: RED interior in a '93 FWB??



caddycruiser
04-02-05, 12:50 AM
Okay, I thought I had this figured out, but after purchasing both paint chip samples and interior fabric/leather samples off the net for the '93 Fleetwood, I'm left utterly confused about my car's interior color.

For years, I've seen the dark, almost purple-like burgundy in several '93-'96 cars, but that definately is not the color mine is. My car is Cotillion White outside, but has a definately RED leather Brougham interior. It seems to be a shade that was used often in the '92 and older Brougham models, but I've only seen two of the newer cars with the same color: mine and another on Ebay, which also had the exact same exterior color and options list. My father's '92 Roadmaster has the same red shade inside, but I know for sure it was actually available on the Buicks at that time--just not the Caddy's.

So, to any of you "experts" on things like this, how the heck could my car have a Red interior? I already thought it was weird that it was one of the last '93s to roll off the line (06/93) AND that it has a perfectly fitting gold plaque with a wreath and crest and the original owner's name engraved like this: "Built Especially For: (and then the name)".

His son that we bought it off of said it was a special ordered car from Ed Morse Cadillac in Florida, but how could he have "special ordered" Red when it wasn't technically available?

This is a pic of my car (and it clearly is NOT the dark "Garnet" color on the chart:
http://img216.exs.cx/img216/2950/caddyint8gb.th.jpg (http://img216.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img216&image=caddyint8gb.jpg)

caddycruiser
04-02-05, 02:44 PM
Bump :coolgleam

NorthSideCadi
04-02-05, 03:12 PM
Ive seen that color red on a black fleetwood, Maybe you should get leather sample from a 92 or older fleetwood.

caddycruiser
04-02-05, 03:37 PM
I know it was offered (and quite commonly--take a look on Ebay) at the '92 and older "antique" ;) models of the Fleetwood/Brougham, but just doesn't seem to have existed as an actual available color for '93 and newer, which baffles me.

Even if it were on a '92 and before model, this is a very different car, and it isn't like any of the interior could have been shared.

Here's the chart. Even though the Garnet looks a little brighter after I scanned it, it's still the dark purplish color I have seen in these cars--but it isn't mine.
http://img28.exs.cx/img28/1723/fwinteriorcolors1cw.th.jpg (http://img28.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img28&image=fwinteriorcolors1cw.jpg)

Adam
04-02-05, 03:39 PM
its just been redone is all. problably painted the dash red and had red leather put in. no big deal.

caddycruiser
04-02-05, 04:52 PM
Re-done? But it was ORDERED this way from the factory--like I said, I've seen a total of 3 like this. Would they "custom paint/dye" everything at the factory for a car that was ordered like this? I would think the original owner's son, who we bought the car from, would have known if it was custom.

It's just really weird, that's all. It's still in amazing shape, better than a lot of newer ones I've seen, especially the carpet and dash.

Adam
04-02-05, 05:18 PM
could be a dealer installed thing. my 93 came with a gold package and the 93-96s didnt have a gold package according to the dealer. my hood ornament was stolen a while back and i went to get another one and they told me that.

evilrussian
04-02-05, 05:34 PM
Could it be an export model, like Canadian or something?

I~LUV~Caddys8792
04-02-05, 06:19 PM
could it be that by 6/93 they had no more of the garnet or dark cherry leather dye left so they just used some of the buick roadmaster red dye to "replace" the normal color, its interesting to note that my roadmaster had the red leather but it was darker than your leather ( i think it was called dark cherry leather or something)

caddycruiser
04-02-05, 07:37 PM
could it be that by 6/93 they had no more of the garnet or dark cherry leather dye left so they just used some of the buick roadmaster red dye to "replace" the normal color, its interesting to note that my roadmaster had the red leather but it was darker than your leather ( i think it was called dark cherry leather or something)

Not sure, but our '92 Roadmaster has the same red interior shade--but it was available for sure on the Buick.

I really don't think it would be a "dye" issue since EVERYTHING, seats, carpet, door panels, dash, seat belts, etc. are all matching red, and I'm 100% sure the leather is exactly the same as every other FW of the time, just a different color.

I keep thinking maybe there was a way back in '93 really to "special order" something from the factory that may have been very limited and not shown in the books, but "available if you ask and pay for it" kind of thing. I can't think it would be, since this is no Maybach or Rolls, but it is a possibility.

Adam
04-02-05, 07:45 PM
there is only one person on the boards that can give you a real definitive answer. he can tell you real quick if it is factory or dealer installed or aftermarket. go and ask :worship: Sandy.

Sandy
04-02-05, 10:34 PM
Thanks for the compliment!
...and the answer is...

A little background to enrich your understanding of things on the corporate level(s). You've heard of "POLITICS" ... Yes?

Sometimes in the mass manufactuer of mass produced automobiles, an error is made. Joe Blow's golf shoe outlet of 500 stores orders 10 Cadillacs. Okay? Factory screws up, person enters incorrect data, and 100 get built. 90 Cadillacs with no where to be shipped. Nobody ordered them! So, the people who address these situations begin calling around to bigg(er) dealers to try & place these "foster children" ~ So, Ed Morse helps them out, and takes 18 units. He is now a "Favoured Child" status.
Another scenero.... Guy is out of warrantee, but has trouble with his Caddy and calls Cadillac. They send to to Dealer "A". Dealer "A" raises a furer, saying the creep is outta warrantee and he knows knows it and blah blah blah we ain't fixing it for free! But Cadillac finds out that this guy happens to be the brother of the State Attorney General of Michigan...Oops! So, Cadillac tells the dealer fix the car & we'll cover it.

In other words.....FAVORS performed FOR Cadillac BY Dealers, above & beyond the call of duty = P O L I T I C S {Dig}...

So, every once in a while, maybe every year, maybe not, maybe every year for 3 years in a row, and then not for 3 years after that, Cadillac does a
"Select 60" WTF is that, right? The Select 60 are the 60 Cadillac Dealers that "Went beyond what is expected" ~ Translation: Helped Cadillac Division out of a little .... ahhhh, Uncomfortible situation.....

So, how do they repay these dealers? Easy. They make up 60 cars that don't exist anywhere in the world. Each of the Select 60 dealers get one car. (Oh, yes, they do have to pay for it as if normal). But the thing here is that Cadillac knows that somebody is gonna fall in love with it....and CANNOT "shop" it, because simply there are only 59 others in America. So, on THAT car, the dealer holds for WINDOW STICKER price. Read: NO DISCOUNT. This "gift" therefore has allowed the dealer to make a profit of around $10,000 on the sale of one car! Cadillac of course knows this. It stands to reason that the others were equiped the same way, they are order identically with a quantity inserted of "60" ~ all the rest is the same. Cadillac fills out but one order and enters 60 for quantity. I checked further. They built 30 in Cotillion White & 30 in Sable Black.
There was a brilliant Gold Eldorado Select-60 around the final year of the little Eldo, I think 1991 it was. That Gold came from a Corvette color chart.
All 60 cars were Broughams. No Fleetwood was made as a 60 Select.
If you post your car's TRIM code, I may be able to tell you a little bit more. Look on door jamb for the word "TRIM" and see if there's a 2 or 3 digit number there. If not peel up trunk carpeting & look on spare tire cover for the Service Label. Trim codes are in the lower right corner. Post.
I have never heard of a Select 60 Pontiac or Chevrolet. Only Oldsmobile, Buick or Cadillac. Chevy & Pont might have a diffferent "key" word other than SELECT. The owner's name & plaque on dash have nothing to do with it all. The dealer made that for him !

Adam
04-02-05, 10:38 PM
Thanks for the compliment!
...and the answer is...

A little background to enrich your understanding of things on the corporate level(s). You've heard of "POLITICS" ... Yes?

Sometimes in the mass manufactuer of mass produced automobiles, an error is made. Joe Blow's golf shoe outlet of 500 stores orders 10 Cadillacs. Okay? Factory screws up, person enters incorrect data, and 100 get built. 90 Cadillacs with no where to be shipped. Nobody ordered them! So, the people who address these situations begin calling around to bigg(er) dealers to try & place these "foster children" ~ So, Ed Morse helps them out, and takes 18 units. He is now a "Favoured Child" status.
Another scenero.... Guy is out of warrantee, but has trouble with his Caddy and calls Cadillac. They send to to Dealer "A". Dealer "A" raises a furer, saying the creep is outta warrantee and he knows knows it and blah blah blah we ain't fixing it for free! But Cadillac finds out that this guy happens to be the brother of the State Attorney General of Michigan...Oops! So, Cadillac tells the dealer fix the car & we'll cover it.

In other words.....FAVORS performed FOR Cadillac BY Dealers, above & beyond the call of duty = P O L I T I C S {Dig}...

So, every once in a while, maybe every year, maybe not, maybe every year for 3 years in a row, and then not for 3 years after that, Cadillac does a
"Select 60" WTF is that, right? The Select 60 are the 60 Cadillac Dealers that "Went beyond what is expected" ~ Translation: Helped Cadillac Division out of a little .... ahhhh, Uncomfortible situation.....

So, how do they repay these dealers? Easy. They make up 60 cars that don't exist anywhere in the world. Each of the Select 60 dealers get one car. (Oh, yes, they do have to pay for it as if normal). But the thing here is that Cadillac knows that somebody is gonna fall in love with it....and CANNOT "shop" it, because simply there are only 59 others in America. So, on THAT car, the dealer holds for WINDOW STICKER price. Read: NO DISCOUNT. This "gift" therefore has allowed the dealer to make a profit of around $10,000 on the sale of one car! Cadillac of course knows this. It stands to reason that the others were equiped the same way, they are order identically with a quantity inserted of "60" ~ all the rest is the same. Cadillac fills out but one order and enters 60 for quantity. I checked further. They built 30 in Cotillion White & 30 in Sable Black.
There was a brilliant Gold Eldorado Select-60 around the final year of the big Eldo, I think 1991 it was. That Gold came from a Corvette color chart.
All 60 cars were Broughams. No Fleetwood was made as a 60 Select.
If you post your car's TRIM code, I may be able to tell you a little bit more. Look on door jamb for the word "TRIM" and see if there's a 2 or 3 digit number there. If not peel up trunk carpeting & look on spare tire cover for the Service Label. Trim codes are in the lower right corner. Post.
I have never heard of a Select 60 Pontiac or Chevrolet. Only Oldsmobile, Buick or Cadillac. Chevy & Pont might have a diffferent "key" word other than SELECT. The owner's name & plaque on dash have nothing to do with it all. The dealer made that for him !

told ya :worship: . this man knows it.

caddycruiser
04-02-05, 10:50 PM
Okay, very interesting! I got what you said, except for one part:

"They built 30 in Cotillion White & 30 in Sable Black......No Fleetwood was made as a 60 Select."

So my Fleetwood Brougham is one of these "Special" cars or it isn't? I'm back at college now, but I'll have my brother check into getting the trim code tomorrow and post back here again.

caddycruiser
04-02-05, 11:01 PM
Okay, very interesting! I got most of what you said, except for one part:

"They built 30 in Cotillion White & 30 in Sable Black......No Fleetwood was made as a 60 Select."

So my Fleetwood Brougham is one of these "Special" cars or it isn't? I'm back at college now, but I'll have my brother check into getting the trim code tomorrow and post back here again.

Or did you mean all the Special 60 Fleetwood's were "Brougham" models? Guess I'm just confused because ALL the '93-'96 cars are "Fleetwoods" and "Brougham" is simply an option package, not a separate model.

tsmale
04-02-05, 11:47 PM
Another question for Sandy :

Did Cadillac have something similar to Chevrolet's COPO (Central Office Production Order)?

Sandy
04-03-05, 12:33 AM
QUOTE=caddycruiser]Okay, very interesting! I got what you said, except for one part:

"They built 30 in Cotillion White & 30 in Sable Black......No Fleetwood was made as a 60 Select."

So my Fleetwood Brougham is one of these "Special" cars or it isn't? I'm back at college now, but I'll have my brother check into getting the trim code tomorrow and post back here again.[/QUOTE]

I believe so !!

Sandy
04-03-05, 12:34 AM
Or did you mean all the Special 60 Fleetwood's were "Brougham" models? Guess I'm just confused because ALL the '93-'96 cars are "Fleetwoods" and "Brougham" is simply an option package, not a separate model.

I mean ALL 60 were equipped WITH the Brougham package and of the 60, 30 were white & 30 were black.

Sandy
04-03-05, 12:35 AM
Another question for Sandy :

Did Cadillac have something similar to Chevrolet's COPO (Central Office Production Order)?

YES !!

caddycruiser
04-03-05, 12:40 AM
Thanks!! That's what I thought, but wasn't 100% sure.

Looks like we have a very special car on our hands. :) :) :) :)

I was always sure we were going to keep it for eternity, and this only further seals the deal. :coolgleam

A black one must be gorgeous with the red...would love to see one! I'm now on a mission to find at least one of the other 59 "Special" people out there.

Sandy
04-03-05, 01:04 AM
Now........ THE problem begins.

When people find out stuff like this (often from me) they begin to smell
a pot of gold and frequently catch a bad case of the "sell-ies" ~ meaning Hey, I can get alot of money for this car! (The Sell-ies) ~ Let it be known here & now.... NOBODY GIVES A RATS RUMP, nor will they believe you !
The facts as I laid them out will enhance YOUR families enjoyment of the car, but to the next guy, it's just a white Caddy with "Some sotra red interior, that he says is special...he's probably full of it, but whatever....." See?

(and) THEN you get angry with me, for I was the bearer of the "exciting" news, that got your wheels moving to thoughts of selling for a mega price, creating False Hopes.

IT AIN'T GONNA HAPPEN, and I'm here to say it loud and clear. Enjoy the special-ness of it, and enjoy that you were fortunate to find & buy it.

By the way, every once in a blue-moon, Jaguar does this same kinda thing. Theirs are usually over or at $100,000.

DopeStar 156
04-03-05, 01:44 AM
Wow, this turned out to be a really interesting thread..... Hey Sandy, have you ever heard of a "Commemorative Edition" car? I had spotted an 85 Seville and the steering wheel had a specific center plate that was different from the usual one.
http://i2.ebayimg.com/02/i/03/bd/60/98_1_b.JPG
I managed to find a picture of the center plate off the wheel. What was this about?

caddycruiser
04-03-05, 03:03 AM
Now........ THE problem begins.

When people find out stuff like this (often from me) they begin to smell
a pot of gold and frequently catch a bad case of the "sell-ies" ~ meaning Hey, I can get alot of money for this car! (The Sell-ies) ~ Let it be known here & now.... NOBODY GIVES A RATS RUMP, nor will they believe you !
The facts as I laid them out will enhance YOUR families enjoyment of the car, but to the next guy, it's just a white Caddy with "Some sotra red interior, that he says is special...he's probably full of it, but whatever....." See?

(and) THEN you get angry with me, for I was the bearer of the "exciting" news, that got your wheels moving to thoughts of selling for a mega price, creating False Hopes.

IT AIN'T GONNA HAPPEN, and I'm here to say it loud and clear. Enjoy the special-ness of it, and enjoy that you were fortunate to find & buy it.

By the way, every once in a blue-moon, Jaguar does this same kinda thing. Theirs are usually over or at $100,000.


Oh, absolutely not, I would never think of it that way. It's just a very nice big Caddy with a very unique color combo--nothing more. All I wanted to do was to confirm why and how it actually had a red interior and you explained it perfectly.

Trust me, if this car is worth anymore than usual, it's because of the condition and not of the color--I'm not that stupid.

Still a really cool piece of info, and I thank you greatly for looking into it for me!! :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Sandy
04-03-05, 03:27 AM
There was a Commemorative Edition 1985 Seville, Commemorating the end of that style Seville. I ewcently saw 1 or 2 for sale on the web. they were all white with blue trim. Dopestar, check your PMs on here.

DopeStar 156
04-03-05, 03:35 AM
Dopestar, check your PMs on here.LOL! Sorry I've been behind on that. For some reason this thing never alerted me of any new PM's when I logged in. I replied though. Check for it.

DaveSmed
04-04-05, 12:38 AM
It's definitely possible that it is some odd special order factory thing. You checked the RPO codes I assume? Regardless, look at Sandy's car for an example of a special order '93. They definitely made them that way....

Edit:
Wow, I really am needing that hour back from daylight savings time.... :o