: First time owner/buyer, hoping to ask some questions RE:93-96 Fleetwood/Brougham



jonjonbear
04-21-05, 05:56 PM
Hello group,
I live near Austin TX in Bastrop and have been actively looking at the last style Fleetwood/Broughams and am hoping I can ask some questions of people who know the cars..I had an 82 Fleetwood Brougham years ago and a 95 Deville so those are my only cars to compare to..
First, is there a remarkable difference between the first generation engine and the one after 94? I see there is a good jump in numbers, is the engine a different style? Is the later engine better/as good? I keep seeing 93s in my range and figure the 94> are more because of the engine..
Also, I can't tell but do they have the fuel computer like the older cars? You know that guage that gives you the gas mileage? What do these cars really get for mileage..They are rated pretty good but I have often discovered those numbers are not true..Do they need premium like the FWD Cadillacs?
I also like the last style of the previous body style (90-92) but I really like the last one..Is there anything I should watch out for, look for or stay away from when looking at these cars?
Anyway sorry to ask so many questions but figured best to ask people who own these cars..Thanks for your time and I appriciate any information

caddycruiser
04-21-05, 06:24 PM
I have a '93, so I can answer some of the question. The engines in the '93 and then the '94-'96 are completely different, but the same size (5.7L 350 V8's). The one in the '93 is the older style, TBI (throttle body injection) and has 185 horses, while the '94 and newer cars got the well-known "LT1", a cast iron version of the same engine in Camaros and Vettes at the time. It's considerably higher performance, yet both get virtually the same gas mileage.

Further on the mpg ratings, these cars are rather low-tech when it comes to interior "goodies", and do not have the fuel computer thing, just a digital instrument cluster with speed, fuel level, and odometer. They do NOT run on Premium, just regular 87 octane--that goes for all four model years.

The ratings are 16/25, and in the real-world, that seems highly accurate. When I'm driving mine as usual (not right now though, since I'm away at college), I easily get in the mid-20's and it, while not a Prius, sips gas quite lightly. Drinks a little more in stop and go traffic, but not by much.

Hope that answered your questions! :thumbsup:


Oh, and as to which is better, there's no doubt the '94-'96 cars with the LT1 are quicker, and there's a TON more performance goodies that can be bolted on thanks to the same motor being used in the Impala SS at the time. That being said, my '93 with the "older" engine is plenty quick and, as I like to call it, turbine-smooth at all speeds. Like I said, the gas mileage is quite similar for both engines. I'd try and find one of each and drive them to see for yourself. '93s are usually cheaper because of the unique engine, but the '94-'96 models can be worth the extra $$ if you really want stronger performance.

David Richelieu
04-21-05, 07:39 PM
HI:
I am David Anthony Richelieu and live in San Antonio and I own
a 1994 Fleetwood Brougham in amethyst and which I call the Purple Haze. My car has the Corvette engine and has 270 hp and hauls ass.
If you are planning to buy one of these, you will find they are terrific
bargains. I urge that you have any repair work all done at an authorized Cadillac dealer where you can get the GM Goodwrench warranty which guarantees almost all parts that you replace for as long as you own the car.
In other words, if you replace the air conditioning compressor and it goes out at some future date, it will be replaced for free.
I don't know if any of these models have onboard computers to tell you how much gas mileage you are getting, miles left in your tank, etc. I know mine doesn't have it and my previous model didn't have one either.
I had one of those in my Lincoln LSC Mark VII and really liked it.
I do mostly city/suburban driving (no long trips) and generally average
15 mpg of REGULAR gas. You are just wasting money putting anything above regular in the car. That is what it was designed to use and what it runs on best.
If you are looking for a car I suggest you look for a Fleetwood Brougham for the extra luxury touches (rear seat overhead lighted mirrors etc.) but try to find one WITHOUT a vinyl top (I think it was a DELETE
option from the standard Brougham trim.) Vinyl tops are real maintenance
problems and frequently rot the edges of the roof with rust from water trapped under the vinyl. If you get one with a vinyl top and it starts rusting etc. I would recommend you have it removed rather than replaced or repaired.
My only complaint is that both of the Fleetwoods I have owned ( the first was a 94 but not a Brougham) have had a rattle somewhere in the right rear that is audible over rough roads. etc. It may be a loose or broken clamp on the exhaust pipe or the rear air shock absorber may need replacing. So far, it hasn't been annoying enough to make me find out what is causing it.
This car will leave any Lincoln Town Car in the dust. It will run
pretty well against an Impala SS (they both have the same engine but the Cadillac weighs more than the Chevy) and I may eventually have stiffer shocks and other suspension components added so it handles more like an Impala SS. It behaves very well as is and cruises along the Interstate with real authority and assurance on its Michelin inchwalls. Also, toss the
donut spare and get a full-sized one. The trunk is the size of New Jersey and there is plenty of room for a real spare tire.
You can't buy more car for the money and if you find one that has been taken care of, you'll be amazed how much better it rides and feels and
looks than some brand new $25,000 or $30,000 Toyota whatever.
Good luck.

HotRodSaint
04-21-05, 09:36 PM
Let me add my .02 cents, which adjusted for inflation isn't worth very much.

The '95/96 received new mirrors, that some love and some hate. I love them. They also received a new front console, which almost everyone loves.

Another huge benefit of the LT1 vs the TBI, is the LT1's extensive aftermarket support.

I agree that the Brougham is the model you want to look for, not only for it's options, but as Katshot has pointed out, the base models were used as livery cars and thus are more likely to be abused.

Welcome to the forum! :welcome:


http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/1/web/289000-289999/289674_71_full.jpg
More Pic's and Specís Here. (http://www.cardomain.com/id/hotrodsaint)

N0DIH
04-21-05, 10:35 PM
There is a livery one Fleetwood, not Brougham by me. 94, engine is clean, has Flowmasters on it (a little louder, w/some exhaust leaks too) for $2500. Katshot recommends to avoid livery cars though, he knows first hand what they go through.

Good reading here: http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-2277

A BIG bonus option is RPO Option V4P "Trailer Towing not to Exceed 7000#'s". This comes with the 3.42 (RPO GU6) gear and external trans cooler (RPO KD1) and mechanical fan (RPO V08). The mech fan can be removed and an electric put in its place, as I will be doing that soon.... The V4P cars are rumored to be able to beat Impala SS's. I haven't tried, but I did get away from a Hemi Ram. So I can vouch, they are not slouches!!! I get catch rubber in second gear all too often, but thanks to the traction control, it "takes care of it".... Grrrr

By all means, take a copy of the RPO Option Codes with you when you look at cars. It will help you find "special" ones like Katshot's Favorite, R1P, livery.....

http://myweb.accessus.net/~090/cfb.html

D148L0
04-21-05, 10:50 PM
Welcome to the forums, jonjonbear.

nphoenix
04-22-05, 03:15 AM
I love my 94 - would buy a new fleetwood rwd if they made them. My issue is the chrome moulding strips on all the quarters. living in AZ they bubble up every year (my car is the near black dark blue) it's not like I park it in the sun all the time - it just keeps happening. I suppose its not a big issue.

jonjonbear
04-22-05, 01:09 PM
Wow thanks everyone..Of all the different forums I have posted on, this one has been great for a first post!!!!! I also have a new Passat TDI and hardly get noticed on that group..
Yeah I definately will look for the Brougham and will try to find a 94+..After driving a diesel all the time I want something I can be the road boss!!
Been lookin on EBAY, boy it seems like they are all in Florida or NE somewhere..Guess I just need to be patient..Sounds like you folks are getting better mileage than I suspected..That's a good thing..I saw a 93 on EBAY a few weeks ago that just about made me drop my teeth..It was the darkest midnight metallic blue(prolly like yours nphoenix) but strangely enough it had burgandy leather!? It was a high mileage car (190K) but I swear it looked brand new..I think it was in Ft Worth and I think it sold for 3995.00..As mentioned I have never even been in one but I sure love them..Now I need to measure the garage in my new house to see if it will fit! :-)
Anyway thanks for the info and if I get one I will definately be on here more!!!
John

Adam
04-22-05, 01:19 PM
Anyway thanks for the info and if I get one I will definately be on here more!!!
John

you dont have to own a Cadillac to stay on the site bud. stick around and look at all the other places on here like the lounge and the non model discussion. you might have some info on something and someone might need it. well good luck on your future purchase! get one the first chance you get, i did. it took me 2 years to find my Fleetwood.

caddycruiser
04-22-05, 01:54 PM
Wow thanks everyone..Of all the different forums I have posted on, this one has been great for a first post!!!!! I also have a new Passat TDI and hardly get noticed on that group..
Yeah I definately will look for the Brougham and will try to find a 94+..After driving a diesel all the time I want something I can be the road boss!!
Been lookin on EBAY, boy it seems like they are all in Florida or NE somewhere..Guess I just need to be patient..Sounds like you folks are getting better mileage than I suspected..That's a good thing..I saw a 93 on EBAY a few weeks ago that just about made me drop my teeth..It was the darkest midnight metallic blue(prolly like yours nphoenix) but strangely enough it had burgandy leather!? It was a high mileage car (190K) but I swear it looked brand new..I think it was in Ft Worth and I think it sold for 3995.00..As mentioned I have never even been in one but I sure love them..Now I need to measure the garage in my new house to see if it will fit! :-)
Anyway thanks for the info and if I get one I will definately be on here more!!!
John


I saw that same Dark Blue with burgundy interior car on Ebay too, and all I could think was "weird". I couldn't imagine how it could have been ordered that way, but people do strange things sometime.

The reason why there's so many from Florida, is well, because that's the retiree/old age capital of the country it seems--obvious why these big floaty Caddy's are so common there. My white/red '93 originated in Tampa and then when the original owner died, it was transferred to his son near Baltimore in '98, who put most of the miles on. We bought it from him in July '03, and have had it ever since.

Most of the ones you'll find are southern, which isn't necessarily a bad thing as far as their condition goes.

vanaisa
04-22-05, 02:18 PM
My ī93 FWB is from Florida too. 130 000 miles in odometer and looks nice too. And one good thing about those Florida cars - no rust!
I searched my car about 6 months. And i like it with this "truck engine", because parts are cheaper (well, in our country), than LT1. In city driving you dont feel difference between L05 185Hp and LT1 260Hp.

Katshot
04-22-05, 02:37 PM
Now I need to measure the garage in my new house to see if it will fit! :-)

Sounds silly but you're right to measure. At about a half a foot LONGER than a Suburban, these cars are friggin' HUGE! Mine only fits in two of the three bays in my garage. Of course it never gets in there since the garage is filled by tool boxes, shelving, refrigerators, freezers, and my wife's "project" car.
Anyways, welcome aboard. The RWD Fleetwood and Brougham are my favorite Cadillacs. I have a '95 and have done some customizing to it. I've included a link to my CarDomain site so you can see it. The car is certainly no technical tour de force yet it DID take some pretty good technical thinking to piece together a 4500lb. car that runs like a sports car, rides like a cloud, has the dependability of a Maytag washer, and manages to get up to 25mpg on the highway!
Ok, it doesn't have active suspension, a 32-valve V8, or a nifty trip computer but IMO, that's the main reason the car is so rock-solid reliable. Just like grampa used to say, "the more stuff it has, the more stuff there is to go wrong".
Either way, the car was the number one livery car in the country for a reason, it was big, smooth, reliable, fast, and had a real "presence" in the driveway.
Yeah, there's a few common "issues" that we can talk about in depth but none of them are hard or expensive to take care of.
If you have any questions, feel free to post them here or email me direct.

Kevin Donovan
'95 Cadillac FTS
(Click the link to see my car)
http://members.cardomain.com/katshot

cadillacmike68
04-27-05, 05:08 PM
I have a 1995 Black Fleetwood brougham (among other Cadillacs) with 165,000 miles on it and it still looks brand NEW. It was originally sold in MI, but the owner moved to FL a year later and I bought it in Jan 2000 with 75,000 miles.

I had to refinish the following because of the hat & sun in FL:
1. Front bumper top the sun baked the clear coat right off.
2. All the top edge of the chrome waist mlosings tha go around the car, sun again.
3. The 4 corner "chrome" moldings that run along the the top edge, i think these were defective material parts, everyone's Fleetwood had this problem.
4. The aluinum trim at the bottom of the back of the vinyl top had its paint baked off, I had it repainted.
5. The window belt line moldings are getting baked and I'll have to paint those too.

The paint has held up well.

Overall length is 225 inches. (my 1968 is 224.7!)

1993s had the Throttle body injection and single exhaust.

1994-96 has the LT1 with tuned port injectors, dual exhaust (true dual with 2 cats, 2 HUGE mufflers and 2 resonators -very quiet), causing the 260 (not 270) HP and 335 FtLb torque! It's 40 HP (but only 5 FtLb T) less than the same year corvettes, largely because the Fleetwoods have an air cleaner less than half the size of the corvettes and while the corvette air intake is straight into the throttle body, the Fleetwood (and Roadmaster and Caprice / Impala) all made at least 2 90 degree turns to get to the throttle body.

94 and 94 had old ODD1 diags 96 has OBDII, means that there is more aftermarket "tricks" that you can do to a 94-95!. Like getting rid of the 108 MPH limiter!

93-94 have just about identical outside (except exhaust) 95-96 have larger fold away outside mirrors, oherwise the same. (5-96 has nicer inside consoles. 1996 had daytime running lamps, this is the only way to tell them apart on the road from 1995s.

Regular Fleetwood vs Brougham:
Brougham adds the vinyl roof (no problems with mine!), Better seats they are actually more comfortable, rear storage armrest, the rear vanity mirrors, and most of the optional items on the Fleetwood are in the Brougham package like Twilight Sentinel, seat memory, etc. 95% of the all of them have leather seats. Brougham aklso comes standard with 2.94:1 rear axle ratio and extra capacity cooling option which has the larger electrical fans, external transmission AND engine coolers (these lines evewntually leak!) The brougham wheels are nicer and my factory chrome wheels are evn nicer. I bought an extra wheel (chrome) at the "junkyard for $100.00! looks new!

If you have a Brougham without the trailer package, you can tow about 5,000 lbs vs 7,000 lbs with the trailer package which adds stiffer spings, "heavy duty rear brakes" whatever that means and the higher 3.42:1 rear axle ratio (probably the most critical item in the package - it will save your engine and tranny if you need to tow heavy loads) My boat and trailer (about 2,500 lbs) is a breeze to tow.

Cadillac didn't update any of the electronics in the Fleetwood because they knew they were going to drop it after 1996 - that's a shame, because my brothers 1988 Tbird had a trip computer but my 1995 fleetwood does not.

Also no dual zone climate control (roadmaster had it ?!?!?) and no compass in the mirror!

No Bose radio option, but the CD player option comes with 6 speakers and sounds pretty good.

The gas guage lies to you, tells you you have more fuel than you really have, watch your trip odometer and set it each time you fill up! It's about 430 plus install (retail price) for a new sending unit.

Old fart a$$ed digital dash, speedo, and fuel gage are about it, that's the WORST thing about this car I HATE that digital dash!.

Go find one, they are out there, about 45,000 95 and 96s were made. It took me two years to find mine, then2 shoewd up.

Last fall there were two more at the local dealer. They sold quick. One a dark blue was made late fall 1996, it must have been one of the last 100 or so made, but I had 3 cars already...

Look in traderonline.com (you can get to it from edmunds.com)

caddycruiser
04-27-05, 05:55 PM
...
5. The window belt line moldings are getting baked and I'll have to paint those too.
....
Also no dual zone climate control (roadmaster had it ?!?!?) and no compass in the mirror!
....
Old fart a$$ed digital dash, speedo, and fuel gage are about it, that's the WORST thing about this car I HATE that digital dash!.

Both of the first two FW's we looked at had the gray paint peeling off the window belt line moldings, but the one we bought was perfect--now it's moldings there are looking weirdly faded and like they may start to peel very soon. Gotta find a way to fix them too.

Dual zone climate control--nope, no Roadmaster every had this, but the Roadmaster did have a MUCH MUCH better climate control system, that is not only easier to work, but works better. Getting basic heat or A/C out of my Fleetwood isn't too hard, but I hate the controls when compared to my dad's Roadmaster--and he does too.

Digital dash--at first I thought it was really cool, but now not so much. I'd much rather have a classy looking set of "normal" gauges (like a new Escalade) that actually tell me something other than just the speed and the fuel level. It's a luxury car, I know, but it'd be nice to know if something bad was on the verge of happening before the actual warning light comes on.

Either way, I LOVE my '93, especially after I found out that it's only 1 of 60 '93s to ever be built with a true RED interior. I will be buying another in the next 2 years, but really want a '95 this time around, both for the higher performance, the better mirrors, and the fact that it can be modified more than a '96.

DeVillish
04-28-05, 07:33 AM
Is it a bad idea to get one with higher miles? I've heard the LT1 cars can last a realllly long time. Most of the ones i find are over 100k miles, should i stay away from cars with over 100k?

caddycruiser
04-28-05, 08:57 AM
Is it a bad idea to get one with higher miles? I've heard the LT1 cars can last a realllly long time. Most of the ones i find are over 100k miles, should i stay away from cars with over 100k?

Absolutely NOT! At first, when my father was buying his '92 Roadmaster, he told me how many miles it had on it--185k--and I freaked. I had never been around a vehicle with that many miles, but he swore up and down it was in nearly perfect shape, both in appearance and driving. After he got it, I was stunned and still am by how little effect mileage has had on it.

The point is--these cars are BEASTS! Reliable, cheap to fix (very simple mechanicals), and, usually, fairly affordable to buy.

I'm not scared at all by the mileage anymore, but moreso the condition. If you can find one that has over 100k miles, but has obviously been well maintained and cared for over the years, go for it. ;)

HotRodSaint
04-28-05, 12:30 PM
Either way, I LOVE my '93, especially after I found out that it's only 1 of 60 '93s to ever be built with a true RED interior.

Do you have pictures of that interior?

cadillacmike68
04-28-05, 06:20 PM
[QUOTE=Dual zone climate control--nope, no Roadmaster every had this, but the Roadmaster did have a MUCH MUCH better climate control system, that is not only easier to work, but works better. Getting basic heat or A/C out of my Fleetwood isn't too hard, but I hate the controls when compared to my dad's Roadmaster--and he does too..[/QUOTE]

I'll check my sales brouchures, but I firmly remember seeing the dual zone climate control on a Roadmaster limited (1995) that i was considering buyng back in 2000.

caddycruiser
04-28-05, 07:05 PM
Do you have pictures of that interior?

Sure, I've posted them before and this was an ongoing story here for a while, as to why the car actually had a red interior when it was never offered, but Sandy cleared it up for me: in '93, there were a "Special 60" of them built, all Fleetwood Broughams with the same options, 30 in Sable Black and 30 in Cotillion White, all with the same special red interior. I've only come across one other identical white one in my searches--but would love to see a black one!

Here's the pic again (shade looks slightly off in the pic, but I haven't been able to get another one yet):
http://img63.echo.cx/img63/8748/caddyint3ge.th.jpg (http://img63.echo.cx/my.php?image=caddyint3ge.jpg)

And the thread where Sandy got the answer and explanation for me:
'93 FW Red interior discussion (http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=36134&highlight=Red)

caddycruiser
04-28-05, 07:07 PM
[QUOTE=Dual zone climate control--nope, no Roadmaster every had this, but the Roadmaster did have a MUCH MUCH better climate control system, that is not only easier to work, but works better. Getting basic heat or A/C out of my Fleetwood isn't too hard, but I hate the controls when compared to my dad's Roadmaster--and he does too..

I'll check my sales brouchures, but I firmly remember seeing the dual zone climate control on a Roadmaster limited (1995) that i was considering buyng back in 2000.[/QUOTE]

This is an example of the top climate control ever available in a Roadmaster (this is also a '95), which happens to be the same as the one in our '92:
http://img63.echo.cx/img63/1470/roadmasterac3wk.th.jpg (http://img63.echo.cx/my.php?image=roadmasterac3wk.jpg)

So, no, the Roadmaster never had "dual-zone" control. However, every other top model Buick since that time, has had that feature--but the Roadmaster was just a little too unsophisticated for it.

Broughamadrosis
04-28-05, 10:10 PM
So, no, the Roadmaster never had "dual-zone" control. However, every other top model Buick since that time, has had that feature--but the Roadmaster was just a little too unsophisticated for it.

I remember seeing the dual-zone CC in the Park Avenue Ultra - and I thought it was silly :)

brougham
04-28-05, 11:22 PM
They must have screwed something up with the climate control on the Fleetwoods because it works great on my Brougham D'Elegance. You almost never have to touch it unless you want to adjust something.

caddycruiser
04-28-05, 11:34 PM
They must have screwed something up with the climate control on the Fleetwoods because it works great on my Brougham D'Elegance. You almost never have to touch it unless you want to adjust something.

Well, I never have to touch mine either, I just hate how it seriously lacks any adjustability--auto is great, but I'd also like to adjust things like where the air is actually blowing, like we can in the Buick. It works, but is just another one of those TOO basic things on the car.

fltwd93
04-29-05, 03:38 PM
I would like to add this. If you are planning on leaving the engine stock and undressed the LT1 is the better engine. But, if you plan on going show style you would be better off to get a 93 w/ the TBI. My fleetwood has the TBI and over $2500 in chrome plating just under the hood. It makes the car look like an old school Chevy with a cadillac body.

cadillacmike68
04-29-05, 05:14 PM
I forgot to check my brochures last night (coming down with a cold) but I'll try to remember tonight! I think on these cars it was a panel way off to the right near the door for the dual zone AC

caddycruiser
04-29-05, 05:48 PM
I forgot to check my brochures last night (coming down with a cold) but I'll try to remember tonight! I think on these cars it was a panel way off to the right near the door for the dual zone AC

Nope, that was a Park Avenue/LeSabre too. :thumbsup:

lev
04-30-05, 04:43 PM
Hello group,
I live near Austin TX in Bastrop and have been actively looking at the last style Fleetwood/Broughams

My 2 pennies, jonjon.


Never ride on fumes. Head to the pump when the tank is 1/4 full. Not doing so will burn up the fuel pump. I learned the hard way by paying $700 to replace it.

Do the front end alignment once a year. If you do not, you will not be able to steer the car - another something that happened to me and set me back $800, though, I confess, I was abusive on speed bumps.

Other then that I realy can't add what hasn't been said in one form or another.

GreyFox
05-24-05, 07:49 PM
Actually, it was the Buick Park Avenue that had the dual zone control. I remember riding in one in 1991 with it. The car itself may have been older than 91.

N0DIH
05-24-05, 08:46 PM
The '95/96 received new mirrors, that some love and some hate. I love them. They also received a new front console, which almost everyone loves.

I have a 94, never got a close look at a 95. What is the difference in the front console?

Can you post closeups of the 95-96 mirrors? Personally, I like the 93-94 mirrors because I have visibility just in front of them. It is nice to have.

Any other significant differences in the 93-94 and 95-96's?

And can anyone confirm or deny the existance of the factory floor shifter in a 96 that I saw once (the guy claimed it was a one off, Sandy? Anyone?) and cannot find again? It looked slick, and did have a distinct factory appearance, much like the 96 Impala SS.

Thanks!
Tom

theGman
05-25-05, 09:53 PM
96 and late 95s have the new console; many 95s have the old style.

Skim
05-26-05, 02:07 AM
This thread really has been a great help. I just bought my first, a 96 Fleetwood Brougham flawless 1 owner Cautillian?(sp) white with natural beige leather, 115k very well maintained and built in Arlington, Tx only miles from my home. I picked it up from a friend who recieved it on a Livestock (cattle) debt that was owed of about $2500! I ended up paying him $3800 for the car. He had no interest in it what soever and wanted to make a few bucks. Anyways, I have wanted one of the 93-96 Fleetwoods for atleast 5 years but never really looked seriously for one. After driving this thing I am in love with it.
I just wanted to tell everyone thanks for posting on this thread with all this valuable info. I never knew there were so many differences and its awesome learning the little tidbits and tips on maintenance etc. Thanks guys!