: Amp Problems...



soy_chingon13
03-20-05, 02:03 AM
I have a '90 Deville and my current set up is 2 10's and 2 12's. I used to have just 10's and a 600 and 300 watt amps with a thin wiring i used to hook it up real quick. I upgraded my wiring with 6 gauge, but after i did my amps began to overheat after about 45 min. of having it kinda loud and my fuse holder melted, but the glass fuse did not blow (35 amp fuse). I disconnected it and replaced the 300 with the 1000 and put the 2 12's. Using a heavier duty fuse holder and a 70 amp fuse I hooked it up, thinking i fixed the problem. The amps overheated again, and the fuse holder was ready to start melting like the last, but the fuse didn't blow. I know its not short circuiting because i hooked up the current without a fuse and the amps just got hot again. I now have a circuit breaker of 200 Amps but havent bumped it long enough yet to see if anything happens. Please help cuz i have no idea whats wrong! I never had this problem when i had my thinner wiring, (i think it was like 12 gauge) and the way its wired is exactly the same except i used to have my ground hooked up to the negative terminal, but now its on the huge bolt for the trunk hinge & on the bolt for the taillight, and my wire for the remote is thinner than it was (i dont think that matters tho).

My ground wire is the same gauge, my amps have plenty of air and didnt overheat before, and my insulation on my wiring doesnt seem to get hot or melt.

soy_chingon13
03-25-05, 05:43 PM
Anyone?

morroccoz1
03-26-05, 12:36 AM
Wow man, we need to start from the beginning here. First, you are back to just 2-12s? and a 1000? Are you bridging the subs? What are the ohms on the speakers? are the amps 300 and 1000 RMS or peak?
Sounds like you are pulling way more current than the power wire can handle. If you are way down on ohms with a high power amp, you are drawing a hell of a lot of current. We used to bridge speakers, meaning a 4 ohm and a 4 ohm bridged would be like 2. We had tricks to bring it down lower, but would burn up a lot of stuff because we pulled so much power.

Anyway, let me know and we can try to draw some conclusions. All I know is I hope you are going to a competition, because you can probably gain a lot more from 2 subs and one amp if you just run the right stuff.

NAVIPLUS
03-26-05, 09:44 AM
what kind of woofers are you running and on what amp, are the woofers dual voice coil or single, what is the impedince of wooferce, what resistance can amp accept, hooking up systems is not that easy as you might think

Big_Blue
03-28-05, 08:27 AM
I always learned that resistance causes heat. So if your amps are overheating alot then you have too much resistance.

First I wouldnt use 6 gauge wires at all for 200 watts let alone 1000 watts.
Change those wires to 4 or 2 to be safe(amp could be struggling to
get more power)
Second Your ground wire should be no longer then 8 inches and the ground
should be the same guage as the wire from battery
Third Use a better ground point. Find a hidden spot and scrap the paint
and other stuff off until you get to the actual metal of the car and
then add your ground wire. When done spray battery terminal spray
over the bolt and spot so you dont get rust.

Did you put more grounds on your car since adding your system? The most common problem I found when people putting in systems is they dont think the car needs better grounds when adding more to it

Just think your car was setup from the factory with the balance of resistance that it needs which still sucks. Get a voltage meter and check your resistances on your positive and negative grounds.Change your factory grounds to better wires(thicker) add some grounds to your Chasis cause your resistance is prolly above .10 which is best to get to zero when system is at its peak.

Resistance is heat.

davesdeville
03-28-05, 05:37 PM
Resistance is heat... but it could be a lack of resistance in the subs themselves causing the amp to push more wattage than it's rated for and overheating that way.

maydog
03-28-05, 09:05 PM
If you can, draw us a schematic of your problem setup and indicate where the overheat is occurring. To me is sounds as if your wiring is overheating not your amp - a good drawing will clear up any confusion.

Big_Blue
03-28-05, 10:40 PM
davesdeville (member.php?u=1741)

Read what he said. The fuse holder is melting because of what? Resistance or strain. So before I would even look at the speakers I would check the wires. Also towards the end of what he said he moved the ground. If the ground isnt doing its job well enough then the amp is holding power that should be grounded. It wouldnt matter how bad his wiring for the speakers can be, it wouldnt make a fuse holder melt

I feel his problem is that his amp or amps are trying to suck a gallon of milk threw a straw in a few seconds and letting it back out the same way. Impossible !!
Provide better flow for power and you will less heat.

maydog
03-28-05, 10:57 PM
davesdeville (member.php?u=1741)
I feel his problem is that his amp or amps are trying to suck a gallon of milk threw a straw in a few seconds and letting it back out the same way. Impossible [b]!!


You have not met my wife!

But seriously, he may want to check the current draw of the amp at low or no volume levels to see if a ground loop is causing a dc offset on his input which would result in a constant current draw. This would be more likely to cause the type of heating that would melt wires as opposed to a transient current spike that would blow fuses.

D148L0
03-29-05, 10:36 AM
davesdeville (member.php?u=1741)

Read what he said. The fuse holder is melting because of what? Resistance or strain. So before I would even look at the speakers I would check the wires. Also towards the end of what he said he moved the ground. If the ground isnt doing its job well enough then the amp is holding power that should be grounded. It wouldnt matter how bad his wiring for the speakers can be, it wouldnt make a fuse holder melt

I feel his problem is that his amp or amps are trying to suck a gallon of milk threw a straw in a few seconds and letting it back out the same way. Impossible !!
Provide better flow for power and you will less heat.

Your logic is correct (I disagree with the 8 inch ground rule, but not biggie).
But there is only one way to know for sure. He should provide us with:

a)The model / total RMS rating of his amps.
b)The wiring configuration of the speakers in question.
c)Ideally, the distance between battery/amps.

With those elements, we can know for sure what the problems are, and what to do to solve them (suggest wiring gauge, fuse rating, etc).

Everything else is mere speculation.

soy_chingon13
04-22-05, 12:21 AM
I'm back, its been a while cuz i've been busy with school. Anyway, THANKS EVERYBODY on the advice. Ive tried all of it with no luck. But here is the info you guys were lookin' for to be able to help me better (ive changed a few things)...
I replaced my fuse with a circuit breaker, which solved my problem with heating of the wires, and will probably end up saving me money cuz i dont have to buy fuses anymore. 8 guage wire is powering my 1000 watt amp, which is powering my 2 10's. The ground is about 3 ft long 8 guage and in the trunk and my power cable is about 23 ft long; my remote wire is still real thin but i havent changed it cuz i dont think that could cause the problem. My amp overheats still, and its not that the amp is bad cuz i exchanged it with a 600 watt amp this week and it overheated also. My trunk has plenty of room for air circulation, ive tried mounting on top of the box, and even on the rear end of the trunk so the air of the bandpass box could keep it cool (no luck with that either). Here are my amps and subs...
1000 watt amp http://www.gotcmt.com/eshop/catalog/1361.htm
600 watt amp (i only found it on ebay) http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=1498&item=5769108364&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW
10 inch subs http://www.audiovox.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10001&storeId=10001&productId=13456&langId=-1
My speakers were bridged each time cuz it makes it louder (both amps are bridgeable)

maydog
04-22-05, 12:46 AM
Do your amps get pretty hot at low/no volume levels or do they only get hot at high volume?

I would still do a little research into ground loops. A dc offset will cause unecessary heating leading to premature amp failure. An offset will also limit your linear range on the output, limiting the maximum distortion free amplification of your signal.

cheers

soy_chingon13
04-22-05, 07:01 PM
My amp doesn't get hot at low volume, the louder it is, the faster it overheats

weister42
05-01-05, 01:50 PM
Hum...I know car audio pretty decent, here's what I have to say about it...

1. 8 guage wires are the bare minimum for subwoofer amplifiers, due to the nature of the application a subwoofer amplifier needs high current, and anything that adds resistance to the current flow will reduce output and possibly blowing the amp from overcurrent/low voltage. Use at least 4 guage wires and install an 100 amp fuse holder as close to the battery as possible. The fuse next to your battery should be bigger than your amp's fuse rating to compensate for power loss from taveling all the way to the trunk, in this case it's 80 amp, so 90+ amp fuse will work great. Ground wires have to be the same guage as the main power wire even though it's usually a lot shorter. Make sure all the electrical connections are clean and tight, be sure to install the ground to BARE METAL, if you can't find one you'll have to drill a hole into your car chassis and sand off all the paint where the wire will be screwed down to(watch where that drill is drilling into!!!) I use 0-guage wire and a second battery just for a 1000 watt amp, but that's RMS not cheap peak ratings.

2. If everything is hooked up right but it is still overheating then you need to check your subs for bad voice coil. When a speaker overheats the voice coil can short out and cause a short, in this case the amplifier should sense the very low impedance and shut itself down. Sometimes the resistance don't drop all the way to 0 so the amp may keep playing even if it's not supposed to, and only overheats when the amp overcurrent due to a low ohm load at high volume.

3. If the subs checks out okay(use a ohm meter) then maybe it's time for you to buy better components:D

D148L0
05-01-05, 02:25 PM
1. 8 guage wires are the bare minimum for subwoofer amplifiers, due to the nature of the application a subwoofer amplifier needs high current, and anything that adds resistance to the current flow will reduce output and possibly blowing the amp from overcurrent/low voltage. Use at least 4 guage wires and install an 100 amp fuse holder as close to the battery as possible. The fuse next to your battery should be bigger than your amp's fuse rating to compensate for power loss from taveling all the way to the trunk, in this case it's 80 amp, so 90+ amp fuse will work great. Ground wires have to be the same guage as the main power wire even though it's usually a lot shorter. Make sure all the electrical connections are clean and tight, be sure to install the ground to BARE METAL, if you can't find one you'll have to drill a hole into your car chassis and sand off all the paint where the wire will be screwed down to(watch where that drill is drilling into!!!) I use 0-guage wire and a second battery just for a 1000 watt amp, but that's RMS not cheap peak ratings.


There is no minimum or maximum per se. The minimum gauge is not given by the amp application but should be calculated according to RMS wattage rating and distance from the battery.
Same thing goes for the fuse. If you don't properly calculate what fuse(s) do you need for your specific system, installing a too large one is as useless and potentially dangerous as not installing one at all.

The battery only increases the time you can play you system with the engine off. It does not contribute to give more power to the amp(s).

JC316
05-01-05, 03:06 PM
An amp that big should have internal fans, but it might not. I would get a high flow computer cooling fan and mount it so it blows on the amps to keep them cool.

soy_chingon13
05-01-05, 10:12 PM
Thanks; ill try installing a fan and hopefully it will help