: am i the only one pissed about the ctsv changes already?



mj23
04-14-05, 09:06 PM
i know that buissiness is buissiness but it really irritates me that they are changin the ctsv already. they just keep putting new stuff out leaving the rest of us who already made the purchase in the cold. they made the improvements and believe me we are gonna see the value of our old cars drop. out with the old in with the new. does anyone share these same feelings with me. i know that the changes are minor but for god sake make it right the first time! instead of giving us all the bugs and then giving all the 06 customers a better ride. sorry had to vent. i love this car but i am not happy.

joshdctsv
04-14-05, 09:14 PM
i know that buissiness is buissiness but it really irritates me that they are changin the ctsv already. they just keep putting new stuff out leaving the rest of us who already made the purchase in the cold. they made the improvements and believe me we are gonna see the value of our old cars drop. out with the old in with the new. does anyone share these same feelings with me. i know that the changes are minor but for god sake make it right the first time! instead of giving us all the bugs and then giving all the 06 customers a better ride. sorry had to vent. i love this car but i am not happy.

Just the way it works with all cars. You cant really expect them not to innovate (and create more demand) in order to keep those that have already bought their car from suffering in the resale market. If anything, they need a way to convince you to trade up.

Yes, it sucks for the values of our cars, but we're also reaping the benefits of advancments made by the OEMs so that they could win our business.

Skiddles
04-14-05, 09:17 PM
This is why I bought on a two year SmartBuy.

willsctsv
04-14-05, 09:31 PM
You are upset about progress?

Art138
04-14-05, 09:43 PM
What changes over the 05?? Maybe you can enlighten the rest of us.

2004ctsv
04-14-05, 09:57 PM
Sorry, guy-I just can't agree with your angst.

Every car out there moves up in horsepower and refinement from year to year. Well, maybe not Camry's, but everything else does.

It's almost as bad as buying a PC, 3 months after you purchase the top of the line, a faster, better one comes out for the same bread.

So, if you have a 2004, you have something special. Hang on to it.

Although many improvements have been made, I'd give my right ### to get either my 65 Mustang GT or 68 convertible Mustang back like when they were new.
Old man waxing nostalgic
Tony

CTSV05
04-14-05, 10:17 PM
I think its the nature of the beast.

Personally, I'm glad they are getting better! Hopefully, some of the technology will work on ours.

But honestly, if we (you) waited til the best version came out, wouldn't you miss all the fun of ownership now?

Geno
04-14-05, 10:20 PM
Although many improvements have been made, I'd give my right ### to get either my 65 Mustang GT or 68 convertible Mustang back like when they were new.
Old man waxing nostalgic
Tony

A soul mate; that was one of my favorite cars. A '65 GT, 289 HiPo, front disk brake, Ford top loader, screamer. They might have made bigger and faster Mustangs, but that one had some magic going on. So sometimes the improvements of the next model year are subjective.

lasstss
04-14-05, 10:57 PM
I think the V will level out. Its not a t bird or an Allante. Old Vipers are still expensive and they are pretty far down the HP pipe. We are still dealing with 7500 cars or less 2004 & 2005. Having one with another 100 horses isnt going to make people break the dealer doors down. Who knows, with the XLRv and STSv, they may sell less CTSv's in 2006? JMO:hmm:

VCONVERT
04-14-05, 11:01 PM
The worst possible thing Cadillac could do is nothing. When you stand still you're left in the dust. Keep up the good work Cadillac - my 05 is a blast to drive and I can't wait for the improvements, refinement and advancements to come!

StealthV
04-14-05, 11:14 PM
Did I miss something? Where'd this extra 100 horses come from? :hmm:

wildwhl
04-14-05, 11:21 PM
Did I miss something? Where'd this extra 100 horses come from? :hmm:


I don't know, Rick, where's the extra 100 horses come from, Mr. Electric rear diff FWD I have a dream but no Maggie. :histeric:

Must be some magic cubes somewhere...

mj23
04-14-05, 11:31 PM
yeah as far as i know it is confirmed that there will be an ls2 in there and that they will make improvements on the rear end. i just think it's bullshit how they keep u in the dark and then when they have already sold a bunch then they bring out the knew stuff. look what they did with the first escalade. have a denali with cadillac badges for one year and then come out with a totally different body style the next year. i think car dealers should have to make info on near future products readily available to give the customer a little headsup before they go into to debt for 5 years. we all know they would never do that. and for the people saying how special the ls6 is see how special the dealer thinks it is when you want to trade it in on an 06 or whatever else. minor improvements yeah cool but i think putting a completely different engine in there is far from minor. lets face it guys nobody wants to drive yesterdays news.

lasstss
04-14-05, 11:42 PM
Did I miss something? Where'd this extra 100 horses come from? :hmm:

Future engines boys. The gto was short 50 last year.:D

Geno
04-14-05, 11:48 PM
Hey, look I could care less what the dealer thinks. I love the LS6, it's a hell of a motor, very high tech when compared to any V8 push rod motor. I personally find the LS2 to be a negative (for a variety of reasons that have been pointed out on other posts). I definitely would not trade my 2004 "V" for 2006 with a LS2.

Now a "V" with a LS7 would be another matter, but I've got big buck tied up and more HP than any NA LS7 in the next gen "V". So I personally am a happy camper. If Caddy brings out a new "V" with more power and features that's a good thing if you are a true CTS-V lover, regardless if you buy one or not.;)

StealthV
04-15-05, 12:54 AM
If cars never changed from year to year, we'd buy one car and have it for life. That's no fun.

A strategy element of the high end car market is to achieve high turn over rates by enticing people to purchase a new car every year or two. This market level has the disposable income to trade often and they do.

Somone working a McJob can't afford the latest and greatest every year even if they wanted to. GM, rightly so, is targeting the $$$.

Historically, GM has been a very extremely slow company for change. That's one reason we have all the four cylinder front-wheel-drive crap from overseas on our soil.

Look at a company like Ferrari. The day you buy one brand new, you are guaranteed there is going to be something that handles better, brakes harder and goes faster in 12 months. A perfect execution of the "I gotta have that" brand.

Vrocks
04-15-05, 12:56 AM
If you read the car mags and forums on a regular basis you can figure out what's coming out in a year or two.

The LS2 is hardly an improvement over the LS6, and I personally don't care too much about a rear diff improvement at this point in time ( my diff is perfect ).

If the LS7 had gone into the '06CTS-V I still wouldn't care, because I didn't buy my V, I leased it for 2 years. The cars will always be slightly improved, the '06 buyers are the ones getting the short end of the stick, although they'll probably get better deals... The '07 - '08 is the one to wait for at this point in time...

mj23
04-15-05, 01:04 AM
im sorry but that is not ferraris history especially of late. look how long the modena was around. and the maranello? still around. im just saying to make minor improvements is one thing but to change the enginge all together is gonna make the value of our cars decline. whether you think it is better or not, i think in gerneral the car with the ls6 is gonna be looked at as less desirable. also the claimed horse power by gm seems to be a little overated according to most dynos. what happens when the ls2 posts better dyno/performance #'s. then were all gonna be not so pleased to say the least.

StealthV
04-15-05, 01:11 AM
If you believe the LS6 is underpowered, you've been sucked into the internet world of misinformation.

On other boards, I've seen 2005 GTOs with LS2s dynoing nearly identical to the LS6 in the V.

The LS6 is/was the premier, low-volume GM small block available only in the Z06 and CTS-V. The LS2 is a dime-dozen engine and will show up everywhere.

Who cares if the LS2 puts down more power. I hope it does or there was no reason to spend the R&D money to bring it to market. I'll keep tweaking my crappy LS6 and making it faster. :cheers:

Dave's V
04-15-05, 02:11 AM
There is no guarantee that the 06 version will not have its own problems. As a few members mentioned, I like to see improvements in cars especially the one I own. Will that make me love my car any less? No way. The 04/05 V has set the standard for a sports sedan. Its design will look fresh for years and its power will probably never be considered average.

While everyone is driving around in their LS2 powered V, I will be driving around in a V with a unique special edition engine. Me and the other 04/05 Vs and Z06 drivers.

LS6HVN
04-15-05, 02:47 AM
Yup, I'm with you Vrocks. Thats why I lease too. If nothing better comes along I'll by the residual, otherwise we'll see what 2007 offers. heheh. That XLR-V sure looks tasty. (90 grand!:eek: )

CTSV05
04-15-05, 09:27 AM
DavesV,

You Go Booyyyeee!

I think the LS6 is an awesome powerplant, ripe for mods and as stated, a limited production engine.

To me, unless the LS7 is installed, and the designers do not mess with the Vs excellent lines, too much I wouldn't be interested in a newer one anyway.

Lets face it, finding 100 HP isn't all that difficult, and the rearend will have a solution before its all said and done.

At the risk of sounding full of myself, (sorry, can't let that go) I'm extremely proud to own one of the PREMIERE cars built in the WORLD! So if Caddy continues to make the V name better, all the better.

Katshot
04-15-05, 12:36 PM
That's how manufacturers manage to keep selling new product. I admit small improvements are better than large ones but sometimes large ones are needed to save a particular product that was put on the market at a severe disadvantage with respect to its competition.
Just be happy you didn't buy a '04 GTO! :rolleyes:

Dave's V
04-15-05, 12:42 PM
DavesV,

You Go Booyyyeee!

I think the LS6 is an awesome powerplant, ripe for mods and as stated, a limited production engine.

To me, unless the LS7 is installed, and the designers do not mess with the Vs excellent lines, too much I wouldn't be interested in a newer one anyway.

Lets face it, finding 100 HP isn't all that difficult, and the rearend will have a solution before its all said and done.

At the risk of sounding full of myself, (sorry, can't let that go) I'm extremely proud to own one of the PREMIERE cars built in the WORLD! So if Caddy continues to make the V name better, all the better.

CTSV05,
Sometimes people just must enjoy what they have instead of what they could have. As far as I'm concerned, I LOVE MY 05 V.

GNSCOTT
04-15-05, 01:35 PM
Wow, there are no improvements there to complain about. The motor is a wash, and if GM can develop a stronger rear, I'm sure it will go in our cars for a replacement when ours blow. GM does not want to keep replacing them. As for an LS6 V being worth more in 30 yrs is kinda a joke. No one will pay more to have the LS6 over the LS2, just like they will not in the years to come. The only advantage will be aftermarket parts and the LS2 just came out and we still don't know how long that will be in production. Are you saying they should have waited 2 model years for the a motor with the same HP?

mj23
04-15-05, 06:56 PM
no that is not what i am saying. and yes i think that it is bs when they do that on any ...car. if the ls2 is not a better motor, then why is gm using it at all? they could have just jammed the same motor in a different body.(with regard to the new vette) and yes what they did with the gto was criminal and so was the first escalade. look, all i am saying is that it think it should be mandatory for the ...car manufacterer to let the person know if something like that is gonna be changed for the next year. which in the case of the time of my purchase was going to be a few months. same thing happened when my ...friend was going to buy a subaru. the salesmen told us to wait that the new body style with the new motor was coming in the next few months, and that if he bought one now he would regret it and want a new one. im all for improvements but to change something in just two years is a joke. what if all of sudden the new V were to be supercharged from the factory? then how pissed would we be?

StealthV
04-15-05, 07:29 PM
There's not much in the automotive world that is a big surprise when it hits the market. Since September '04, we've known that the '06 CTS-V had a LS2 and the '06 Z06 had a 427 LS7.

If there is a supercharged CTS-V coming soon, it is the best secret GM has ever kept. There are many of us here with GM inside sources.

If you admit the LS2 isn't a better engine than the LS6, why do you have your (edited for kid friendliness) in a bunch? :)

Your friend has a Subaru? I weep for the youth of America.

Koooop
04-15-05, 07:40 PM
no that is not what i am saying. and yes i think that it is bs when they do that on any ...car. if the ls2 is not a better motor, then why is gm using it at all? they could have just jammed the same motor in a different body.(with regard to the new vette) and yes what they did with the gto was criminal and so was the first escalade. look, all i am saying is that it think it should be mandatory for the ...car manufacterer to let the person know if something like that is gonna be changed for the next year. which in the case of the time of my purchase was going to be a few months. same thing happened when my ...friend was going to buy a subaru. the salesmen told us to wait that the new body style with the new motor was coming in the next few months, and that if he bought one now he would regret it and want a new one. im all for improvements but to change something in just two years is a joke. what if all of sudden the new V were to be supercharged from the factory? then how pissed would we be?

The LS2 is a better motor, it makes significantly more HP at lower revs I just don't understand how that could not be better. I can't say I wish my V had the LS2, I just don't care since the LS6 is already such a blast! It seems logical to cut the LS6 and replace it with an improved motor, if GM didn't everyone would be crying "how come there's no LS2 in here". If a factory Supercharged edition or the LS7 shows up I may trade up, but not for the difference between the LS2 and LS6.

It seems that GM is damned if they do and damned if they don't. Personally I hope they keep improving these cars and continue to surprise us, these special introductions and mid year models keep it all interesting and fun.

VCONVERT
04-15-05, 11:01 PM
Our V's are faster than 95%+ cars on the planet. Why would I be angry if they made it faster?

c5racr1
04-18-05, 03:56 PM
GM has stopped production on the LS6 engine, the ls2 is the base high performance engine in the GM line up. It will be in the C6, CTSV, GTO, SSR, Ttrailblazer SS, cadillac ESV, Chevy silverado ss, and whatever else GM decides to make a performance platform. from a cost standpoint this 1 motor will cover everything, and not flip flop between ls1 and ls6. I have driven my brother's 05 gto and while the motor makes power, it is not like the ls6 power, for two motors that are so alike, they are two different monsters, the ls6 makes power at 6000, where the ls2 makes it at 5200. kinda like a L98 vs a LT1 for lack of a better comparison.

benjet
04-18-05, 04:20 PM
I have driven my brother's 05 gto and while the motor makes power, it is not like the ls6 power, for two motors that are so alike, they are two different monsters, the ls6 makes power at 6000, where the ls2 makes it at 5200. kinda like a L98 vs a LT1 for lack of a better comparison.

Can you expand on this? Can't figure out if you are favoring the 2 or the 6.

c5racr1
04-18-05, 04:45 PM
I like the LS6 because I like to turn engines up-(I like high rpm motors like BMW m series engines) but this does not take anything away from the LS2. It is a newer design that "fixes" the problems with the gen III motors such as sensor placement, bigger bore, (to alow the valves to be unshrouded), along with the new intake. the new LS2 will make more power when modded. and yes a cam change change will make this a high rpm motor. I am mearly talking stock vs. stock.

Dave's V
04-18-05, 10:00 PM
GM has stopped production on the LS6 engine, the ls2 is the base high performance engine in the GM line up. It will be in the C6, CTSV, GTO, SSR, Ttrailblazer SS, cadillac ESV, Chevy silverado ss, and whatever else GM decides to make a performance platform. from a cost standpoint this 1 motor will cover everything, and not flip flop between ls1 and ls6. I have driven my brother's 05 gto and while the motor makes power, it is not like the ls6 power, for two motors that are so alike, they are two different monsters, the ls6 makes power at 6000, where the ls2 makes it at 5200. kinda like a L98 vs a LT1 for lack of a better comparison.

This is my point. The LS2 will be in a lot of GM cars. The LS6 was only in a select few cars

Know one knows for sure what the resale value will be and I personally don't care. The V is meant to be driven, not parked in a garage. A lot of car enthusiasts like their car to be somewhat unique. The LS6 definitely does that even with a stock car. The LS2 does not.

c5racr1 also made another valid point. The motors are not even close to being the same, besides both having 8 cylinders and 16 valves.

I would hope later Vs are faster than the 04/05. It is called progress. Without progress, I bet most of us wouldn't even be Cadillac owners now.

trukk
04-19-05, 01:05 PM
...It is called progress. Without progress, I bet most of us wouldn't even be Cadillac owners now.

Amen to that brother Dave. [Although the Cimmaron's were pretty nice.]

-Chris