: Getting confused about the shifter



GSRswapandslow
10-16-13, 11:16 AM
I've read so many threads that I'm getting myself confused. The shifter in my V SUCKS.... It's spongy and loose, and is hard to get into first and reverse. If i'm sitting still and pull it out of first...sometimes if feels like it's almost locked out when I try to go back in.

I want to replace everything I can to make it better...

I know that the seemingly go-to shifter is one of pissnuoff's. I plan on doing that soon. I also read that he offers some bushings, but I'm lost as to which ones as I can't find any diagrams. Does he offer the bushings that go in the bottom of the actual shifter...that attaches to the linkage to the tranny?

I also see some folks talking about home depot bushings....and I take it those are for the support rods that bolt to the transmission. Those have to be replaced with the tranny out....cool. Are these worth the effort? Everything else can be done without dropping the tranny...

The other bushings are for the opposite end of the support rods, right? Near the actual shifter. I see the CS bushings on their site...but have read mixed reviews about them, some even claiming they're worse than stock. So the other suggestion is some from UUC....but where the hell is direct link to those? I saw mention that you can get them from Lindsay Cadillac...but they're not listed on their website... How much are they? and are the UUC better than the CS???

The last thing is the pin that goes through the linkage into the tranny. I've read about jb weld, drilling it out to match the other pin size to other stuff. Is there a definitive solution to this yet?

Ultimately....from what I've gathered...i need to:
1. order the pissnuoff modified shifter and send in my core. drill the rivets and flip the cup. follow that up with the bushings that go into the actual base of the shifter.

2. order either the UUC or the CS support rod bushings to install as I do the shifter. There's two, they slide onto the support rods and then the plate that bolts under the console goes over them.

3. go to homeboy depot and pick up some grey plastic things.....cut/file them till they are the correct width....drop tranny and put em in. if applicable.

4. possibly do something about the pin slop on the linkage/trans union

is that it? Will these steps make me have the best shifter I can possibly have....IN THIS car?

AAIIIC
10-16-13, 12:15 PM
I have no experience with #3 of #4. I did #1 and #2 on my car and on my brother's car. (I'm using UUC bushings and a UUC shifter in my car; brother's car got UUC bushings, and a home-brew shifter that was basically the same as PISNUOFF's, and PISNUOFF's pivot bushing.)

On my car, the shifter wasn't that bad (I installed the UUC one pretty early in the car's life), so the difference wasn't huge, but it still tightened things up, and it still feels fine to me 3 or 4 years later.

On my brother's car, the difference WAS huge - his shifter had degraded to the point that it was doing the things you talked about (wouldn't go into gear at all sometimes, getting into R was damn near impossible, so much slop your fingertips would brush the center stack when you went to R, etc etc). He hated driving the favorite car he's ever owned. After we did the shifter, pivot bushing, and support rod bushings, he was back in love with the car.

So, my vote is to do #1 and #2, which are the 95% solution. #3 and #4 will give you the remaining 5%, but at the cost of a lot more effort. If you want the UUC bushings, just call Luke @ Lindsay - you won't find that sort of stuff on their website, it's just something that Luke manages.

PISNUOFF
10-16-13, 12:36 PM
I replace the bushings in the base of the shifter when I modify shifters.


There is a lot to read here but it will tell you everything you want up know.

http://ls1tech.com/forums/cadillac-cts-v/1517800-b-m-shifter.html

jclayc
10-16-13, 12:55 PM
I believe, for #4, what you're looking for is the Bronze Shifter Isolator Cup Bushing (http://www.tickperformance.com/tickshift-95-isolator-cup-bronze-upgraded/). It's what sits inside the top of the trans - the shifter goes into this cup. The bronze one replaces the plastic cup that's there and usually worn.

I had to dremel off a bit from the sides of the flange to get mine to fit down to where I could get it into the cup "holder" the plastic one came out of.

I replaced my trans bushing at the same time so I can't tell for sure but I believe it tightened up my slop a bit...

GSRswapandslow
10-16-13, 01:42 PM
I replace the bushings in the base of the shifter when I modify shifters.


There is a lot to read here but it will tell you everything you want up know.

http://ls1tech.com/forums/cadillac-cts-v/1517800-b-m-shifter.html

nice....i saw that link pop up in a search buy disregarded it since it was initially referenced to a B&M...

so on your shifter, the bushings are included in the $300 (core included) price? What other items do you offer?

i have to go to San Diego all next week and had planned on pulling my shifter to send to you, but haven't had a chance....I guess that'll happen right when I get back.

kyle242gt
10-16-13, 01:59 PM
I recommend trying to figure out where the slop is instead of just throwing parts and money at it.

When I had my exhaust off (to do diff bushing) it was very obvious where the slop was - the white plastic bushings where the shifter meets the linkage. The linkage didn't have any noticeable slop.

I wrapped the bushings in aluminum tape, forced them back in, and it's 95% better.

CSTech
10-16-13, 03:15 PM
I see the CS bushings on their site...but have read mixed reviews about them, some even claiming they're worse than stock.


Since when and where has that been the case? We have sent hundreds of these bushings out with people telling us they are fantastic and have helped. It is only one piece of the puzzle, however, and the other bushings help as well. But I will guarantee, the stock bushings aren't even comparable. If you are going to get a UUC shifter, it comes with their bushings and you may as well use them. If they work for you, fantastic. If not, give us a call.


Thanks,
Jordan

PISNUOFF
10-16-13, 05:33 PM
I can't recal hearing anything bad about the CS polyurethane shifter bushings either.

Usually, 90% of the play is with the bushings at the base of the shifter. Replacing the outer bushings with polyurethane ones and installing one of my shifters makes most people happy about their shifter.

I have a few bronze shifter cups that go inside the trans and I make bronze bushings that go on the center bar at the trans end.

dmax/04v
10-16-13, 06:10 PM
CS poly bushings made a world of difference on mine, swapped them at about 103K miles so the stockers were just about pancaked. As noted a new or upgraded stock shifter makes the most difference, I hear good things about the pisnuoff shifters; I myself have a katech shifter and love it longtime.

FuzzyLogic
10-16-13, 10:12 PM
I can't recal hearing anything bad about the CS polyurethane shifter bushings either.

Usually, 90% of the play is with the bushings at the base of the shifter. Replacing the outer bushings with polyurethane ones and installing one of my shifters makes most people happy about their shifter.

I have a few bronze shifter cups that go inside the trans and I make bronze bushings that go on the center bar at the trans end.

I was the one that compared the Creative Steel bushings against the UUC bushings and the stock bushings. OEM < Creative Steel << UUC. The Creative Steel poly (if it's even poly) is incredibly soft--like 40A on the hardness scale--and the bushings have a lip on only one side, which may allow them to slip off the rail. In my testing this summer, I found that three-year-old UUC bushings provided better side-to-side stability than brand new Creative Steel bushings. If anything, I'd like to see a company build some 95A or Delrin bushings for this application.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v219/QuicksilverG4/CTS-V%20Linkage%20Bushing%20Measurements/High-LevelUUCandCreativeSteelComparison_zps62b2f565.jpg
UUC (Installed) on the left, Creative Steel on the right

With regards to #3, I highly recommend replacing the rubber bushings per the 48 cent Home Depot mod (you'll need to reuse the steel cores--it'll be obvious when you look at it). No additional vibration, and vastly better all-around stability.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v219/QuicksilverG4/CTS-V%20Linkage%20Bushing%20Measurements/OEMForwardLinkageBushingLength_zpsd6a5c089.jpg
Shifter rails with Home Depot bushings vs. stock rubber bushing

philistine
10-16-13, 10:27 PM
To the OP. I have a Katech shifter with PISNUOFF Delrin shifter bushing along with the brass ones. I did the Home Depot bushing and brass cup thing and also installed UUC bushings...still have a spare set.

Get a good shifter and change all those bushings...you'll be in great shape.

69stangscj
10-17-13, 07:31 AM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v219/QuicksilverG4/CTS-V%20Linkage%20Bushing%20Measurements/High-LevelUUCandCreativeSteelComparison_zps62b2f565.jpg
UUC (Installed) on the left, Creative Steel on the right
How are these removed? Can they be replaced from inside the car?

PISNUOFF
10-17-13, 07:49 AM
The little bit of play when installing the poly bushings is completely negated when the bolts are tightened. It's also impossible for them to slide off during use if they are installed properly, the shoulder goes towards the rear of the vehicle and is blocked from falling out by the shifter holding plate. It's clearly shown above how they would not fall out if installed this way. Your issue with them has absolutely no engineering or practical merit.

69stangscj - You have to remove the two bolts and drill out the rivets that hold the shifter assembly to the body and linkage plate, then the polyurethane ones can be swapped from the top.

AAIIIC
10-17-13, 08:23 AM
It's also impossible for them to slide off during use if they are installed properly, the shoulder goes towards the rear of the vehicle and is blocked from falling out by the shifter holding plate. It's clearly shown above how they would not fall out if installed this way. Your issue with them has absolutely no engineering or practical merit.
I believe the CS bushings are designed that way because folks complained it was such a pain in the ass to get the bracket installed over the UUC bushings. I haven't seen anyone post about the CS bushings somehow coming out of the bracket, so I agree with PISNUOFF on this one.


How are these removed? Can they be replaced from inside the car?
Yes, they can. Any of the various threads about installing a shifter will show you what needs to be done.

FuzzyLogic
10-17-13, 11:08 AM
The little bit of play when installing the poly bushings is completely negated when the bolts are tightened. It's also impossible for them to slide off during use if they are installed properly, the shoulder goes towards the rear of the vehicle and is blocked from falling out by the shifter holding plate. It's clearly shown above how they would not fall out if installed this way. Your issue with them has absolutely no engineering or practical merit.

Your assertion, which is that the shifter plate bolts prevent movement of the bushings, is incorrect. Those bolts are the REASON for the distortion of the bushings. Whenever there's a relative motion between the transmission and the body of the car (e.g. driveline lash), the plate slides up and down the shifter rails, yanking the bushings with it.

I've seen both the stock and UUC bushings start to twist (think: indian burn) and slide out in either direction. 4-5 times. Last weekend was the 11th time I've had the transmission out over the past 3 years, so I've never given the car time enough to know whether the bushing travel will eventually stop or continue and pop out and fall on the ground.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v219/QuicksilverG4/CTS-V/ShifterLinkageUpgrades3_zpse0350fc9.jpg

PISNUOFF
10-17-13, 12:26 PM
When in the installed position, the plate that the shifter bolts to will not allow the bushings to move rearward. The extra play during installation is taken up when the bushing rail is tightened to the body.

I'd be more suspicious that you are doing something wrong if you've seen it 4-5 times and no one else has an issue.

GSRswapandslow
10-17-13, 12:31 PM
ok, well i'm about to order the CS bushings after I get a return PM from them on another product... they're cheap enough that it can't hurt to at least try.

FuzzyLogic
10-17-13, 01:58 PM
When in the installed position, the plate that the shifter bolts to will not allow the bushings to move rearward. The extra play during installation is taken up when the bushing rail is tightened to the body.

I'd be more suspicious that you are doing something wrong if you've seen it 4-5 times and no one else has an issue.

When the driveline kicks backwards, the plate stays still relative to the car. That has a tendency to drag the bushings out the back of the plate.

I'm probably making this sound a lot more dramatic than it is. The bushings were still 3/4 of the way in place each time I reset them, but I still wonder what would have happened if I let it go. AFAIK, the permanent solution will be a 8.8" or 9" differential and one-piece driveshaft, which won't permit the ridiculous degree of driveline lash that the OEM one does. It's a miracle that I haven't destroyed my differential yet.

fweasel
10-17-13, 09:31 PM
I installed a PiSNUOFF shifter, uuc bushings, rev shift trans insert and motor mounts with little improvement on the sloppy shifter feel and reverse difficulties. Round 2 parts are sitting on the work bench... Brass linkage bushings from PiSNUOFF, Home Depot bushings, and brass shifter cup for inside the trans. I also plan on tack welding the linkage at the pivot pin union.

The link provided in post 3 is very informative in worth the 20 minutes.

odla
10-18-13, 01:39 PM
I just got the cs bushings to try and install this weekend. I had the uuc ones in the car. One side fell out and the other only has half of one in. Had them in the car for about 4-5 years. Track days and dd kid duty. I just replaced the stock ones on my wife's car with uuc and it was a pain in the ass. That is why i'm trying the cs ones now.

Dan_Gurney
10-19-13, 01:09 AM
I wouldn't drop the trans for #3 and #4. I did them when i did my flywheel, and they made it better, but not drop the trans better.