: 7.5 or 8 Quarts of Oil for the DTS????



tjwhite721
08-10-13, 08:27 PM
Most NorthStar Engines call for 7.5 quarts of oil. However, why do I always need to add 8 quarts of oil? Every-time I go to the dealer to get my oil changed, I check it after they change it, it's always a half quart low. If I go to a local mechanic, he adds 8 quarts.

What is the correct quart amount for the DTS?

Cadillac Cust Svc
08-10-13, 11:04 PM
Hello tjwhite721,

I researched this question and in your owner’s manual in chapter 5, page 101 it states that the capacity of your engine oil is 7.5 quarts. I hope this information helps! Feel free to private message me if you have any further questions or concerns. Thank you very much for your time.

Gregory W.
Cadillac Customer Care

Andrew Armitage
08-10-13, 11:47 PM
Normal reading on the dip stick should be 1/2 way up the area marked full.

MoistCabbage
08-11-13, 12:13 AM
:yeah:

Half way up the hash marks is FULL (xxxxxXxxxxx)

TulsaVic
08-11-13, 09:03 AM
Just guessing: 7.5 for the engine, 0.5 for the new oil filter??

tjwhite721
08-11-13, 09:26 AM
Thanks everyone for your responses. I was used to measuring the oil using the old quarter quarter lines dip stick off my old SLS. Yes, the DTS has xxxxXxxxx as a measuring guide. So the big X in the middle is the FULL measuring? That is kind of odd to me.

I would think the big X in the middle of the measuring groves to represent half a quarter or half a quart low and time to add oil.

TulsaViv, that is what someone told me as well. The oil filter takes about 0.5. Not sure that is why it turns out to be 8 quarts???

Submariner409
08-11-13, 10:32 AM
Bottom line: 7.5 quarts WITH (including) filter. Oddball - yes. My Ford 4.6 in the truck takes 6.5 - same operating range.

The hashmark is the "operating range" of oil levels. The highlighted center X is the design desired level.

In my 2002 I run the level in the bottom third of the hashmark and get just about 6,000 miles per quart of 5W-30 synthetic. No leaks, either.

Superjim
08-11-13, 10:34 AM
Just a thought....
Maybe the big "X" in the middle is correct if you are checking it when the engine is COLD...
Don't know for sure... just a thought...

Submariner409
08-11-13, 10:37 AM
.............. and "cold" would be the desired level just after an oil/filter change............. no way will you or the Oil Doodle get that nice, clean new oil up to the normal 190 - 220 degrees in 2 minutes of idling.

Superjim
08-11-13, 10:51 AM
I just looked at the dipstick in my car...
It does NOT have a highlighted or large X in the middle of of the hashmarks.
.
.
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j40/superjim1944/Mobile%20Uploads/20130811_083125_zps34f75df8.jpg (http://s76.photobucket.com/user/superjim1944/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20130811_083125_zps34f75df8.jpg.html)

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The oil level is between 3/8 and 1/2 inch below the TOP hash mark...
This is where it always is when the engine is cold...
Hard to see in this picture... the oil is clean...
.
.

http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j40/superjim1944/Mobile%20Uploads/20130811_083326_zps4dd1ffcf.jpg (http://s76.photobucket.com/user/superjim1944/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20130811_083326_zps4dd1ffcf.jpg.html)

Submariner409
08-11-13, 11:00 AM
........... and they seem to have changed the markings sometime after 2003 - the earlier 2000's dipsticks look like this ..........

<==== ADD XXXXXXXXXX OPERATING RANGE ==============oo==============================O

........ and exactly 7.5 quarts including filter puts the level at XXXXXXXXXX

(the two "o" marks are rivets)

Superjim
08-11-13, 11:04 AM
Now that you mention it... I remember the rivets in some of my older cars.... :)

jazoo
08-11-13, 01:37 PM
Most NorthStar Engines call for 7.5 quarts of oil. However, why do I always need to add 8 quarts of oil? Every-time I go to the dealer to get my oil changed, I check it after they change it, it's always a half quart low. If I go to a local mechanic, he adds 8 quarts.

What is the correct quart amount for the DTS?

Page 101 of the Owners Manual defines capacities of various fluids. It clearly says that the capacity is 7.5 quarts for Engine Oil with Filter. I do not add more than the specified amount as I am afraid of the following shown on Page 5-41:


Notice: Do not add too much oil. If the engine hasso much oil that the oil level gets above the
cross-hatched area that shows the proper operating
range, the engine could be damaged.

MoistCabbage
08-11-13, 03:56 PM
The engine's not going to be damaged by an extra half quart of oil. Even a quart and a half over wouldn't do anything.

Anything over 7.5 will be consumed fairly quickly. It's wasteful, that's why the capacity was initially reduced.

BlueAngel#07
08-12-13, 05:13 PM
ODDLY strange, ...I just got off the phone with my cadillac dealer in regards to what is full on the dipstick. I was told that the full range was at the top of the crosshatching on the DTS, and the difference between the center and the top was about a 1/2 quart,:o:

Superjim
08-12-13, 06:25 PM
That's about right....
On my car... if it is down about 1/2 inch down when the engine is "COLD"... it will be right at the top of the crosshatch when the engine is "HOT"..
Almost 2 gallons of oil expand a good bit when it gets hot.

Submariner409
08-12-13, 08:39 PM
You will find that most Cadillac service writers have no more idea than the Man In The Moon about correct capacities - or even specifications - for fluids. If you want the level truth, talk to the grease rack kid. (or, read your owner's manual when all else fails.)

7.5 quarts of oil, including filter. Believe it.

BlueAngel#07
08-12-13, 09:09 PM
don't get me wrong...no offense, however there may be some difference from model to model, mine does not have the center "X" on the dip stick. And I watched the them do the oil change the last time and ...7.5 is what they put in. at the top of the crosshatched area. Go figure, as I mentioned before on my last DTS it was down in the mid section of the the crosshatched area and I had some noise issues, brought it up to the top after finding out that the tech only put 6.5 in it as that was all that the oil change allotted for:cookoo:and left it that way without asking if I wanted to spend three more dollars to make it right. I BELIEVE it...
You will find that most Cadillac service writers have no more idea than the Man In The Moon about correct capacities - or even specifications - for fluids. If you want the level truth, talk to the grease rack kid. (or, read your owner's manual when all else fails.)

7.5 quarts of oil, including filter. Believe it.

MoistCabbage
08-13-13, 12:32 AM
There is no "center X" on the dipstick.

And you will have no noise because of "only" 6.5 quarts being in the crankcase. The low oil message isn't triggered until ~5.5 quarts remain, and even that won't cause any problems.

BlueAngel#07
08-13-13, 04:57 AM
I have Anal ears,lol....unfortunately, I hear every little thing in a engine.:bug: For some reason it made a difference, she didn't like being short changed at a 100k:lolsign:135841(old one was like this)

MoistCabbage
08-13-13, 05:27 AM
Thing is, there's zero oil starvation at 1-2 quarts low. The oil pump is pumping just as much oil to all the same places at 5.5 quarts, as it is at 7.5 quarts. :noidea:

BlueAngel#07
08-13-13, 07:37 AM
maybe it was just one those things that came and went with time and didn't know it. the tick was ever so slight. your more than likely right :bigroll:Now that I think about it. It stopped when I put the oil stabilizer in it. ....yeah yea I know...Snake oil. lol

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You will find that most Cadillac service writers have no more idea than the Man In The Moon about correct capacities - or even specifications - for fluids. If you want the level truth, talk to the grease rack kid. (or, read your owner's manual when all else fails.)

7.5 quarts of oil, including filter. Believe it.I am going to try leaving a bit low ...just to see what happens with the issue I have at present.

Submariner409
08-13-13, 10:16 AM
If you installed "Moe's Oil Stabilizer", that's pure snake oil. If you installed one of the commercial MilSpec engine oil stabilizers (about 8 oz.) used in long-term storage situations, that's an entirely different animal. (Various magic potions and additives on the store shelves - Google "spiff" and associate that with the advice of the checkout counter cash register operator - or that of the guy that follows you around with "May I help you find something ?".)

The "center X" thing was a text reference to the proper oil level on a Northstar dipstick - here's the keyboard graphic of the same thing:

<=== ADD XXXXXXXXXX OPERATING RANGE =====================oo=========================== =O

where XXX will be the proper disptick indication after a 7.5 quart oil change including filter. Other Northstar dipstick words may vary.

If you will read the Cadillac Technical Archive way up ^^^ in the black bar you'll see articles on oil, oil life, and associated stuff (like wide open throttle operation). Written by one of the original GM Northstar Powertrain engineers, it gives insight into why Northstars tend to throw off oil when overfilled.

tjwhite721
08-15-13, 06:58 AM
If you installed "Moe's Oil Stabilizer", that's pure snake oil. If you installed one of the commercial MilSpec engine oil stabilizers (about 8 oz.) used in long-term storage situations, that's an entirely different animal. (Various magic potions and additives on the store shelves - Google "spiff" and associate that with the advice of the checkout counter cash register operator - or that of the guy that follows you around with "May I help you find something ?".)

The "center X" thing was a text reference to the proper oil level on a Northstar dipstick - here's the keyboard graphic of the same thing:

<=== ADD XXXXXXXXXX OPERATING RANGE =====================oo=========================== =O

where XXX will be the proper disptick indication after a 7.5 quart oil change including filter. Other Northstar dipstick words may vary.

If you will read the Cadillac Technical Archive way up ^^^ in the black bar you'll see articles on oil, oil life, and associated stuff (like wide open throttle operation). Written by one of the original GM Northstar Powertrain engineers, it gives insight into why Northstars tend to throw off oil when overfilled.

Thanks Submariner! The solution is to drive it like we stole it! Lmao! I do drive fast on highways and accelerate hard between stops in town. It's a performance engine!!!
Cadillac should had made every DTS with the magnetic ride control :-( , I have the smooth riding soft suspension. However, that doesn't stop me and after reading these articles below, gonna gas my big Caddy Black Knight rider even more!:cool2:



"An last, but not least, air the engine out frequently. It likes to be used and red-line upshifts at WOT help promote clean combustion chambers, exercise the piston rings to keep them free of carbon buildup and keep them mobile and to ensure the engine is broken in and maximum sealing is obtained. The Northstar does not like to be babied around. It likes to be run hard frequently with a WOT blast in merging or whatever.... Even engines reported to use 1 quart per 1500 miles tend to improve to 2500 miles per quart or better when subjected to a regular schedule of use and "abuse"..."

"The one thing that I can attest to is that many, many customer oil consumption complaint engines have been torn down with absolutely nothing wrong found. The engines are often reassembled and put into test cars and driven by the engineers and more often than not the high oil consumption does not repeat itself !!! The single biggest common cause seems to be breakin...or lack there of. Many, many oil consuming NOrthstar engines are "fixed" by some full throttle operation. I often joke about "driving it like you stole it" but it really is no joke. The Northstar engine was designed as a high performance engine to be run hard and fast. Those that are run hard typically exhibit excellent ring seal, little carbon build up and good oil economy. We have seen engines with tens of thousands of miles on them that the rings have not sealed or mated to the sides of the ring grooves because the operating schedule was so light duty. The moral here is to flog it .... often."

Note: When I had my 99 SLS Northstar engine rebuilt, they said it looked better than some of the 2008 Northstar engines that had a lot of "scaring" inside. When they opened up mine, there was practically no scaring. I drove that baby like a race car. Most of the new Caddy buyers are senior citizens who don't drive hard and fast. Maybe once I make the big bucks, I can buy one with 0 miles and run it hard.

MoistCabbage
08-15-13, 07:18 AM
Driving fast and flooring it between stops doesn't quite do it. Read the Technical Archives.

Superjim
08-15-13, 10:55 AM
Driving fast and flooring it between stops doesn't quite do it. Read the Technical Archives.

Mine uses -0- oil or so close it is hard to measure any oil consumption.

I drive it fast and sometimes floor it between stops...
Are you saying that is is now going to start using oil????

Please tell me how I should be driving it....

Submariner409
08-16-13, 11:59 AM
Are you saying that is is now going to start using oil????

Nope - If the engine is used for some city, some highway, and occasional "spirited driving" then you should be just fine. The "drive it like you stole it" deal applies to engines that plod around town, get sticky and lazy and need a wakeup call every now and then.

I drive lots of highway as well as quite a bit of of other crazy stuff, and my oil consumption - like yours - is almost unmeasurable. Right now I'm getting about 6,000 miles/quart running 5W-30 synthetic and WIX 51522 oil filters.

MoistCabbage
08-16-13, 11:55 PM
Mine uses -0- oil or so close it is hard to measure any oil consumption.

I drive it fast and sometimes floor it between stops...
Are you saying that is is now going to start using oil????No. But if a car NEEDED a few good WOT runs to clear some carbon from around the rings, flooding it for a few seconds, or driving fast on the highway (a constant ~3,000 RPMs is nothing) will not have the same effect as the procedure in the Technical Archives.

Extended high RPM, high vacuum conditions upon decel is the important part.