: Going to tear it all apart - water pump ?



jclayc
10-20-13, 06:01 PM
So I've decided to do some major work this winter - heads, cam, damper, radiator, oil pump, better power steering pump, power steering cooler, etc.

Should I go ahead and replace the water pump? Not much out there for the LS6 other than the Edelbrock 8896 with a LS2 thermostat housing or going all the way with a Meziere electric (at least $700). I've seen Fuzzy recommend the LS3 pump but it looks like the outlet is the wrong way...? Or I've seen some people recommend a LS2 pump...

As for the heads/cam - I'm leaning toward a TEA port/polish and a cam they recommend. From the flow numbers I've seen, that looks like the best bang for the buck.

As for the rockers, I'm leaning toward Yella Terra 6645 1.7 and have no idea how to find the right pushrod length at present. I'll figure that out and things like preload sooner or later...

PISNUOFF
10-21-13, 04:46 PM
Stock water pump flows fine.

Pushrod length is determined by a number of factors and will have to be measured after changing the cam, rockers, lifters (not mentioned but should be replaced) and machining to valve seats.

nikdsctsv
10-21-13, 05:10 PM
If you use stock head CC size(don't shave stock heads), and ls7 lifters, with stock head gaskets, pushrod length will be stock 7.400.

Like PISNUOFF said, the valve seats, but if buying TEA stage 2's they will be new already as that is included along with larger valves. Same goes for head shaving, as you have to send them your heads for the work. I believe they send the same heads you send them back after about 2 weeks.

Water pump...if it ain't broke don't fix it. Flows just fine, and if there is no problem with it then why change it?? it may go on to live a long and fruitful life. If it doesn't, it is easy to change so...yeah.

PISNUOFF
10-21-13, 06:00 PM
I'm betting you'll need 7.425" pushrods with just an aftermarket cam swap. Most continue to use the 7.400 length and are just fine with a smaller preload on the lifters. I run my Morel/Lunati lifters at .070 +/- .010 preload and they are super quiet. You'd never know I had a monster donkey dick camshaft with an aggressive ramp rate.

Never mind, the 6645's are adjustable so the 7.400 length will be close enough to the center of their adjustment and be just fine and should give a decent wipe pattern.

jclayc
10-21-13, 07:19 PM
Thanks for the input - I'll scratch a new water pump from the list since mine seems to be fine! We'll see if the alradco blows mine up.

As for the rockers and pushrods - from what I see, the Yella Terra 6645s say "non adjustable"... don't know how that impacts things. Also, I see Amazon has the 1.8 rato Yella Terras for $1 cheaper than the 1.7s. Any thoughts on the difference?

Yes, I was going to get LS7 lifters but I'm still shopping around on that decision. (I assume I'll get new trays too.) I'm sure I'll have to make some decisions about valve springs and trunion upgrades too. The preload part is the only thing I'm a little fearful of, but that's prob just b/c I haven't done my research yet & have never used a dial indicator before.

I haven't seen anyone talking about a power steering pump upgrade but I've seen some LS1 guys talk about Turn One's upgrade, so I'm going to give that a try as a separate project.

nikdsctsv
10-22-13, 10:24 AM
Thanks for the input - I'll scratch a new water pump from the list since mine seems to be fine! We'll see if the alradco blows mine up.

As for the rockers and pushrods - from what I see, the Yella Terra 6645s say "non adjustable"... don't know how that impacts things. Also, I see Amazon has the 1.8 rato Yella Terras for $1 cheaper than the 1.7s. Any thoughts on the difference?

Yes, I was going to get LS7 lifters but I'm still shopping around on that decision. (I assume I'll get new trays too.) I'm sure I'll have to make some decisions about valve springs and trunion upgrades too. The preload part is the only thing I'm a little fearful of, but that's prob just b/c I haven't done my research yet & have never used a dial indicator before.

I haven't seen anyone talking about a power steering pump upgrade but I've seen some LS1 guys talk about Turn One's upgrade, so I'm going to give that a try as a separate project.

This concerns me.

I understand this may be new to you, and depending on your ability to learn can be done. There is plenty of how to material out there for everything you plan on doing. But after reading this ^ I....would suggest you get a buddy or someone who has more experience doing some of this stuff to help out.

With that, you are a little confused about the trunion upgrade. That is an upgrade to the stock rockers, since you are going YT it is not needed. Also, stock rockers are 1.7. 1.8 will open your valves farther and with a big cam will require you to fly cut your pistons so that they do not hit the valves. So IMO go with the 1.7 non-adjustables.


Dial indicators are easy, just need to be setup right.

And I have no idea on the power steering upgrade.

lollygagger8
10-22-13, 10:46 AM
I did my AFR Mamo heads/cam and didn't replace my water pump, just the gaskets. You'll be fine with it.

I used the 1.7 Yella Terras, and they come with a small washer to raise the height a little to get a better wipe pattern if needed.

My Manton pushrods are 7.395 IIRC to let up on the preload of my LS7 lifters. I used the dial gauge, and it was sort of a pain to set up, but it needs to be done in order to measure correctly.

Read up on it. You'll figure it out.
http://ls1tech.com/forums/generation-iii-internal-engine/1207770-lifter-preload.html

jclayc
10-22-13, 10:51 AM
thanks nikdsctsv *L* yeah, I've never done something as deep as the heads/cam work. I still haven't ruled out having someone else do most of the work, either - maybe east coast supercharging, since they're relatively close. I'm still a few months (and a lot of research) from doing the work, regardless. That and my garage won't close w/ my car in it and it gets cold up here in NJ.

Like the trunions, the comment about the springs was misplaced b/c most head manufacturers/shops put on springs they recommend. Sometimes I post as I'm doing all my research instead of after searching (that never happens on forums, right *L*?). Also, as I'm reading, the adjustable rockers aren't really needed with hydraulic lifters & lifter preload set properly. Since the info I'm seeing recommends the 1.7 ratio rockers, and I don't want to significantly change the geometry - that alone is enough to dissuade me from the 1.8s but your input answers my overall theoretical question.

lolly - yeah, your how to on the other forum is my main source of info. I read through the pushrod and pre-load info in that post last night and will re-read it a few more times. Question: the Cometic 4.160 Bore .040 head gaskets are technically bigger than the LS6 bore of just over 3.9 - issue? I don't think it is but figured I'd ask.

philistine
10-22-13, 11:15 PM
This book is a good read and was recommended by a few forum members:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/193249460X/ref=oh_details_o07_s01_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

This series on youtube takes you into a lot of detail of rebuilding a LS1:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0L84CMHEqbU

jclayc
10-23-13, 12:07 AM
I've started going through How to Build High Performance Chevy LS1/LS6 V-8s (http://www.amazon.com/How-Build-High-Performance-Chevy-V-8s/dp/1884089844)but I've seen How to Rebuild GM LS-Series Engines recommended as well - ordered! Thanks

RyRidesMotoX
10-23-13, 01:05 AM
I've been looking at the same upgrades. Mine is a daily driver do I can't have it down for 2 weeks plus the time to remove/install the heads. I looked at the PRC heads. They use a 243 casting and come with larger valves. They claim they are built to bolt into a stock LS1/6 block with no modifications. I know a few his local to me that run PRC heads and are reasonably happy with them. Last I checked it was like $1599+/- for heads. And that is with no core or anything. So its a whole new set. So that leaves you with your stockers to sell to a guy with an LS1 for an upgrade. Kind of attractive to me at least since mine can't be down for weeks at a time. Just figured I'd throw in my little bit of research. I have also looked at Lloyd Elliot, AFR, and others. It just seems like the PRCs are decent enough to consider.

Here are the ones I am considering

http://www.texas-speed.com/p-4-prc-stage-25-ls6-cnc-ported-heads.aspx

They also have a stage 3 head, but I'm not looking to drop $2k on heads. Basically just a little bit larger valves.

http://www.texas-speed.com/p-1177-prc-stage-3-ls6-cnc-ported-heads.aspx

jclayc
10-23-13, 08:17 AM
What cam are you thinking about?

RyRidesMotoX
10-23-13, 02:45 PM
I'm going to talk to Martin at tick performance for the new cam when the time for the heads come. I still haven't decided on the heads yet and as long ad the wedding is still hanging over my head its just a pip dream. There are tons of options though. But guys like martin can spec a good cam. Just let him know what you want, what you have, and what your heads should be able to flow at whatever lift range. And what springs and stuff. I'm probably going to end up buying an off the shelf SNS stage 1 or stage 2 mild cam from tick. Again, mine is a daily driver so I don't want to beat the valvetrain like a $3 hooker and then have to change/check things every oil change.