: *98 Deville- Coolant in Oil?



avokshi
04-24-05, 03:28 PM
Hello,

We took the '98 Deville in to our mechanic because there was coolant all over the top pf the engine and it was "burning", the coolant and not the engine). (I posted about a bizarre coolant loss/ a/c problem before.) they replaced a hose that was supposed to have been leaking , I tentatively asked whether there was a head gasket problem -they said no, the car ran fine for a few weeks, even the A/C was working properly again. Now this...

The car started needing coolant every couple of days and shaking violently when started again, then one day it started overheating and even cut out, my husband noticed that the oil light was now on in conjunction with the check coolant level light, even after he added coolant. (This all appened within 20 minutes). He says that the oil looks overly full and I am concerned hat there is coolant in the engine, although this is not certain. At the same time I understand that this is nearly impossible with a Northstar engine.

Any other possibilities except oil cooler or head gaskets or how to diagnose the above?

Advice much appreciated.







:( :(

mechanix
04-24-05, 06:14 PM
The symptoms you describe could be associated with head gasket failure all right, but they are not conclusive. Head gasket failure may present with several different symptoms, depending on where the breach occured on the gasket. You can check for water (coolant) in the oil very quickly by examning the engine oil dipstick and the oil filler cap. There will be a thick, yellow or white sludge present on the bottom of the filler cap and/or the dipstick if coolant is reaching the engine oil. Also, allow the car to set for 24 hours without running the engine. Then remove the oil drain plug and take note of what comes out, initially. Water is heavier than oil and it will settle to the bottom of the oil pan overnight.

If an oil cooler rupture is suspect, check for oil in the coolant. Whenever the engine is running, oil pressure is much greater than the coolant pressure, and the oil ends up in the coolant. Only when the engine is warmed up to operating temperature and then shut down does the situation reverse, with the coolant pressure becomming greater than the oil pressure. If the two liquids are communicating within the oil cooler, oil will be floating on top of the coolant in the radiator or in the coolant recovery tank.

avokshi
04-24-05, 06:49 PM
Thanks Mechanix;

I checked (except the oil pan)and didn't find any of the symptoms that you described above. The check engine light is now staying on. The oil dipstick is well over max, I understand that this is not good. but at the same time the 0% oil life indicator is consistent with a 3k mile change. (I understand that the car is not smart enough to give this message of its own volition). I even looked in the coolant reservoir and saw no "bubbling". The oil was opaque but not thick, I supppose that this is consistent with needing changed rathr than the "chocolate milk" of gasket failure.

I understand that on the day of the "crisis" there was smoke/steam coming from the engine and it was overheating, unusual for a Northstar? an definitely unsusal for our car, despite the coolant trouble., we still don't know where the coolant is going, it doesn't appear under the car. I suppose it is being burned off. One mechanic changed the coolant cap, a second, who I trust, changed a hose, the first one claimed to have pressure tested the system and found no leaks. ) unless we have discovered a wormhole to another dimension in the coolant tank or reservoir!)

I wait to hear the diagnosis tommorow, holding out hope for something other than gasket failure,

Thanks again for the advice!

powerglide
04-24-05, 07:40 PM
BTW how many miles on your engine?

zonie77
04-25-05, 01:53 AM
As you mentioned in the first post, the N* doesn't put coolant in the water until the headgaskets are almost gone. It's just how the engine was designed.

But you say your oil is overfull...so I'd have to think it's either coolant, or a stuck open injector putting excess gas into the oil. Does the oil smell like gas? That could be the rough running. It's odd you'd have a ck oil light with the crankcase full.

It would be a good idea to get the oil changed right away to really see what you have. Take a look at it when it is drained.

A compression test (at the minimum) or preferably a cyl pressure test is in order.

mechanix
04-25-05, 01:37 PM
I have taken an interest in your situation Avokshi, and read all your posts concerning the problem. And after making a list of all the symptoms you described and reviewing them, my diagnosis is...HEAD GASKET(S)! *lol* Sorry, but that's what it sounds like to me. When mine failed, I lost coolant into the valley of the engine, which drained down and out on the road. It only occurred when the car was running down the road, so it was hard to detect. I could not duplicate those conditions in the shop and get it to leak.

The A/C system cuts out when the PCM detects low coolant or high engine temp.
in order to conserve engine power. The N* is a funny bird - it doesn't always react the way typical engines do when problems occur. For example, my engine showed no loss of compression when my head gasket failed. Compression tests showed 185 lbs. on all cylinders. Go figure! *lol* I had no coolant in the oil either. Two classic signs of head gasket failure which were not present at all! Bottom line is, you have replaced the cap with one that you know is good (tested, I presume), you are not losing coolant through the heater core which would be leaking into the passenger compartment, you have fixed all the external leaks, the coolant loss precedes the overheating and you are not getting oil into the cooling system. So what else could it be?

The violent shaking at start-up is probably water in the cylinders trying to compress, and the rise in oil level is the coolant going into the pan. The steam comes from coolant leaking out on to the engine, probably into the Vee of the engine block, as mine did. I could see "high water marks" in the valley upon teardown that indicated as much as three inches of liquid was filling up the vee, then slowly draining back out onto the ground. I never did see a leak out the bottom of the car when I looked underneath. Diagnosing N* head gasket failure is often confirmed by simply eliminating all other possible causes, as it was in my case. I had my radiator reworked, replaced the thermostat, the water pump, the cap, flushed it out...and still it overheated and blew the coolant out.

Someone suggested a stuck injector putting fuel into the crankcase, and that is certainly a possibility that might cause several of the symptoms you describe. But I think if that were true, you would notice that the first time you pulled the dipstick and all the oil ran off it because the oil is so thinned out. And you would smell gas instantly too. Just for curiosity, why don't you pull the oil drain plug and see what comes out first? I'll bet it's coolant! :sneaky:

avokshi
04-25-05, 02:30 PM
Thanks again Mechanix,

The car is in the shop as we speak, I will ask "what" came out in the pan. After I checked the dashboard myself, the oil light is not on just a message saying 0% oil life left. The oil did not smell gassy, I do not think that it was thin either.

We have abut 76,000 miles at present, Powerglide.

I am asking for an oil change and am having the system flushed and replaced with Dexcool, as well as of course troubleshooting the leakage.

I really really hope that it isn't the Head gasket, keep you posted...

Thanks.

MightyBright1
04-25-05, 06:20 PM
"The A/C system cuts out when the PCM detects low coolant or high engine temp."
Would this cause the cooling fans to act up... During my driving with bad gaskets the fans would cut out. I could get them to come back on by turning on/off the AC and reseting the computer while driving...

mechanix
04-25-05, 11:15 PM
I'm no authority on the subject, but the cooling fans typically come on at start up for a minute or so, then kick off. They don't come back on again until engine temp reaches 235-240. I don't know how you were able to engage the fans by clearing the DTCs, but that's a neat trick! *lol*

MightyBright1
04-26-05, 07:47 AM
I did this because I took the car in to the dealer cause the fans were not working. They cleared the codes and they worked for about 20 miles before they stoped working and overheating the car. @ $100 for 20 miles I figured I would clear them myself. But they would only work for a few miles or so when I clear them.

avokshi
04-26-05, 08:37 AM
Yes, according to our local mechanic, definitely head gaskets and they don't want to touch the N* so we left the car at a dealer. Discovered that the car was certified untill 5k miles ago- interesting, no tsure exactly what this means and hence had a pile of work done in the past. HVAC, A/C new Radiator and more. They don't know exactly but were saying 30 hours labor, is this true?

mechanix
04-26-05, 11:07 AM
Avokshi, if they can pull the engine, timesert it and reinstall it in 30 hrs. they are doing good. That is a fair price indeed if their labor rate is < $60/hr. By the time you add tax and all the extras, I'm sure your bill will be well over $2K before you are out the door with it. And sadly, that's only a "wham, bam, thank you ma'am" job. I doubt they will even look at things like head warpage or valve seating. As I said before, both had to be addressed on my engine while it was apart. Seems like an extraordinary amount of money until you consider that the N* is 250K mile engine when properly maintained. The headbolt thread weakness is unfortunate, but once you get past that you should have an engine that will out-last the car. I wish you lived a little closer to me - I could probably save you some money on the labor! *lol*

MightyBright1, your fans shouldn't be coming on during routine driving in Spring time weather. You must be running hot. The fans only kick on when the engine is way hot, as a means of bringing that engine heat back down to an acceptable level. You should be at 206-216 degrees if everything is ok with the cooling system.

avokshi
04-26-05, 11:27 AM
They were "ballparking" $3k labour and $200 parts, However they are inspecting the vehicle themselves this morning. We are also getting a GoodWrench inspection, hopefully that won't turn anything else up. Looking at that the labor rate is more like $94, probably cheaper to hire an attorney...

Yes, reading the high mileage thread on this forum definitely eased my mind about making this decision, also it made me suspect that our 1980 Eldorado (currently showing at 40k miles, may have been around the odometer a fair few times.

I wish indeed that you were local, or better yet, to be a mechanic myself

Regards,

mtflight
04-26-05, 12:34 PM
I wonder if this was a cooling system issue, maybe the coolant was never replaced or did not have the sealant in it. But then again, you did mention that the radiator had been replaced under warranty--presumably the car had an overheating history (telltale sign headgaskets were weakened).

Mechanix, what about in your case? Why do you attribute the failure?

My understanding, from reading other postings on here, is that the headgasket job is not too common--and almost always due to cooling system failures, and other times from neglecting the system or not adding the sealant. We read about it so much because it's usually frustrated owners that find somewhere to vent. The happy ones usually don't find somewhere to complain--because they don't have any complaints.

As a matter of fact, I was very aware of the sealant when I had my car inspected prior to purchase--so I was asking all sorts of questions about the sealant. They looked at me like I was crazy. "You only need the sealant if you have a leak." I never went back to that place. As soon as I purchased it, I drained and re-filled the cooling system, as well as added the sealant to the hose (2 tubes of barsleak powder).

Mechanix, I have a warranty, but if I ever have the headgasket problem--I'll ship my car to you and spend a weekend assisting you in fixing it. I've seen you offer help before, and you have experience doing it. I'm closeby too (north Texas); however, I hope never to have that problem with good preventive maintenance, and never letting the car overheat if I can help it.

Regards,
Alex

outlaw1369
04-26-05, 01:34 PM
Save yourself $1000.00 and find a reputible mechanic to do the work. Had mine done with head resurfacing for $2200 - Had to use the "bigserts" beacause of a helicoil job that was done previously and finially failed. Dealerships are way too pricey.

avokshi
04-26-05, 02:20 PM
Thanks, Cadillac Fan..
The words "reputable" and "mechanic" do not go together well here in Florida.
They are also checking for head warpage and replacing the valve covers $3200, total. Since we had the car it only threatened overheating on time, my husband immediately pulled over and added coolant, How likely is head warpage, and can it be fixed and if so how much?

avokshi
04-26-05, 03:59 PM
Hey Alex,

The car had a slight shake and was losing coolant whenw e first bought it, there was also a check engine light. However, a condition of the sale was that they would fix the problem, we had the codes checked ourselves by an independent mechanic and they were for 02 sensors and a worn belt. WE got the dealer to fix these and they assigned the coolant leak to a leaky cap which was replaced, after they pressure tested the system, or so they said. It ran fine for a few weeks and then once more we were losing coolant, took it to our local shop, they detected the hose problem and replaced it. And now we start losing coolant again, the car overheats for about 10 minutes and voila the head gasket valve heads and possibly warped heads situation,(the warped heads have not been diagnosed but i think that they are likely under the circs.) I STILL DON'T KNOW HOW MUCH I SHOULD EXPECT TO PAY FOR THESE...being machined, sent away etc. The valves/gasket are costing $3400 right now.

Since it seems likely that they coolant prblem caused the head gasket failure, and the car was purchased in february is it worth pursuing the dealer legally or is the chain of events too tenuous? Any ideas? (the dealer delayed addressing the problem for several weeks as their shop was full).

Thanks, advice welcome.

mtflight
04-26-05, 04:08 PM
I'm no legal specialist, but did you sign an "as is agreement"? Regardless, they said the problem with the cooling system leak was a leaky cap, yet it wasn't.

Also, the car likely had an overheating history or the radiator would not have been replaced prior to your purchase. These signs were disclosed much too late for you to be aware of them.

Was this a Cadillac dealership? I would certainly look for legal alternatives, unless you got the car dirt-cheap, WITH knowledge it was a timebomb.

Good luck.

Alex

avokshi
04-26-05, 04:17 PM
Thanks,

We do have a "we owe" slip if paper, promising to fix the shake and the codes, we never signed anything to say that it was done, On the other hand it was sold "as is" and we have signed an agreement that legal action must go to mediation. Price was $10 k which is the higher blue book price, but the car is very well kept, physically and they promised to fix the shake and the codes. Sadl y they are a sleazy dealer not a cadillac dealer. We did leave the car in their care 3 times, with nothing being resolved as it now appears. My gut feeling is that this is not worth pursuing. It's half paid for right now and I got them to defer payment for a month to help us meet the repair cost. I was thinking, after I get the repair done and get the payments up to date, then to speak with their VP.

As far as I am concerned they are seconds away from an attorney general investigation due to some deceptive sales practices anyway. Someone even set fire to some of their cars and beat up some of their workers,this is sad but they brought it on themselves. so they are not very popular....we will see

powerglide
04-26-05, 04:21 PM
As far as I am concerned they are seconds away from an attorney general investigation due to some deceptive sales practices anyway. Someone even set fire to some of their cars and beat up some of their workers,this is sad but they brought it on themselves. so they are not very popular....we will see


Sounds like they have a history of screwing folks over!
You may have case, jump on the bandwagon.....it sounds like they knew about the problem.

As for getting it fixed, like you said, its half done already....just get it complete so you can drive it again....toherwise waiting for restitution can take months if not more.

mtflight
04-26-05, 04:53 PM
Thanks, Cadillac Fan..
The words "reputable" and "mechanic" do not go together well here in Florida.
They are also checking for head warpage and replacing the valve covers $3200, total. Since we had the car it only threatened overheating on time, my husband immediately pulled over and added coolant, How likely is head warpage, and can it be fixed and if so how much?

They should Timesert ALL the headbolts, not just the ones that they feel need it--or you will need to repeat the repair down the line. Make sure this is clear.

Also, when this is said and done, you need to be sure the coolant supplement is added to prevent any leaks down the line.

avokshi
04-26-05, 06:37 PM
There was a 30 day warranty on the drivetrain, they would pay for the labor, obviously they allowed that period of time to expire while they were screwing around. Yes fix first ask questions later. The shop still hasn't got allthe way inside to detect warped heads and give me a quote on that piece yet. I find the attorney general breathing down the neck of the other party really helps in a mediation situation, hopefully the AG office is interested.

I forgot to mention that we had a low speed front end collision a few weeks ago, just as we were pulling out of the dealers shop the last time, we were doing about 15-18 mph, failed to completely stop at the stop sign on this tiny residential street and alady was doing at least 45 came out of nowhere, the hood is a little dented, the grill is a little loose and the bumper is scratched and the mudguard is hanging down.

Could this have caused the gasket problem?

We got quotes ranging from $600 to $2300 on the bodywork. It seems minor to me. (her car had both doors smashed in).

mtflight
04-26-05, 07:01 PM
I forgot to mention that we had a low speed front end collision a few weeks ago, just as we were pulling out of the dealers shop the last time, we were doing about 15-18 mph, failed to completely stop at the stop sign on this tiny residential street and alady was doing at least 45 came out of nowhere, the hood is a little dented, the grill is a little loose and the bumper is scratched and the mudguard is hanging down.

Could this have caused the gasket problem?

Nope. Headgasket failure is usually from either

1)corrosion, resulting from not replacing the coolant before its corrosion inhibitors wear off,

2)leak/seepage due to not using the coolant sealing supplement (required as per GM specs--reminders of this are posted under the hood)

3) overheating (any part of the cooling system breaking down)

or a combination of say, 1 and 2.

Unless your radiator sprung a leak after the impact, and the subsequent loss of coolant caused the overheat, there is no connection. Possibly they may try to argue otherwise.

mechanix
04-26-05, 07:37 PM
OK. Several issues to address here, so I will try to be concise.

First of all, y'all are getting the cart in front of the horse. *lol* It's not the coolant problem that causes head gasket failure - it's the other way around. To keep production costs minimal and remain competitive, GM does not put steel thread inserts in the block at the factory. The cast aluminum threads usually hold long enough to outlive the warranty, but the vibration and torque stress eventually gets the best of them and they crumble like month-old bread! This is one of the well known N* weaknesses. The head bolt threads break out allowing the head bolts to lose their clamping force on the head gasket. Once that occurs, the compression is easily pushed out of the cylinder and into the water jacket which results in way too much pressure in the cooling system. The coolant then exits via an external leak or out past a pressure cap that is set to purge at 22 psi.

The other known weak points are leaking half-cases and rear crankshaft seals. I don't know what the failure rate is, but it is significant. Most of us do not discover all this until AFTER we have purchased our Caddies!! *lol* So we can either cough up the dough to fix it and end up with a fine, luxury car, or get rid of it and cut our losses.

As for the sealant pellets that mtflight eludes to, they are controversial. The esteemed Bbob who posts regularly on here is in great support of this practice and highly encourages it. And since he is Cadillac engineer, he is high on my credibility list. However, my position is that if everything is correct in the assembly, no sealant is necessary. I feel that if that stuff will plug a leak, it will also plug a radiator tube or a water passage in time. I run NO SEALER in my car and I have no leaks whatsoever. But my opinion is biased because I never have placed much stock in additives of any kind. I have never seen a one that does what it claims. Conversely, if you feel better with a little "extra insurance" against leaks, that is your call. I don't guess that having it in there is going to cause any real significant problems. You be the judge.

Just curious avokshi...why are they replacing the valve covers? Most of the time these heads are warped a little when you pull them off. They are after all, aluminum. And as such, they are prone to warpage from all the thermal changes. The specs say that .002" is allowed, and mine were warped .003" in a couple of places so I had them shaved. Around here, you can get that done for around $60-$75. It's not a big deal. What IS a big deal is the valves. Repeated overheating can cause the valves to overheat and transfer metal from valve to valve seat. I don't think you have a thing to worry about in this area at all. If your engine never exceeded 260 degrees, I wouldn't give it another thought. Mine overheated several times on me, and God knows how many times on the previous owner, so my valves were in sad shape. Since I have the equipment to do the head work here in my shop, I went ahead and did a valve grind while it was apart.

Last but not least, *lol* it sounds like "Honest John Used Cars" is pretty good shape, legally. If they agreed to correct an 02 sensor and driveability problem (shaking), and you signed an "as is - no warranty" disclaimer, then their liability is limited to those two items. But seriously, $10K is a pretty good price to pay for $45K car, and a couple grand more still leaves you in pretty good shape. I would think the cost of litigation would be equal to or greater than the repairs you are facing, with an uncertain outcome. And in the event you were to win a civil suit against "Honest John," and he had to pay for repairs, the judgement could allow him to have it repaired at a garage of his chosing. In which case, the work would probably be questionable at best.

I purchased my car under pretty much the same conditions as you did, and I was content just to bite the bullet and absorb the cost of repairs. Mine overheated the DAY AFTER I BOUGHT IT, and it sat in my garage for a YEAR until I could fix it! *lol* Now I am driving my beautiful Cadillac that is in perfect mechanical condition, and I couldn't be happier!

One final note: as mtflight suggests, make sure the shop does ALL TWENTY head bolt holes and gives you a warranty on repairs. Also, replace the rear crankshaft seal and the transmission front pump seal while the engine is out of the car. These are $25 worth of seals that require $2K in labor to change if they start leaking later on! If you don't change them, then they are not covered under the repair warranty. The shop probably won't change them unless you tell them to, since they may not be leaking at the time. Then take it out and stomp on it a few times to make sure that everything is going to stay together! *lol* I hope everything turns out well for you. Keep us posted!

mtflight
04-27-05, 12:46 AM
While I respect your knowledge and authority, I hope what you wrote is an assumption. As we all know, heat is what ultimately kills any engine--overheating expedites failiure. When the Northstar overheats, the differeces in rate of expansion of aluminum vs the rate of expansion of the steel head bolts within it probably account for the threads being pulled (as well as the concurrent head gasket fatigue).

In all likelihood your car had overheated in the past, as had Avokshi's (presumably explaining the replaced radiator)--which is cause enough to affect the gasket and threads. Overheat kills the headgaskets (and warps other things too).

On here I've seen failed headgasket pictures that look corroded--Bbobinsky said it was probably due to the coolant being "stale" (e.g., the corrosion inhibitors were worn off--it was not replaced).

The sealant pellets are necessary because the block is cast aluminum, which by itself implies cast porosities. The numbers of Northstars produced would also suggest that there is not enough attention to hand-finishing and inspecting in order to precisely examine for imperfections in casting. The prescribed sealant (it's right there on the label by the radiator/hood latch) is not necessarily to correct leaks as much as it is to PREVENT them.

It would be insightful to post your comments as a new thread, to read what kind of responses it gets.

The sampling of folks on this forum suggests that the problem is not as big or broad as it seems--but rather like I said before, it is due to folks finding an outlet to vent about the problem or to find others in the same boat.

I could be wrong, but it's highly unlikely, haha, just kidding--I'm learning.
:halo:
Regards,

Alex

PS sign me up for your Timeserting services if I ever need a headgasket job--I'm a few hours away from you.

mechanix
04-27-05, 07:22 PM
I'm not sure what your point is exactly sir, but I'm not big on assumptions. When I post information on here it is based on what I have seen over the years and what works best for me. If you like the pellets...use them. I don't. And if you are suggesting that I am full of crap and everyone on the forum would disagree with me...they might...but it wouldn't change my opinion any. Since you seem to have all the answers already, it causes me to wonder why you asked for mine. Good day.

mtflight
04-27-05, 09:23 PM
I'm not sure what your point is exactly sir, but I'm not big on assumptions. When I post information on here it is based on what I have seen over the years and what works best for me. If you like the pellets...use them. I don't. And if you are suggesting that I am full of crap and everyone on the forum would disagree with me...they might...but it wouldn't change my opinion any. Since you seem to have all the answers already, it causes me to wonder why you asked for mine. Good day.

I apologize if I came across in a negative way--it was not my intention. :rolleyes2 This is a forum where we all share information in hopes of learning from others, at least that's my goal here. Never did I intend to insult, as a matter of fact I respect you and every other member on this forum.

I especially respect you, your knowledge, and your practical experience (the latter of which I lack). My attempt was to pose the "other" perspective on the headgasket causes so as to offer contrast and what seems a diagnosis that offers the end-user more control over consequence, and to let the readers provide further input or simply put the word out.

I reiterate, please no hard feelings, I truly mean it when I say that if I had the problem (knock on wood), I would ask you for help with it (and I would be a willing assistant). Please accept my apologies.

Sincerely,

Alex

mechanix
04-27-05, 10:36 PM
Don't give it another thought, Alex. Apology accepted, and thank you! :grouphug:
Victor

avokshi
04-28-05, 12:20 PM
Hello Victor, Alex, I am Alice BTW...

Now, I am dealing with a service manager rather than directly speaking with the tech. As far as rear transmission seal/crankshaft seal. I did repeatedly ask if there was anything else that needed fixed while they were down there... they did a GM inspection and said no. But I will push the issue if you think it wise! I get the impression that they are replacing all the valve covers/head gaskets, I still haven't heard their answer about "head warpage", and the vehicle has been in their possesion for 19 man ours as we speak. (they were waiting to get in to the engine to determine warpage, and then they would have to send the pieces away to a shop. to get shaves? still do not know how much this would cost)They are a large cadillac/GM dealer in our area with a fairly good reputation. ( i haven't heard bad things). You are right, you get what you pay for! They said no to pellets, I have read other threads on the same issue and my head is spinning. regarding Honest Johns I live near the courthouse and get free legal advice through work, so the $50 filing fee for a small claim for the labor wouldn't hurt me a bit, it will definitely go to mediation though. It will be pleaseant to waste their time for a change...

Looking forward to being able to trust our beautiful car again, we are borrowing Nissan Sentra right now,

Regards,

avokshi
04-28-05, 12:27 PM
Thank you so very much for your interest and support....

I saw the post from the guy who bought the 96 deville with the same problem for $1000, ( a tenth of what I paid!)

mechanix
05-02-05, 12:30 PM
Hello Alice! I have been anxious to hear an update on your car. Although the forum is a most excellent medium for obtaining info about your car, the down side is that you often get conflicting advice which leaves you wondering which one is best. I don't think that using the pellets would do any harm if you chose to use them. I am in a position to fix any leaks myself that might occur, so I am not worried about leaks. I just like a "squeaky clean" cooling system, so I am willing to risk getting a leak. Which ever way you decide on using the pellets, I think you will be ok.

As for the seals, it's the REAR crankshaft seal (the flywheel end), and the FRONT transmission seal (behind the torque converter). Just wanted to be clear on that. Like I said, they may be reluctant to replace those seals because they have to warranty them if they do, and that involves removing the engine to service them. I'm sure they would much rather charge you another $2K than to have to eat the labor, should they start leaking later on. Yes, I would definitely push for it!

Sorry to hear about your fender bender. One would begin to think that your Caddy was a bad Omen! *lol* That's kind of how I felt with mine in the beginning too, but it is worth all the aggravation every time I slide into that plush seat and twist the key! Do keep us posted! :)