: Safety Group Presses for Tougher Car Roofs



Stoneage_Caddy
04-06-05, 04:26 PM
WASHINGTON - A safety advocacy group, citing a report made public in a lawsuit involving Ford Motor Co., contended Wednesday that stronger car roofs and other design improvements could save lives in rollover accidents.

Strengthening roofs and installing other basic safety devices, such as side head air bags, safety glass and pre-tensioned belts, is the only way to save lives in rollover crashes," said Joan Claybrook, president of Public Citizen, the group that announced the study's findings.


"If the roofs didn't collapse in a rollover crash, the people in the vehicle have a far better chance of surviving," she said.

"Simply strengthening the roof won't improve the safety of SUVs and other passenger vehicles in rollovers," the company said. "Years of testing show strengthening the roof will not affect the outcome of the crash for the simple reason that the injury mechanics are not related to how much the roof is deformed in a rollover crash."
The government's auto safety agency, the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, is expected to issue new requirements this year about roof strength
Yah sure , roofs caveing in have nothing to do with injurys in rollovers ....too bad my head doesnt agree:
http://www.cadillacforums.com/photopost/data/500/959DSC00326-med.JPG



http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=513&ncid=691&e=10&u=/ap/20050331/ap_on_go_ot/rollovers_roofs

slk230mb
04-06-05, 04:38 PM
What happened to produce that?

Stoneage_Caddy
04-06-05, 04:43 PM
that was that crash i had ....if the roof had been built similar to a subaru i wouldnt have had the injurys i had , instaed the roof was tremondosly weak , the G20s in other cases have rolled over and killed or paraliyesed the driver , i was lucky , the driver seat failed ....

The cars had a odd ball rear suspension setup in the 91-96 gen , they would acutally oversteer in some cases insated of the typical front drive understeer ...Im thinking it had something to do with the rear setup sitting on a 3-5 degree tilt as veiwed from the side of the car (rear caster).so alot of these cars end up on there roof after a spin and hit a curb ,grass or something ....

RBraczyk
04-06-05, 04:44 PM
Tree

slk230mb
04-06-05, 07:20 PM
that was that crash i had ....if the roof had been built similar to a subaru i wouldnt have had the injurys i had , instaed the roof was tremondosly weak , the G20s in other cases have rolled over and killed or paraliyesed the driver , i was lucky , the driver seat failed ....

The cars had a odd ball rear suspension setup in the 91-96 gen , they would acutally oversteer in some cases insated of the typical front drive understeer ...Im thinking it had something to do with the rear setup sitting on a 3-5 degree tilt as veiwed from the side of the car (rear caster).so alot of these cars end up on there roof after a spin and hit a curb ,grass or something ....

Wow, I'm glad your alright. And to think if that never happened, no Caddy.

Stoneage_Caddy
04-06-05, 09:49 PM
Wow, I'm glad your alright. And to think if that never happened, no Caddy.
no caddy ...but i would have a 12 second infiniti :lildevil:

Ralph
04-06-05, 10:10 PM
I can't believe you're not in a wheelchair after looking at that pic! :eek:

Stoneage_Caddy
04-06-05, 10:38 PM
well most G20 owners that have been on there roof are ....or are dead ....mine and one other were freaks , the seats broke ...most of the time the seat doesnt break

RBraczyk
04-06-05, 10:44 PM
yea, the other freak accident was one that rolled over and caught fire. Was in a mens journal issue I believe. Some other guy came along and pulled him out.

Ralph
04-06-05, 10:46 PM
well most G20 owners that have been on there roof are ....or are dead ....mine and one other were freaks , the seats broke ...most of the time the seat doesnt break

So if the seat broke, wouldn't that make for a more dangerous situation, like you getting thrown around more?

RBraczyk
04-06-05, 10:47 PM
No, it kept his head from getting crushed in.

Stoneage_Caddy
04-06-05, 10:48 PM
No, it kept his head from getting crushed in.
exactly ...it would have compressed my head stirght down between my shoulders

Ralph
04-06-05, 10:48 PM
No, it kept his head from getting crushed in.

How??? If he landed upside down it would throw him into the roof at even greater G Force??

Where did the seat brake and how did it effect the outcome?

RBraczyk
04-06-05, 10:53 PM
His car was stopped by a tree on the roof. Look at the marking pattern. Mike, find teh pic of your car up against the tree.

I think his belt was still on.

Stoneage_Caddy
04-06-05, 10:53 PM
the car kind sorta rolled onto its roof , hard to explain but no g forces involved

seat broke its recline mechanisim as my head was forced down by the incoming roof , my weight blew out the gears that hold the seatback in a position ...

the pics arent good enough to show the "head mark" in the metal ...the whole right side of my face was swelled up and thats also where the cuts occured ..and the reason for the concussion

RBraczyk
04-06-05, 10:54 PM
no no, the one with your car resting up against the tree.

Stoneage_Caddy
04-06-05, 10:55 PM
yah i had to squirm out of the belt ...see how the seatbelt is wrapped around the b pillar ? that pulledit so tight it could be relesed ...

yah it roled as it flew into the tree ...

why i say the roof was weak is i looked at a subaru 2 days later at the same yard that had went thru a similar crash , it held up very well because of its roof rails and pillars , and headerless doors

RBraczyk
04-06-05, 10:57 PM
Picture Mike! Picture Of Car Leaning Up Against Tree!!!

Ralph
04-06-05, 10:58 PM
Picture Mike! Picture Of Car Leaning Up Against Tree!!!

It's ok dude, I get it. :)

Stoneage_Caddy
04-06-05, 10:59 PM
http://www.cadillacforums.com/photopost/data/500/959G20_Crash_3-med.jpg

rb loves this pic ....money shot !!!

Stoneage_Caddy
04-06-05, 11:00 PM
you can see the marks up high than where the car is , that where it caught as it flew thru the air ..it caught there and slid down ...

RBraczyk
04-06-05, 11:08 PM
I love that pic, too bad it was your baby. :(

Stoneage_Caddy
04-06-05, 11:09 PM
got my caddy tho , she can be just as exciteing on a entrance ramp ...but for all the wrong reasons ....

but i still love it ...

slk230mb
04-06-05, 11:12 PM
Did you hit ice or something? Or just lost traction?

RBraczyk
04-06-05, 11:14 PM
His car went similarly the way mine went.

Stoneage_Caddy
04-06-05, 11:15 PM
hit ice ...did the worls biggest tank slapper .....must have been sawing on the wheel for at least 400 feet trying to get it back in line ....

Cops however ..."No ice , driver was going at least 55 mph in a 25 zone" "Speed judged by studded tire skidmarks"

Now , look at my tires , they aint no studded tires

and how do you leave marks on a road with no ice on it ?

how can you not have ice when its 20-30 degrees outside?

as you can tell that side is still a sore subject , they made me back down ....good ol military ...and htey wonderd why i packed up my marbles and went home after my 4 years was up ....

RBraczyk
04-06-05, 11:18 PM
Yea, cops screwed up my police report too, got me no break on insurance.

Stoneage_Caddy
04-06-05, 11:21 PM
that was the only good part about mine it occured on base ...private property , insurance comapny cant get a police report because of it ...

equivlent of my car flipping itself in Ralphs driveway

Stoneage_Caddy
04-06-05, 11:24 PM
Only reason there was a police report is because or a certian sargent that thought i was gay and tried to get me kicked out of the service any way he could ...so he had his buddies draft one up ....the officers bought it and tried to run me out on a rail ...ended in a stalemate , i got some apperwork and lost my driving privlages for 2 months ....i was to scared to drive anyway so it didnt effect me...

Ralph
04-06-05, 11:25 PM
equivlent of my car flipping itself in Ralphs driveway

I don't even know if my insurance would cover if I went to the U.S. for a trip? That made me think. I'm covered for everything except road hazzard glass, like if I get a stone crack from a semi truck, etc. I'll have to check.

90Brougham350
04-07-05, 10:21 AM
Ford motor group? Am I the only one here who thinks this whole thing is lunacy? Yeah, let's weld a couple hundred pounds more steel to the top of our already unstable top-heavy vehicles! Great idea! Why don't we just put the center of gravity ABOVE the heads of the passengers while we're at it! Sounds like a great idea! GOD some people piss me off. Learn some damn physics, and keep your tires inflated properly. And oh yeah, little hint, SUVs don't handle like Corvettes. Just thought I'd clarify that for ya. Ford....:banghead:

Ok, I'll get off my soapbox now. Dude, that's one hideous crash! Glad you were alright.

Brian

Stoneage_Caddy
04-07-05, 12:58 PM
Ford motor group? Am I the only one here who thinks this whole thing is lunacy? Yeah, let's weld a couple hundred pounds more steel to the top of our already unstable top-heavy vehicles! Great idea! Why don't we just put the center of gravity ABOVE the heads of the passengers while we're at it! Sounds like a great idea! GOD some people piss me off. Learn some damn physics, and keep your tires inflated properly. And oh yeah, little hint, SUVs don't handle like Corvettes. Just thought I'd clarify that for ya. Ford....:banghead:

Ok, I'll get off my soapbox now. Dude, that's one hideous crash! Glad you were alright.

Brian
dude , i agree with some of your post but i cannt agree that its a bad idea to add strenth to the roofs ....Look at a subaru , look at a volvo , there systems are capaple of holding the car up while on its roof , most street cars arent , and volvos/saab/subarus systems didnt add a couple hundred pounds.

The problem is there is little to no regulations pertaining to roof strength. We have piss por regulations for frontal crashes that are tested useing a cirumstance that will not occur in the typical car accident. In this country as far as i know there is no tests or standars for roof stength in automobiles. Alot of cars out there today have the same roof strength as a convertible . There has been a few advances , but not enough.

Roofs really got weak when automakers began to cut up into the roof so you wouldnt bang your head into the roof as you got in. Thats 3 feet of 1/8 inch steel that could have been boxed to the roof structure .....The onyl structure in a roof outside the sheet metal is the braces that hold the sheetmetal up.

I should know , not onyl have i flipped a car but for a few years i put roll cages in water cooled VWs

powerglide
04-08-05, 08:26 PM
Ofcourse a tougher roof matters......frankly its pretty lame how US automakers are trying to fight this thing.

Thats my Z28, piece of crap roof flatten like a pancake.

RBraczyk
04-08-05, 08:48 PM
T-tops. End of story.

powerglide
04-08-05, 08:50 PM
T-tops. End of story.

? My car didn't have t-tops....just looks like that after the crush/crash.

majax
04-09-05, 12:10 AM
My uncle roled a Nissan Pathfinder this winter and walked away unscaved. I found that a bit surprising. It just depends on what you buy:yup: Get the safest car you can.

Ralph
04-09-05, 12:13 AM
My uncle roled a Nissan Pathfinder this winter and walked away unscaved. I found that a bit surprising. It just depends on what you buy:yup: Get the safest car you can.

Supposedly those old Issuzu Troopers are terrible! They just collapse on impact! Good thing he wasn't in one of those.

majax
04-09-05, 12:22 AM
Supposedly those old Issuzu Troopers are terrible! They just collapse on impact! Good thing he wasn't in one of those.

I remember that! It was major news back in '95. We got stuck with one as a rental and my mom was pretty scared. On the trip home I had the flu:rolleyes2