Being very new here and also liking it very much perhaps I should not make a suggestion. However, I'd like to toss it out there for consideration. I would like to see another catagory under the individual models of Cadillac Forums. A seperate topic for the 1985 thru 1992 FWD Fleetwoods and Fleetwood Sixty Specials and the 1993 Sixty Special and Sixty Special Ultra. They did have unique VIN prefix(s) and all too often get grouped into the RWD Fleetwood Brougham cars and as you know one could not be more different from the other. Some FWD Fleetwood questions/statements wind up under "deVille" while others are hiding out under "Fleetwood Brougham". I think that a dedicated FWD Fleetwood / Sixty Special forum would be a good thing. :banana:

Hey Sandy - all suggestions are welcome. Splitting the Fleetwoods into RWD and FWD has been brought up before. We have been cautious not to add too many Forums to avoid getting cumbersome - however, we are looking at making some changes and additions as we grow, and this is one we will consider, especially now that our Webmaster has a Fleetwood.

Hi Sandy.. Thank you for the suggestion. We love suggestions. :) So never feel funny about making them... I think we've been leaning more towards seperating the Fleetwood discussions into a Fleetwood area. That would mean all Fleetwoods would be in this one forum.

This would be an improvement because Fleetwood owners wouldn't have to browse through all the DeVille discussions.. What you're suggesting would be an even further improvement - but I don't know if we're quite ready for that just yet. If we're going to have another forum, it'll need to be active enough to keep it around. I think that in time, we could seperate the FWD Fleetwoods and RWD Fleetwoods with a Subforum INSIDE the Fleetwood area..

This is only my idea of how it should be.. I think this is generally what we want here but I could be wrong. The bottom line is, whatever happens here is going to be the direct result of what the people (like you) want.. If enough people want seperate forums for FWD and RWD Fleetwoods, then that'll happen...

Thanks again! And let's talk more about it...

Oh, I've got enough info on '89-'93 FWD Fleetwoods/Sixty Specials to keep a dedicated forum :bouncy: hoppin' ~ Lots & lots of factory memos, production data, specs and lots more! I'd like to see it become a reality, and I hope other owners would as well. Sal, did you catch my car's photos ('ya, under deVille!) ~ The deep Plum one with Sno White Interior.

Forgive me for my cynicism, but we already have respective forums for these cars. The RWD Fleets can have their own line of discussion because they differ greatly from normal Cadillacs - IE 350's, lack of convienience features, size, etc. The FWD fleets are IMHO rebadged DeVilles. Same motor (4.5 or 4.9) and similar design.

I was thinking about the same thing as 2dfx - RWD fleetwoods can have their own forum, FWD fleets can go with the deville cause they're so similar. Old school fleets can go in the classic section *when* we get it :)

Oh, I've got enough info on '89-'93 FWD Fleetwoods/Sixty Specials to keep a dedicated forum :bouncy: hoppin' ~ Lots & lots of factory memos, production data, specs and lots more! I'd like to see it become a reality, and I hope other owners would as well. Sal, did you catch my car's photos ('ya, under deVille!) ~ The deep Plum one with Sno White Interior.

You got production data? I would sure like to know how many 1991 FWD Fleetwoods were made compared to Devilles. If you can break it down more, how many 1991 FWD Fleetwoods were made in "Light Antelope" color? I don't see too many Fleetwoods like mine, and I see about 7 Devilles for every 3 Fleets. I have only seen one other like mine but it was a 1990 with the 4.5L. Most people don't really take care of them too good.

You got production data? I would sure like to know how many 1991 FWD Fleetwoods were made compared to Devilles. If you can break it down more, how many 1991 FWD Fleetwoods were made in "Light Antelope" color? I don't see too many Fleetwoods like mine, and I see about 7 Devilles for every 3 Fleets. I have only seen one other like mine but it was a 1990 with the 4.5L. Most people don't really take care of them too good.
.

The 1991 FWD Fleetwoods totaled 15,126 manufactured thusly:-
894 Coupes / 12,979 Sedans and 1,253 Sedans with the "Sixty Special" Interior Package featuring those 22-way power heated seats. "Antelope Firemist" was the 3rd most popular color on them, with 2,410 of the 15,126, or 15.9%. deVilles:- (1991) 11,240 Coupes; 121,543 Sedans and 1,500 deVille Touring Sedans, totaling 134,283. Therefore, 10% were Fleetwoods and 90% were deVilles, or put another way, out of a dealer stock of 11 FWD "C" bodies, 10 were deVilles & 1 was a Fleetwood.
I still would like to see a FWD Fleetwood forum. Granted, it's basically a deVille, but other than an extra set of doors, a 1990's Seville is basically a Eldorado, too. I even have photos of a couple of Seville Coupes that were made up, and are running around in Michigan, just about unnoticed by the masses. Due to their exceptionally low production numbers, I feel the FWD Fleetwoods are very interesting and may, in the future fall into the "Special Interest" catagory of collectibles, whereas there are just too many deVilles to generate much interest among collectors and/or hobbyists.
(A further breakout of those Antelope Firemists on Fleetwoods would be:-
140 Coupes in color & 2,270 Sedan in color. The Antelope Firemist was NOT available in combination with the Sixty Special Option on the Fleetwood Sedan, due to lack of a compatable interior color.

S A N D Y

I'm still on the fence about what to do here. Even if the FWD Fleetwoods are similar to the DeVilles, they need to go into the Fleetwood section.. What would Cadillac itself do? It would be too confusing otherwise..

Maybe we can just take the Fleetwood posts out of the DeVille section and create a Fleetwood area. Then, create a subforum for either the RWD or FWD platform. THAT would seperate things nicely. OR, just leave the RWD and FWD together in that same forum.. Either way seems fine..

What do you think?

I'm still on the fence about what to do here. Even if the FWD Fleetwoods are similar to the DeVilles, they need to go into the Fleetwood section.. What would Cadillac itself do? It would be too confusing otherwise..

Maybe we can just take the Fleetwood posts out of the DeVille section and create a Fleetwood area. Then, create a subforum for either the RWD or FWD platform. THAT would seperate things nicely. OR, just leave the RWD and FWD together in that same forum.. Either way seems fine..

What do you think?


I think that you hit upon a workable and excellent common sence solution >> :) <<

Sandy, thanks!! that's great info and numbers. Now I'm scared to drive my car. LOL! It's rare. ;) As far as I know my color is called "light antelope" I've never heard of "antelope firemist," wasn't that a red color? I'm holding the original touch up bottle that the dealer gave my dad in 1991, and it is: "Lt. Antelope F/M 95, 1989. #12345425"
And another bottle for the silver lower half of the car called "warm silver." We have never needed these touch up bottles because it was hardly driven, so they are dried up. I hope I can still order more if need be.

I do think RWD and FWD Fleetwoods should be seperated somehow...

.

The 1991 FWD Fleetwoods totaled 15,126 manufactured thusly:-
894 Coupes / 12,979 Sedans and 1,253 Sedans with the "Sixty Special" Interior Package featuring those 22-way power heated seats. "Antelope Firemist" was the 3rd most popular color on them, with 2,410 of the 15,126, or 15.9%. deVilles:- (1991) 11,240 Coupes; 121,543 Sedans and 1,500 deVille Touring Sedans, totaling 134,283. Therefore, 10% were Fleetwoods and 90% were deVilles, or put another way, out of a dealer stock of 11 FWD "C" bodies, 10 were deVilles & 1 was a Fleetwood.
I still would like to see a FWD Fleetwood forum. Granted, it's basically a deVille, but other than an extra set of doors, a 1990's Seville is basically a Eldorado, too. I even have photos of a couple of Seville Coupes that were made up, and are running around in Michigan, just about unnoticed by the masses. Due to their exceptionally low production numbers, I feel the FWD Fleetwoods are very interesting and may, in the future fall into the "Special Interest" catagory of collectibles, whereas there are just too many deVilles to generate much interest among collectors and/or hobbyists.
(A further breakout of those Antelope Firemists on Fleetwoods would be:-
140 Coupes in color & 2,270 Sedan in color. The Antelope Firemist was NOT available in combination with the Sixty Special Option on the Fleetwood Sedan, due to lack of a compatable interior color.

S A N D Y

OWNED!!!!!!!!!!

davesdeville was statistically SHUT DOWN! :D

Ralph:-

"Lt. Antelope F/M 95, 1989."

The F/M stands for Firemist, the Code of 95 bears that out. It's "Light Antelope Firemist" GMpaint code for 1991 of 095.

OWNED!!!!!!!!!!

davesdeville was statistically SHUT DOWN! :D


I said the same thing as you so if anything you got your ass shut down.

My take on this is that being the owner of a rear wheel drive 1991 Brougham D'Elegance, which is basically a RWD Fleetwood, I don't want to be going through a general Fleetwood forum and reading a ton of front wheel drive stuff which has nothing do with my car. :p

That being said, since the FWD Fleetwoods and DeVilles are basically the same car with some trim differences I think the best way to do a split would be a forum for FWD DeVilles and Fleetwoods and one for RWD DeVilles, Broughams and Fleetwoods. Why group ALL Fleetwoods together just because they have the same name when the differences between RWD ones and FWD ones are so much BIGGER then FWD DeVilles and Fleetwoods?

Another way of looking at splitting the FWD cars between DeVille and Fleetwood is that most of the questions I've seen about them seem to go for both since the body style is the same. So lets say someone who has a FWD Fleetwood has a general question about a window problem or something and posts it in the Fleetwood forum. Chances are good that the RWD owners aren't going to be able to offer much advice to them because they have no experience with the car and a DeVille owner won't have any adivce for them since they don't have a Fleetwood and won't be reading the Fleetwood forum.

I'm still on the fence about what to do here. Even if the FWD Fleetwoods are similar to the DeVilles, they need to go into the Fleetwood section.. What would Cadillac itself do?

When it came to service manuals Cadillac split them up between FWD and RWD and not by name. So maybe that's something to consider too ;)

I agree with you, Brougham on the point of FWD with FWD and RWD with RWD. The common sense factor of that cannot be denied.
But right now, if I recall the headings, Brougham is together with Fleetwood (which one FWD/RWD) as well as deVille and Sixty Special of '93. I guess ideally it should be FWD deVille & FWD Fleetwood & FWD 60 Special on one thread/topic and RWD deVille Fleetwood & Fleetwood Brougham on another. Right ?? Does that make sence ?

Yep, that's what I was thinking Sandy.

'Ya, that's better than how it is now.
I am not a huge fan of FWD, allthough I cannnot say that I hate it either. I just love the style of the 1989-1992 FWD Fleetwoods and the 1993 60~Special. The last of the angular styled, long and low fender skirted whitewalled Caddy.

The way the sub-heading reads now is:-
Forum for discussions regarding the DeVille, Fleetwood, Brougham and 60 Special.

More better would be:
FWD DeVille, FWD Fleetwood and FWD 60 Special

While a new heading would read:
RWD DeVille, RWD Fleetwood, RWD Brougham and RWD 60 Special

Ralph:-

"Lt. Antelope F/M 95, 1989."

The F/M stands for Firemist, the Code of 95 bears that out. It's "Light Antelope Firemist" GMpaint code for 1991 of 095.

OMG! I should have realized that FM could mean Firemist. :disappoin Thanks again for the valuable (to me) info on production numbers, I cannot wait to show them to dad.

What is the car, Ralph ? A Coupe? A Sedan ? or a 60-Spcl. ?

I'm still on the fence about what to do here. Even if the FWD Fleetwoods are similar to the DeVilles, they need to go into the Fleetwood section.. What would Cadillac itself do? It would be too confusing otherwise..

Maybe we can just take the Fleetwood posts out of the DeVille section and create a Fleetwood area. Then, create a subforum for either the RWD or FWD platform. THAT would seperate things nicely. OR, just leave the RWD and FWD together in that same forum.. Either way seems fine..

What do you think?

Why don't we do what Cadillac did? Split it up similarly to the way the Factory service manuals are. (Ex: 1992-93 Deville/Fleetwood/Sixty Special) Then have a classic Caddy section dealing with cars equipped with the 368/425/472/500 family of engines and older. Perhaps a specialty section for commercial vehicles (hearses, ambulances, limos, etc.) would draw more traffic too.

What is the car, Ralph ? A Coupe? A Sedan ? or a 60-Spcl. ?

There are a couple of pics of it under "the official Cadillac pic thread" (under Appearance and Detailing) on the last page of posts or so, check it out. Wes posted them for me. E-mail me off board I'll send you some great pics showing the dash, engine, etc. It's a sedan, with only 25,200 miles or 40,600 kms. All original and never winter driven. My dad bought it new and had three other cars. All we ever had to do to it was a new battery and long life coolant a couple of years ago. Oh, I had the radio fixed (a factory defect) earlier this year costing me 355.00 ! It is sort of unofficially for sale, but I haven't decided totally yet. The almighty dollar rules.

Went on a hunt to find it, Ralph. 1:40AM I found it!! BIG PICTURE! Looks real nice, and yes, that's Light Antelope FireMist. Ralph, lose the mud guards :disappoin

Wanna breed 'em ?

http://www.cadillacforums.com/photopost/data/503/26sandy2-med.jpg

Went on a hunt to find it, Ralph. 1:40AM I found it!! BIG PICTURE! Looks real nice, and yes, that's Light Antelope FireMist. Ralph, lose the mud guards :disappoin

Wanna breed 'em ?

http://www.cadillacforums.com/photopost/data/503/26sandy2-med.jpg

Lets breed 'em, the offspring will be worth some money. LOL! I love your wide-whitewalls, very classy. You cannot tell from that angle, but the mudflaps have the caddy emblem on them, and the dealer installed them in '91. I'm glad I now know what the color is called for my car. I am disappointed that the brochure that year did not show the colors available!

Sandy, your interior looks white, very nice. I didn't know you could get white for these. Also, what brand and size are your tires??

Tires are "Vogue" whitewalls with narrowm gold stripe, purchased from selling dealer prior to delivery of car to me. $795.00 for the 4 mounted & balanced. They are the same size as the factory installed stock tire. The interior is Alabaster White with black dash, carpets, steering wheel & column and rear hat shelf fabric. Here's a decent photo:-

http://www.cadillacforums.com/photopost/data/503/26sandy3-med.jpg

It's flawless, and never allowed to get dirty. It's a 1-off. The only 1993 Cadillac (in any model) in Deep Plum Pearl with white interior.

Here's the tires and the factory optional "Chrome Wheels" of 1993.

http://www.cadillacforums.com/photopost/data/503/26sandy1-med.jpg

Ralph I think mine is the same colour as yours. Except my door bottoms match the paint.

Get it in the right light and it looks kinda pink too :bonkers:

Yet at the same time it can also look a dark colour too. I always say it's a sand colour. Is it the firemist paint that does that? I don't think mine has the FM in the code tho.

Tires are "Vogue" whitewalls with narrowm gold stripe, purchased from selling dealer prior to delivery of car to me. $795.00 for the 4 mounted & balanced. They are the same size as the factory installed stock tire. The interior is Alabaster White with black dash, carpets, steering wheel & column and rear hat shelf fabric. Here's a decent photo:-

http://www.cadillacforums.com/photopost/data/503/26sandy3-med.jpg

It's flawless, and never allowed to get dirty. It's a 1-off. The only 1993 Cadillac (in any model) in Deep Plum Pearl with white interior.

Here's the tires and the factory optional "Chrome Wheels" of 1993.

http://www.cadillacforums.com/photopost/data/503/26sandy1-med.jpg

I wanted those tires until you told me the price! And that's in American dollars!!?? I have never seen another pair of tires like that with the gold also. I love that interior, very classic! I mean how many cars today have a white leather interior? NONE that I know of.

Get it in the right light and it looks kinda pink too :bonkers:

Yet at the same time it can also look a dark colour too. I always say it's a sand colour. Is it the firemist paint that does that? I don't think mine has the FM in the code tho.

I'm sure that is the same color as mine. The paint seems to change shades in different light, and I think it might have something to do with the metallic of it. If I look closely at mine, it has little sparkles in it, so I think it is metallic. Very nice Brougham, Brougham! :D I think we have a rare color.

Maybe Sandy can tell us what is the most popular color, if LAFM is the third most popular. ;)

I'm sure that is the same color as mine. The paint seems to change shades in different light, and I think it might have something to do with the metallic of it. If I look closely at mine, it has little sparkles in it, so I think it is metallic. Very nice Brougham, Brougham! :D I think we have a rare color.

Maybe Sandy can tell us what is the most popular color, if LAFM is the third most popular. ;)

Cotillion White by 2 to 1 over 2nd place

Thanks Ralph! That colour wasn't my first choice but I still like it. You're right that you don't see all that many Cadillacs around in that colour. I think I've seen a couple of each model for those years around but I've seen a lot more of other colours. Lately I've seen 2 Broughams the same colour as mine, but maybe a bit darker. Don't know if they were the D'Elegance or not and neither had the optional real wire wheels like mine has. Maybe it was the same car with different drivers both times?

I was going to say that I think I've seen more white ones then others. Blue, silver, and deep red or purple seem to be other colours I see a lot of. When I was at the dealer once picking up something else I asked about touch up paint. He said it wasn't available anymore but gave me the paint code on the computer. I got a bottle of Canadian Tire touch up paint to do a couple spots. They didn't have a GM colour that was close to it at all so I got another one that looked close and so far it seems to be almost an exact match. I only did one spot and I've only paid attention to it once outside so I don't know how well it looks in different light yet. But if it does end up looking pretty good I'll pass the number along to you if you want it.

Sandy, do you have a breakdown like that for my car? I'd be really interested in seeing that. So far the only thing I know is that in 1991 there were 27,231 Broughams made.

Sandy, do you have a breakdown like that for my car? I'd be really interested in seeing that. So far the only thing I know is that in 1991 there were 27,231 Broughams made.
************************************************** ****
6,682 - Cotillion White
4,045 - Antelope Firemist
3,077 - Black~Sapphire
3,031 - Sable Black
1,916 - Academy Gray
1,692 - Victorian Red
1,660 - Sapphire Blue Firemist
1,540 - Platinum
1,442 - Light Sapphire Blue
1,345 - Maple Red
0,799 - Dark Antelope Brown
0,002 - Mary Kay Pink (Mountain Laurel)

S A N D Y (There is ONLY 1 !)

Thanks Sandy!! :D WOW!

I guess they pushed different colours for different areas or something. I've seen more white then other colours too, but I've seen more black, blue, grey, and silver Broughams then the light antelope.

Now I just need to find out how many had the D'Elegance package and how many had the 5.7 and how many had the real wire wheels. Do you know where I can find any of that out? ;)

Sandy, do you have a breakdown like that for my car? I'd be really interested in seeing that. So far the only thing I know is that in 1991 there were 27,231 Broughams made.
************************************************** ****
6,682 - Cotillion White
4,045 - Antelope Firemist
3,077 - Black~Sapphire
3,031 - Sable Black
1,916 - Academy Gray
1,692 - Victorian Red
1,660 - Sapphire Blue Firemist
1,540 - Platinum
1,442 - Light Sapphire Blue
1,345 - Maple Red
0,799 - Dark Antelope Brown
0,002 - Mary Kay Pink (Mountain Laurel)

S A N D Y (There is ONLY 1 !)

Just out of curiosity, do you have the same breakdown for the 94 DeVille'?

No, Brougham ~ I do NOT have the "Option Report" which is what you seek.

2dfx What or which 1994 deVille, do you seek ??

No, Brougham ~ I do NOT have the "Option Report" which is what you seek.

2dfx What or which 1994 deVille, do you seek ??

Oh well..Thanks anyway. The D'Elegance option is pretty much the same on them as Fleetwood is to DeVille, so since you had that and moreso the sixty special I just had to ask. My search continues :crying2: ....

Broughm, it's strange that for my FWD, antelope firemist was a rare color, and for you big-ass RWD it was more common! :D Those numbers are interesting though, Sandy, and if you want you could have a full-time job posting that kind of info for everyone interested in their car. ;)

Would be good, 'ya know ~ when I retire! A little something to do! For now - well a little time consuming and trying to fit it into a day would make me :excited:

At least you know we appreciate you doing it :thumbsup:

Ralph, that's what I was thinking too, but only 14.85% of them came with it so on them it's actually rarer then on the Fleetwood, except that it's the 2nd most common colour. But it's not as rare I guess since there were some more Broughams made. Confusing :bonkers:.
I actually see more Fleetwoods around. Maybe people who own Broughams only use them for trips or highway driving :confused: Parking is probably the hardest thing about them.

At least you know we appreciate you doing it :thumbsup:

Ralph, that's what I was thinking too, but only 14.85% of them came with it so on them it's actually rarer then on the Fleetwood, except that it's the 2nd most common colour. But it's not as rare I guess since there were some more Broughams made. Confusing :bonkers:.
I actually see more Fleetwoods around. Maybe people who own Broughams only use them for trips or highway driving :confused: Parking is probably the hardest thing about them.

Another wierd thing. I can judge a larger car a little better than a smaller one because my first car was a 1970 Plymouth Fury I. Your basic quintessential land yacht. I mean, pull up some bench seats, and you can seat twelve for a picnic on the hood! I cannot seem to judge where the wheels are when I parallel park my Caddy though, and I have scuffed my whitewalls. :disappoin But I'm sure you have the nice floaty ride.

The info and production numbers certainly IS appreciated Sandy, thanks again.

No, Brougham ~ I do NOT have the "Option Report" which is what you seek.

2dfx What or which 1994 deVille, do you seek ??

Sandy - sorry for delay of reply.

1994 SEDAN DeVille with 4.9

Sedan deVille - 1994 (Excluding "Concours") !
15,516 - Cotillion White
10,101 - Calypso Green
08,722 - Frost Beige
07,906 - Polo Green
07,866 - White Diamond
05,959 - Platinum
05,112 - Dark Cherry
04,967 - Carmine Red
0,4960 - Sable Black
03,413 - Academy Gray
03,239 - Medium Montana Blue
03,133 - Light Montana Blue
02,856 - Dark Adriatic Blue
02,497 - Mocha
01,107 - Dark Montana Blue
0,0506 - Mary Kay Pink (Mountain Laurel)

Total made = 87,860

Sedan deVille - 1994 (Excluding "Concours") !
15,516 - Cotillion White
10,101 - Calypso Green
08,722 - Frost Beige
07,906 - Polo Green
07,866 - White Diamond
05,959 - Platinum
05,112 - Dark Cherry
04,967 - Carmine Red
0,4960 - Sable Black
03,413 - Academy Gray
03,239 - Medium Montana Blue
03,133 - Light Montana Blue
02,856 - Dark Adriatic Blue
02,497 - Mocha
01,107 - Dark Montana Blue
0,0506 - Mary Kay Pink (Mountain Laurel)

Total made = 87,860
THANKYOU S A N D Y!!!
:worship: :worship: :worship: :worship: :worship: :worship: :worship: :worship: :worship: :worship:

I tried toPM you to tell you it wasa "UP" for you, but it just will not work for me (PMs) any idea way??

"S"

I tried to PM you to tell you it wasa "UP" for you, but it just will not work for me (PMs) any idea way??Read this Thread (http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=3666) <---(Click link).

OOOooo

It doesn't tell how long we are a NEW MEMBER for, as in when that status is or will be lifted.
I guess you can tell I am not shy. I only wanted to let him know the info he wanted was up there for him. Thanks for showing me the reason. I was banging my head in the wall allready.

S A N F O R D
Oops,

S A N D Y

Just keep doing what you're doing and trust Sal's judgement on this. :)