: Burning radiator fluid :(



ronr
08-12-13, 02:46 PM
Started my V today and lots of white smoke coming from the exhaust (mostly drivers side.) I've had the maggie intercooler empty for a while because there was some sort of leak in the supercharger that was causing coolant from the intercooler system to get into the engine. I hadn't gotten around to pulling it off and checking things out but now that it looks like I have a blown head gasket I'll get it all apart and fixed.

Any advice/tips/tricks I should pay attention to in changing the gaskets?
Gasket recommendations?
Other things I should consider doing while I'm in there (I'm a little over 130k miles and nearly 115k of those are with the supercharger)?

PJGross
08-12-13, 03:18 PM
No clue on the tips other than change the IC pump as PM. I just R&R'd the rear belt on my Maggie and when I went to purge the air in the IC piping I found the Bosch pump was seized. Needed a new relay, too.

Also, you're overdue on changing the Maggie gear oil so get some at the dealer. I'd get a belt, too. Magnuson told me 100k on the oil. I forgot to do this when it was off so in 20k miles I'll be pulling mine again. :(

-PJ

DMM
08-12-13, 03:42 PM
Stock MLS gaskets are plenty strong. I'd upgrade to ARP bolts over OE TTY bolts and make sure to replace the lifters and trays as PM. LS7 lifters are $120 and new trays are $20. I would have your heads looked at while they're off, and sending them to TEA or Advanced Inductions for performance work will likely be less than sending them to the local machine shop.

Hell, you may want to go ahead and do a cam and timing chain while you're there and breathe a little life in the old girl. I would definately get the intercooler fixed while apart. A local radiator shop should be able to fix it if it is leaking. High IAT's are an engine killer.

One last thing above all else, chase the head bolt threads and make sure there is absolutely NO liquid in the bolt holes. You can crack the block torquing the head bolts if there is.

ronr
08-12-13, 03:48 PM
No clue on the tips other than change the IC pump as PM. I just R&R'd the rear belt on my Maggie and when I went to purge the air in the IC piping I found the Bosch pump was seized. Needed a new relay, too.

Also, you're overdue on changing the Maggie gear oil so get some at the dealer. I'd get a belt, too. Magnuson told me 100k on the oil. I forgot to do this when it was off so in 20k miles I'll be pulling mine again. :(

-PJ

Thanks PJ,
Great tip on the IC pump. I'll be sure to check that.

I actually expect that I'll need to send the maggie in since it has an internal coolant leak. Mine was also a very early one with a steel jack shaft between the front and rear pulleys so it's probably worth having it checked over by Magnuson and getting any upgrades (like the CF jackshaft) along with belts, bearings, oil...

ronr
08-12-13, 07:07 PM
... sending them to TEA or Advanced Inductions for performance work will likely be less than sending them to the local machine shop.

Hell, you may want to go ahead and do a cam and timing chain while you're there and breathe a little life in the old girl.

You're going to get me in trouble with Randy's wife again. Every trip down the mod rabbit hole for me has been replicated by Randy and then I get in trouble for encouraging him!

Actually, that's a good idea :)

lollygagger8
08-13-13, 09:33 AM
DMM is correct. Chase those thread holes before reinstalling the heads. I put in ARP studs, but their bolts are great too. With that many miles, I would definitely change out the lifters if not a new cam/timing chain. Also, like DMM said while the heads are off, you might as well go through them and if you get a cam, you'll have to change out the springs anyways.


This will help you get it apart/back together......
http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/2004-2007-cadillac-cts-v-performance/271396-heads-cam-intake-throttle-body-install.html

PJGross
08-13-13, 10:18 AM
One other thing: don't buy 10 grommets for that IAT hole, I have a few extra! ;)

Sounds like you have a great excuse a few extras in that head gasket change! :)

-PJ

PISNUOFF
08-13-13, 10:31 AM
Do you really think the head gaskets are what is letting the coolant into the cylinders? I would remove the Maggie and see if it isn't the culprit and really inspect closely the intake and exhaust runners of your heads.

Although...it would only be $100 for head gaskets....$150 for head bolts......$150 for lifters and trays.....$700 for camshaft, pushrods and valve springs....$20 for valve seals.....$150 for a timing chain....$150 for an oil pump.....$150 for Comp rocker trunion upgrade...$700 for head porting (not sure on that amount).....$50 for misc. supplies to clean up and lap valves....

I'll spend your money all day long. Haha

Becker
08-13-13, 01:53 PM
Agreed, find the problems / inspect thouroughly and then decide which repair / mod route to go....thats my opinion

ronr
08-13-13, 02:39 PM
This will help you get it apart/back together......
http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/2004-2007-cadillac-cts-v-performance/271396-heads-cam-intake-throttle-body-install.html

Thanks, this is helpful!

rand49er
08-13-13, 06:28 PM
You're going to get me in trouble with Randy's wife again. Every trip down the mod rabbit hole for me has been replicated by Randy and then I get in trouble for encouraging him!

Actually, that's a good idea :)Actually, she doesn't know about the headers, the exhaust, the lowering kit, the maggie, the shifter, the clutch, the ... well, you get the idea. Ron has been a real mod instigator as far as I'm concerned.

I think I'm going to plug my ears on the rest of this thread .:shhh:

ronr
08-13-13, 07:11 PM
Okay,

Blower is off. Only complication was breaking the plastic pulley on the belt tensioner :(

Passenger side head went well until the last rocker arm bolt which broke 5 of my 8mm sockets before one held together and it managed to round the bolt!! :banghead: Any suggestions other than drilling off the head of the bolt to get that thing out?

Drivers side head came off without any issues. However, the REAL issue is the piece of piston #1 that's missing and nowhere to be found. Looks like this is going to be a bigger project than I anticipated originally :helpless:

PISNUOFF
08-13-13, 07:16 PM
Oh man. Bad news. Sorry.

But I can tell you how to spend $10k to 'fix' it.

rand49er
08-13-13, 10:05 PM
... the piece of piston #1 that's missing and nowhere to be found ...Yikes! Guess we won't wait up for you at the Dream Cruise.

At this point, I'm thinking: how far are you going to go before you reverse direction and start the motor reassembly process? Oh, my ...

ronr
08-13-13, 10:09 PM
But I can tell you how to spend $10k to 'fix' it.

Certainly opens up some more possibilities.

----------


At this point, I'm thinking: how far are you going to go before you reverse direction and start the motor reassembly process? Oh, my ...

At this point a crate motor might be a better option??

rand49er
08-14-13, 07:23 AM
... At this point a crate motor might be a better option??A crate motor would sure be the easiest way to go. Maybe this whole episode will be a blessing ... except to the pocketbook.


EDIT: Sounds like a crate engine is not an option as they are unavailable.

DMM
08-14-13, 01:38 PM
Thompson motorsports is one of the best around at the moment. Killer prices, incredible cust service, excellent t warranty, and they just flat out do good work. I wouldn't get too crazy if you plan on keeping the Maggie since its close to maxed out now.

Texas speed builds good motors also, but their head programs are not at the level of better vendors at or near the same price. Thompson will get my money if/when I go forged or 383.

http://thompsonmotorsports.net/

rand49er
08-14-13, 02:29 PM
Ron, just like DMM points out, there are a number of options. I know you've done work with Katech in the past. Are you thinking of using them?

ronr
08-14-13, 02:52 PM
Ron, just like DMM points out, there are a number of options. I know you've done work with Katech in the past. Are you thinking of using them?

I'll check with Jason at Katech and see what they can do. There do seem to be a lot of options... probably too many :alchi:

I think I need to get it out of the car and check it over before I get serious about which option to pursue.

PJGross
08-14-13, 03:19 PM
That sucks to hear the problem was a little more extensive. Sounds like LS3 time to me, selling the Maggie as a used kit to offset the costs. You would lose the whine but you'd probably have a better looking power curve.... just have to drive a little higher in the rpm band.... :)

Good luck sorting this out,

PJ

ronr
08-14-13, 06:12 PM
Status update:

Remove front facia - check
Remove radiator - check
Remove maggie intercooler tank and pump - check
Remove front accessories and/or move out of the way (AC compressor, alternator, belt tensioner) - check
Hoses off water pump - check
Wiring harness disconnected from engine - check
Recall that battery, hood, maggie, drivers side head and exhaust manifold from passengers side head were already off yesterday

Now:
- Do I have to remove the trans with the engine or is there enough room to leave the trans in place and just pull the engine?
- I still have the one rounded rocker bolt to deal with on the passengers side head. Should I drill it and remove the head prior to pulling the engine or just leave it until I get the thing out of the car? Since the drivers side head is already off I'm afraid the motor will want to rotate too much while removing with only one head in place.

Need to go borrow my friends cherry picker and get a new engine stand but hope to get it out and on the stand tomorrow.

----------


That sucks to hear the problem was a little more extensive. Sounds like LS3 time to me, selling the Maggie as a used kit to offset the costs. PJ

I'm half wondering if it's not time to part out the whole car and offset the costs of a newer V :hide:

rand49er
08-14-13, 07:55 PM
Great progress, Ron.

How is your body and interior? If pretty good, doing the motor might make sense.

Parting it out could make financial sense (eventually), but it'll take a ton of your time (I'd think) not to mention you may have to have it sitting around for a lengthy period of time as the parts sell off.

Speaking of which, what color is your rear seat, bench and back? :cool2:

ronr
08-14-13, 08:04 PM
Speaking of which, what color is your rear seat, bench and back? :cool2:

You should stop by tomorrow and see. My 9 year old is having an "M Go Blue" birthday party. You'd feel right at home. :)

DMM
08-15-13, 03:09 AM
I would pull the other head without pulling the rocker...it'll be just fine and give you more room. I have never pulled an engine and trans, not with anything, just way too much of a PITA...but I have always had a lift. In all honesty, you'd probably be best off putting a stock motor/rebuild in and sell the car and the maggie separately if you plan on going V2.

I agree with the LS3 route mentioned earlier, but that is a different level of mod hell.

rand49er
08-15-13, 07:53 AM
You should stop by tomorrow and see. My 9 year old is having an "M Go Blue" birthday party. You'd feel right at home. :)What time?

ronr
08-15-13, 08:12 AM
What time?

Kids party starts @ noon. The rest will go into the evening. Tell Jacob to bring his swim suit. The pool is heated :)

rand49er
08-15-13, 08:51 AM
PM sent.

ronr
08-26-13, 09:56 AM
Update: Everything is out of the car and apart now. Blower is at Magnuson. Motor is apart and piston is out.

Next steps: Still exploring short block/crate options but leaning toward a simpler rebuild of my existing motor. Specifically:

1. Replace pistons/rings - thinking about Mahle LS1314908F04 but not sure if compression would be too high with this given my blower, although I'm not running very high boost.
2. Port my existing heads - David (xRaTeD on the other forum), AI or similar
3. Valve job - local shop
4. Valve train upgrades - double springs, Ti retainers, lifters, trays, cam, timing set (from my friend at Comp Cams)
5. Look over transmission - I'm headed down to the US Nationals in Indy this week and will drop my T56 by RPM Transmission to have them look it over and make sure everything is as it should be (it's an RPM Level V T56 already)
6. I'm still going back and forth on whether I'll put headers on while I'm changing things.