: SHIFTER: Dissecting, and fixing the CTS-V's shifter...



Tom400CFI
08-23-13, 01:22 PM
I have finally gotten to the shifter in my wife's car. 110k miles...shifts like SH!T. 1st and reverse are ridiculous, the rest are terrible and the slop is stupid. I have read many-a-thread, prior to my dissection of our shifter, and the solutions that are floating around the 'net are partial ones (add bushings here, replace bushings there) and they're also fairly expensive, IMO. Ultimately, I don't feel that any of the solutions by themselves fix all of the problems and all of them combined don't either. Plus I didn't find a thread (on this forum) that combines all the fixes in one thread.

The problem: At best; slop in the shifter, vague shift pattern and feel. At worst; inability to get the car into gear(s), as in my case.
The goal; to have the shifter feel and behave like "a brick sh!t house"...like one that mounts directly into the transmission, such as in an F-body, or an older Mustang (T-5 or T45 Transmission). Also a goal of mine is to have adjustable shift stops, as you can have in the F-body cars, which reduces the chance of breakage to the shift forks, and wear on the shift linkage.

I feel that there are two distinct and very different solutions for the problem defined above;
1. Improve the shifter assembly as much as possible to eliminate slop, add a "gate" and adjustable shift stops (last two parts are optional). This is the road that I'm going down b/c the car is my wife's car. If the car was mine (I drove it), I'd do the following...
2. Eliminate the entire shifter assy except the shift lever and base. Extend the internal shift rail out the back of the trans. Hook shifter directly to the internal rail, through a precision U-joint. This is the BEST solution by far. It connects your hand to the internal shift rail (the part that we're ultimately trying to manipulate) through two parts; the shift lever, and a U-joint. In the picture below, I'm pointing to the rear support for the internal shift rail. There is a simple steel freeze plug in the end. Look at the proximity of that rail compared to the shifter hole in the floor; it's nearly perfect for linking to the shifter!
http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w165/Stormer861/photobucket-11030-1377029768435_zpse88b63b5.jpg (http://s176.photobucket.com/user/Stormer861/media/photobucket-11030-1377029768435_zpse88b63b5.jpg.html)




Since I'm making the best of the stock "Rube Goldberg" shifter, I'll cover that, starting at the rear and moving forward. Use the following picture as a reference, as it shows the entire shifter assy.
http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w165/Stormer861/photobucket-9177-1377029792462_zps27724c08.jpg (http://s176.photobucket.com/user/Stormer861/media/photobucket-9177-1377029792462_zps27724c08.jpg.html)

Starting at the rear, is the SHIFT LEVER.
Options are aftermarket shifters which are $$$ and also shorten the throw. Many like the short throw. I used to. The problem is that they take away leverage, which makes shifting FAST hard to to. It also increases missed shifts, in a competitive situation (the drag-track, primarily). At any rate, I can not see what is fundamentally wrong with the stock shifter, other than the giant rubber "blob" that dampens the upper rod. I pulled the upper rod off,

....cut the damper portion off the rod,
http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w165/Stormer861/2013-08-22_11-07-06_333_zps965285e9.jpg (http://s176.photobucket.com/user/Stormer861/media/2013-08-22_11-07-06_333_zps965285e9.jpg.html)

....and welded the upper rod back onto the lower rod. Anyone doing this mod could at this point, make a "short shifter" by either cutting out extra rod and physically making the shift lever shorter, or by cutting and adding some length under the pivot. Either way has a similar effect and it boil down to a personal decision as to what you're looking for (physically shortened shift lever, or shorter throws). I wanted the tallest shift lever I could have, and the longest throws, so I kept it stock height/length.
http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w165/Stormer861/2013-08-22_16-09-34_870_zps5ad13848.jpg (http://s176.photobucket.com/user/Stormer861/media/2013-08-22_16-09-34_870_zps5ad13848.jpg.html)


Moving "forward", there are the bushings at the bottom of the shift lever. PISSNUOFF has those bushings.

Next moving forward, and just ahead of the shifter pivot are the bushings that support the shifter vertically. My solution is to eliminate them, the bracket that connects it to the shifter base (the floor pan), and fabricate a vertical support for the shifter connecting the bottom rear of trans, to the shifter base. Pics of my solution to follow. Why is this my recommendation? The transmission/engine assembly moves around in the car -as does any engine/trans in any car, due to chassis flex and mostly, rubber engine and trans mounts. Therefore, you don't "rigidly mount" anything from the engine/trans to the body. Yet that is exactly what GM did with the shifter! They mounted the two forward rods to the trans body (fine), but then the vertical height of the shifter is defined by the shifter base being bolted to the body of the car! Retarded. As the engine/trans moves around, the relationship between the trans and body changes, and that will (somewhat) change how the shifter works/feels, and even moves on it's own when in a gear. Eliminate that and don't use the bracket/bushings that bolt to the underside of the shifter "boot" assy (aka, the body of the car) at all.

Next, moving forward are the shifter bushings that affix the shifter assy to the rear of the trans. My thumb is pointing at them in the reference pic. Here the "Home Depot bushings" work fantastic. Very snug fit.

Again, moving forward are the plastic bushings where the shift rod connects with the "U-joint". Again, PISSNUOFF has a nice bronze bushing solution that is superior to the stock plastic one.

Next, is the steel pin that provides lateral movement in the "U-joint" -my pointer finger is pointing at what I'm calling the "U-joint". It is a loose fit and allows slop radially (as in side to side motion at the shifter). Cadzilla found a solution in simply welding this joint. I don't prefer this solution as there needs to be some side to side compliance here and welding forces all the side motion to be absorbed in the bending of the shift rod, and causes side loading of what I call the "upper shift rail" going into the trans. My solution was to use a 1/4" roll pin. The hole is .238" -smaller than 1/4". I cut the split/groove in the roll pin wider w/a Dremel tool (a cut-off wheel would work too), and that allowed the roll pin to compress enough to fit. it is TIGHT, there is absolutely no slop now, and the joint still has the ability to provide lateral movement. I think that it is a fair solution, that will last a long time.
http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w165/Stormer861/2013-08-22_18-26-47_536_zps6411ed3a.jpg (http://s176.photobucket.com/user/Stormer861/media/2013-08-22_18-26-47_536_zps6411ed3a.jpg.html)

http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w165/Stormer861/2013-08-22_18-33-35_118_zpsb1b1bd44.jpg (http://s176.photobucket.com/user/Stormer861/media/2013-08-22_18-33-35_118_zpsb1b1bd44.jpg.html)



All of the above will provide much sharper shifting than stock. It will eliminate the "fighting" between the shifter mounts on the trans and where it bolted to the floor pan. It is a huge improvement. All slop will be removed from the linkage...but will all slop be eliminated from the driver's perspective? Will the shifter feel like a Pro5.0 shifter in a T56 Camaro? No, it will not. It will still have some lateral movement when in a gear due to compliance (flex) in the shifter frame, rod, and tolerances inside the transmission itself. How can we mitigate this and make the shifter feel like it's a "Brick sh!t house"? This is where the shift gate is required, and the adjustable shift stops. Since our shifter is remotely mounted, there will be flex in the assy no matter what. To mitigate this, we can build a shift gate that makes it so the shifter physically can not move side to side when it's in a gear. We're doing this AT the shifter, so any flex in the linkage is taken out of the equation, from the driver's perspective -shifter doesn't move, so it "feels" stronger. Pics to follow.

OneFast V
08-23-13, 02:21 PM
what length of roll pin did you use?

repenttokyo
08-23-13, 02:29 PM
I installed PISNUOFF's short shifter years ago, along with poly bushings, and it immediately fixed my shifting problem. It also wasn't expensive at all...I don't agree with you that aftermarket short shifters like his are expensive. I track the car, and I have no problems with missing shifts or being unable to shift quickly with his shifter.

lollygagger8
08-23-13, 03:37 PM
PISINUOFF's shifter already fixes this problem.

Tom400CFI
08-23-13, 04:50 PM
Well then, as you were, guys...but if you really think that PISSNUOFF's bushings make the CTS-V's shifter feel like a quality shifter in a F-body...you are way off the mark. Those bushings are a crucial part of the process -I'm not discounting them or PISSNOFF's contribution. I'm also not even attempting to imply that they don't make a huge improvement; I know that they will. What I'm saying is that to meet the goal that I outlined above, you need those parts.... and more. And you do. I can stop posting, if you'd like. Or I can continue to document what *I* am doing to meet the goals that I have for the shifter -the feeling and features of a Pro 5.0, in a F-body.




what length of roll pin did you use?The one I used is 1", I believe. It is flush with the U-joint housing at both ends.

repenttokyo
08-23-13, 04:58 PM
I haven't driven an F-body, but I do road test cars for a living, and I really, really like my PISNUOFF shifter for track work and street. It compares favorably to the Miata I am currently driving - not as precise, of course, because few can match Mazda's shifter feel - but it's infinitely better than stock.

I think the reason you are getting the responses that you are is because you are identifying a 'problem' that was dealt with many years ago by the V community. How many CTS-V short shifters have you personally tested out? Do you have experience with the PISNUOFF unit, or with any other brands for the CTS-V?

A lot of your problems getting the car into gear may also be clutch related, as the fluid needs to be periodically swapped out and bled to avoid not being able to get the car into gear. All problems I have successfully dealt with in my own CTS-V.

OneFast V
08-23-13, 05:04 PM
I can tell you with a UUC shifter, UUC shifter bushings, The Bronze shifter cup in the transmission, PISNUOFF's bushings and home depot bushing I still have significant slop. I'm hoping the roll pin will help with this.

kyle242gt
08-23-13, 05:06 PM
I think the reason you are getting the responses that you are is because you are identifying a 'problem' that was dealt with many years ago by the V community.

Well then, as you were, guys... I can stop posting, if you'd like. Or I can continue to document what *I* am doingPlease keep it going. The short shifter and fresh bushings in the shifter may really be all it takes (what do your shifter bottom bushings look like, btw?); but I don't see anything wrong with new users digging in. Maybe you're reinventing the wheel, but maybe you're the guy with the stroke of genius that becomes SOP in the future.


It compares favorably to the Miata I am currently driving
Glowing praise right there. I may pull my shifter out and give it the shorten/lengthen treatement based on this alone. From reading everything I can find on the shifter, I got the sense that the only fix was there was no fix, and if you drop the trans and throw everything you can at it, the best to hope for is mediocre.

repenttokyo
08-23-13, 05:19 PM
Glowing praise right there. I may pull my shifter out and give it the shorten/lengthen treatement based on this alone. From reading everything I can find on the shifter, I got the sense that the only fix was there was no fix, and if you drop the trans and throw everything you can at it, the best to hope for is mediocre.

Moving to the PISNUOFF shifter was night and day for me compared to stock. It's incredible how much tighter the setup is. Like I said, it's missing the precision of a Miata, but going back and forth between the cars doesn't have my cursing the CTS-V like I was before I installed it.

FuzzyLogic
08-23-13, 06:03 PM
I can tell you with a UUC shifter, UUC shifter bushings, The Bronze shifter cup in the transmission, PISNUOFF's bushings and home depot bushing I still have significant slop. I'm hoping the roll pin will help with this.

Probably because you failed to properly torque the plate that connects to the car.

Becker
08-23-13, 06:53 PM
I have a shifter from Brian and upgraded bushings and I have minimal slop. It's very tight. I agree my ws6 was better with a pro 5.0 but my caddy is better than my ws6 on other levels.

OneFast V
08-23-13, 08:25 PM
Probably because you failed to properly torque the plate that connects to the car.

I've looked at the slop with everything apart and the plate connecting it to the car is not moving or causing slop.

kyle242gt
08-23-13, 09:00 PM
I've looked at the slop with everything apart and the plate connecting it to the car is not moving or causing slop.bearing in mind I'm a noob with a week's worth of ownership, but I can't imagine the tunnel plate's bolts having anything to do with it.

But back to OP - I wholeheartedly endorse dissecting and fixing this Goldbergian mess. Preferably without me having to learn to weld AL.

FuzzyLogic
08-23-13, 10:21 PM
I've looked at the slop with everything apart and the plate connecting it to the car is not moving or causing slop.

You haven't performed the Anti-Venom mod, have you?


bearing in mind I'm a noob with a week's worth of ownership, but I can't imagine the tunnel plate's bolts having anything to do with it.

If the side rails mounts were solid instead of rubber, you'd be (mostly) right.

AAIIIC
08-23-13, 10:46 PM
Well then, as you were, guys...but if you really think that PISSNUOFF's bushings make the CTS-V's shifter feel like a quality shifter in a F-body...you are way off the mark. Those bushings are a crucial part of the process -I'm not discounting them or PISSNOFF's contribution. I'm also not even attempting to imply that they don't make a huge improvement; I know that they will. What I'm saying is that to meet the goal that I outlined above, you need those parts.... and more. And you do. I can stop posting, if you'd like. Or I can continue to document what *I* am doing to meet the goals that I have for the shifter -the feeling and features of a Pro 5.0, in a F-body.
I'm interested to see what you come up with as you dig into it. I haven't done all the tricks that others have done - thus far I just have a UUC shifter and bushings. I don't have much slop at all, but the shifter is very notchy and just doesn't feel that great. The aftermarket shifters in my other cars (old Hurst shifter I had on my Mustang's original T5, the Pro-5.0 shifter (I think) that is on the TKO in it now, and the short shifter on the STI 6MT in my Subaru) all feel just as positive as the V's shifter yet don't feel like I'm steering the thing through gravel. :p

PISNUOFF
08-24-13, 09:09 AM
Good job tearing into the problem and dissecting it. We need more people around this community that do this. Right now there are only about 4-5 of us that are willing. Don't get discouraged, you've been a member since 2009 so you should know how we are around here. Lol. Keep up the good work.

If you haven't, read through this and maybe get some ideas that could help you.

http://ls1tech.com/forums/cadillac-cts-v/1517800-b-m-shifter.html

Btw - I am working on developing my own shifter from the ground up that will blow away the stock piece of crap.

- Brian

OneFast V
08-24-13, 12:15 PM
You haven't performed the Anti-Venom mod, have you?[COLOR="Silver"]i have not done the anti venom mod. I have had somebody mode the shifter in the car while I wath underneath for slop and it is defiantly at the transmission side of the linkage.

Tom400CFI
08-26-13, 12:04 PM
Moving to the PISNUOFF shifter was night and day for me compared to stock. It's incredible how much tighter the setup is. Like I said, it's missing the precision of a Miata...Bingo. You have just made the very point, that I'm trying to in my original post with the "goal".

I never said that PISSNUOFF's parts didn't dramatically improve the shifter. In fact, what I DID say is that:
"PISSNUOFF has a nice bronze bushing solution that is superior to the stock plastic one" and...
"(PISSNUOFF's)bushings are a crucial part of the process -I'm not discounting them or PISSNOFF's contribution."

I totally "get" that PISSNUOFF's contribution is incredible, and I advocate using his parts -for a huge improvement OVER STOCK. Problem with that is..."stock" ain't setting the bar very high. That is some low hanging fruit. You want the "precision of a Miata? It's available in the V...you simply have to go further, and that is what I'm attempting to do, in one aspect (what I'm doing) and another aspect; what I recommended above by completely eliminating the shift linkage altogether. THAT is the best solution.

Anyway, as I stated above, There never really was an acceptable solution for the "U-joint" pin. Cadzilla did a great thing and "moved the rock forward", IMO, by welding it, but (again) that forces all lateral movement to be absorbed by bending the shift rod and massively side-loading the rod running into the trans. I felt that a roll-pin would be a big improvement; it still allows the joint to pivot on the horizontal axis, but being made of spring steel, it provides constant preload and doesn't allow slop in that part of the shifting linkage. So I posted about it.

I think the reason why YOU keep giving me responses that you are, is that you spent some money, saw a major improvement, and thought that is the "end all" solution. BUT as others have posted here, some still have issues, and NONE have a shifter that feels like a "brick sh!t house". -Like the gold standard Pro 5.0 in an F-bod or Mustang. I believe that is achievable and that is what I'm going for. Read on if you're interested....if you're not, ya don't have to read this thread! :)

----------


I've looked at the slop with everything apart and the plate connecting it to the car is not moving or causing slop.Where are you seeing your slop? Have you looked at the "U-joint" pin?

OneFast V
08-26-13, 12:56 PM
Where are you seeing your slop? Have you looked at the "U-joint" pin?

Pretty sure this is exactly where my slop is.

Tom400CFI
08-26-13, 03:23 PM
Might try the roll pin then. Or, if you want to get fancy, get a precision U-joint and weld it to the trans shaft and shift rod.

On another note, now that I have the "U-joint" super tight, I have realized that there is also side-to-side play between the aluminum housing that houses the "mock shifter" and the solid steel trans shift rod where it enders the trans. I am not going to be able to remove that play, practically, so it will have to stay. How much does this affect shifting? I don't know. Will post more if I am able to quantify that better.

Tom400CFI
09-01-13, 11:39 PM
Finally had a little time to move forward on this. I didn't post a pic earlier of the "Home Depot" bushings, so nothing new here, but here is a pic of mine, installed...
http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w165/Stormer861/photobucket-13234-1377533701906_zps25559471.jpg (http://s176.photobucket.com/user/Stormer861/media/photobucket-13234-1377533701906_zps25559471.jpg.html)

I basically have the shifter reinstalled in the car at this point. What I needed to do to finish that was fabricate the vertical supports for the shifter base. I simply used two pieces of 3/8" mild steel rod and made them fit around the rubber coupler, and connect the base of the shifter to the upper trans mount bolts. They aren't all that easy to see, but can see them in these pictures....
http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w165/Stormer861/photobucket-1910-1378089162252_zps04c6fe0f.jpg (http://s176.photobucket.com/user/Stormer861/media/photobucket-1910-1378089162252_zps04c6fe0f.jpg.html)

http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w165/Stormer861/photobucket-1434-1378092330340_zps938c2d1e.jpg (http://s176.photobucket.com/user/Stormer861/media/photobucket-1434-1378092330340_zps938c2d1e.jpg.html)

I may need to take another pic tomorrow. I'm surprised how hard it is to see the struts in these pics. :(

These vertical support struts accomplish a few things, IMO
1. Eliminate bushings -bushings that can fail, compress, and allow movement
2. Eliminate the connection of the shifter (a part that moves w/the engine/trans) and the floor pan.
3. Hopefully eliminate some NVH (not that there was much before), by not having any connection w/the floor pan
4. Massivly stiffen the shifter base, relative to the trans, which is what the shifter needs to be stiff with. The shifter assy is now 100%, part of the trans assy, as it should be.

----------

So how is it? I haven't driven the car yet, but just shifting it in the garage, the shifter feels "10 times better" than it ever did before. It feels precise, "mechanical", solid...It feels pretty damn good, and way, WAY better than it was, that is for sure. Finding reverse is like a revelation, compared to the foggy quagmire it was before; over to the right "click" and forward, "click" and you're in reverse. Nice.

There is still some lateral play when IN, any given gear. About 1/4" at the shift knob. This slop can be traced to the trans; it's inside the trans, or at least beyond the "U-joint". Also, once you reach the end of that play, if you force the lever further, there is "give" due to the flex of the metal structure that is the shifter base; the shift rod itself, the two rods that run forward to the trans...none of that is especially rigid. I expected this and the relatively small amount of play + the flex is precisely why you need to gate the actual shift lever in this car, in order to get a rock solid feel. (OR, go directly to the internal shift rail as I suggested earlier, but am not doing). That gated shifter is next on the list and of course, I will post pictures, etc.

I am happy with the improvements thus far, and am about where I expected that I would be at this point. The car would be a fantastic improvement to drive already, and more than "good enough" for most (including my wife who is the primary driver), but again, I'm going for the "brick shit house" feel that is found in a good shifter going directly into a T5 or T56 trans. Will keep updating.

VincentT
09-02-13, 01:25 PM
Those support struts seem like an excellent idea. From my experience with the shifter, they are exactly what it needs. Bushings and everything go a long way to shoring up the linkage, but those supports actually address an inherent flaw in the design of the shifter. Hopefully it works well. I will likely do something similar now that I've seen this.

ctsv247
09-02-13, 06:53 PM
This makes all the sense in the world but it is hard to see the struts. More pics please......

VincentT
09-02-13, 07:12 PM
141306

I do believe these are the supports.

Tom400CFI
09-02-13, 07:15 PM
^That is correct. Those are indeed my add-on struts. :)


Those support struts seem like an excellent idea. From my experience with the shifter, they are exactly what it needs. Bushings and everything go a long way to shoring up the linkage, but those supports actually address an inherent flaw in the design of the shifter. Hopefully it works well. I will likely do something similar now that I've seen this.THose were my thoughts exactly, when I started tearing into the shifter! 1/2 of it is supported by the trans (like it should be) the other 1/2, byt the floor pan. THey make it work by suspending it all in Jell-o. :D

ctsv247
09-02-13, 07:31 PM
Where are the supports attached to the trans at the bottom and I'll assume you are abandoning the supports to the floor pan. Thanks!

Tom400CFI
09-02-13, 07:36 PM
I took a few more pics. Re-takes on the struts, b'c the pics above are not very good, and then some pics of the progress...


http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w165/Stormer861/bfc9cae3-2b26-44c5-993d-6c3b2e9194a7_zpsbe17cefa.jpg (http://s176.photobucket.com/user/Stormer861/media/bfc9cae3-2b26-44c5-993d-6c3b2e9194a7_zpsbe17cefa.jpg.html)

http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w165/Stormer861/photobucket-10001-1378164935060_zps5f93bca8.jpg (http://s176.photobucket.com/user/Stormer861/media/photobucket-10001-1378164935060_zps5f93bca8.jpg.html)

http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w165/Stormer861/photobucket-2901-1378165006033_zpsb363e060.jpg (http://s176.photobucket.com/user/Stormer861/media/photobucket-2901-1378165006033_zpsb363e060.jpg.html)




I welded a pin to the bottom of the shift shaft. This will function as a guide pin for the shift gate. I'm not proud of the weld. :/

http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w165/Stormer861/photobucket-1478-1378165242258_zps3a6ce202.jpg (http://s176.photobucket.com/user/Stormer861/media/photobucket-1478-1378165242258_zps3a6ce202.jpg.html)


Here, I am beginning to build the supports for the shift gate.

http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w165/Stormer861/photobucket-6746-1378165309922_zps13a07f51.jpg (http://s176.photobucket.com/user/Stormer861/media/photobucket-6746-1378165309922_zps13a07f51.jpg.html)


And here I have added lateral rods that the piece of plate will be mounted to, with the gate/shift pattern cut into it.

http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w165/Stormer861/photobucket-4702-1378165463142_zps5072d183.jpg (http://s176.photobucket.com/user/Stormer861/media/photobucket-4702-1378165463142_zps5072d183.jpg.html)

ctsv247
09-02-13, 08:14 PM
Thanks for taking more pics! Much better!

Simple, cheap, affective! Nice work!!!

FuzzyLogic
09-02-13, 10:28 PM
Frankly, I don't see how those struts will help at all. The shifter plate already doesn't move relative to the transmission tunnel.

Tom400CFI
09-02-13, 10:43 PM
What part is the "shifter plate"? If you are talking about the shifter base (where the shift elver pivots) it does move. Absolutely. Maybe you're talking about a different part?

I feel that the braces will help in three ways;
1. Noise. By not bolting the shifter base to what is basically the floor pan, and allowing the shifter to be part of the transmission (which it wholly should be), then less drivetrain noise should be transmitted into the floor/car.
2. Relative movement; if the shifter base is attached to the floor AND the trans....and the trans moves around (which it does)
3. Bushings taking a dump. What can I say? The stock bushings blow, and allow tons of movement etc. People post here that they replace 'em and claim it makes an improvement. BUT, no bushing last forever, even the aftermarket ones. So...get rid of them.

I'm not going to say that the strut rods are going to be the "end all" improvement....by themselves, I feel they will do only a little (probably about the same as the bushings that support the shifter vertically, stock), but this system won't wear out. What I do feel is important is that the struts were necessary (in conjunction with the rest of my changes) to achieve my goal; feel like a Pro 5.0 in an F-body.

VincentT
09-02-13, 11:07 PM
That's the point though. The plate doesn't move in relation to the tunnel, but it does move in relation to the transmission. Since the stock design attached the plate to the body and the other end of the linkage to the transmission, there had to be inherent play in the entire system so something wouldn't break later in the vehicle's lifespan from the driveline flexing under load. The supports allow the shifter to float freely relative to the body, and instead be mounted to the transmission. This is more in keeping with a traditional shifter and allows the linkage to be made much stronger and stiffer without sacrificing durability. The main change that will happen (other than better shifting) is that, from the perspective of the driver, the shifter will move more when the driveline is under load.

Tom400CFI
09-02-13, 11:32 PM
^Bingo^! This guy "gets it". :)

Here is another pic of the shifter assy, with the braces, and the mounts for the gate...

http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w165/Stormer861/photobucket-1796-1378166237602_zps727145d7.jpg (http://s176.photobucket.com/user/Stormer861/media/photobucket-1796-1378166237602_zps727145d7.jpg.html)



I struggled to come up with a good way to "find" the location/shape of the pin and it's movement on the shift lever. I tried using a piece of cardboard, poking holes in it w/the pin with the shifter in each gear...but the holes weren't very accurate, and then the cardboard tore, so. :/
I finally ended up using a simple piece of paper, backlighting and then when in any given gear, the precise location of the pin was obvious. I marked it w/a sharpie. Here is what it looked like. I was suprised that the pattern is slightly diagonal...
http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w165/Stormer861/photobucket-7768-1378166308733_zpsfb17571b.jpg (http://s176.photobucket.com/user/Stormer861/media/photobucket-7768-1378166308733_zpsfb17571b.jpg.html)

Now I need to transcribe those points onto my piece of steel, then make my cuts and finish it off with a die grinder.

carlson_mn
09-03-13, 12:17 AM
Nice work... personally I always thought a little bit of play in the mechanism helps when shifting quickly, kind of acting like a 'funnel' when getting into the next gear quickly. I wonder if making that shifter gate is going to make it more difficult getting into gears quickly? Let us know - you can always cut it out if it bothers you. Just don't forget to occasionally spend some quality time driving the car too!

FuzzyLogic
09-03-13, 12:39 AM
What part is the "shifter plate"? If you are talking about the shifter base (where the shift elver pivots) it does move. Absolutely. Maybe you're talking about a different part?

The riveted plate where the remote linkage meets the car. Mine doesn't move relative to the transmission. At all. Can the transmission twist relative to the body of the car? I'm sure it does, slightly, since it's bolted to the motor, but it's hard to know how much without putting a GoPro in a very awkward spot.

There's more to this problem than just the linkage. Another chunk of this problem can be attributed to the stock motor mounts, and the rest to the original T56 itself. The keyway in the shift forks (which can bend) was probably one of the dumber things Tremec did with that design. A lot of people refer to the TR6060 as the stronger T56, but in reality, there was a huge focus on reducing shift effort there.

Tom400CFI
09-03-13, 02:41 AM
The riveted plate where the remote linkage meets the car. Mine doesn't move relative to the transmission. At all. Can the transmission twist relative to the body of the car? I'm sure it does, slightly, since it's bolted to the motor, but it's hard to know how much without putting a GoPro in a very awkward spot. Put a Go Pro under there. You'll be very surprised, I'll bet. All of the drivetrain moves around all the time that the car is moving. The diff flops all over the place, the drive shaft wobbles in the carrier bearing, the engine/trans assy also move...a lot. During a WOT 1st gear event, the engine/trans assy is sending about 1200 lb-ft of torque down the drive shaft. That amount of torque is going to produce a substantial reaction (movement of the assy), and of course, it does.




There's more to this problem than just the linkage. Another chunk of this problem can be attributed to the stock motor mounts, and the rest to the original T56 itself. The keyway in the shift forks (which can bend) was probably one of the dumber things Tremec did with that design. A lot of people refer to the TR6060 as the stronger T56, but in reality, there was a huge focus on reducing shift effort there.I completely agree with your first sentence...which is why you'll notice that this thread isn't limited to shifter struts. I'm addressing everything from the knob to the trans.
Motor mounts typically have nothing to do with shifting issues....unless of course, your shifter is bolted to both the body and the transmission at the same time. Another reason to get the shifter away from the floor pan.

FYI, ther TR6060 IS way stronger than the T56...and it does shift better too. But what has that got to do w/the topic at hand? My complaint isn't about the resistance imparted by the synchros, on my shifting action. My complaints are:
*the car wouldn't go into 1st 1/2 the time
*the Car wouldn't go into reverse 1/2 the time
*When in any given gear, you could "mock shift" through a typical 4-speed "H-pattern" just in the slop that existed when IN, any given gear.
*the feel provided by any shifting event was unrewarding, and frankly, goofy feeling. "Sporty feeling" was not there at all.
^That sucks!, and has nothing to do w/the T56 in particular. My old '93 T56 in my Trans Am (years ago) shifted 100x better than this Caddy ever has. Why? B/c the shifter was 100% part of the transmission and it engaged the internal shift rail, directly.

An interesting note; my C4 Corvette has a manual trans that also, (similar to the Caddy) has a remote mounted shifter off the tail end of the trans. Fortunately, for the driving experience in the Corvette, they mounted the shifter entirely on the tail of the trans so the shifter/trans are one unit. They did not try to tie the driveline to the floor pan in the Corvette. Also note that in this trans (you can see in the cut-away) that the shifter actuates the internal shift rail directly through a U-joint...just like I suggested in my first post. Although (due to a cheap linkage/u-joint) the Corvette still has a some what sloppy shifter (compared to the goal in this thread), it is nothing, and I mean NOTHING like the shifter in the Cadillac.
http://www.zfdoc.com/Image6.gif

ctsv247
09-03-13, 09:16 AM
If that's you and you're a machinist, you should just design an entirely new shifter base and offer it for resale! It looks like the shifter just rivets into the existing base so could swapping the shifter over be done rather easily? I would bet you could sell several hundred of these over the next few years.....

just sayin.....I'd buy one.

Tom400CFI
09-03-13, 10:54 AM
Ha ha...no, that is not me, and I'm not a machinist (though I wish I had more tools to do that kind of work! The pic is Bill Bordeau, AKA "ZFDoc". He is the "go-to guy" for all Corvette ZF-6 transmission issues. I used that pic b/c it shows clearly, a proper remote mounted shifter, and the cutaway shows how it directly manipulates the internal rail, compared to how the Caddy basically remotely manipulates what is basically a shifter, that then manipulates the internal rail.


Nice work... personally I always thought a little bit of play in the mechanism helps when shifting quickly, kind of acting like a 'funnel' when getting into the next gear quickly. I wonder if making that shifter gate is going to make it more difficult getting into gears quickly? Let us know - you can always cut it out if it bothers you. Just don't forget to occasionally spend some quality time driving the car too!
I agree and have thought about tapering the enterance to each gear to aid smooth/fast shifting. It's just something that I'll have to play with and see what works best. Never done it before.

AAIIIC
09-03-13, 11:42 AM
Here is another pic of the shifter assy, with the braces, and the mounts for the gate...

http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w165/Stormer861/photobucket-1796-1378166237602_zps727145d7.jpg
Are you sure that's going to clear the driveshaft? There's not a whole lot of vertical clearance between the bottom of the shift lever and the top of the driveshaft.

I like the idea of the support struts, but I think the gate is unnecessary and is probably going to make the shifter feel worse.

FuzzyLogic
09-03-13, 11:54 AM
Honestly, the only thing that's going to get me really excited about modifying the shifter on the CTS-V is if someone takes a longer tailshaft housing from a conventional T56 or TR6060 and does what GM should've done in the first place.

http://ls1tech.com/forums/attachments/manual-transmission/216104d1266377700-cts-t56-behinde-ls2-first-gen-bird-tremac_dims-968x638.jpg

http://faststreetcars.com/imgs/tr-6060-tailshaft-housing-swap.jpg

Of course, we'd need shorter driveshafts, but that's a good thing. Our driveshaft is ridiculously long and its critical speed correspondingly low.

Tom400CFI
09-03-13, 02:33 PM
Are you sure that's going to clear the driveshaft? There's not a whole lot of vertical clearance between the bottom of the shift lever and the top of the driveshaft.

I like the idea of the support struts, but I think the gate is unnecessary and is probably going to make the shifter feel worse.Yes, I'm sure. Did you see the pics of it in the car above??

The gate is unnecessary. It MAY make it worse. It may make it better. I can always cut it off if it doesn't work.

----------


Honestly, the only thing that's going to get me really excited about modifying the shifter on the CTS-V is if someone takes a longer tailshaft housing from a conventional T56 or TR6060 and does what GM should've done in the first place.O.K. Well thanks for your contribution. :suspect:

You DO realize that Camaro tail shaft still puts the shifter over 5" too far forward? In reality what "GM should've done" is mount the entire engine/trans about 4" back from where it is currently located. This would have improved weight distribution, shortened the drive shaft, allowed the use of the Camaro trans with a direct-to-rail type shifter. IDK why the engine is so far forward. But this type of day-dreaming is like saying "what I should have done is bought a different car".

ctsv247
09-03-13, 02:59 PM
So who's going to make the first set of offset motor mounts....
Yes, I'm sure. Did you see the pics of it in the car above??

The gate is unnecessary. It MAY make it worse. It may make it better. I can always cut it off if it doesn't work.

----------

O.K. Well thanks for your contribution. :suspect:

You DO realize that Camaro tail shaft still puts the shifter over 5" too far forward? In reality what "GM should've done" is mount the entire engine/trans about 4" back from where it is currently located. This would have improved weight distribution, shortened the drive shaft, allowed the use of the Camaro trans with a direct-to-rail type shifter. IDK why the engine is so far forward. But this type of day-dreaming is like saying "what I should have done is bought a different car".

PISNUOFF
09-03-13, 06:11 PM
^^^^and cut their tunnel to make it fit.

FuzzyLogic
09-03-13, 06:24 PM
^^^^and cut their tunnel to make it fit.

Exactly. The motor will barely move back an inch, let alone four.

VincentT
09-03-13, 09:44 PM
Exactly. The motor will barely move back an inch, let alone four.

Hence the remote shifter.

Tom400CFI
09-04-13, 12:22 AM
The motor is about 4-5" from the firewall. The bell housing appears to be the limiting factor there. Like I said above; different car. Anyway, we're getting way off topic here.

Worked on the gate today. I was really worried that it would be a complete and total waste of time; I thought what would happen is that I'd trace the marks, cut the gate out, and then when the shifter was bolted to the trans, the actual path wouldn't align with my gated path. But, trying to be as precise as possible, I moved forward. At this point, does anyone fail to see what the intended purpose of the gate is? In case some one missed it, the purpose of the gate is to provide a solid, "locked in" feel of the shift lever, when it is placed in any given gear. The feel is not obtainable w/the stock shifter design, due to tolerances in the trans itself, starting with the trans shifter/cap -the part that bolts on top of the trans.

SO....I laid my marked paper (from post #32) over my piece of steel, and used a center punch to mark the steel, through the paper.
http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w165/Stormer861/photobucket-6576-1378252393567_zps793011b7.jpg (http://s176.photobucket.com/user/Stormer861/media/photobucket-6576-1378252393567_zps793011b7.jpg.html)

Here is what the punch marks looked like:
http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w165/Stormer861/photobucket-2213-1378252450938_zps6ae89819.jpg (http://s176.photobucket.com/user/Stormer861/media/photobucket-2213-1378252450938_zps6ae89819.jpg.html)

I then drilled out each of the punch marks, then connected the dots, and started cutting the gate grooves with a cut-off wheel. I purposely cut them too narrow, so that I could fine tune them w/a die grinder and not introduce too much extra clearance.
http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w165/Stormer861/photobucket-2179-1378252471976_zps10276fba.jpg (http://s176.photobucket.com/user/Stormer861/media/photobucket-2179-1378252471976_zps10276fba.jpg.html)

After a little more cutting, and grinding...
http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w165/Stormer861/photobucket-4552-1378252505666_zpse1666297.jpg (http://s176.photobucket.com/user/Stormer861/media/photobucket-4552-1378252505666_zpse1666297.jpg.html)

Here it is ready for a test fit. Note that I've tapered the ends of each "peninsula" so as to aid in access to each gear when shifting. I may end up cutting the "peninsulas" back so that the guide pin is not in a gate groove until the shifter is fully into a gear...depending on how it feels in actual use. I placed the blue shop towel behind it for contrast...
http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w165/Stormer861/photobucket-12136-1378268098491_zpscd836080.jpg (http://s176.photobucket.com/user/Stormer861/media/photobucket-12136-1378268098491_zpscd836080.jpg.html)


Here are two pics of how it should look, installed.
http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w165/Stormer861/photobucket-1801-1378268156158_zpse4ea561d.jpg (http://s176.photobucket.com/user/Stormer861/media/photobucket-1801-1378268156158_zpse4ea561d.jpg.html)

http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w165/Stormer861/photobucket-2099-1378268134596_zpsde845363.jpg (http://s176.photobucket.com/user/Stormer861/media/photobucket-2099-1378268134596_zpsde845363.jpg.html)


I re-installed the shifter on the trans and had my son shift through the gears as I held the gate plate in place to see how badly my mapping turned out. In fact, it turned out pretty damn fantastic. I am stoked at how it appears it will work. I need to do a very small amount of finish grinding, then weld the gate plate on to the frame I made previously. Then, put it all together and go drive the thing. I'm pretty excited about it, at the moment. :)

PISNUOFF
09-04-13, 06:50 AM
Are you doing all of this with the stock shifter, stock motor mounts and trans mount?

kyle242gt
09-04-13, 11:28 AM
Great to see this moving forward so rapidly, for better or worse.

I think you're going to find the peninsulas need to be cut back and pointed.

Loving the fab work and materials - looks like something out of my shop. Who needs machine tools when you've got a die grinder and a sawzall! 141929

Tom400CFI
09-04-13, 04:16 PM
LOL! Love the sawzall character! :)


Are you doing all of this with the stock shifter, stock motor mounts and trans mount?
Good question! Absolutely not. I have Revshift motor mounts and Revshift trans insert. Stock motor mounts were so blown out that there was nothing but DIRT inside them. I changed them about a year ago. It should be noted however, that with my shifter being "free standing" now, i shouldn't matter what happens to the trans and motor mounts anymore. The motor could fall out on the ground, and the shifter will still be in the same orientation to the trans, and still shift the same way. :)

----------

Well....here it is. The finished assembly. NOTE that I did in fact, cut back the gates some, and also I did taper the end to help guide the guide pin into each gear. It sure doesn't LOOK like a nice, billet Pro 5.0, that is for sure...
http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w165/Stormer861/photobucket-1646-1378324279145_zps60aca252.jpg (http://s176.photobucket.com/user/Stormer861/media/photobucket-1646-1378324279145_zps60aca252.jpg.html)


Finished install...
http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w165/Stormer861/photobucket-11885-1378324320120_zps213e4e9e.jpg (http://s176.photobucket.com/user/Stormer861/media/photobucket-11885-1378324320120_zps213e4e9e.jpg.html)



And with teh rubber coupler in place to show the clearance....
http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w165/Stormer861/photobucket-13707-1378324355209_zps12a132f8.jpg (http://s176.photobucket.com/user/Stormer861/media/photobucket-13707-1378324355209_zps12a132f8.jpg.html)




SO: how is it. Am I allowed to swear here? HOLY FUK!! The thing feels like a brick SHIT HOUSE! The slots in the gate feel SO damn good as you slide the shifter into any gear....it feels like the mechanical device that it should! SOLID, TIGHT, STRONG (feeling). I freakin' love it. Haven't driven it yet, so this is just sitting in the garage, but all 6 gears have absolutely zero side-side play, and there is no "drag" or "catches" when moving the shifter through the gears.

I think the thing is freakin' fantastic. I can't believe how well the gate came out, and how well it does it's job. I'm thrilled. I just hope that it doesn't rattle. Will post a Video and on-the-road report when I get the car back on the ground. :)

VincentT
09-04-13, 06:42 PM
Well done, good sir. I bet that gate makes a big difference.

----------

I do wonder though about the durability of that gate, with it being metal on metal and all. It would probably only be an issue in the very long run.

FuzzyLogic
09-04-13, 07:25 PM
SO: how is it. Am I allowed to swear here? HOLY FUK!! The thing feels like a brick SHIT HOUSE! The slots in the gate feel SO damn good as you slide the shifter into any gear....it feels like the mechanical device that it should! SOLID, TIGHT, STRONG (feeling). I freakin' love it. Haven't driven it yet, so this is just sitting in the garage, but all 6 gears have absolutely zero side-side play, and there is no "drag" or "catches" when moving the shifter through the gears.

I think the thing is freakin' fantastic. I can't believe how well the gate came out, and how well it does it's job. I'm thrilled. I just hope that it doesn't rattle. Will post a Video and on-the-road report when I get the car back on the ground. :)

Be careful about impressions with the motor off. My shifter feels amazing under those conditions too.

Tom400CFI
09-04-13, 10:28 PM
The shifter gate (which is what controls side to side play when in a gear) doesn't care if the engine is running or not.

As I said, I'll report back when I drive it. Probably tomorrow, but still need to change the front shocks.

PISNUOFF
09-05-13, 06:59 AM
I'm waiting to see how much noise comes through there, you removed every bit of isolation.

Tom400CFI
09-05-13, 09:52 AM
I'm waiting to see how much noise comes through there, you removed every bit of isolation.Kind of. The forward "Home Depot" bushings, I coated them and the steel sleeve with silicone before installing, so there should be a little damping there....but with the vertical struts bolted directly to the trans, any damping from the drive train into the shifter base is eliminated. HOWEVER, the shifter is no longer bolted to the floor pan, so drive drain buzz/hum, and drive shaft vibes won't be transmitted into the car at all. The retention of the stock shift lever w/it's plastic ball/pivot I believe will help with NVH (compared to an aftermarket steel unit), but...we'll see. If it does make noise, I can easily add rubber to the bottom of the strut mounts, the way that I designed them. I'll try to get tthe thing done today so I can report back.

PISNUOFF
09-05-13, 04:42 PM
I believe most of it comes directly through the shifter stalk. That's why the rubber isolation is between the upper and lower portions. You welded the upper directly to the lower, it'll be interesting to see if all the theories are true.

Tom400CFI
09-05-13, 05:08 PM
I agree. I should have the car running tonight. Just finished replacing the shocks...now the rear diff bushing, then put the DS in and exhaust on and pet 'er back on the ground....
Back to work! :)

Tom400CFI
09-06-13, 12:34 AM
I drove it. Got the new shocks in, took my son to tutoring in SLC, then swapped the rear diff bushing, then put the car back together. Battery was dead so put it on charge and went for a Mtn bike ride with my wife when she got home from work. After the ride, took the car out.

VERDICT: The goal has been met. As a reminder, the goal:
The goal; to have the shifter feel and behave like "a brick sh!t house"...like one that mounts directly into the transmission, such as in an F-body, or an older Mustang (T-5 or T45 Transmission).
The shifter feels incredible. It feels like a machine...like a brick shit house. It feels just like the hurst shifter in my friend's '88 5.0. That was my goal that I set in post #1, and I've met that goal handily, I feel.
Unfortunately, part of my goal was not, "no noise". As PISSNUOFF said, noise does come up through the shifter stalk and the noise has increased quite a lot. How much? If the stereo is on, you can't hear it. If the car had an aftermarket exhaust, you wouldn't notice it or be bothered by it, but in a stock car it is definitely noticeable. It doesn't rattle or vibrate, which I'm pretty happy about, but it does transmit bearing and gear noise from the transmission, right up the shift stalk. My feeling about the thing as a whole are mixed. When I'm shifting it, I think, "This is IT!" It's so awesome feeling -it feels like...precision. Like a well engineered device. But when I'm cruising in 6th gear (the noisiest of them all, I think, "This isn't going to work. I need to address the noise." If it were MY car, I'd leave it and put an aftermarket exhaust on it. But it's my wife's car and I know that she won't like it.

WHAT NEXT?
*I can bush the struts...but will that matter with the "Home Depot" bushings? IDK. I haven't seen any feedback about noise on this forum, after installing the HD bushings. Any input on that?
*I can try to bush the shift stalk similar to how it was two pieces originally, but use some stiffer rubber?
* I can put it all back to stock, since I have all the OEM parts still. But I do NOT want to do that; it sucked so bad before. For right now, I'm just going to think about options for a little bit. It sure does feel good though. I'll have to make a vid tomorrow. I just didn't have enough time tonight.

EDIT: When I put the drive shaft in, there was about 1/2" clearance between the shaft, and the bottom of my gate and guide pin.

HAMSTAR
09-06-13, 07:55 AM
^ offer something up. I will buy it, as will others.

Great work.

kyle242gt
09-06-13, 11:54 AM
Be sure the shifter strut assembly isn't contacting the trans tunnel. Doubt that's the case, but easiest to fix.
I'd go with a two piece shifter. You can keep all the gate and solid mountings stuff.
Sleeving the gate pin would help a lot too, if you're getting vibrations from the gate/pin contact. Not sure what you could put in there and have it last though...

Great work!!

Tom400CFI
09-06-13, 11:56 AM
Kyle, Good ideas. The struts definiltey aren't hitting the tunnel...and there isn't any noise in the floor pan/shifter base area. ALL the noise is coming right out of the shift lever/stalk, as PISSNUOFF predicted. What's crazy is that when the crappy stock shift knob is on, it's way louder. When I pull the knob off, it's not nearly as noisy! That stock shift knob sucks. :( The sleeved gate pin is a good idea, but I also don't know what would last there either.

Hamstar, what do you mean by "offer something up"? Selling them? I don't think that I could sell it until I can figure out how to make it quiet. And, I'm not interested in selling, really....I wanted to post this to show what *I* believe is a good way to improve the feel of what we've got to work with. I'm may slap the stock rubber upper on today and see how that sounds.

Here is a pic of the clearance between the driveshaft, and the shift gate. MAN, those welds are not pretty!...
http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w165/Stormer861/photobucket-21927-1378482941783_zps1783c675.jpg (http://s176.photobucket.com/user/Stormer861/media/photobucket-21927-1378482941783_zps1783c675.jpg.html)

PISNUOFF
09-06-13, 01:53 PM
Try dynamat first.

lasstss
09-06-13, 02:49 PM
Im rarely on here anymore as the v is long gone. Its interesting to see where things have gone. I will blow my own horn.
I supplied the first shifter to UUC to make the first replacement. It needed all of the help it coiuld get. I also created the first urethane bushing kit for the crappy shifter including the front bushings. I ha s a shoulder bole in the shifter handle though.

Also made the first door lock lifts, radio knobs and gage pods in the ash tray. I was busy back in 2004. Nice to see everyone enjoying all of this stuff.

On the shifter, what I did was a band aid that made a micky mouse remote shifter better! Its became a better bad shifter. What was needed was a trans with a tailshaft that fit the car! But a bigger issue that that is the early differential but thats another story. Good luck all..

Marty

Tom400CFI
09-06-13, 03:37 PM
Try dynamat first.Seriously. That is what this thing needs.

So I cut my shift lever/stalk again, racked the rubber/goober part back onto the upper lever the slid that back down over the lower -basically putting it back to stock (just the shift lever portion. Result? That solved the noise issue completely. THe only remaining noises are driveline chuck or whip, is pretty noticeable when depressing the clutch quickly, and the shifter knob rattles -which it always has. So I believe that the two piece shift lever solves the noise issue. At what expense? Not too much. The quality of the shifting feel is still about the same. The accuracy, precision feeling to it is still there, and there is still no play or slop in the system. There IS, of course, compliance in the rubber in the shifter, so once it's in a gear, you can force the shift lever to bend or deflect some.

----------


It became a better bad shifter. Yep. That is what is going on here too, for the most part. The shifter is a total piece of crap. I've made it way better, but in principle, it still sucks. The goal (not my goal in this thread) is to manipulate the internal shift rail. The fewer number of parts and joints you have between your hand, and that internal shift rail, the better. The V probably has 20 pieces between your hand and that rail. It's a joke.

Tom400CFI
09-06-13, 06:24 PM
So now I've gone and busted into the shift KNOB. Not including the two pices of "leather", the shift KNOB, is made out of 5 pieces of junk!! I don't know what others think, but in MY mind a shift knob is one piece, w/a cover and maybe separate shift pattern. 5 pieces! Here are 4 of them (shift pattern didn't make it into the pic)
http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w165/Stormer861/photobucket-26250-1378502699964_zpsadf52a29.jpg (http://s176.photobucket.com/user/Stormer861/media/photobucket-26250-1378502699964_zpsadf52a29.jpg.html)


So, the shift knob rattles b/c the part in the middle there, is loose fitting inside the actual molded handle. It is hard plastic and of course the handle is hard plastic too, so the handle moves around like a "bobble head" on the center piece. I whipped up some epoxy and turned the whole thing into one solid unit. Put the leather back on and it's setting up now.

The Mythbusters proved that you CAN, polish a turd! So I am proving it too! :D

Headhunter Pro Mod
10-29-13, 12:16 PM
Good job Tom, I like it and will use your ideas on mine thanks!!!

ctsv247
01-27-14, 11:00 AM
^ offer something up. I will buy it, as will others.

Great work.

I'm trying to resurrect this thread because we have forum members who have the talent and the desire to offer us quality products. In my feeble mind, this project makes a lot of sense! Feedback/encouragement is appreciated!

Tom400CFI
09-17-14, 10:28 PM
UPDATE: It was a good improvement, but much better craftsmanship would have to be used to make it last. The glue I used to glue the upper shifter to the lower, keeps failing. I've glued the thing at least 4 times.

The guide pin broke off during some very aggressive shifting, which eliminated much of that "precision mechanical" feel. It still shifts good, and much better than it did before (before you couldn't even get it in first or reverse 1/2 the time), but over all, I think the BEST solution to this problem is to reduce the number of parts in the system. I "polished a turd"; I MADE the shitty stock shifter "feel good", by giving the actual shift lever a guide. But it's still a mess.

I wouldn't put any more effort into my version of this shifter (improving what I did). If I pursue this further, what I plan to do is remove and lengthen the internal shift rail, and then attache the shift lever directly to that, through a precision universal joint and shaft, very much like the shifter in the C4, ZF6 transmission.
http://www.rsgear.com/transmission-articles/images/zfs640_gearshiftlever.gif

Less parts, stronger parts, it's the right way to have a good, strong interface w/the transmission, I feel. That is the way to go, IMO.

ctsv247
09-18-14, 12:19 PM
Based on your lead, I welded tabs (not tubing) to my shifter base, bolted it to the transmission, ditched the gate option but went one further by modifying the shift linkage to capture both sides of the shift shaft coming out of the transmission so that it looks like a hurried but functional version of the linkage outlined in the link below...

http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/2004-2007-cadillac-cts-v-general/531025-maintenance-overhaul-thread.html

With all this in combination with a 54 shifter, My car shifts comparably well to any massed produced car I've ever owned. Could it be better, sure I guess but it is what it is....a massed produced GM vehicle.

While the route you're proposing seems fascinating to some degree, I can't imagine what a pain in the axx that would be. FuzzyLogic suggested that Tremec will be introducing a new MagnumXL that will have an extended shift rail/tailshaft which would be ideal...

http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/2004-2007-cadillac-cts-v-performance/557417-best-shifter-07-25-2014-a-2.html

hefftone
09-20-14, 02:31 PM
...I welded tabs (not tubing) to my shifter base, bolted it to the transmission...

I'd like to see how you did that. Got any pictures?

ctsv247
09-20-14, 04:00 PM
2nd page of this thread....http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/2004-2007-cadillac-cts-v-general/531025-maintenance-overhaul-thread-2.html