this is true,then that will leave an opportunity for the Z06 to wear a blower in future power plants.maybe the CTS-V will finally get it's 500bhp wish.

The CTS -V already compares favorably with the V10 M5. With an extra 40hp, and less weight, the XLR-V should be a screamer. The STS-V should be in the same league as the M5.

The M5 has a real high redline, but it needs all of it to make 350lb/ft of torque. The N* will be making that on idle.

I think the mental thinking of GM and Caddy will start to shift towards making Automobiles that are better than the competition and not just good enough. Thats why I think they will put the SC LS2 engine in the CTS, STS and XLR.

The thing is, I don't care how smooth and powerful you make an LS2 (or any other pushrod motor,) it's still a Chevy motor. Putting a Chevy motor in your top of the line cars in your top of the line brand is NOT gonna fly with premium luxury buyers. They (we) want refined power, we want to have an exclusive engine like the northstar, not some run of the mill Chevy. Too many of you don't realise this...


If they needed to reduce the bore size from 4.6L to 4.4L wouldn't the extra boost tear the engine apart?

I don't know. I'm sure they can beat the M and AMG series with the STS if they try though. If they can't do it with the SC 4.4, offer the 7.5L XV12 as an option. An XV12 pushing at least 500hp (we know it can hit 750 in the Cien concept, but 550 or so would be more realistic) would put the BMW v10 to shame and the AMG motors wouldn't come close. XV12s would be essentially untouchable.

The thing is, I don't care how smooth and powerful you make an LS2 (or any other pushrod motor,) it's still a Chevy motor. Putting a Chevy motor in your top of the line cars in your top of the line brand is NOT gonna fly with premium luxury buyers. They (we) want refined power, we want to have an exclusive engine like the northstar, not some run of the mill Chevy. Too many of you don't realise this...




I don't know. I'm sure they can beat the M and AMG series with the STS if they try though. If they can't do it with the SC 4.4, offer the 7.5L XV12 as an option. An XV12 pushing at least 500hp (we know it can hit 750 in the Cien concept, but 550 or so would be more realistic) would put the BMW v10 to shame and the AMG motors wouldn't come close. XV12s would be essentially untouchable.
sl65 is putting out 600+hp and 700+lbft(torque limited due to automatic transmission limitations)

The thing is, I don't care how smooth and powerful you make an LS2 (or any other pushrod motor,) it's still a Chevy motor. Putting a Chevy motor in your top of the line cars in your top of the line brand is NOT gonna fly with premium luxury buyers. They (we) want refined power, we want to have an exclusive engine like the northstar, not some run of the mill Chevy. Too many of you don't realise this...


I don't really care who makes the motor, but any V10 would definately get me in the dealership

Afreet1, if that's the case you don't represent many premium buyers. But wouldn't an XV12 northstar get you in the dealership even faster?

Devil_Concours, the STS-V's competition is M5 at 500hp and E55 at 469hp. A DTS-V or even ULS-V if made today would be the one to deal with S65 AMG at 604hp. The XV12 in the Cien made 750hp, so I think an XV12 could top the S65 AMG. If we still have a problem, make a S/C XV12, if we still have a problem make a Sixteen, if we still have a problem supercharge the Sixteen. ;)

It's likely I won't be purchasing a Cadillac with a Northstar. I'll stick with my Corvette and my Corvette powered Cadillac, I just love the grunt of a pushrod motor. I would love to see a supercharged LS2 or an LS7 in a Cadillac though. A race proven easily modified motor is a must to compete in my book.

Afreet1, if that's the case you don't represent many premium buyers. But wouldn't an XV12 northstar get you in the dealership even faster?

As I said, I don't really care who make the motor, as long as the end product performs as needed then I will be happy. I just don't see a 440HP 4.4L doing it, I can see a supercharges LS2 or whatever high HP NA northstar comes down the line. I don't think the majority of buyers do either. I think they first want to know. A) what are the HP and 0-60 specs, B) does that beat my neighbors SL55 AMG? The goal is to have a nice, high performance semi-supercar and still play the bench race game. If it comes to paying 10,000 more for a 6L V8 northstar vs. an LS2. Give me the LS2. As for the majority of luxury car buyers, we can't know that unless we do a fresh survey can we?

Afreet, no one except the guys currently driving the 440SC N* off the assembly line actually know how it will perform in the XLR or STS-V, but it appears your selling it short, sight unseen.


Consider the SL55 AMG weighs in at 4200lb. XLR-V at 3800lb. SL55 AMG hits 60 in 4.7 sec. XLR-V in under 5. No doubt that the XLR-V will out handle the SL55 AMG, unless the Corvette suspension has become obsolete.

And in reading about the acceleration of the SL55AMG, it's not the acceration that Edmunds likes, it's the 'effortless' acceleration. IE no loud noises.

The ZO6 will make tons of noise, snort, snarl, and burn rubber all the way to 5th gear. And it happens to be the best place for an old pushrod V-8.

As for the majority of luxury car buyers, we can't know that unless we do a fresh survey can we?

We can know that because that's the way it is. That's why in 1993 Cadillac went with the northstar instead of any pushrod to power all of its cars except Fleetwood. If Cadillac put a 90* V10 in a production STS-V, the magazines and everyone else would say it idles rough and isn't refined enough for a luxury car.

I guess I figured if people liked the V10 idea because of the power they'd like the XV12 idea even more because it's even more power, and if people didn't like the V10 idea because it's a pushrod they'd like the XV12 idea because it's DOHC. :hmm:

The CTS -V already compares favorably with the V10 M5. With an extra 40hp, and less weight, the XLR-V should be a screamer. The STS-V should be in the same league as the M5.

The M5 has a real high redline, but it needs all of it to make 350lb/ft of torque. The N* will be making that on idle.

I would love to see an STS-V attempt to take a 2006 M5... oh my that would be quite entertaining... :disappoin

Afreet1, if that's the case you don't represent many premium buyers. But wouldn't an XV12 northstar get you in the dealership even faster?

Devil_Concours, the STS-V's competition is M5 at 500hp and E55 at 469hp. A DTS-V or even ULS-V if made today would be the one to deal with S65 AMG at 604hp. The XV12 in the Cien made 750hp, so I think an XV12 could top the S65 AMG. If we still have a problem, make a S/C XV12, if we still have a problem make a Sixteen, if we still have a problem supercharge the Sixteen. ;)

At which point it would be so heavy, expensive, and unreliable an SLR Mclaren would probably equal it in performance and be substantially cheaper.

But then sigh... there is the Bugatti Veyron.

I do tend to agree that Cadillac needs its own exclusive engines, but engine sharing even among the premium brands is becoming more common these days. Audi's premium A8 W12 shares an engine with the W12 Phaeton, and the corporate 4.2 from Audi is found in everything from the Touareg to a heavily modified version in an ultra exclusive Spyker.

I would love to see an STS-V attempt to take a 2006 M5... oh my that would be quite entertaining... :disappoin


I'm not exactly sure what your point is.

http://www.rsportscars.com/eng/cars/bmw_m5.asp

http://www.rsportscars.com/eng/cars/cadillac_sts-v.asp

Then again, I never am.

The CTS-V compares favorably in performance numbers to the M5, as posted from a German evaluation somewhere on this forum by Goth.

With an extra 40hp, and 200lbs more weight, I would think that the STS-V will compare very favorably with the performance numbers of the newest M5

]At which point it would be so heavy, expensive, and unreliable an SLR Mclaren would probably equal it in performance and be substantially cheaper.[/b]

But then sigh... there is the Bugatti Veyron.

I do tend to agree that Cadillac needs its own exclusive engines, but engine sharing even among the premium brands is becoming more common these days. Audi's premium A8 W12 shares an engine with the W12 Phaeton, and the corporate 4.2 from Audi is found in everything from the Touareg to a heavily modified version in an ultra exclusive Spyker.

And I assume you're referring to the unreliability of the Cadillac engine line in general with this comment, correct?

I'm not exactly sure what your point is.

http://www.rsportscars.com/eng/cars/bmw_m5.asp

http://www.rsportscars.com/eng/cars/cadillac_sts-v.asp

Then again, I never am.

The CTS-V compares favorably in performance numbers to the M5, as posted from a German evaluation somewhere on this forum by Goth.

With an extra 40hp, and 200lbs more weight, I would think that the STS-V will compare very favorably with the performance numbers of the newest M5

It may compare favorably on paper, but in a real world application I just dont see the STS-V taking an M5. Perhaps from a start, but at the high end the M5 would probably pull away from the STS. This has already been shown to be the case with the E55, and the E has 29 more horses than the STS and a monstrous amount of torque (and its the better car out of the three anyway). This should mitigate any minor differences between those two cars and the fact of the matter is the M5 still pulls like a freight train once it gets going. I dont think the STS is a bad car, I just think that its a little early to declare victory at this point. Ill wait til R&T, CD or MT do some sort of comparison here before I make a firm judgment. As I said, it would be entertaining to watch to say the least.

And I assume you're referring to the unreliability of the Cadillac engine line in general with this comment, correct?

You can infer from it what you wish, It was mostly just sarcasm. I dont think Id want a SUPERCHARGED 16 Cylinder engine made by ANYONE. 16 Cylinders naturally aspirated would be tricky enough.

At which point it would be so heavy, expensive, and unreliable an SLR Mclaren would probably equal it in performance and be substantially cheaper.

But then sigh... there is the Bugatti Veyron.


The SLR Mclaren is $450k and makes 626hp/576tq at 3900 pounds, that wouldn't be too hard to beat with an XV12 XLR. The Sixteen naturally aspirated only gives one hp to the Veryon. Stick a S/C 16 in anything smaller than a dump truck and it would hand the Veryon its ass. There's no way the 16 is going into production unless they go all out and make a ULS-V though.

A S/C V16 in a ULS-V would definately put Cadillac back up to being the standard of the world.

The SLR Mclaren is $450k and makes 626hp/576tq at 3900 pounds, that wouldn't be too hard to beat with an XV12 XLR. The Sixteen naturally aspirated only gives one hp to the Veryon. Stick a S/C 16 in anything smaller than a dump truck and it would hand the Veryon its ass. There's no way the 16 is going into production unless they go all out and make a ULS-V though.

A S/C V16 in a ULS-V would definately put Cadillac back up to being the standard of the world.

I agree, but the Veyron IS a 16 Cylinder car making 1001hp in naturally aspirated form. Its NOWHERE NEAR as luxurious or good looking at the Sixteen concept and its ALREADY 1M. I fully believe that if the Sixteen were to become a reality, pricing of mid to upper six figures would not be out of the question, maybe even eclipsing that of the Veyron. For this reason I just dont see it ever happening.

I don't see it happening either. And for the record, FOUR turbos is about as far from naturally aspirated as you can get.

hey guys, didn't you forget a little thing? by all the pretty hp you get from an engine, you even need to bring the power on the road! to put a 2 ton heavy car from 0-60 under 5 secs you will need AWD! but AWD is very hard to handle at high speeds, that's why all those cars (M5, E55, STS-V...) come only with RWD, so the deal isn't done by the engine, it's done by weight!

I don't see it happening either. And for the record, FOUR turbos is about as far from naturally aspirated as you can get.

Well in that case all bets are off!

Ok so let's sum up what we have so far:

1) More power is good
2) V10 is desirable over the 4.4L SC Northstar
3) Some like LSX motors others like N*
4) CTS-V owners have pride in corvette motors in their chassis
5) Some see Corvette motors as old tech with no place in a Cadillac
6) Some like big exhaust notes, others like it "effortless"
7) Caddy has the SAE caddy with a supercharged LS2
8) Caddy has just developed the SC 4.4L N*
9) M Series has NA motors
10) MB AMG are FI motors
11) People want Caddy to dominate the market and not be just "Good enough" (see critique on 4.4L SC Northstar)
12) Some people view the Northstar as unreliable
13) Some like the Experimental V12 in the Cien concept (which also had a sequential gearbox)

So if we synthesize all of these together I think we are left with a 10 cylinder Northstar with a displacement of approximately 6.6L (average hp/liter of the LS2 and XV12) that uses dual overhead cams (DOHC) and 40 valves. Everyone seems to be pretty indifferent between the naturally aspirated and forced induction (although I suspect that NA is preferred).


This engine would need to be very strong and upgradeable to satisfy the speed fans but have sufficient power to avoid the exhaust note of a Z06. (massive power means less “wide open throttle” to reach desired speed).

The remaining issues that haven't been addressed is the desired weight of the engine, the additional cost and if it will fit in the sigma / XLR bodies.



Do we agree here?

Well... the problem with a 90* V10 is balance issues or so I've heard. A 72* V10 solves these problems, but a DOHC 72* V10 would be way too tall. So I'd still want the 7.5L XV12.

The SLR Mclaren is $450k and makes 626hp/576tq at 3900 pounds, that wouldn't be too hard to beat with an XV12 XLR. The Sixteen naturally aspirated only gives one hp to the Veryon. Stick a S/C 16 in anything smaller than a dump truck and it would hand the Veryon its ass. There's no way the 16 is going into production unless they go all out and make a ULS-V though.

A S/C V16 in a ULS-V would definately put Cadillac back up to being the standard of the world.

Whats the ULS-V concept? Anyone have a picture to post?

guys guys its not the size its haw you use it
a formula one car has a V10 but on a 3.0l and i had the chance to test the stsv in bahrain with the 4.4 L it was gr8 till now no info on putting a v 10 in the sts or xlr v but in 2008 the escalade will come with a V10 thats for sure and the escalade 2007 will come with a v8 6.2 and the shape of the car is supper nice its none of the spy photos in this site it looks like the sizteen more or les trust me i know cause i work with GM

Liberty to all of you Guys

guys guys its not the size its haw you use it
a formula one car has a V10 but on a 3.0l and i had the chance to test the stsv in bahrain with the 4.4 L it was gr8 till now no info on putting a v 10 in the sts or xlr v but in 2008 the escalade will come with a V10 thats for sure and the escalade 2007 will come with a v8 6.2 and the shape of the car is supper nice its none of the spy photos in this site it looks like the sizteen more or les trust me i know cause i work with GM

Liberty to all of you Guys

How can a 7 Passenger SUV look like the Sixteen?

How can a 7 Passenger SUV look like the Sixteen?



Only from the frunt and the back and its the shape not the car trust me i know what am talking about
once i get the real pics you guys will be the sirst to know about it


Liberty to all of you Guys