: Steering wheel vibration again...



Deltasendero
04-07-05, 12:39 AM
Fellas,

I have fought with the 60-75 mph steering wheel vibration for the past 11,000 miles and 3 sets of tires. My dealer has my car for the next 5 days to attempt at fixing it for the third time. They immediately suggested a road force balancing for $100 of which I am not prepared to pay. This has been a problem since the odo. hit 4,000 miles. It comes and goes and sometimes is not appearant in the steering wheel but feels like it's in the chassis/drivetrain. I have asked my dealer to not stop at the usual balancing of the wheel and aligning the car but to think out of the box and maybe suspect the drive shaft, et al.

I'll keep you posted on the results because I have seen several others with the same problem but no solutions posted yet.

BTW, the Toyo Proxes T1-S are a very nice tire for the money. Not as tacky as the F1's but a much improved ride and greatly reduced road noise. No more EMT/Run flats for me.

:confused:

Dave's V
04-07-05, 12:53 AM
What was your spare tire option?

StealthV
04-07-05, 12:56 AM
I've got completely different wheels on my V and have the come-and-go vibration. Thinking outside the box, could the big Brembo rotors be playing a part in this? They're a huge mass spinning at high rpm. :hmm:

Silver1
04-07-05, 01:54 AM
How about a mis-indexed drive shaft?

SBONES
04-07-05, 02:34 AM
i had my index done, and still have a slight vib. I having the road force thing done tomarrow. they balence with the weight of the car programed in, and they will also tell you if the tire is out of round. they said i would get print out when they're done...cost 70$ ....they said there is nothing better out there, balence wise..

carpe dm
04-07-05, 11:22 AM
Thanks for the info; keep us informed of the final diagnosis. Good luck. :thumbsup:

baf_ctsv
04-07-05, 01:24 PM
I put on some cheap All-Season tires and find I have lots of vibration at 55-70 mph until the tire warms up. Then it almost disappears. My hunch is the tires settle and it takes some drive time to "spin" them back into shape. It is really weird. The original F1's were super rock solid with now vibration at all.

SBONES
04-07-05, 01:41 PM
just got back from Auto Addictions they balenced my tires with a mechine called hp road force my vib is GONE...:bouncy: no stearing wheel vib what so ever. I still have a slight driveshaft vib at 80, when i roll on the gas it vibrates in my ass alittle. 90 mph its smooth as a babys ass..:thumbsup:

Rich H
04-08-05, 12:06 AM
Fellas,

I have fought with the 60-75 mph steering wheel vibration for the past 11,000 miles and 3 sets of tires. My dealer has my car for the next 5 days to attempt at fixing it for the third time. They immediately suggested a road force balancing for $100 of which I am not prepared to pay. This has been a problem since the odo. hit 4,000 miles. It comes and goes and sometimes is not appearant in the steering wheel but feels like it's in the chassis/drivetrain. I have asked my dealer to not stop at the usual balancing of the wheel and aligning the car but to think out of the box and maybe suspect the drive shaft, et al.
:confused:

Ditto - I had exactly the same symptoms you describe starting at about 2000 miles. I, too, thought it was coming from the drivetrain at first. Tried balancing tires/wheels 3 times with no success. Had the tires and wheels replaced by the dealer with an entire set off a demo V with 200 miles. The vibration has been essentially gone since that time for the last 4000 miles. It is almost certainly your tires and/or wheels - likely the wheels (maybe the integral TPS is contributing) if you have gone through 3 sets of tires since the vibration started.

03Z06Vette
04-08-05, 04:08 PM
I had the same problem with mine. I took it to my local (read small) dealer (not the one I bought the V from) and they couldn't even reproduce the problem. I bought new GS-D3s and that didn't solve the problem. So, as a last resort, I bought a completely new set of wheels from GMPartsdirect. I put the original tires on and had a Firestone place I had never been to mount them and problem solved. No more vibration. I am mad that I had to fork over a lot of cash to solve the problem, and I know that not everyone is able to do that, but I am happy that I am vibration free. I am assuming that the original wheels are defective or 1. the factory can't balance for crap, 2. the dealer can't balance for crap, or 3. Discount Tire can't balance for crap. Who knows???

Deltasendero
04-11-05, 11:25 PM
No spare tire, just a flat fixing kit and small 12 volt air pump. I'll let you know when I have to use it and how it worked.

Deltasendero
04-11-05, 11:26 PM
Forgot to quote. Read above post.


What was your spare tire option?

Deltasendero
04-11-05, 11:28 PM
Picked up my car late tonight and haven't had a chance to talk to the service rep. but so far the vib is gone. I'll let you know what they did once I talk to the shop tomorrow.

steve711
04-12-05, 12:53 AM
Ok so now to sum it all up........its the wheels??
I took the V in a few weeks ago and went out with a tech who brong along a magnetic vibration machine (of some kind) and pin pointed where the vibration was coming from.The machine said "prop shaft vibration"......so my dealer contacted caddy about this & they told him about the bullitin that says this is tottaly normal for this to happen.BIG BS!!.So you guys say the wheels, The dealer says nothing can be done.Guys this is all a bit overwhelming.
Whats the REAL! bottom lin?.Coz i hate this vibration that started at 4200 miles'SH

Deltasendero
04-12-05, 10:33 AM
Ok so now to sum it all up........its the wheels??
I took the V in a few weeks ago and went out with a tech who brong along a magnetic vibration machine (of some kind) and pin pointed where the vibration was coming from.The machine said "prop shaft vibration"......so my dealer contacted caddy about this & they told him about the bullitin that says this is tottaly normal for this to happen.BIG BS!!.So you guys say the wheels, The dealer says nothing can be done.Guys this is all a bit overwhelming.
Whats the REAL! bottom lin?.Coz i hate this vibration that started at 4200 miles'SH

stevethankyou-comeagain (in the voice of Apuh from the Simpson's),

Unfortunately I don't have the answer. My Cadillac dealer told me today that all they did was balance out my tires a few times to get it right. I then called my tire dealer whom I just paid $40 for high speed balancing a few weeks ago and he told me they had to have their balancer adjusted because it was doing a poor job on the 18"+ tires. How long has this been going on, I ask. Not sure since it was doing a great job on the smaller tires. Needless to say, I will be getting a new tire dealer, real quick.

That still doesn't answer my question. My F1's started having problems at the first rotation of 4,000 miles. Repetitive balancing seems to have fixed the problem with those tires until they wore out about 10,000 miles into it. I rode them out with some vibration at times until I installed my Dunlop winter tires at 13,000 miles. These tires showed no signs of vibration until I was ready to remove them at 16,000 miles for my summer tires. They just lost some of the stick on weight and were out of balance. I installed by Proxes a few weeks back and they vibrated like hell because of the problem with the balancing machine.

I'm beginning to think that my problems have been a combination of an out of spec balancing machine and the fact that they are using the stick on weights which tend to fall off much easier than the clip on style.

Going to put on 600 miles today so I'll try update later tonight or tomorrow.

steve711
04-12-05, 10:51 AM
stevethankyou-comeagain (in the voice of Apuh from the Simpson's),

Unfortunately I don't have the answer. My Cadillac dealer told me today that all they did was balance out my tires a few times to get it right. I then called my tire dealer whom I just paid $40 for high speed balancing a few weeks ago and he told me they had to have their balancer adjusted because it was doing a poor job on the 18"+ tires. How long has this been going on, I ask. Not sure since it was doing a great job on the smaller tires. Needless to say, I will be getting a new tire dealer, real quick.

That still doesn't answer my question. My F1's started having problems at the first rotation of 4,000 miles. Repetitive balancing seems to have fixed the problem with those tires until they wore out about 10,000 miles into it. I rode them out with some vibration at times until I installed my Dunlop winter tires at 13,000 miles. These tires showed no signs of vibration until I was ready to remove them at 16,000 miles for my summer tires. They just lost some of the stick on weight and were out of balance. I installed by Proxes a few weeks back and they vibrated like hell because of the problem with the balancing machine.

I'm beginning to think that my problems have been a combination of an out of spec balancing machine and the fact that they are using the stick on weights which tend to fall off much easier than the clip on style.

Going to put on 600 miles today so I'll try update later tonight or tomorrow.

Yea yea yea now get my bottle of booze & my sexy hooker (In a voice of krusty the clown on the simpsons)

Keep us posted if you found the answer with your tires.

Harley Guy
04-13-05, 08:23 AM
SBONES,

You tried to IM me on the vibration issue, but when I tied to reply it said you box was full.

SBONES
04-13-05, 09:39 AM
ok now try. I think it was full.

Deltasendero
04-13-05, 09:59 AM
So here's the road test results:

Vibration is STILL there. I put on 600 miles last night on the intersate and immediately noticed the vibration. Seems to vibrate for 1/2 mile and then go away for 1/2 mile and then come right back again. The cycle repeats itself, regardless of the road conditions or surface type. Sometimes it's more prevalant in the steering wheel, other times in the chassis. The vibration was there for all 600 miles. The level of vibration goes from embarassing to 95% gone.

I could get it to vibrate at 60 or 100, didn't matter. Didn't matter what gear or rpm.:hmm:

I am going to write a big long letter for the service advisor, cronicling everthing that has taken place regarding this issue and ask him to fire it up to his Cadillac rep. I'll certainly make mention of the numerous accounts by users in our Forum with the same problem.

On a more positive note, for 300 miles I drove in light to heavy rain with some standing water on the interstate and the Toyo's never even gave a hint of hydroplaning.

Deltasendero
04-19-05, 12:03 PM
Yipee,


I typed a letter to my dealer and asked them to forward it to Cadillac. I don't think they actually sent it, but they called me back today and told me there is now a technical bulletin to address the vibration/wobble in the drivetrain. They didn't tell me the specifics of it yet but metioned that it has to do with the drive shaft. Sounds like they are on the right track. I'll try to get the details of the technical bulletin if I can. They will have the car tomorrow and I'll post results when I get it back.

Anyone know where to get a listing of current TSB's for Cadillac? Maybe we can find out the details on this bulletin. They thought it was a new one but it could have been out there for a while and just overlooked.

don_mccarter
04-19-05, 12:09 PM
Yipee,


I typed a letter to my dealer and asked them to forward it to Cadillac. I don't think they actually sent it, but they called me back today and told me there is now a technical bulletin to address the vibration/wobble in the drivetrain. They didn't tell me the specifics of it yet but metioned that it has to do with the drive shaft. Sounds like they are on the right track. I'll try to get the details of the technical bulletin if I can. They will have the car tomorrow and I'll post results when I get it back.

Anyone know where to get a listing of current TSB's for Cadillac? Maybe we can find out the details on this bulletin. They thought it was a new one but it could have been out there for a while and just overlooked.

http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/problems/tsb/

Deltasendero
04-19-05, 03:04 PM
Thanks for the url Don. I have included a few other TSB's for my dealer to look at regarding this vibration. In total, there were 3 distinct TSB's that mention vibration at highway speed.

SBONES
04-19-05, 03:36 PM
i have a vibration, at 75 the whole car vibrates. Let me know what to do, and how to solve it, once they help you..

03Z06Vette
04-19-05, 03:42 PM
My dealer did the TSB fix, or re-indexing the drive shaft on my first visit. Didn't help any.

Stangar
04-19-05, 04:37 PM
Do ALL CTS-V's have this steering wheel vibration problem to a degree?


OR is it only certain individuals cars? Thanks.

cadillac04
04-19-05, 07:12 PM
Do ALL CTS-V's have this steering wheel vibration problem to a degree?


OR is it only certain individuals cars? Thanks.

Never had a vibration in mine. I have an 04 bought in March 04. Tried to find one in any gear even in 6th gear at 85mph. Still no vib. I still have original tires at 10,600 miles. Will be replacing them shortly. Maybe then I'll have the vib:crying:

SBONES
04-19-05, 07:26 PM
they realigned my driveshaft and moved the vib from 70 to 80 and then it goes away. very weird.. Im still not happy...I want it perfect...at least move it 90, then its out of my crusing zone...also in the morning it seems worse, untill i warm up the tires..and yes it did it befor i got the gsd3s, so its not the tire...

ronr
04-19-05, 08:07 PM
I've never had vibration in mine but my boss has the identical car and I can feel a slight vibration at highway speed on his.

Deltasendero
04-19-05, 10:06 PM
they realigned my driveshaft and moved the vib from 70 to 80 and then it goes away. very weird.. Im still not happy...I want it perfect...at least move it 90, then its out of my crusing zone...also in the morning it seems worse, untill i warm up the tires..and yes it did it befor i got the gsd3s, so its not the tire...

This is what I reported to my Cadillac dealer. When I leave for work in the morning, I can tell the tires are causing a vibrating until they warm up after 1/4 mile. After that, you can drive for 300 miles straight (as I did) and the vibration comes and goes every mile or so. Sometimes it's stronger through the wheel and sometimes through the seat.

I don't mean to make others paranoid and to go looking for the problem. Mine is very unacceptable and you wouldn't have to look for it to know if you have it. Hope to have some results within a week. Until then, I'll be driving hell out of my rental.:shhh:

joshdctsv
04-19-05, 10:41 PM
This is what I reported to my Cadillac dealer. When I leave for work in the morning, I can tell the tires are causing a vibrating until they warm up after 1/4 mile. After that, you can drive for 300 miles straight (as I did) and the vibration comes and goes every mile or so. Sometimes it's stronger through the wheel and sometimes through the seat.

I don't mean to make others paranoid and to go looking for the problem. Mine is very unacceptable and you wouldn't have to look for it to know if you have it. Hope to have some results within a week. Until then, I'll be driving hell out of my rental.:shhh:
I'm in the same boat. Service advisor doesnt know what else to do. I've rebalanced my tires at least a half dozen times.

Does yours change in severity, too? Ive noticed specifically when I pull out of work and go immediatly up a nearby steep hill at WOT, the vibration is very violent. Other times (ie, morning before full warm up) it is still strong, but not violent. While again other times when the car is warm it's mild and inconsistent.

Rich H
04-19-05, 11:32 PM
This is what I reported to my Cadillac dealer. When I leave for work in the morning, I can tell the tires are causing a vibrating until they warm up after 1/4 mile. After that, you can drive for 300 miles straight (as I did) and the vibration comes and goes every mile or so. Sometimes it's stronger through the wheel and sometimes through the seat.

I don't mean to make others paranoid and to go looking for the problem. Mine is very unacceptable and you wouldn't have to look for it to know if you have it. Hope to have some results within a week. Until then, I'll be driving hell out of my rental.:shhh:

It's almost certain your problem is related to balance of one or more tire/wheel assemblies. I had exactly the same problem where the vibration would seem to move from the front end (steering wheel) to the rear axle depending upon road conditions and speed. I can't explain why it happens on this car but it must have something to do with the the chassis dynamics. I thought it had to be something to do with the drive shaft balance but my dealer replaced all 4 complete tire/wheel assemblies and the problem is essentially gone. They tried just balancing them 3 times prior to this with no success. I don't look forward to change-out of the tires when this set wears out (soon).:helpless:

VinCLT
04-20-05, 12:38 AM
I also have vibration, very noticable...typically cruise at 80 mph to work. 05 with OEM F1's at 7,200 miles. Have not attempted rebalance, etc.

steve711
04-20-05, 06:14 PM
It's almost certain your problem is related to balance of one or more tire/wheel assemblies. I had exactly the same problem where the vibration would seem to move from the front end (steering wheel) to the rear axle depending upon road conditions and speed. I can't explain why it happens on this car but it must have something to do with the the chassis dynamics. I thought it had to be something to do with the drive shaft balance but my dealer replaced all 4 complete tire/wheel assemblies and the problem is essentially gone. They tried just balancing them 3 times prior to this with no success. I don't look forward to change-out of the tires when this set wears out (soon).:helpless:
"Wheel Assemblies"???
Please explain in what that is.
Coz i have the same prob as these guys, And am willing to do whatever it takes to get rid of this.

Rich H
04-20-05, 08:51 PM
My definition of tire/wheel assembly is the mounted tire on the wheel including the TPS (tire pressure sensor) which should be dynamically balanced and checked for an "out of round" condition (runout). Note that I have some concerns with the mounting of the OEM TPS which I think could help contribute to an unstable condition - but I haven't been able to prove it.Evidently many of the dealers, including mine, can't to do the balancing as well as the factory so my dealer just replaced the whole tire/wheel assembly. The best way to balance a mounted tire & wheel, compensating for the brake rotor and hub, is to spin it on the car but apparently nobody does this anymore.

steve711
04-20-05, 09:23 PM
My definition of tire/wheel assembly is the mounted tire on the wheel including the TPS (tire pressure sensor) which should be dynamically balanced and checked for an "out of round" condition (runout). Note that I have some concerns with the mounting of the OEM TPS which I think could help contribute to an unstable condition - but I haven't been able to prove it.Evidently many of the dealers, including mine, can't to do the balancing as well as the factory so my dealer just replaced the whole tire/wheel assembly. The best way to balance a mounted tire & wheel, compensating for the brake rotor and hub, is to spin it on the car but apparently nobody does this anymore.
Ok so the tire & wheel mounted.....Easy enough.
1 Q
How did you convince your dealer to go alaong with all 4 wheels & tires?.
Coz my dealer told me that was out of the question coz GM put out the bullitin that said that this is normal.
So nothing was done.

Deltasendero
04-20-05, 10:13 PM
UPDATED REPORT!!!

When I took my car in this time, I printed off the TSB's from the NHTSA website that pertain to vibration at highway speed on the CTS. I also gave them a page of history and detail so none of my information got lost by the service advisor typing in the problem.

I am very happy to report that they have fixed the chassis vibration. The tech notes said "...Steve A said there is a new bulletin for this vehicle. Felt vibration and checked bulletins and found bulletin 04-04-17-003 Reindex the drive shaft to the rear diff flange. Aligned the drive shaft to the rear diff flange as per bulletin and tested ok. Vibration is gone. Steve A. Drove and said the vibration is gone."
I drove the vehicle about 15 miles and yes, the chassis vibration is gone. I had the very slightest steering wheel vibration on a concrete surface that I'm sure road force balancing would take care of. It only happened once on the way home. That will cost me about $100 and may do that if it bothers me. At this point I'm so happy that the repeating chassis vibration is gone that I probably won't mess with what's left. On asphalt there is absolutely NO vibration.

Dreamin
04-20-05, 10:50 PM
deja vu... did you test on your previous '600 miles' interstate route?

Rich H
04-20-05, 10:54 PM
Ok so the tire & wheel mounted.....Easy enough.
1 Q
How did you convince your dealer to go alaong with all 4 wheels & tires?.
Coz my dealer told me that was out of the question coz GM put out the bullitin that said that this is normal.
So nothing was done.

The dealer originally agreed only to replace the tires (+ 1 wheel they had damaged during the balancing attempt) which they felt were the cause of the vibration. However, when the tires arrived they said they had ordered the wrong size. Personally, I think they knew they couldn't mount them without damaging my wheels so they just replaced them with 4 mounted tires on wheels from a demo V with ~200 miles. Didn't make any difference to me - solved the problem in my case. I know of no bulletin saying that any vibration from any cause is "normal".

Deltasendero
04-20-05, 10:57 PM
deja vu... did you test on your previous '600 miles' interstate route?

Not going on a road trip for another week yet but will report when I do. I wouldn't say deja vu. The first time I brought it in, I had a tire out of balance. My tire dealer admitted that there m/c was out of spec. After the tire balance, I was able to notice the chassis vibration. Now that the chassis vibration is gone, I detected once on the way home, the slightest steering wheel vibration however this steering wheel vibration is not even 25% of what it was before the drive shaft indexing. It may just be a characterstic of the vehicle because I am on high alert for ANY vibration at this point.

steve711
04-21-05, 01:10 AM
I know of no bulletin saying that any vibration from any cause is "normal".
O yes there is.
The shop fourman handed it to me right in the Svc Mngr's office.
Dont know the bullitin # sorry.
It said that "all to some" V's have this problem and that there is no need to fix coz there is nothing wrong.

The Shop fourman at my dealership was leaning twoard harmonics caused by the very low 6th or OD gear made this vibration and that it was just harmonics of the mix of low gear & drive shaft speed.

Deltasendero
06-01-05, 12:38 AM
FINAL UPDATE: I had my rims stripped and powder coated so decided to spring for the road force balancing. This has removed any last trace of vibration in the vehicle. They put weights to the inside and outside on two of the rims. The other two didn't take much weight. So after the drive shaft indexing and road force balancing on the Toyo's I am vibration free.:coolgleam Until I throw a weight at BIR on June 13th.