: CTS-V Mod Hell - Fall 2013



FuzzyLogic
09-17-13, 05:34 AM
Looks like I won't be watching the Bears game this weekend. :rolleyes:

http://i1345.photobucket.com/albums/p663/Fuzzylog1c/Misc%20CTS-V/DSC01484_zpsb3a3775e.jpg (http://s1345.photobucket.com/user/Fuzzylog1c/media/Misc%20CTS-V/DSC01484_zpsb3a3775e.jpg.html)

Things to note:


The reason why I purchased new rear calipers is because I scraped their finish, compressing the pads over and over again. After much searching, I finally found a caliper spreader that a) can handle 6-piston calipers, b) isn't a pain in the ass to use and c) won't damage my pads or my calipers.

MAMotorworks makes this beefy thing (http://www.mamotorworks.com/corvette-brake-caliper-piston-spreader-and-compressor-tool-1-114-7794.html)--the pictures don't do it justice. Not only is it a lot bigger than it looks in the sample pictures, it turns out to be finely made piece of tool steel that includes machine oil for the extra heavy-duty threads. For $27, it's hard to beat. And it has 1/2" drive and 21mm hex drive on the end! :cheers:

Whiteline KLL135 (http://www.whiteline.com.au/product_detail4.php?part_number=KLL135) (1-3/8" or 35mm) and KLL127 (http://www.whiteline.com.au/product_detail4.php?part_number=KLL127) (1" or 25-27mm) lateral locks are a necessity when running the Addco sway bars to keep them from sliding sideways, since they don't feature a welded-on lateral lock like the Hotchkis sway bars do.

After noticing some wear on my $20 1-3/8" (35mm) Energy Suspension 9-5168R sway bar brackets, I finally said "screw it" and bought those machined 7075 aluminum Hotchkis 23391375 sway bar brackets (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004MZR4IA/ref=oh_details_o04_s01_i01?ie=UTF8&psc=1) that I've been eyeing for a long time. These things are seriously strong--I think they were originally designed for 4x4 race applications. Expensive as f---, though.

Edelbrock/Russell 639560 (http://www.amazon.com/Edelbrock-Russell-639560-Speed-Bleeder/dp/B000CPCOAM/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1379403522&sr=8-1&keywords=speed+bleeder) speed bleeders are indispensable aids when bleeding your brakes. 99% of the mess and the mistakes you make when bleeding your brakes by yourself can be attributed to using the stock nipples. I liked them enough to buy a second, full set for my V2 brakes.

The other source of error when bleeding your brakes is having air in the master cylinder. Bench bleeding is a pain in the butt, and honestly, I recommend avoiding it because you can do it much, much better, faster, and cleaner with the Napa on-car bench bleeding kit (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00CVGQ6TA/ref=oh_details_o07_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1).

The last part of the equation, this time for the remote clutch line, is the Earls' 280040 solo bleeder (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000CN9DW6/ref=oh_details_o06_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1). I haven't installed these yet (fitment is a real concern--they sell parts for all kinds of 10mm remote line threads), but I'll report back with impressions when I do.

A Deka ETX20L battery weighs 15.5 lbs, versus the 37.4 pound Everstart Maxx 78N battery. I'm going to try to see if I can make this battery last the winter, and if so, I'll never run a standard flooded cell battery again. By the way, the battery is TINY--about the size of a box that can hold 4 tennis balls. But since that small battery weighs 15 lbs, it subjectively feels like it's the heaviest thing ever.

Although the Deka ETX20L isn't particularly expensive, once you add the cost of a NCI Deka battery bracket (http://www.reallylightstuff.com/electrical/braille-bracket) (originally intended for the Lotus Exige), and RLS cutoff switch (http://www.reallylightstuff.com/electrical/cutoff-switch-kit), and insulating kit, it's a $200 project. Never having to remove the battery again to pull the passenger side spark plug / remove the headers: priceless.


http://i1345.photobucket.com/albums/p663/Fuzzylog1c/V2%20Brakes/DSC01475_zps98cbadfa.jpg (http://s1345.photobucket.com/user/Fuzzylog1c/media/V2%20Brakes/DSC01475_zps98cbadfa.jpg.html)

http://i1345.photobucket.com/albums/p663/Fuzzylog1c/V2%20Brakes/DSC01472_zps419c9b33.jpg (http://s1345.photobucket.com/user/Fuzzylog1c/media/V2%20Brakes/DSC01472_zps419c9b33.jpg.html)

The V2 calipers are gorgeous. I'm still missing quite a few parts--need to call Racing Brake, Coleman, and Luke @ Lindsay to decide on rotors (either 355x32mm @ 19 lbs or 370x34mm @ 23.5 lbs (http://www.racingbrake.com/CTS-V-FRONT-09-11-upgrade-for-04-07-V1-CTS-V-p/2189.htm)). I also plan on replacing my Goodridge stainless steel brake lines with either Girodisc or RacingBrake's product, since I question whether the Goodridge kit seals correctly. The plan also calls for:


HardBrake's D1382 (http://hardbrakes.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=123:8a7752a61bf8f28b416dbbdf362f3f0d) and D592 (http://hardbrakes.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=31:41d9b81d4ad2f4af13acfed095ecf393) 1.0mm titanium shims
LG Motorsports' G2 spindle kit (http://www.lgmotorsports.com/product_info.php?products_id=1752)
Corvette C5 Z06 front ducts (http://www.ebay.com/itm/300579633127?ssPageName=STRK:MEBOFFX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1427.l2649)
PFC universal anti-knockback springs (http://www.hrpworld.com/index.cfm?tpc=PFC-Universal-Anti-Knock-Back-Springs&form_prod_id=4856&action=product)
Raceflex double-ply brake ducting (http://www.hrpworld.com/index.cfm?tpc=Air-Duct-Hose-Raceflex-High-Temp-Silver&form_prod_id=3172&action=product)
SKF X-Tracker hubs


----------

You may recall my earlier "Mod Hell Weekend (http://ls1tech.com/forums/cadillac-cts-v/1667991-mod-hell-weekend-08-10-13-a.html)" thread where I fell off the map. Well, it really did turn into a mod hell scenario--a few things went wrong, a few plans changed, and I had to work overtime to get the car operational. :(

By the way, HUGE shout out to MIGHTYMOUSE, who literally ran all over the place, fabricating an extra set of 3/16" wheel spacers for me when I found that my ARP wheel studs were too long for my McGard spline drives. I blew through the ends of two of them before I stopped trying to seat the ARP wheel studs fully, and had to gingerly drive the car around for a couple of days while I waited for replacements to arrive. :usa:

Ultimately, I wound up running all four 3/16" wheel spacers on my front wheels, which gives me 9.525mm of extra room on the inside. The car looks great now (remind me to take pictures)--that typical CTS-V "underbite" is finally gone. Theoretically, now that the track width of my car is greater, the front-end roll resistance should be increased, although I can't feel anything because I've changed so many variables recently.

Here's a comparison on the three sets of bolts I used:

http://i1345.photobucket.com/albums/p663/Fuzzylog1c/Misc%20CTS-V/CTS-VWheelStudComparison_zps9e61569f.jpg (http://s1345.photobucket.com/user/Fuzzylog1c/media/Misc%20CTS-V/CTS-VWheelStudComparison_zps9e61569f.jpg.html)
Raybestos 2093B (1.575"), ARP 100-7709 (1.850"), and ARP 100-7708 (2.500")

Originally, I was running Ray 2093B studs everywhere. These things cost about $1.50 apiece, and are a significant upgrade over the stock studs. I've never broken one, despite having snapped 11 of my stock lugs with a wrench. Interestingly, they also have more threaded length than the supposedly "longer" ARP 100-7709 studs. Check it out, above! Although the stud *is* longer, the threads stop short, like the OEM stud.

http://i1345.photobucket.com/albums/p663/Fuzzylog1c/Misc%20CTS-V/CTS-VRay2093B_zps7af23506.jpg (http://s1345.photobucket.com/user/Fuzzylog1c/media/Misc%20CTS-V/CTS-VRay2093B_zps7af23506.jpg.html)
Raybestos 2093B thread protrusion with one 3/16" (4.7625mm) spacer. One finger is approximately the same thickness as the flange on the Forgestar F14 wheel, so you can see that you're in real danger of losing a wheel if you don't a) remove the spacer or b) install longer studs.

Now, if you're running Forgestar F14 wheels and want spacers, you need to consider running ARP 100-7708 studs in the front, because you'll only get about 3-4 threads engaged on the Raybestos 2093B lugs (at best). Don't even think about the ARP 100-7709 studs--the front wheels won't even stay on. However, if you choose to upgrade to ARP 100-7708 studs, you must have at least an 8mm thick spacer on the wheel to avoid blowing out the end of the McGard Spline Drives.

http://i1345.photobucket.com/albums/p663/Fuzzylog1c/Misc%20CTS-V/CTS-VARP100-77082_zpsf0524f57.jpg (http://s1345.photobucket.com/user/Fuzzylog1c/media/Misc%20CTS-V/CTS-VARP100-77082_zpsf0524f57.jpg.html)
McGard Spline Drive against ARP 100-7708 wheel stud. I'm holding the Spline Drive to show you approximately how long the spline drive is compared to the stud. The Spline Drive is NOT resting on the wheel. In this configuration, with Forgestar F14s, the end of the wheel stud will blow through the end of the Spline Drive. It's hard because the rotor is not fully seated on the hub in this picture.

http://i1345.photobucket.com/albums/p663/Fuzzylog1c/Misc%20CTS-V/CTS-VARP100-7708_zps11bb21c6.jpg (http://s1345.photobucket.com/user/Fuzzylog1c/media/Misc%20CTS-V/CTS-VARP100-7708_zps11bb21c6.jpg.html)
Thread protrusion with one 3/16" spacer, for comparison purposes to the Raybestos 2093B picture only. DO NOT try to run your car this way (as described above), unless you have open-ended lug nuts.

As you can see (above), the ARP 100-7708 is dramatically longer, and engages all of the threads inside the spline drive. As you may or may not know, the ARP 100-7708 is also slightly thicker than the ARP 100-7709 and Raybestos 2093B--both of which, in turn, are slightly thicker than the stock wheel studs. You have concerns about your rotors vibrating on your hub, ARP 100-7708 studs will solve that problem. They're thick enough to prevent the rotor from having significant play.

Follow up on the other 08/10/2013 "Mod Hell" stuff:

LED tail lights got installed, along with the 50W 3157 LED turn signals (http://www.ebay.com/itm/300885479273?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649) and 5630 sidemarkers (http://www.ebay.com/itm/400493654356?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649). Requires load resistors. Amazon sells good, 6 ohm, 1% stuff (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004EDF8HY/ref=oh_details_o09_s02_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1).

Anyway, the tail lights are awesome, but I haven't had time to take pictures yet. Similar to the aftermarket CCFL headlights, you have to futz around with the tail light fitment (i.e.: press them hard into place while simultaneously screwing on the bolts) to get them to follow the lines of the car perfectly--and on one housing, I had to take an X-acto knife to the edge of the plastic trim to shave off a couple of millimeters of excess molding.

The blind hole puller that I found at Harbor Freight fits our pilot bearing perfectly (you need to use the smallest attachment). Sadly, this is after I pulled out the transmission and found that both AutoZone and Advance Auto Parts' tools were too big to fit through the pilot bearing hole. You can save about $20 on eBay by buying it without the case (linkage (http://www.ebay.com/itm/170931421601?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649)).

The Toyota Supra end links (http://www.ebay.com/itm/121150028001?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649) are an improvement over the Miata end links--they're stronger, and much closer in quality to the PowerGrid end links. I'm now running them on all four corners. The pictures on that eBay auction are not accurate. Here's what you'll get (notice how much beefier the ball joints are):

http://i1345.photobucket.com/albums/p663/Fuzzylog1c/Misc%20CTS-V/G37EndLinkAtRideHeight1_zps387d1fb2.jpg (http://s1345.photobucket.com/user/Fuzzylog1c/media/Misc%20CTS-V/G37EndLinkAtRideHeight1_zps387d1fb2.jpg.html)

http://i1345.photobucket.com/albums/p663/Fuzzylog1c/Misc%20CTS-V/G37EndLinkAtRideHeight2_zps5184617a.jpg (http://s1345.photobucket.com/user/Fuzzylog1c/media/Misc%20CTS-V/G37EndLinkAtRideHeight2_zps5184617a.jpg.html)

http://i1345.photobucket.com/albums/p663/Fuzzylog1c/Misc%20CTS-V/G37EndLinks_zpse27275ad.jpg (http://s1345.photobucket.com/user/Fuzzylog1c/media/Misc%20CTS-V/G37EndLinks_zpse27275ad.jpg.html)


My initial cut on the front end links is pictured above. I need to cut a few more millimeters off to achieve the correct sway bar curve and still maintain clearance on the KW Variant 3 / Addco sway bar combination. The nice thing is that I don't have to worry about the Corvette Z06 end links scraping on the side of the KW V3 shock body anymore. As you can see, I've got good clearance, and the end link is no longer crossing diagonally under the sway bar.

I replaced the fender liners with new ones. The 3M Rubberized spray worked well (one full can per fender liner), and I was very pleased with the way they sounded when I rapped my knuckles on them. I recommend putting the coating on the inside of the fender liner, as opposed to the outside, for aesthetic purposes. While the rubberized coating looks great when it's brand new, it's hard to clean if it gets dirty because a) it's porous and b) it's not as durable as plastic.

http://i1345.photobucket.com/albums/p663/Fuzzylog1c/Misc%20CTS-V/DSC01155_zps7b2e5915.jpg (http://s1345.photobucket.com/user/Fuzzylog1c/media/Misc%20CTS-V/DSC01155_zps7b2e5915.jpg.html)

http://i1345.photobucket.com/albums/p663/Fuzzylog1c/Misc%20CTS-V/DSC01145_zps0c903e9b.jpg (http://s1345.photobucket.com/user/Fuzzylog1c/media/Misc%20CTS-V/DSC01145_zps0c903e9b.jpg.html)

FuzzyLogic
09-17-13, 05:35 AM
I found a replacement for my failing PA15-VETTE cord. Apparently, there are two cables sold by USA Spec: one that charges, and one that doesn't. If you need a new cord, get the CB-PA105. Costs $35--linkage here (http://www.ebay.com/itm/280792065975?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649).

I finally got the car re-aligned, following my installation of the Revshift control arm bushings and subframe bushings. It was WAY out of alignment (no surprise there). I actually felt bad for the alignment guy, despite getting my hands on a Kent Moore J-45845 camber/caster alignment tool (http://www.ebay.com/itm/281110785586?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649). So although I wanted 2.0 degrees camber on the front end, I didn't push it. Once I do a few more mods, I'll head back in and get the front camber increased and equalized.

http://i1345.photobucket.com/albums/p663/Fuzzylog1c/Misc%20CTS-V/DSC01467_zps655394bf.jpg (http://s1345.photobucket.com/user/Fuzzylog1c/media/Misc%20CTS-V/DSC01467_zps655394bf.jpg.html)


The big change, this go-around, was almost 0.1 degree of positive front toe, and the reduction of rear toe from 0.3 degrees to 0.15. I'm absolutely loving the front toe--the car finally feels nimble. It doesn't wander on the highway or feel twitchy under any circumstances. The rear toe adjustment took more time to get used to--I was accustomed to being able to hit the gas with relative certainty that nothing I could do would spin the car out. Now, there's less stability margin. Now that I've had a couple of weeks to get used to it, I wouldn't go back. And my tires are probably thanking me--this should eliminate most of the wear on their insides.

69stangscj
09-17-13, 06:33 AM
Can you use that spreader on stock calipers without removing them?

barrok69
09-17-13, 09:38 AM
FYI this Fixed Caliper spreader will change your life forever.
http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/OBJECTS/images/BTCP500_v2.jpg

SevillianSTS
09-17-13, 12:45 PM
Nice work Fuzzy.

what is the rubberized coating on the fender liners for ? So they are more rigid or road noise ?

odla
09-17-13, 01:12 PM
FYI this Fixed Caliper spreader will change your life forever.
http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/OBJECTS/images/BTCP500_v2.jpg

Can we get a link?

philistine
09-17-13, 04:14 PM
That's a neat tool but to be honest I always compressed them using the worn brake pad, c-clamp, and a block of wood.

OneFast V
09-17-13, 04:41 PM
The v2 pistons are small enough that you can compress them by hand. Makes it easy to swap pads. Two guide pins and one center support bolt.

barrok69
09-17-13, 07:49 PM
Can we get a link?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lang-Tools-4-In-1-Brake-Caliper-Press-KaStar-LG279-Spreader-Made-In-USA-/231041123428

The one I originally linked with picture is made by Blue Point. This one above in the URL is "Lang". Looks identical just different color handle, made in USA.

rand49er
09-18-13, 07:20 AM
Dang, Fuzzy ... probably took you three days to write that first post. Amazing amount of research, and the pics are super.

FuzzyLogic
09-18-13, 07:39 AM
By the way, according to AAIIIC (http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/2004-2007-cadillac-cts-v-performance/219790-v2-rotor-caliper-retrofit-v1-cars-16.html#post3297520), you need to plan on carefully shortening the GM V2 M14-2.0x50mm bolts, or purchase M14-2.0x45mm Grade 10.9 bolts.

I checked Fastenal's prices, and they're terrible--$30 for 4 bolts including economy shipping. Screw that. Instead, I purchased 25 black-oxide coated Grade 10.9 bolts for $40 from a local machine shop. I'm only interested in keeping eight bolts (four and four spares). If two other people want a set of bolts, I'll ship you four for $10 or eight for $15.

http://i1345.photobucket.com/albums/p663/Fuzzylog1c/KGrHqNHJC8FCcONU1FQBRP9LYo31Q60_57_zps7cd12a2b.jpg (http://s1345.photobucket.com/user/Fuzzylog1c/media/KGrHqNHJC8FCcONU1FQBRP9LYo31Q60_57_zps7cd12a2b.jpg .html)


Nice work Fuzzy.

what is the rubberized coating on the fender liners for ? So they are more rigid or road noise ?

The rubberized coating isn't rigid--it's for road noise reduction. Specifically, it's intended to help prevent the fender liner from vibrating or rattling.

philistine
09-18-13, 10:00 AM
Originally, I was running Ray 2093B studs everywhere. These things cost about $1.50 apiece, and are a significant upgrade over the stock studs. I've never broken one, despite having snapped 11 of my stock lugs with a wrench.

Why did you snap so many wheel studs?

Junior1
09-18-13, 01:22 PM
This works pretty good as well for swapping pads...

http://www.girodisc.com/assets/images/products/GirodiscPadSpeader.jpg

FuzzyLogic
09-18-13, 01:38 PM
Why did you snap so many wheel studs?

There's no denying that I torque wheel lugs beyond GM's recommendation, but I believe that they sheared due to a combination of that and the number of tighten/loosen cycles I put on them. Taking your wheels off the car and putting them back on once or twice per week for three years is like bending a paper clip back and forth...back and forth... metal fatigue eventually rears its ugly head.

69stangscj
09-18-13, 03:06 PM
This works pretty good as well for swapping pads...

http://www.girodisc.com/assets/images/products/GirodiscPadSpeader.jpg
Nice! Link?

FuzzyLogic
09-18-13, 03:21 PM
Nice! Link?

The Girodisc tool costs $250. Ignore unless you're made of money.

Junior1
09-18-13, 06:30 PM
Nice! Link?

Actually its $225...

http://www.girodisc.com/Caliper-piston-spreader_p_5970.html
http://www.amsperformance.com/cart/Giro-Disc-Piston-Spreader.html

philistine
09-18-13, 10:34 PM
:cookoo:

Anyone who buys that PM me...I got a pile of junk in my backyard for sale.

PISNUOFF
09-19-13, 07:12 AM
Hahaha. I have a pile of parts also.

I still compress mine by squeezing them with my fingers while the old pads are installed.

rand49er
09-19-13, 07:30 AM
... I still compress mine by squeezing them with my fingers while the old pads are installed.When I did mine last April, I did the same thing.

thebigjimsho
09-19-13, 01:55 PM
Pads? With the reservoir cap off, you can just use your fingers...

philistine
09-19-13, 03:03 PM
Fuzzy, post some pics of the battery mod once you're finished. I'm curious how it's going to turn out. I wanna know where you put that cutoff switch. I've gotten waivers for not having my battery secured good enough "teching-in" at some events. It's on my list of to-dos.

AAIIIC
09-20-13, 08:10 AM
I crack the bleeder screw and compress the pistons by leveraging the old pad against the rotor. One of my buddies has the Girodisc tool - it's pretty darn handy, but not $250 handy! He got a deal on his, so he didn't pay that much.


By the way, according to AAIIIC (http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/2004-2007-cadillac-cts-v-performance/219790-v2-rotor-caliper-retrofit-v1-cars-16.html#post3297520), you need to plan on carefully shortening the GM V2 M14-2.0x50mm bolts, or purchase M14-2.0x45mm Grade 10.9 bolts.
I don't remember which thread it was, or who it was, but someone else recently said the OEM bolts worked fine for them. :confused: Mine definitely touched the back of the aluminum rotor hat on the OEM bi-cast rotors. With the Racing Brake or Brembo 2-piece rotors it might not be an issue. And I suppose the cheaper option (rather than buying the expensive bolts) would be to use washers under the head of the OEM bolts to give a little more clearance.

I might have to pick up a pair of the Supra end links for my rear bar. I have Hotchkis Vette adjustable links up front. They're quite beefy, but they required re-drilling the spindle and sway bar for a bigger stud. I've just never gotten around to doing the rears, so I'm still rockin' stock end links in the rear.

FuzzyLogic
09-20-13, 08:46 AM
By the way, AAIIIC, you can still use the smaller diameter end links on the front. Just tighten down the nut on the Supra end links and use washers on both sides to distribute the load over more surface area. I was thinking about having small bushings made once I started to become dissatisfied with the fixed Z06 links, but decided to experiment with the Supra links first. I'm glad I did.

jclayc
09-20-13, 11:25 AM
I recall yooper posting that the GM bolts were 56.5mm and he needed 55mm bolts. I have both the GM bolts and 55mm ones from Fastenal and can confirm those lengths. I should get my RB 2 pc rotors on Tuesday and will confirm whether something shorter than 55 is needed.

FuzzyLogic
09-20-13, 11:34 AM
If you want to cancel your 45mm bolts, let me know. But it sounds like you're off by 5-10mm.

jclayc
09-20-13, 12:00 PM
I'm good with having all of 'em on hand...

FuzzyLogic
09-20-13, 11:06 PM
Look what arrived tonight!

http://i1345.photobucket.com/albums/p663/Fuzzylog1c/V2%20Brakes/DSC01500_zps64821b12.jpg (http://s1345.photobucket.com/user/Fuzzylog1c/media/V2%20Brakes/DSC01500_zps64821b12.jpg.html)

philistine
09-20-13, 11:10 PM
I know the feeling...it looks awesome!

FuzzyLogic
10-05-13, 08:51 PM
Snapped these between cleaning and polishing. In the pictures, the paint has smudges on it, but I think you'll see why I love sunset with this car. The red practically explodes.

http://i1345.photobucket.com/albums/p663/Fuzzylog1c/Misc%20CTS-V/DSC01515_Smaller_zps9ae22b77.jpg (http://s1345.photobucket.com/user/Fuzzylog1c/media/Misc%20CTS-V/DSC01515_Smaller_zps9ae22b77.jpg.html)

http://i1345.photobucket.com/albums/p663/Fuzzylog1c/DSC01515_Smaller2_zpsd2a707de.jpg (http://s1345.photobucket.com/user/Fuzzylog1c/media/DSC01515_Smaller2_zpsd2a707de.jpg.html)

http://i1345.photobucket.com/albums/p663/Fuzzylog1c/DSC01515_Vertical_zps13e13f3c.jpg (http://s1345.photobucket.com/user/Fuzzylog1c/media/DSC01515_Vertical_zps13e13f3c.jpg.html)

Click the bottom image to see the biggest close-up. You'll have to hit the magnifying glass on the bottom right twice, once the Photobucket page loads.

xbladr
10-05-13, 10:25 PM
Some awesome stuff in this thread