: New Tire Time - Nitto's Left Me in the Ditch!!



SupertreyG
09-22-13, 04:54 PM
I have had my V (2005) since June. It is my daily driver. We have had no appreciable rain here in east Texas since I bought it, until this past Friday. I have Nitto 555 on the rear and Nitto 850 on the front. Both are approaching replacement, particularly the rears.

Friday, while driving for the first time on the wet roads, I notice the rear wheels tending to spin almost every stop light. I was driving carefully, being the first time in the rain in this car. I headed to Dallas mid morning, still raining pretty steady, and headed up the ramp to merge on the highway. I shift into 5th, and hydroplaned on a spot where the rain runoff was crossing the ramp. Sideways we went, I couldn't get it straight and we headed into the grassy/muddy area between the ramp and the highway at 55 mph. Not a fun experience.

The good Lord was protecting us though, and we slid, bumped, bounced to a stop without rolling or getting hurt. The car was not damaged, beyond a cracked inner fender liner on the passenger side and losing a bunch of those little push connectors from the plastic shield under the radiator when the mud tried to rip off the shield. I was even able to carefully drive it back out onto the road, despite the mud.

So, that brings me to the question of tires and wet traction. I don't run the car on the track (yet) and so daily driving is the norm. I need a tire that is going to give me good wet traction. Cold/snow performance isn't an issue here.

Some tires that other members have reported having good wet traction are:
Bridgstone Potenza RE-11 or Potenza RE970AS Ploe Position
Michelin Pilot Super Sports
Hankook V12

I would like a tire that will have a good treadwear rating and good to excellent wet traction (resistance to hydroplaning being the utmost) and all at a good price point. Quiet ride is a plus.

I have had excellent performance and longevity on trucks with Kumho tires and they are great price. Anyone try their performance tire? Some guys on the corvette forum have mention Kumho as being a great all around tire.

Please share any thoughts you have, particularly first hand experience in the rain.

Thanks!

AAIIIC
09-22-13, 05:51 PM
Not sure why this was in Appearance Mods, so that's fixed.

Do you have a budget?

FuzzyLogic
09-22-13, 06:14 PM
For wet traction, Hankook Ventus V12 all the way. I feel comfortable running them at high speeds in a heavy downpour.

SupertreyG
09-22-13, 08:18 PM
Not sure why this was in Appearance Mods, so that's fixed.

Do you have a budget?

Oops, sorry, thanks for fixing!

As for budget, I don't have one yet. I want to be cost conscious and not overspend on a name. However, I also don't want to sacrifice safety of my family to save a few bucks.
I thought I would see what everyone suggests and check out the prices.

thebigjimsho
09-22-13, 08:20 PM
There is a difference between wet traction and hydroplaning resistance. I don't have any experience with Super Sports but I do with PS2s. The SS is supposed to be better in all categories.

The PS2 and Hankook Ventus K12 both have pretty equal wet traction, with the ps2 having a noticably better dry traction. The Hankooks are still very good in the dry, just not as good as the PS2s. Figure a bigger gap with Super Sports.

Where the Hankook is VERY good is in hydroplane resistance. I had my V2 in a heavy downpour on roads that were badly rutted with 4-6" of standing water. And it cuts right through. What was interesting with the Hankooks is the way it channels water. The PS2s would evacuate the water out to the sides. The Hankooks would channel it like a rooster tail. You'd go through deep water but hear it in the fender wells...

FuzzyLogic
09-22-13, 08:41 PM
Jim, what you said is the same as I've heard.

I chose Hankook V12s this time around because the PS2's slightly better dry grip isn't worth the 215% price premium.

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Edit: just looked up Pilot Super Sports. Sounds like they're the tires to beat, albeit at a 50% price premium versus the V12s.

http://www.caranddriver.com/comparisons/michelin-pilot-super-sport-page-10

SupertreyG
09-22-13, 08:59 PM
There is a difference between wet traction and hydroplaning resistance. I don't have any experience with Super Sports but I do with PS2s. The SS is supposed to be better in all categories.

The PS2 and Hankook Ventus K12 both have pretty equal wet traction, with the ps2 having a noticably better dry traction. The Hankooks are still very good in the dry, just not as good as the PS2s. Figure a bigger gap with Super Sports.

Where the Hankook is VERY good is in hydroplane resistance. I had my V2 in a heavy downpour on roads that were badly rutted with 4-6" of standing water. And it cuts right through. What was interesting with the Hankooks is the way it channels water. The PS2s would evacuate the water out to the sides. The Hankooks would channel it like a rooster tail. You'd go through deep water but hear it in the fender wells...

Good info. Keep the experience coming!

thebigjimsho
09-22-13, 09:52 PM
Jim, what you said is the same as I've heard.

I chose Hankook V12s this time around because the PS2's slightly better dry grip isn't worth the 215% price premium.

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Edit: just looked up Pilot Super Sports. Sounds like they're the tires to beat, albeit at a 50% price premium versus the V12s.

http://www.caranddriver.com/comparisons/michelin-pilot-super-sport-page-10People had given great reviews in V2 as a tire alternative to the PS2. I absolutely LOVED the PS2s when they first became available in 245/45 18 and 275/40 18 for my V1 with widened rear stockers. Best tire I had ever driven. And on the V2, they were equally great.

Since the PSS was markedly better, but not yet available for stock V2 sizes, I tried the Hankooks as experiments. I was skeptical and sick of hearing from some users as though they were better than the PS2s. While I think some of their opinions are flawed from the inexperienced old tire to new tire comparisons, there was merit. I don't like cheaping out on a car as good as the V1/V2, but it's hard to deny the goodness of the Hankook evo V12. The hydroplaning resistance can't get any better, it's 85% of the PS2 in the dry and for a much cheaper price.

The only downsides is the dry traction on launch is not nearly as good(who cares on the V1?) and I had to plug two tires from nails. Not sure if that is a trait of the tire or a bad coincidence...

kyle242gt
09-22-13, 10:41 PM
I just put V12's (275/40) on the back, based largely on Fuzzy's prior posts.

Did a rain/shine track day at Sears Pt yesterday, they were excellent at all times, even in 2" deep runoff (yikes). Good behavior when they warmed up, no rollover or greasiness.

Very pleased. Pretty cheap from discountiredirect

I've used Kumhos on my wife's Volvo wagons for years, good performance/price/longevity.

odla
09-22-13, 11:12 PM
V12 do great here in the south Florida downpours. Standing water on the road and no problem. These are what i track with in the rain.

carlson_mn
09-22-13, 11:35 PM
Been running 2 V12's and 2 older all-season michelins since I bought my V over a year ago. I think the Hankooks are a great tire. I just wish I had 4 of them on. The only reason I'd go to another tire is possibly for better treadwear but these seem to be doing alright in that category as well. Quiet too.

FuzzyLogic
09-23-13, 12:14 AM
Seconded on the quietness of the V12.

Becker
09-23-13, 08:38 AM
that pretty much sums it up for my next tire purchase in a month or so :) Thanks guys! Also, I think the V12 just looks nasty as well

OneFast V
09-23-13, 11:05 AM
If you plan to track your car i cannot recommend the V12s. While they are fine for a street tire they cannot take the heat of the track and will chunk up and become greasy. I had one set and they were trashed after 1 track day. I would recommend the PSS if you intend to do both track and street driving with a street bias. If you have a track bias i would recommend the Hankook RS3s

kyle242gt
09-23-13, 11:17 AM
If you plan to track your car i cannot recommend the V12s. While they are fine for a street tire they cannot take the heat of the track and will chunk up and become greasy. I had one set and they were trashed after 1 track day. This is contrary to my experience, at least on the rear - brand new, approx 38psi when up to temp, no greasy, no chunky.

This was at Sears Pt on a cool day. G-meter shows 1.07L 1.17R for whatever that's worth.

Maybe a faster track with longer flatter turns could be an issue? Or are you seeing the fronts get trashed only?

thebigjimsho
09-23-13, 11:22 AM
If you plan to track your car i cannot recommend the V12s. While they are fine for a street tire they cannot take the heat of the track and will chunk up and become greasy. I had one set and they were trashed after 1 track day. I would recommend the PSS if you intend to do both track and street driving with a street bias. If you have a track bias i would recommend the Hankook RS3s

They didn't chunk on me but did get greasy...

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that pretty much sums it up for my next tire purchase in a month or so :) Thanks guys! Also, I think the V12 just looks nasty as well

The Michelins look much better...

Becker
09-23-13, 02:42 PM
thats ur opinion.

thebigjimsho
09-23-13, 03:47 PM
Yep. And my opinion is the look of the tire tread means squat. If that truly has any factor, go buy a Camry...

Z06-V
09-23-13, 04:03 PM
Just got some Continental DWS on mine a few weeks back. I live in Utah and we've had some good rain storms lately, they've handled everything amazing so far.

JDB
09-24-13, 07:42 AM
Unfortunately you're going to have to give up something.... $, track ability, wet weather, longevity ...you cant have it all. Pick what matters most and lean that direction.

I've heard from track guys that they V12s grease up on track. Go with the Super Sports.

And don't shift while cornering... that shifted the weight to the front of the car and lost grip in rear... that's why you went around. Sure the low tread tires didn't help, but even on bald tires, you can get by if you slow down and manage weight transfers.

barrok69
09-24-13, 01:07 PM
I'd recommend the Michelin SS's. I've driven them in torrential downpours doing 80+mph without any hydroplaning. They gripped like they were on rails. Thank god for rain-X so I could actually see and drive those speeds!!

I've also driven them on road courses and never had a complaint. They are very predictable and make start to make noise gradually before they "let go".

As for ride comfort. The super sports are significantly better than the PS2's that were on the car. There is no tire noise at highway speeds and impacts and bumps are damped really well.

Looking at how hard I've been driving on them and how much life is left on these I'm expecting to get minimum 40k miles out of them with proper rotation every 10k miles.

If you want a good Launching tire the Nitto 555 was specifically designed for mustangs with launching in mind. That being said, it doesn't work that good in corners, but it will get you off the line in a hurry.

I went with the Super sports because if is truly the best of all worlds tire, and the price is damn good too. You can get them for under $200/tire with your local tire store rebates and what not. I have similar experience with Bridgestone RE-11's. They are a great overall tire for ride/comfort, grip and wet, but costs a bit more than the Michelin.

Becker
09-24-13, 07:58 PM
do camrys have nice looking tread??? which year in particular....? Thanks big joe for the heads up...

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woa woa..sorry big jimm not joe

Dan_Gurney
09-24-13, 11:03 PM
Depends what you want to do with the v12s. for autox where you can spray the tires between runs i have only had them get greasy on me once and that was on the last run of the day in the middle of AZ summer without spraying them...

I've only done one track day with them, (it was at night but still ambient temps still high 90s low 100) and they worked great for 20 min track sessions. If you have not tracked it yet, i would say they are not going to be a letdown for you.

I'm on my third set of v12s now, and will keep getting them. (well until a better cheap tire comes along)

Becker
09-25-13, 12:37 AM
Sounds like the v12 is a good tire for the money unless you can get a deal on some Michelin's. I look forward to the v12 testing I'll be doing against my current

OneFast V
09-25-13, 11:50 AM
Depends what you want to do with the v12s. for autox where you can spray the tires between runs i have only had them get greasy on me once and that was on the last run of the day in the middle of AZ summer without spraying them...

I've only done one track day with them, (it was at night but still ambient temps still high 90s low 100) and they worked great for 20 min track sessions. If you have not tracked it yet, i would say they are not going to be a letdown for you.

I'm on my third set of v12s now, and will keep getting them. (well until a better cheap tire comes along)

If you want a cheap autox and track tire get the nt05. I'm running them now and love them for the price. 275/35 on all four corners for around $800 you can't beat that.

AAIIIC
09-25-13, 01:34 PM
It's worth nothing that the Bridgestone S-04PP is on special right now, and is only $7 more per tire than the V12 (thru Tire Rack) in the stock size. Add in a $70 rebate, and it actually comes out cheaper.

I have no personal experience with them, but they're supposed to be excellent tires. I've been debating picking up a set for the V; the only problem is I have ZERO complaints about the current Continental DWs, so I'm wary of trying something else just for the sake of trying something else. :)

SupertreyG
09-25-13, 04:03 PM
Depends what you want to do with the v12s. for autox where you can spray the tires between runs i have only had them get greasy on me once and that was on the last run of the day in the middle of AZ summer without spraying them...

I've only done one track day with them, (it was at night but still ambient temps still high 90s low 100) and they worked great for 20 min track sessions. If you have not tracked it yet, i would say they are not going to be a letdown for you.

I'm on my third set of v12s now, and will keep getting them. (well until a better cheap tire comes along)
What mileage are you getting out of the v12's? And are they the EVO?

Dan_Gurney
09-25-13, 10:50 PM
What mileage are you getting out of the v12's? And are they the EVO?


What mileage are you getting out of the v12's? And are they the EVO?

Correct the V12 EVO.

Mileage, well that is a loaded question... AutoX kills the tires more than street mileage.

1st set: ~10000 - ~12 autoX events
2nd set: ~4000 ~12 autoX events
3rd set (current): ~4000 miles and almost done. (~9 autoX events + 1 track day)

I think that you could see 20,000+ miles fairly easily if you didn't track/autox them. As my driving has improved my tires wear a lot faster. The last event or two on these i am below the wear bars, but the V is my 2nd car and it doens't rain much here so that is not a huge concern. I finally got a second set of wheels to run different tires for AutoX, but i plan on keeping the V12s on the street. (haven't figured out what I want on the track wheels yet)

SupertreyG
09-26-13, 12:07 AM
Anybody with the Michelin Super Sports have some mileage figures? My local tire shop says they are rated for 45,000. Assuming no track or autoX.

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Correct the V12 EVO.

Mileage, well that is a loaded question... AutoX kills the tires more than street mileage.

1st set: ~10000 - ~12 autoX events
2nd set: ~4000 ~12 autoX events
3rd set (current): ~4000 miles and almost done. (~9 autoX events + 1 track day)

I think that you could see 20,000+ miles fairly easily if you didn't track/autox them. As my driving has improved my tires wear a lot faster. The last event or two on these i am below the wear bars, but the V is my 2nd car and it doens't rain much here so that is not a huge concern. I finally got a second set of wheels to run different tires for AutoX, but i plan on keeping the V12s on the street. (haven't figured out what I want on the track wheels yet)

What sizes are you running? Fatter in the rear or all stock size?

AAIIIC
09-26-13, 10:23 AM
Anybody with the Michelin Super Sports have some mileage figures? My local tire shop says they are rated for 45,000.
Not sure where they're getting their information. The PSS has a 30,000-mile tread life warranty. It is, as far as I know, the only ultra high performance or max performance tire to offer a tread life warranty.

PISNUOFF
09-26-13, 12:19 PM
Tread life is measured in miles, not weeks???

SupertreyG
09-26-13, 03:44 PM
Not sure where they're getting their information. The PSS has a 30,000-mile tread life warranty. It is, as far as I know, the only ultra high performance or max performance tire to offer a tread life warranty.

I may have messed that up. The told me about the new Pilot as3 as well. It may have been the 45000 one.

AAIIIC
09-26-13, 05:23 PM
Tread life is measured in miles, not weeks???
Tires last longer when they're not being shredded by shrapnel from exploding axles or diffs. :p

GrantB1390
09-26-13, 06:48 PM
I'm getting close to needing new tires by winter. The guy who owned my 2004 V put $80 tires on them. I'd imagine they can't be that good, but has anyone had personal experience or knowledge of the Pirelli P Zero Nero in stock size? They are $618 after rebate so that doesn't seem bad and reviews are good too but haven't seen many V owners use them. Any opinions on them?

Right now I'm on a budget with the hopefully-temporary hours at work. Deep snow and ice means no driving for me anyway so I'm not looking for blizzard killers.

thebigjimsho
09-26-13, 08:06 PM
The rear Hankooks on my V2(with 630hp,BTW) had about 20,000 miles on them and still about 35% tread left. The fronts can last to 70,000, probably.

On a V1, I'd bet they can make it to 40,000...

SevillianSTS
09-26-13, 08:27 PM
Pilot Super Sports come with a 30,000 mile warranty.

I love them for daily driving. Excellent grip. I do believe they are sold as a "summer" tire, so I question how they'd do in rain. I generally don't drive it on rainy days. Another all season tire is the Michelin PS3

thebigjimsho
09-26-13, 10:16 PM
Pilot Super Sports come with a 30,000 mile warranty.

I love them for daily driving. Excellent grip. I do believe they are sold as a "summer" tire, so I question how they'd do in rain. I generally don't drive it on rainy days. Another all season tire is the Michelin PS3

Being a summer tire has little to do with success/failure of hydroplaning resistance...

AAIIIC
09-27-13, 06:51 AM
I'm getting close to needing new tires by winter. The guy who owned my 2004 V put $80 tires on them. I'd imagine they can't be that good, but has anyone had personal experience or knowledge of the Pirelli P Zero Nero in stock size?
The PZero Nero All-Seasons, or the PZero Nero GTs? I have the All-Seasons in stock size to use as my cold weather tires. They get the job done. Straight line traction is lacking, but ride quality and handling is good. No real complaints here.

SupertreyG
09-30-13, 07:48 PM
I finally made up my mind and I am going to go with the Super Sports.

As such, I have been testing the coefficient of friction on the Nittos frequently (AKA burnouts at everychance!)

GrantB1390
09-30-13, 09:20 PM
The PZero Nero All-Seasons, or the PZero Nero GTs? I have the All-Seasons in stock size to use as my cold weather tires. They get the job done. Straight line traction is lacking, but ride quality and handling is good. No real complaints here.

Yeah, the all seasons. Didn't notice the GTs. I'd need all season though. We get decent snow/light ice in my area sometimes.

But going back to the OP, they sound like good choices if you decide to go with them.

odthetruth
10-01-13, 05:57 AM
Just got some Continental DWS on mine a few weeks back. I live in Utah and we've had some good rain storms lately, they've handled everything amazing so far.

Same. I've had DWS and probably the best all season tires in the rain I've ever driven on.


The PZero Nero All-Seasons, or the PZero Nero GTs? I have the All-Seasons in stock size to use as my cold weather tires. They get the job done. Straight line traction is lacking, but ride quality and handling is good. No real complaints here.

Agreed. Not as strong in the rain as the DWS, and lacking on straightline for sure, but handling they are good.

2007V
10-08-13, 11:49 PM
I have 265 pilot super sports on all corners and love them, wet or dry. They are very impressive.

Becker
10-09-13, 08:42 AM
I have 265 pilot super sports on all corners and love them, wet or dry. They are very impressive. stock rims correct? no issues?

Pillow
10-10-13, 02:28 PM
All these summer tire recommendations! How about some A/S love?

Currently I am on Yoko S-Drives and am happy (summer tires). But they need to swap out before winter. Much better grip than the stock Bridgestone RFTs.

I'm picking up a set of Yoko Avis Envigor's this weekend. So more to come on that.

I have run the Conti DWSs and was pleased in snow and wet. Dry, I agree with the reviews, was ho-hum. Not on a V, so YMMV. The snow traction was very impressive though! I also have a set on my 911 SC, but it was a bad tire choice since it never sees snow, so I'm not even comparing.

Anyone on Goodyear Eagle F1 A/S Asymmetric? They seem to get good reviews on Tire Rack for an UHP A/S tire.

Donny DeMuro
10-10-13, 03:40 PM
I've had conti DWS and now have Michelin pilot super sports on my V.The michelins are incredible, they are the best street tires I have ever driven on anything! I will never buy anything else. I completely wore out the Conti DWS in 28k with proper rotation and zero burn outs just hard driving. There is NO category ( noise, wet traction, hydroplaning, etc...)in which the DWS even comes close to the Michelin PSS performance . If you buy the michelins you are truly getting what you pay for. The best!

sssnake
10-11-13, 10:52 AM
On the other end of the cost spectrum from the Michelins and according to tire rack providing comparable performance are the Sumitomo HTR ZIIIs. My son runs them on his TA and really likes them so I just bought a set for the wife's solstice GXP (which I drive a lot). If they perform as expected they will be the next tire on my V at just over half the price of the PSS.

For a DD these should work. For track get a dedicated set of R compound tires.

Wingsfan4life
10-11-13, 12:57 PM
I bought some Cooper RS3's and so far they seem to be great...good grip on dry pavement and grips well on wet..I've only got 8k miles on em' but they seem to be wearing good as well...I've rotated them twice already..cheap too like 800 for the set at Discount

JDB
10-13-13, 09:59 AM
It's worth nothing that the Bridgestone S-04PP is on special right now, and is only $7 more per tire than the V12 (thru Tire Rack) in the stock size. Add in a $70 rebate, and it actually comes out cheaper.

I have no personal experience with them, but they're supposed to be excellent tires. I've been debating picking up a set for the V; the only problem is I have ZERO complaints about the current Continental DWs, so I'm wary of trying something else just for the sake of trying something else. :)

If they're anything like the old S03 tires, definitely get them.

SupertreyG
10-16-13, 12:32 AM
It's pouring rain here in east Texas (praise the Lord! we need it), so I got a good road test today with the Super Sports for wet traction. VERY GOOD!! I'm very impressed. I pushed carefully around some corners (with traction control ON) and I only got a little slide from the rear on one long sweep as I accelerated in 2nd. I tried a couple donuts in the parking lot before leaving from work and without a lot of gas pedal it just wouldn't slide.

I'm sold, worth every penny.

Donny DeMuro
10-20-13, 03:38 PM
No doubt about it. The Michelin pilot super sports are MUCH better than the Conti DWS in the rain, standing water, etc. etc. that being said I live in Florida and my V will never see snow.

sssnake
10-20-13, 07:31 PM
Solstice is now glued to the pavement. The sinus will be my next tire.

sssnake
10-21-13, 10:12 AM
Autocorrect six sometimes. Sumis will be the next tire on the V.

thebigjimsho
10-22-13, 12:12 AM
Careful. The V and the Solstice came OEM with the same runflat tire. However, going to non-stiff runflats could make a large difference between cars.

The Solstice is 600lbs lighter and won't squirm the sidewalls like the V can...

sssnake
10-22-13, 09:23 AM
Understood but I am running 19" rims and the sidewalls on the Sumis seem STIFF.

RyRidesMotoX
10-22-13, 02:23 PM
Which sumitomos did you get? I need a budget tire for my commute... I got a quote for all 4 for $460 installed. I have never run sumitomos. I'm a hankook rs3 guy but they are way too expensive for the budget right now

sssnake
10-22-13, 07:33 PM
Htr ziii

repenttokyo
10-23-13, 12:39 PM
For wet traction, Hankook Ventus V12 all the way. I feel comfortable running them at high speeds in a heavy downpour.

They are very good in the rain, I ran them too for about 2 years.