Yet Another Remake for Lincoln?

"Ford's North American design chief, Peter Horbury, insists he has an answer to that perennial question: what exactly does the automaker's Lincoln brand stand for? There's good reason for the confusion, the British executive admits. In recent years, Ford has trotted out a procession of prototypes, such as the slab-sided Mark IX, each supposedly representing a new direction for Lincoln. Compounding the confusion? Recent management comments deigning Lincoln a "blue-collar luxury" brand. Add the fact that the latest Lincolns are little more than rebadged Fords and Mercurys, and it's clear that Lincoln still has an identity crisis.

"I would hope we could make a change like they did at Cadillac," which has been transformed from a stodgy, sinking brand into one of the market's hottest marques, said Horbury. "We have to get something on the road that is desirable" to the sort of youthful luxury buyers who drive market trends, added Horbury, who has been trying to pump new life into Ford styling since assuming the North American post last year.

"I'd like to think I've brought something different to the table," than such highly controversial, retro-influenced designed like the Mark IX. Though Horbury clearly appreciates successful "heritage" pieces, like the Mustang, he is turning away from the sort of forward-into-the-past strategy pushed by Ford's global design boss, J Mays.

Exactly what Horbury has in mind, he isn't saying. "There was an awful lot from Lincoln that was promised and envisaged that came to naught," he offered in way of explanation. But he made it clear there is a brief window of opportunity to act, with Lincoln having the chance to stand out at a time when many of the top-selling luxury brands, such as Mercedes-Benz, Lexus and BMW, are facing problems of their own." -Paul A. Eisenstein

http://www.thecarconnection.com/Industry/Industry_News/Marketing_Report_May_9_2005.S175.A8591.html

"blue collar luxury" - How embarrassing is that!!!

There's plenty of room for them to screw up. Ford is a solid company, and the new Aviator will breathe some new life into Lincoln.

They really DO need to do something performance-wise like Cadillac has, and the retro ideas need to find their way into Lincoln. They need a return of the Continental, and they need to dump the Town Car. The loyal people can still buy a Marquis or a Crown Vic.

One trend they did kind of start is the full-size luxury SUV. The Navigator was first, but Lincoln has been getting their butts whipped in that segment ever since then. Just doesn't make sense.

Ford's successes have been evolutionary, not revolutionary. Whenever they try a "new" idea that's too drastic it flops. Look at the T-Bird. Yet the retro Mustang is selling faster than they can make them.

I dunno what the answer is, but my guess is that Lincoln and Mercury will be around for many years to come.

Plus, they have a HOTT new model doing commercials for the Mercury SUV's and the F150. I can't get enough of her.

Its like super deja-vu. I must say Mercury needs to die about 15 times a month...

Anywho... Lincoln isnt going anywhere, anywhere but the annels of forgotten automobilia very soon if they don't get their act together. The Town Car, as classic as that nameplate is, should unfortunately probably go, but NOT til Cadillac removes the Deville. They are both healthy competition for eachother right now, and frankly they have a market. Unfortunately, the name "TOWN CAR" probably wont have a place on the kind of drastically madeover vehicles it will take for Lincoln, who in a sad sign of defeat has now officially ADMITTED being smacked like a bitch by Rival Cadillac, to come out of its rut.

There will always be a place for the Navigator... Just put a decent engine in it, or supercharge it please, at least a performance version for the rest of us. This isnt 1975 and 10 second 0-60 times on something that makes 300hp is not acceptable.

The LS has the most potential for future expansion into pretty much whatever they want it to be in competition with the CTS. A supercharged or otherwise performance oriented version of this car would be downright HOT. The build quality of th LS feels vastly superior to the CTS from the inside, and the luxury features are usually on much more expensive cars. Its a solid platform too. Just kind of vanilla right now.

Aviator... Agree with Elvis, this is going in the right direction based on recent concepts.

Bring back the Mark nameplate on something other than a gussied up mamas boy pickup, no one really ever knew what the Mark was supposed to be to begin with, so that leaves alot of room to mold it into a breakthrough vehicle.

I would love to see a new Mark car. Lincoln needs to make a new Mark IX, not the Mark IX prototype I've seen before. Their Continental retro looks good with the return of the suicide doors. If they made a really attractive Mark, I'd be all over it.

SVT LS8. Doooo it.

Both Lincoln and Mercury have been ignored by Ford for years and years, mostly because they've been spending their energy and money on Jaguar, Land Rover, and Volvo.

In the old days, Lincolns were built to be amongst the top luxury cars in the world, but just like GM with Cadillac, Ford went for volume instead of exclusivity. Plus, Ford has shown a million concept Lincolns, but they never get around to building them. It just seems that Ford is convinced that the future of luxury is Jaguar, and so they now don't know what to do with Lincoln. In the old days (1950s, 1960s), Lincolns were serious alternatives to the best in the world.

Mercury can definitely be saved, but they need the models to do it, and Ford has been criminal in not offering them, just like Chrysler starved Plymouth.

Mercurys need to be more than Fords with chrome grills, which is something Dearborn has never understood, mostly because it's the cheapest way to go. But think of some of the great Mercurys of the past: the Cougar XR-7, the Cyclone, the Marauder, the the lead-sled V8s from the '50s, the Park Lane luxury sedans. They had performance and luxury, but didn't cost a fortune. If you did have serious money in those days, you bought a Lincoln.

But the new Montego? Where's the style? What's the reason to buy one? And since there's no reason, no one buys, and since no one buys, Ford and all the detractors think Mercury can't be saved.

I do understand why a lot of people think Mercury should be put out to pasture, but if you are in the business of building cars, you don't retreat from a challenge, you should be smart enough to understand the problem and fix it.

GM could've saved Oldsmobile (which had 2800 dealers and a brand everyone knew) but they threw it all away. All they needed was a new 442 to get the ball rolling again. I guess that's why GM execs make millions.

Its like super deja-vu. I must say Mercury needs to die about 15 times a month...



"Almost unnoticed, too, is the improvement in Ford's Mercury line, which moved 55,306 cars and trucks, up 17% from a year ago. This just goes to show what can happen when you give the dealers something to sell."

Mercury is a bright spot for Ford right now, and if they treat it right, could get brighter.

http://www.forbes.com/columnists/columnists/2005/04/12/cz_jf_0412flint.html

I think Mazda and Volvo will save the Ford Motor Company before it's all said and done. And I think Ford will save Jaguar as well. This will be the model for all of these big mergers and acquisitions that have been going on.

On the other hand, I think the Daimler/Chrysler marriage is doomed. They'll bring each other down.

There needs to be a Honda/GM marriage, or maybe a Toyota/GM connection. That could fix a lot of things for everyone involved.

Toyota/GM connection. That could fix a lot of things for everyone involved.There was. They sold Cavaliers in Japan but put on the Toyota logo and named it something else. But Ford is stuck with Lincoln. They have too many luxury brands to worry about. Ford can't make a super nice car with all the goodies in it because that would steal sales from Volvo and Jaguar. They can't make a fast car because that would also steal sales from Jaguar and Volvo since both manufacturers have their performance vehicles. It seems like Ford is treating Jag, Lincoln, and Volvo as a good, better, and best type of setup. If you have a lot of money buy a Jag, if you have a decent amount of money buy a Volvo, and if you have some money buy a Lincoln. But Lincoln needs to totally redesign its whole lineup and bring back the Mark series because a Mark LT truck is a disgrace to the Mark nameplate. But don't forget about Lincoln's knight in shining armor the Zephyr. Now that is a hot car! Hopefully this will be the beginning of a good thing for Lincoln

Toyota / GM could be extremely beneficial in the long run. GM could learn an absolute ton about quality, efficiency, and in turn, Toyota could learn a thing or two about creativity and styling. Just imagine, a Chevy with quality of an Avalon. Or for that matter, a Lexus with the styling help of Caddy.

Brian

Toyota and GM have partnered up on quite a few projects over the years. Two that come to mind right off the top of my head are the Geo Prism/Toyota Corolla (which were built side by side at the same plant) and more recently, the Toyota Matrix/Pontiac Vib...rator.

But don't forget about Lincoln's knight in shining armor the Zephyr. Now that is a hot car! Hopefully this will be the beginning of a good thing for Lincoln

it just seems to me that it is a Cobalt fighter. 210 hp so a little more than the Cobalt SS supercharged but still. i think if they put a V8 in it, damn, that car would really kick ass.

i like the way it looks and it is pretty damn cool that they are bringing back a name from the 30s. i'd buy one (if i had the money, no price as of yet). i do agree though, the Zephyr could be the start of something good for Lincoln.

i like the idea of bringing back the Continental with suicide doors. those old 60's models seem to be real hot right now and if they re-made them, i think they would be as popular as the new 300C is currently.

it just seems to me that it is a Cobalt fighter. 210 hp so a little more than the Cobalt SS supercharged but still. i think if they put a V8 in it, damn, that car would really kick ass.I can't believe your comparing a Lincoln to a Cobalt. Not every car is made for performance. If that was the case there would be no economy cars and no SUV's. The car is a luxury touring sedan. Not a CTS-V. But yes if they did stick a V8 in it that would kick ass.

i love that girl in the mercury commercials. looks like my middle school english teacher.

The Zephyr looks hot. An SVT Zephyr would kick some serious ass. It's FWD though so there's not a whole lot they can do there. That's why I say S/C 5.4 or at least 4.6 SVT LS would be the best.

I can't believe your comparing a Lincoln to a Cobalt. Not every car is made for performance. If that was the case there would be no economy cars and no SUV's. The car is a luxury touring sedan. Not a CTS-V. But yes if they did stick a V8 in it that would kick ass.

well not really comparing, didnt mean for it to sound that way. im just pointing out that its got 210 hp right? the Cobalt SS supercharged has 205? and that thing starts at 22k! that Zephyr is going to be how much? paying for a name! thats all you'd be doing. now if it had 250 hp or something i would have shut up. i just cant believe that is all it is going to have! yeah a V8 version im sure would be a big hit. im sure that will cross their minds (i hope).

I never have, and still don't consider Volvo a luxury car... let alone higher then Lincoln....

I persoanlly like the Town Car, it is a true American luxury car.

Unless something gets done with Mercury, it is just a fancy Ford... although my grandfathers '03 Grand Marquis is a nice car...

but please don't mention Oldsmobile..... it brings a tear to my eye when I keep thinking about it :(

Volvo S80 is classified as a luxury car. The remainder of the line is not. The top of the S80 line, the S80 Premier Elite window stickers for $ 55,000 with the popular options. You've never seen one. They recieved 103 orders for one in 2004. (I wrote to Volvo to ask, as I spent the year lOOking for one to see ! :D

http://www.csi-auto.nl/carshopping/0659/volvo_s80executive.jpg

http://www.volvolandia.com/kuva-arkisto/volvos80se.jpg

well not really comparing, didnt mean for it to sound that way. im just pointing out that its got 210 hp right? the Cobalt SS supercharged has 205? and that thing starts at 22k! that Zephyr is going to be how much? paying for a name! thats all you'd be doing. now if it had 250 hp or something i would have shut up. i just cant believe that is all it is going to have! yeah a V8 version im sure would be a big hit. im sure that will cross their minds (i hope).

You should shut up now. Your car makes 185hp, but the Cobalt SS has 205. So you just paid for a name and the Cobalt is obviously 10 times better than your weak piece of shit.

:cookoo:

Volvo S80 is classified as a luxury car. The remainder of the line is not. The top of the S80 line, the S80 Premier Elite window stickers for $ 55,000 with the popular options. You've never seen one. They recieved 103 orders for one in 2004. (I wrote to Volvo to ask, as I spent the year lOOking for one to see ! :D

http://www.csi-auto.nl/carshopping/0659/volvo_s80executive.jpg

http://www.volvolandia.com/kuva-arkisto/volvos80se.jpg

I would say that despite not being officially classified in the luxury segment, the Volvo XC90 V8 rivals some of the highest end luxury SUVs out there, though its not quite a bargain either at close to 60k loaded out.

Volvo S80 is classified as a luxury car. The remainder of the line is not. The top of the S80 line, the S80 Premier Elite window stickers for $ 55,000 with the popular options. You've never seen one. They recieved 103 orders for one in 2004. (I wrote to Volvo to ask, as I spent the year lOOking for one to see ! :D

http://www.csi-auto.nl/carshopping/0659/volvo_s80executive.jpg

http://www.volvolandia.com/kuva-arkisto/volvos80se.jpg

Can you say "brain tumour" with those headrest monitors. :eek:

I say give the kids a book. It's cheaper and they'll learn more. :yup:

OK, I'll shut up now. :hide:

What about this?? Talk about "slab-sided!"

http://www.autointell.com/nao_companies/ford/mercury/mercury-meta-one-concept-05/mercury-meta-one-05.htm


I didn't think THIS was a bad idea??? Why don't they produce it???

http://www.autointell.com/nao_companies/ford/ford-concepts/forty_nine/concept-forty-nine-01.htm

http://www.autointell.com/nao_companies/ford/ford-concepts/forty_nine/Forty-Nine_01-550.jpg

Now there's a 'neuvo-retro' look.

http://www.autointell.com/nao_companies/ford/ford-concepts/forty_nine/Forty-Nine_01-550.jpg

Now there's a 'neuvo-retro' look.

The rear-half profile kind of reminds me of my Fleetwood, complete with skirts partially hiding the tires.

Ford has all these great ideas and concepts, but they NEVER do anything with them!

Volvo S80 is classified as a luxury car. The remainder of the line is not. The top of the S80 line, the S80 Premier Elite window stickers for $ 55,000 with the popular options. You've never seen one. They recieved 103 orders for one in 2004. (I wrote to Volvo to ask, as I spent the year lOOking for one to see ! :D

http://www.csi-auto.nl/carshopping/0659/volvo_s80executive.jpg

http://www.volvolandia.com/kuva-arkisto/volvos80se.jpg Can you say "brain tumour" with those headrest monitors. :eek:

I say give the kids a book. It's cheaper and they'll learn more. :yup:

OK, I'll shut up now. :hide:It's OK, you just have to wear the aluminum foil shower caps provided with the car while the kiddies watch the videos. :bighead:

The rear-half profile kind of reminds me of my Fleetwood, complete with skirts partially hiding the tires.

Ford has all these great ideas and concepts, but they NEVER do anything with them!They're just 'a teasin' us! :annoyed:

They're just 'a teasin' us! :annoyed:

I would say so!! :coffee:

You should shut up now. Your car makes 185hp, but the Cobalt SS has 205. So you just paid for a name and the Cobalt is obviously 10 times better than your weak piece of shit.

:cookoo:

oh no shit really? i bought that car so i could juice it. i didnt buy it for the hp and dont really care how much it has. WHAT I AM SAYING IS i cant believe the Cobalt has only 5 less hp than a future luxury car. that is what i am pointing out. i just figured that it would have had more. shit even that new Honda has 255 hp! so you shut up.:helpless: :cookoo:

ok the LS starts at 33k so what do you think the Zephyr will start out at? what is its competition going to be? the LS tops out at 280 hp which is great and i know that the Zephyr shouldnt have more cause it would take away sales. guess it is just one of those Cobalt/ Malibu/ Cavalier kinda things.

i love that girl in the mercury commercials. looks like my middle school english teacher.

I can't get enough of that. She's perfect, and she slides under an F150 with a cutting torch. That's just too HOTTTTT!!!! :thumbsup:

I think Ford screwed up making a $38,000 T-Bird when they should've been selling it for $25,000.

If they want to make a $38,000 convertible, they should make a new Mark II.

ok the LS starts at 33k so what do you think the Zephyr will start out at? what is its competition going to be? the LS tops out at 280 hp which is great and i know that the Zephyr shouldnt have more cause it would take away sales. guess it is just one of those Cobalt/ Malibu/ Cavalier kinda things.hp doesn't = luxury. hp = performance, thats all. Out of the whole BMW 3 series the highest hp car only has 255 hp and the lowest hp version is like 180 hp. Hell my old Spec V had 180 hp! If you want the hi-po version then you need to get the M3. So does that means the 3 series isn't a luxury car? :confused:

Actually, high power to low weight ratio gets you closer to performance.

Actually, high power to low weight ratio gets you closer to performance.Not even that. Just power to weight ratio gives you performance, ie, Lotus Elise. It just has a massaged Toyota Celica engine in it but yet it run's low 13's.

Not even that. Just power to weight ratio gives you performance, ie, Lotus Elise. It just has a massaged Toyota Celica engine in it but yet it run's low 13's.Yeah, that's what I was getting at. Power:Weight ratio does give you the performance rating, power>weight=higher performance, power<weight=lower performance. That's why I tried to qualify my original statement. :thumbsup:

06 Zephyr = 210hp and 3404 pounds.
05 BMW 325i sedan = 184hp and 3300 pounds.
05 CTS 2.8L = 210hp and around 3500 pounds.
05 Lexus IS = 215hp and 3300-3400 pounds.

Yeah the Zephyr is fine as an entry level luxury car with 210hp, so don't whine when it's very comparable to the alternatives.

Of course, it's not just power:weight, there are miriads of other factors to consider, drag, gear ratios, torque, traction, etc. just to name a few. Then there is the skill of the driver which can make a world of difference.

It all looks simple on paper but it sometimes gets messy in real world terms.

I can't get enough of that. She's perfect, and she slides under an F150 with a cutting torch. That's just too HOTTTTT!!!! :thumbsup:

Well, now I have to look for that!!!!

Kev, I'm not sure what you're arguing. No one is saying anything to contradict you. I'm arguing with 93 because he's being stubborn :p

Kev, I'm not sure what you're arguing. No one is saying anything to contradict you. I'm arguing with 93 because he's being stubborn :pI didn't know I was arguing, I thought I was just posting technical information, a few facts as I know of them, that's all. No biggie.

Kev, I'm not sure what you're arguing. No one is saying anything to contradict you. I'm arguing with 93 because he's being stubborn :p

im not trying to be stubborn im just saying that they are trying to attract a younger crowd right? how young i dont know but younger crowds are looking for hp not so much as luxury (which im not saying that some arent looking for that either). what i am saying is that for 22k you can get a Cobalt with almost as much or a new Mustang V6 with the same amount of hp. of course the others have that same hp rating but are luxury cars. i mean if i wanted a performance luxury car i'd want more hp for that kinda money (even if it is only 30k to start). im not trying to argue im just saying that you got luxury cars with the same amount of hp that these just plain performance ones have. hell yeah id buy a Zephyr if the price is in my range! am i making sense?

hp doesn't = luxury. hp = performance, thats all. Out of the whole BMW 3 series the highest hp car only has 255 hp and the lowest hp version is like 180 hp. Hell my old Spec V had 180 hp! If you want the hi-po version then you need to get the M3. So does that means the 3 series isn't a luxury car? :confused:

No, the BMW 3-Series is NOT a luxury car. Possibly "near" Luxury..... The 5 & 6 & 7 are catagorized as Luxury Cars !

No, the BMW 3-Series is NOT a luxury car. Possibly "near" Luxury..... The 5 & 6 & 7 are catagorized as Luxury Cars !Then are you saying the CTS isn't a luxury car since its an entry level car just like the 3 series?

Then are you saying the CTS isn't a luxury car since its an entry level car just like the 3 series?

No, the CTS is NOT a luxury car IMO.
Either is the BMW 3-series. I think a lot of people make the mistake of thinking ALL German marques are luxury cars. They aren't Matter of fact if you go over to Europe, you'll notice something rather strange. Most taxis are Mercedes! Of course they're models that aren't sold here so Americans are used to thinking M-B doesn't make anything other than highline cars.
Anyway, I think Blackout has a point. Lincoln IS in a bit of a squeeze between Fords other brands and therefore it's hard to establish a clearcut market segment all to it's own. IMO, the Town Car should stay forever. It's the clear cut winner in the fleet/livery market and is a guaranteed sales tool for as long as Ford makes it. The REAL problem at Lincoln is the Navigator and LS. Both established the market and then let it die. The Navigator was the first real full-size luxury SUV but since it's introduction, has pretty much been happy with playing second fiddle to the Escalade. It needs better performance AND and smoother ride. It's a nice looking truck and has all the bells and whistles you could ever want but unless the driver is comfortable and feels it has enough power.....
As for the LS, I think that car was wasted. When it came out it set the bar for the competition but since Ford made a poor choice in engine/trans combos, the car just didn't excite many buyers. Only making a stick available with a weak-ass V6 was a mistake. Finally discontinuing the manual althogether was an even BIGGER mistake. BUT...it does have to watch out for the 'S'-Type Jag too.
IMO, if Ford would bring out and SVT version LS and a Navigator that actually cradled it's passengers in comfort and rewarded it's driver with some power, it would start stealing sales back from Cadillac.
Bring the Mark back is a risky deal. They sold about as good as the Eldorado and we all know what happened to THAT! But...coupes ARE making a bit of a come-back so it's hard to say whether a MKIX would be good or bad. Maybe if they did a 4-door coupe like the M-B CLS......

hey Kat, where you live do they have a luxury tax on vehicles? just wondering cause in TN they do, anything over 45k or 50k gets a luxury tax. a guy i work with (retired, owned his own trucking company, he's got more money than he knows what to do with) bought a brand new Escalade and he said they charged him a luxury tax and it shot the price up. i guess luxury starts (here atleast) at 45k-50k.