: intake kit



elbee
03-31-05, 04:02 PM
:yup: What company can supply a k&n intake kit for my 94 sts:shhh:

K2K
03-31-05, 07:03 PM
K&N can?

By intake kit, do you mean cold-air intake or just a new filter or what?

No matter where you get it (you'll be getting the same product in the end, anyway), you're going to have to get a filter from a different year and trim it to fit right, if I remember the situation from my '94 correctly.

eldorado1
04-01-05, 12:33 AM
Didn't we just go over that they didn't do anything?

http://cadillacforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=35067
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http://cadillacforums.com/forums/images/smilies/angel.gif

elbee
04-02-05, 10:23 AM
Need a Cold intake filter and air pipe. Let the old N* breath a litle easier.

Hason560
04-11-05, 10:16 PM
well if your asking ppl on hear your just going to get argued down anyways, everyone says they dont do any good but i have one and wouldnt trade it for the world. and no it is not just something that sounds good it works good also. mine is not k&n by the way it is actully for a 2002 honda which i cut to fit. nice chrome pipe and everything. any aftermarket shop should be abel to help you make one

danbuc
04-11-05, 10:27 PM
I sure hope that filter on your intake is far away from the ground. If any water hit's that filter, your engine is pretty much done for. Without modification to the exhaust, an intake is pretty useless. No sense bringing in more air, if you can't push it all back out.

eldorado1
04-11-05, 10:38 PM
Those that have a K&N filter try this little experiment:

Put a vacuum gage on a vacuum port(like on the back near the flapper valve),run it into the cabin, and measure the vacuum at wide open throttle.

Install the K&N and repeat.

Post the different vacuum readings here.

Ideally, you would read 0" vacuum, meaning the engine was getting all the air it needs. But since there's inevitably some restriction and friction, it will be a little more than that. It'd be a nice experiment to prove once and for all whether it does anything. I have a K&N cone-style on mine, but no MAF to deal with, some of you aren't so lucky. I don't recall what the vacuum reading was, but it was pretty dang good. Granted, I didn't test it with the stock filter (don't have a stock airbox).

Hason560
04-12-05, 07:55 PM
we all know air boxs are only desined the way they are for one reason and that is to be as quite as possible not for max performance so saying that puting an intake kit are your car wouldnt do anything is just wrong, and no my intake is nowhere near the ground that would be a cold air intake mine is a short ram intake, they do however make a water bypass kit for cold air intakes.

eldorado1
04-12-05, 11:41 PM
we all know air boxs are only desined the way they are for one reason and that is to be as quite as possible not for max performance so saying that puting an intake kit are your car wouldnt do anything is just wrong, and no my intake is nowhere near the ground that would be a cold air intake mine is a short ram intake, they do however make a water bypass kit for cold air intakes.

designing an intake system is a balance of three things - size, performance, and quietness... You can have the quietest system, made for performance, but it will be larger than it would be if you made a loud performance system, or a quiet non-performance system. If they had enough room to work around, it's more than possible to have the best possible performance, AND still be quiet. http://cadillacforums.com/forums/images/smilies/yup.gif

I have no doubt the northstar's system was more than adequate for the stock system, and perhaps even slightly modded. But I have a K&N style cone filter. Why? Because I plan on modding my car more than yours. Reground cams, supercharger, etc. I NEED more air. On top of that, it sounds cooler.

Hason560
04-15-05, 02:16 AM
actully what you should say is you "WILL NEED" more air, i have all the same plans you do, and i may be a little farther ahead of you for all you know. we all would love to have the supercharger and we all have to wait so good luck with that one.

eldorado1
04-15-05, 10:10 AM
Really? I wouldn't mind swapping notes then... What all are you planning? I'm going to be building a custom intake manifold to mount an eaton M112 to. My goal is 450-500hp on 7-8psi. To get there, I may get reground cams from CHRfab. http://cadillacforums.com/forums/images/smilies/thumbsup.gif

danbuc
04-15-05, 11:19 AM
Let's face it, neither of you have anything done other than a hot air intake to either of your cars. The cam's from CHRFab will NOT work properly in a street car. It's a simple fact that the torque moves too far up into the power band to be usable, in a car that's a daily driver. Just ask CHRFab. Supercharger's (and Turbocharger's for that matter) are pretty much out of the question unless you can retune the PCM. This is not so much of a problem, if your car is OBD I. If your going to run 7-8psi, your going to have to heavily modify the tranny, since your going to end up roasting the clutch packs, and will probably snap CVD's left and right. Either that, or you'll end up blowing the head of the engine, because of the rediculous amount of com pression you'll be runing. Not only will you have to find low compression pistons that will fit the northstar (highly unlikely), but you will have to timesert both heads. I don't think the crank would hold up to that much power either, without coming apart.

The only thing a "short ram" intake will do, is mess with the MAF signal, and result in a rich or lean A/F ratio. The stock air box is more than adequite for the engine, even with minor modifications. If you do find a way to supercharge your car, you will have to get rid of that "short ram" intake. All that hot air, will do absolutely nothing for the car. It's probably making less power now anyway. That filter is sucking in 200+ degree air from under that hood, instead of the 80 degree air that the OEM air box would suck in. Even though that cone filter is pulling in more air, it's not nearly as dense as outside air because of it's hotter temperature, and therefor results in less power.

The best thing you could do, is remove any excess plastic from the air box to increase flow, and put some lower back pressure exhaust on.

CHRFab has a manifold for the Northstar designed to be used with a blower. Only problem is, that it won't fit under the hood. That's why the centrifugal supercharger design, that was developed by XMS racing, mounted the supercharger on the intake side of the engine, with a shaft connecting it to the pulley on the oppposite side. This was done, so that it would fit under the hood.

davesdeville
04-15-05, 02:34 PM
Ah 7psi isn't that much. The XMS kit only ran 6psi.

eldorado1
04-15-05, 02:54 PM
Let's face it, neither of you have anything done other than a hot air intake to either of your cars. The cam's from CHRFab will NOT work properly in a street car. It's a simple fact that the torque moves too far up into the power band to be usable, in a car that's a daily driver. Just ask CHRFab. Supercharger's (and Turbocharger's for that matter) are pretty much out of the question unless you can retune the PCM. This is not so much of a problem, if your car is OBD I. If your going to run 7-8psi, your going to have to heavily modify the tranny, since your going to end up roasting the clutch packs, and will probably snap CVD's left and right. Either that, or you'll end up blowing the head of the engine, because of the rediculous amount of com pression you'll be runing. Not only will you have to find low compression pistons that will fit the northstar (highly unlikely), but you will have to timesert both heads. I don't think the crank would hold up to that much power either, without coming apart.


Wow. Talk about a lot of misinformation. Lets start from the top...... You're right - chrfab's cams won't work too well with a 4500+lb car. You need TORQUE to move that land-beast, not horsepower. But that's a discussion for another time..... At any rate, I have a 2900lb car, so that doesn't really apply to me. I have a holley commander 950 running the northstar right now, so retuning it for boost isn't a problem. I would think running more horsepower in a lighter car would more or less equal the stress it sees with stock hp in the caddy. I wouldn't hesitate running 150% torque through the 4t80e, it is a strong transmission. The GTP crowd is running huge numbers through their stock 4t65e's, and the 80e is stronger yet.

You do not need to find new pistons, rods, or billet crankshafts. Alan Johnson at CHRfab has tested the STOCK BOTTOM END to 8000+rpm (note this doesn't take into consideration valve float). He says to do it reliably, all you need are stronger rod bolts (couple bucks ea), and stiffer cam springs ($300? don't remember).

He says the stock bottom end is fine for upto 7psi of *intercooled* boost (important), at 7000 rpm. Timeserting should not be an issue, but that's more of a "luck of the draw" more than anything. Some headbolt threads last forever, some don't make 10k. If I'm lucky, I'll do just fine. If not, I'll timesert it after it breaks down.

...at any rate, don't just take my word for it. Give him a call. He's been boosting northstars for years.

Hason560
04-15-05, 09:11 PM
thank you eldo, im glad i didnt have to type all that. by the way i belive that gmperformance.com has a tranny they say will handel about 700 horse, if i remeber corectly it cost around 3000. i was thinking and this question is for eldo so dan if you have something stupid and negative to say just keep it to your self since that is all you can say. how about some constructive crit insted of just loud mouth sh!t. anyways eldo what do you think of remote mounted turbos in the back where the mufflers went. i have already removed mine and ran stright pipe and it looks like plenty of room. just a thought. i belive i read somewhere that someone was running 20 lbs of boost on a northstar, cant remeber where though but i rember it was around 800 horse, thats a wonderfull number to think about. :bighead:

eldorado1
04-15-05, 10:09 PM
anyways eldo what do you think of remote mounted turbos in the back where the mufflers went. i have already removed mine and ran stright pipe and it looks like plenty of room. just a thought. i belive i read somewhere that someone was running 20 lbs of boost on a northstar, cant remeber where though but i rember it was around 800 horse, thats a wonderfull number to think about. :bighead:

Well first off, I should warn you that I don't know much about turbos http://cadillacforums.com/forums/images/smilies/coolgleamA.gif

That being said, I think you'd have 2 problems. Trying to keep the exhaust from losing all kinds of heat before it reaches the turbochargers, and turbo lag. I honestly don't know how much these will affect it though, but in most applications, I've seen the turbocharger mounted directly to an exhaust header. Adding 4 feet of pipe surely does something, probably adding extra time to build pressure in that volume. It may not even be noticeable. You'd have to talk to a turbo expert. Also if you do not keep the exhaust hot, it will certainly cut the efficiency down, and your power.

I think there is a lot of clutter in the engine bay that if removed, would give up some space for a single turbo. Battery can be relocated, fuseboxes can be relocated, airbox can be removed (cone installed under bumper with a splash guard). *possibly* remove and relocate the accumulator/dryer and coolant tank, or fit a smaller tank in some extra space.

danbuc
04-15-05, 10:21 PM
Yes, the Northstar is a strong engine and all, but they are running them in All aluminum Sand rails. They are not running them in 4000lb daily drivers. While the 4T80E may not be the week link in a drivetrain pushing 400+hp, and at least 400+lb/ft of torque, the axle shafts will not hold up to that stress. Especially if run hard all of the time. You would definitely have tyo timesert the block, since I definitely would not trust the stock head bolts, with a blower.

You can do all the crap you want to your engine, but don't come crying to us, when you blow the damn thing up, because your running 10lb's of boost, and the heads fly off the damn thing. I've been investigating ways to increase HP and Torque for the Northstar, much longer than you've probably owned your car. I'll say this one last time. Unless you can retune the PCM (or don't give a damn, that every MIL is lit up), you cannot run a supercharger or turbo on a stock northstar without some type of modification. Your going to need much more fuel, with mean recalibrating the injector pulse width, so that it can keep up with the larger amount of air entering the engine. Without more fuel, it will run lean, and die. You cannot make the coimparison between a Carbureted Northstar, runing an aftermarket ECM, to the Northstar, in a daily driven Cadillac. It doesn't work like that. There's a reason XMS never developed the Supercharger for OBD II cars. they could get it to work. They had been messing with the PCM for almost 2 years, and couldn't find anyone, who could properly retune it. As I said before, OBD I is a completely different story.

CHRFab, has built Northstars capable of putting out over 100+ hp. While they may be somewhat reliable, they still cannot be used in a street car, without modification to the drivetrain. Having an engine that produces that much power, hooked up to a stock tranny, with destroy it. I'm not trying to insult anybody, I'm only trying to explain that all of this has been attempted, and discussed for years now, without any success. I think it would be easier to fab up some mounts, and modify the bellhousing on the tranny, and shove an LSI in there. The you could have all the aftermarket you want.

eldorado1, "mis-information"? Have you listened to the crap that's coming out of your mouth. Trying to compare a 900hp Northstar being used in a custom application with an aftermarket ECM, to a daily driver? Sure, I could put a 2500hp blown hemi race engine in a 300C, but it sure as hell wouldn't work. The most power, that you could reliably get out of the northstar, without major problems (parts breaking,..ect), is maybe 500hp. Anymore, and s**t is gonna start to fail. There's only so much you can do with it, while it's still in the car.

Hason560, you want some contructive critisism? Why don't you use the search feature on this forum, and you'll see what the hell I'm talking about. You've got all these great plans, that aren't gonna get you s**t. Like I mentioned before, don't come crying to us, when you kill your car.

eldorado1
04-16-05, 12:15 AM
eldorado1, "mis-information"? Have you listened to the crap that's coming out of your mouth. Trying to compare a 900hp Northstar being used in a custom application with an aftermarket ECM, to a daily driver? Sure, I could put a 2500hp blown hemi race engine in a 300C, but it sure as hell wouldn't work. The most power, that you could reliably get out of the northstar, without major problems (parts breaking,..ect), is maybe 500hp. Anymore, and s**t is gonna start to fail. There's only so much you can do with it, while it's still in the car.


If you carefully reread my post above, my goal is 450-500hp. After that, the cost curve starts going exponential, and you have to get forged pistons, beef the tranny, etc. If you wanted to do away with ABS, TCS, etc, just put a holley in it. 500hp from a northstar is TOTALLY streetable in a daily driver, assuming a supercharger. No - don't believe me - just wait until the XLR-V comes out. Cheers. http://cadillacforums.com/forums/images/smilies/drinker.gif

Hason560
04-16-05, 01:26 AM
well there dan dont you worry i would never cry to you for anything, 2nd of all if you had been reading the posts you would see that we are not talking about stock drivetrains and daily drivers even though it could be done, they are just ideas mabey the guys before use failed and mabey ill fail and so will eldo but eventully someones got to figure it out, true? unless of course you still think the world is flat, i on the other hand dont think telling people they are stupid and wasting their time as being constructive crit. untill you have tried exactlly what we are talking about and can talk first hand about how terribly you failed than i dont think you should count our ideas out as not being abel to be done.

davesdeville
04-16-05, 04:25 AM
You cannot make the coimparison between a Carbureted Northstar, runing an aftermarket ECM, to the Northstar, in a daily driven Cadillac. It doesn't work like that. There's a reason XMS never developed the Supercharger for OBD II cars. they could get it to work. They had been messing with the PCM for almost 2 years, and couldn't find anyone, who could properly retune it. As I said before, OBD I is a completely different story.

Couple points. The Holley Commander 950 that guy was talking about is throttle body fuel injection. If it was a carb it wouldn't have an ECM anyway really. I think up to 99 or some year engines you can just use an OBDI computer to control it, so really the supercharger kit would work on any car you could stick an OBDI computer on. I don't know if 99 is the year but that sticks in my head for some reason.


bbob posted this in a thread about nitrous:

"I wouldn't worry about the fears of timeserting. The gas pressure loads on the head bolts are insignificant to the preload on the bolts and the loads and forces induced by thermocycling of the block. The head bolts don't really "see" the combustion loads per se as they are below the pre-tensioning loads induced during tightening the bolts...so the combustion loads do not fatigue the bolts or the joint. If the head bolt threads are going to fail it is going to be something that happens anyway or during a teardown for a head gasket."

So that gives some hope to everyone who's doing a power adder on their northstar who is worried about head bolts.

danbuc
04-18-05, 09:55 AM
I hate to revive this thread, but I think I should state that we're arguing about two completely different things here. I'm saying that you cannot properly use any method of forced induction in a car, that's engine is operated by the stock ECM, with the factory programming. On the other hand as both of you have stated, it can be done, when an aftermarket ECM is used. While this may be possible in a car, it would throw codes. Most looking for performance wouldn't care either. I was also reffering to using the stock tranny with a more powerful engine which would not be recommended. On the other hand, if rebuilt with stronger components, it could easily handle much more that what the engine could produce. If either of you find a way to get it to work in the car either via an aftermaket ECM piggybacking after the OEM one, or something else, please let us know. Many have worked on it for so long, and gotten no where. Good Luck with any future projects.

WoodShoe
04-18-05, 10:18 AM
These trannys are pretty strong. I have a buddy running 500hp to the wheels in his GTP. That tranny of his has held up for 2 years, and the tranny in the STS, is I believe stronger. Sure the clutch packs are gone now, but thats after constant abuse. He runs a 12.7 with pretty much stock bottom end. I have a hard time believing it myself, but somehow its holding up. . . So my point is, having a car that I cant really tune, is really upseting :banghead: