: I searched 1st--comments from those with Lgnflt CAI AND StealthV intake



ntechnic
05-05-05, 07:42 PM
I searched and didn't find much from people running both the Lingenfelter CAI filter/housing and the StealthV MAS to TB kit.

I took the stock intake off the car and did some pondering. The weird pinch in the stock tube between the Air Sensor and the throttle body is probably there for shaping the air flow somehow. As far as I'm concerned, it's unneeded turbulance and a restriction. So the StealthV kit makes a lot of sense.

The inlet opening on the stock airbox looks OK, but the tube feeding air to it has some problems. I used playdoh and some armorall (to keep the playdoh from sticking to the plastic) to get a plug of the cross section shape of the tube feeding from the grill. I couldn't get too far in and still be able to get it out in one piece, but what I got shows that the cross-sectional area is quite a bit less than the diameter of the TB inlet. So there's almost for sure a horsepower loss through that restriction too. Plus, the air is forced to bend very sharply turn into the airbox, and fluid doesn't like to bend.

So I think I want to upgrade everything forward of the TB. I've seen pics of Speed Inc.'s solution, but A) I can't find the actual part on their website, and B) living on the edge of the Mojave desert here in Santa Clarita, it gets very hot in July-Oct, so I want a partially sealed solution at least. And of the two CAI kits that have sheet metal, the Ligenfelter one looks the best.

I think the weird inlet hose is worse than the inlet to the filter housing, so I'll probably do the StealthV upgrade first, then the Ligenfelter one.

So two questions, Are any of you running both and what do you think? Also, does the Ligenfelter require any drill or other tell tale indications? I want to be able to swap back to stock for dealer visits for warranty (had bad experiences with Ford on the Cobra, and that was BEFORE I started modding).

StealthV
05-05-05, 07:52 PM
The stock intake's "divider" is there to keep the plastic tube from collapsing in a high heat environment such as Phoenix in the summer.

The stock airbox has more than the front opening feeding it. In addition to the "front" opening, the stock airbox pulls air from the fender side as well.

Magnuson uses the stock airbox with their supercharger. With that in mind, it's not hard to envision that the stock airbox would supply a naturally aspirated engine just fine.

Another plus of the stock airbox is guaranteed cooler air than a open element style arrangement. Wildwhl was doing some testing on this; perhaps he has some data to share.

The posted dyno numbers for the FFV are very conservative on purpose. ;)

The only downside is there are no free t-shirts with the FFV.

:cheers:

BeagleBrains
05-05-05, 08:22 PM
The restriction in the air inlet affects flow dynamics. A narrowing raises the inlet pressure, which becomes a higher flow or velocity head effect tha accelerates the air flow into the intake. This can affect a higher air charge density for better horsepower.

ntechnic
05-05-05, 08:36 PM
Before switching majors I studied engineering (aeronatutics--dyslexics make bad engineers), so I have some grounding in fluid theories, and there's a lot to consider beyond the inverse relationship of velocity and pressure. There's no free lunch, you lose some net energy when you manipulate velocities and pressures.

No free lunch applies to everything if you think about it, noise vs. power, comfort vs. speed. It's the amazing balance of compromises that makes me love this car.

As to the second inlet to the air box, I had the thing out of the car, how in the heck did I mess this??? I only see one hole in the airbox, and that's at the front.

Barak
05-05-05, 08:41 PM
From what I can tell looking at the the intake ducting, the restriction inside it is not primarily for rigidity or for higher air velocity. The restriction accomplishes the same goal as a resonator box and alters the natural frequency of the airflow, thereby reducing induction noise.

slow35th
05-05-05, 08:44 PM
The restriction in the air inlet affects flow dynamics. A narrowing raises the inlet pressure, which becomes a higher flow or velocity head effect tha accelerates the air flow into the intake. This can affect a higher air charge density for better horsepower.

I don't see how a narrowing in the air inlet can do anything but reduce flow. If the air flow was under pressure which it is not then velocity would be increased but the volume of air would be reduced and what we are after is higher volumes of air.

There are definitly two openings in the stock airbox. One in the front and one in the side towards the fender.

slow35th
05-05-05, 08:45 PM
From what I can tell looking at the the intake ducting, the restriction inside it is not primarily for rigidity or for higher air velocity. The restriction accomplishes the same goal as a resonator box and alters the natural frequency of the airflow, thereby reducing induction noise.

Bingo!!! We have a winner but it does offer some rigidity.

StealthV
05-05-05, 08:50 PM
The divider is there to keep the tube from collapsing. That fact is straight from GM, no pun intended. :)

slow35th
05-05-05, 08:52 PM
The divider is there to keep the tube from collapsing. That fact is straight from GM, no pun intended. :)

Rick, check your email.

StealthV
05-05-05, 09:01 PM
Here are the two air inlets to the stock airbox.

"A" is the one originally discussed; "B" is towards the fender.

Shall we discuss Helmholtz, the air velocity or mass flow rate through the intake tube? I did stay at a Holiday Inn express last night. ;)

Texan V
05-05-05, 10:32 PM
I'm running both the LPE airbox and Stealth V's air tube without any issues. I had the Stealth tube first and added the LPE box about two months later. Didn't really notice any difference after adding the LPE box other than a little more intake noise (no whistle, just rushing air sound). Straight forward on the install, no drilling or anything of that sort. The hardest part was pulling out the rubber snorkle.

Barak
05-05-05, 10:53 PM
Here are the two air inlets to the stock airbox.

"A" is the one originally discussed; "B" is towards the fender.

Shall we discuss Helmholtz, the air velocity or mass flow rate through the intake tube? I did stay at a Holiday Inn express last night. ;)

I was referring to the restriction in the center of the intake ducting, not the air box itself. But a discussion of Helmholtz would be interesting.

slow35th
05-05-05, 11:01 PM
I was referring to the restriction in the center of the intake ducting, not the air box itself. But a discussion of Helmholtz would be interesting.

I think the comments about two openings in the air box were directed to ntechnic. I know mine were.

PneuBird
05-06-05, 05:19 AM
"I did stay at the Holiday Inn Express last night" :histeric: :histeric: :histeric: :histeric:

ntechnic
05-06-05, 02:58 PM
I had a little med procedure and haven't been able to play with the car since posting this. As soon as I can I have to find the second inlet...

Noise is a big issue with the manufacturers, the drive-by noise tests are ever more restricitve, and intakes can be noisy. I can't believe GM couldn't have molded a few reinforcing ribs on the intake tube to keep it from collapsing, so in spite of their stated purpose for it, I'll buy that it has more to do with noise tuning.

OK, so I'm going to start with StealthV's intake kit and see how that feels. If there's as more inlet area to the stock airbox as this discussion indicates, then I'm going to leave it be.

BTW, I'm a "failed" engineer. Due to my dyslexia, after I got my AS in aero (for my A&P licenses) I started engineering school. Then a professor counseled me that he hoped I had 'backup' plans because dyslexic's make lousy engineers. Well, I love computers (built my first PC in 1977), how about Computer Science. Second semester, prof says, "I hope you have backup plans because.." Oh-oh. So I went into business. Now I manage designers, programmers, etc. Those that can't do, start a business. :)

StealthV
05-06-05, 03:05 PM
It is not for noise tuning but for rigidity - this came straight from a GM HPVO employee works on Vs. The stock airbox will flow more than enough for 500+ hp applications.

ntechnic
05-06-05, 03:19 PM
Is the StealthV tube aluminum or steel?

slow35th
05-06-05, 03:20 PM
BTW, I'm a "failed" engineer. Due to my dyslexia, after I got my AS in aero (for my A&P licenses) I started engineering school. Then a professor counseled me that he hoped I had 'backup' plans because dyslexic's make lousy engineers. Well, I love computers (built my first PC in 1977), how about Computer Science. Second semester, prof says, "I hope you have backup plans because.." Oh-oh. So I went into business. Now I manage designers, programmers, etc. Those that can't do, start a business. :)

WOW! I would have to disagree with your Professor, I bet you would have made a great engineer. Leonado Da Vinci was a dyslexic. My dad is a Mechanical Engineer and was involved in the space program. His group was involved in designing the landing gear on the Lunar Module. He was a great Engineer and was highly sought after in the Refining industry after we landed the men on the moon. He is now retired but also dyslexic. I am glad things worked out for you though.

VinCLT
05-06-05, 03:56 PM
I recall a post by Lingenfelter expressing a concern with heatsoak of the metal parts being used to replace the plastic parts between the airbox and the throttle body. I guess the question then becomes...are the benefits of better flow with the metal FFV part mitigated by the extra heat imparted to the air flowing to the TB? :hmm:

urbanski
05-06-05, 05:17 PM
StealthV disproved the "concern" that LPE had (they both introduced their competing intake designs simultaneously) by noting that an air molecule moves SO FAST through the short section of aluminum in his kit, that it simply has no time to pick up heat. My dyno before/after proves I got 20HP from it and the BB, so there we are :)

edit: air molecule? god i hate chemistry

StealthV
05-06-05, 05:46 PM
LPE doesn't live, sleep and dream about Vs 24/7 like I do. :)

VinCLT
05-06-05, 06:05 PM
:worship: StealthV...you are the "V" man!!! I am also interested in your FFV...that is why I am asking the question on the heat. Also, what are the differences in the LPE CAIK and the MP CAIK? :hmm:From the pictures...it appears that the LPE has a bigger air filter element and maybe even a bigger box that the element is housed in? Has anybody seen both side-by-side? I spoke with MP and they assured me that their unit will not whistle :suspect: ...so I am going to MP (since I am in Charlotte) for a CAI/Corsa and PCM Tune. I figured it would be PC...if I went with their product...what do you think they would say...if I chose to use the LPE over theirs?:canttalk:

cts-v ls6
05-06-05, 08:52 PM
I have the Stealth MAF-back in stainless steel and and a LPE / K&N filter. The combo is dynamite and as I've mentioned on several previous posts, the car revs like a Ferrari. When I'm at DynoTech in Ft. Wayne next month, I'll dyno the combo, along with my water methanol mod, and post the results. Yes, the stock setup is the exact length and diameter it needs to be to act as a Helmholtz resonator, and increase hp slightly at around 5800 rpm.

steve711
05-06-05, 09:07 PM
So its safe to say that by mixing the combo of the cylinder (and fittings) from the FFV by Stealth with the LPE open air housing & the K&N you'll get the best rezults right ?????

cts-v ls6
05-06-05, 09:36 PM
I did. I feel like it's the best of both worlds.

dreamcarc6
05-07-05, 12:45 PM
:worship: StealthV...you are the "V" man!!! I am also interested in your FFV...that is why I am asking the question on the heat. Also, what are the differences in the LPE CAIK and the MP CAIK? :hmm:From the pictures...it appears that the LPE has a bigger air filter element and maybe even a bigger box that the element is housed in? Has anybody seen both side-by-side? I spoke with MP and they assured me that their unit will not whistle :suspect: ...so I am going to MP (since I am in Charlotte) for a CAI/Corsa and PCM Tune. I figured it would be PC...if I went with their product...what do you think they would say...if I chose to use the LPE over theirs?:canttalk:

I have not heard any whistling with my MP. I have the FFV to, and I just think that both look really cool. I think you will be happy with your purchases from MP.