: LT1 to LS1 Engine Swap



N0DIH
03-14-05, 06:05 PM
With all the LS series V8's out there, I have to ask, what is involved in a LS1 swap in a 93-96 Fleetwood?

Just losing the weight from an LT1 to an LS1 is WELL worth it. Let alone the potential power improvements and possibilities!

I am mainly focusing on a 5.7L Aluminum swap, possibly an LS2 swap. Not a truck LS series swap. To heavy.... But the Cadillac Escalade 6.0L has possibilities.

Tom

caddycruiser
03-14-05, 06:15 PM
I wonder about the same thing, because while I'll probably never make such a drastic change to the car, it would really make the Fleetwood awesome. :sneaky:

evilrussian
03-14-05, 06:27 PM
http://www.speartech.com/cc-1992_ls1_buick_roadmaster.html

http://shiggins.bounceme.net/images/impala%5Fpictures/

N0DIH
03-14-05, 08:29 PM
It seems one of the bigger issues is wiring. Will the existing 4L60E bolt to an LS1?

How about this? Use the LT1 computer and adapt the LT1 wiring.

A temp sensor is a temp sensor, a O2 is an O2, need to make the ECM think there is an Optispark or something to make that mess work (to me it sounds relatively "easy", but then again, I am in the electronics industry and have friends who work on ECM design teams at my company), fuel injectors are fuel injectors, yada yada....

It would be an interesting project.

anyone have an LS1 powererd Y or F car to donate to me to try it?

Tom

evilrussian
03-14-05, 09:38 PM
Your Fleet is a '94, right? That makes it an OBD1 and all LS1's are OBD2. I'm not sure if there are big differences in electronics between two, I'm positive there are some. I'd guess that you gonna need an entire package, i.e. motor, ECU, harness and so on...

N0DIH
03-14-05, 10:04 PM
I guess the thoughts I have is the engine doesn't know if it is ODBI or II. Only the ECM does.

I need to dig up on the LS1 series V8, but making it OBDI is a thought to make it run on a 95 and older much easier.

Tom

devilleconcours100
03-14-05, 10:51 PM
I remember seeing a "Corvette Fever" magazine in late 1999 that told how to convert a Corvette LT1 to a LS engine. I do not remember them replacing the block, which I believe is what you are talking about, but they were able to get 400+ Horsepower. Since the LT1 is the same in a Corvette as a Fleetwood, this kind of modification is possible.
Thanks

devilleconcours100
03-14-05, 10:56 PM
Hi, everybody, I found the magazine and this is what they did, they took a stock LT-1 out of a 1994 Corvette, added high perfomance camshaft, throttle body, and a supercharger. In the process they spent about 13,000.00 and ended up with a 613 hp engine with 593 ft-lbs of torque. They also rebore the block to a LS-6 Standard, they claimed. The work was done by a shop pretty close to me here in NC, More Performance of Charlotte, NC. I have never taken any of my cars there, or used their parts, but I have heard other guys say they were good.

Thanks, Dave

N0DIH
03-15-05, 01:29 AM
I guess in reality the best $ spent is probably sticking with the LT1 block, and concentrate on things that beef up bottom end torque. Which usually ends up in displacement, usually things that make the stroke longer.

One of those best bang for the buck deals. The LS1 sounds like it lacks low end torque as compared to the LT1. And when you have 4500# to lug around before you add passengers and luggage!

Hey, it was a strange thought..... Maybe better $ would be a 454 with a set of Feuling heads....

Tom

Stoneage_Caddy
03-15-05, 01:59 AM
anyone look closely at the link of the impala ? there is 6 gears on that there console ...

man i need to get me a place to live with a garage of my own .....I gotta have me a big car with a 6 speed and a big v8 .....

surlyjoe
03-15-05, 02:00 AM
The ls1 swap is quite possible but probably not worth it. The lt1 is a great engine as is the ls1. The weight saving would not be very noticeable in a car as heavy as fleetwood. its only ~100 lbs. 4500, 4400 still heavy car. For more power just modify the lt1.

davesdeville
03-15-05, 02:41 AM
Do a 500 like iceheart was thinking about awhile ago. 500ft.lbs would move 4500 pounds pretty well.

N0DIH
03-15-05, 08:21 PM
That is a thought, get a 76 Fuelie 500 and modify it to modern LT1 ECM and beef up a THM200 4R for it and enjoy!!

Current Car Craft has a buildup for a THM200 4R to survive 800 HP/800 lb ft torque. Works for me.

Tom

evilrussian
03-15-05, 09:32 PM
That is a thought, get a 76 Fuelie 500 and modify it to modern LT1 ECM and beef up a THM200 4R for it and enjoy!!

Current Car Craft has a buildup for a THM200 4R to survive 800 HP/800 lb ft torque. Works for me.

Tom

Nice to hear that, so it's not only me that has faith in 200-4R's. Mine is slowly getting built up, in stages... :lildevil:

I better check that Car Crap article.

caddycruiser
03-15-05, 11:07 PM
Just out of curiousity, how hard is it to swap a newer LT1 into a '93 Fleetwood, which only came with the older TBI 350? Difficult? Wiring or electrical issues? As is, I love the turbine smoothness and strong guts of my '93 TBI with 99k, but you never know down the road.

evilrussian
03-15-05, 11:24 PM
Just out of curiousity, how hard is it to swap a newer LT1 into a '93 Fleetwood, which only came with the older TBI 350? Difficult? Wiring or electrical issues? As is, I love the turbine smoothness and strong guts of my '93 TBI with 99k, but you never know down the road.
You wiring harness has provision for only 2 fuel injectors - LT1's have 8, you got a distributor - LT2's have optispark... I'm sure there are other major differences as well... But if you can find a donor car like wrecked Caprice or a Camaro you can swap EVERYTHING including a harness and ECU without worrying compatibilty issues. Anything is possible to swap if you put your mind to it...

N0DIH
03-16-05, 01:36 PM
Just out of curiousity, how hard is it to swap a newer LT1 into a '93 Fleetwood, which only came with the older TBI 350? Difficult? Wiring or electrical issues? As is, I love the turbine smoothness and strong guts of my '93 TBI with 99k, but you never know down the road.

I would take a look at Edelbrock's bolt on Port EFI for the TBI 350's, and then add a set of iron Vortec heads to it. That would get you nearly the performance of a LT1 without removing the engine from the car.

Tom

evilrussian
03-16-05, 01:57 PM
I would take a look at Edelbrock's bolt on Port EFI for the TBI 350's, and then add a set of iron Vortec heads to it. That would get you nearly the performance of a LT1 without removing the engine from the car.

Tom
Good way to go if you have the money. It will cost you twice as much as a used LT1 would.

N0DIH
03-16-05, 06:09 PM
Agreed, but you don't need to change the ECM or the wiring, all comes with the kit. So it all depends on how technical you want to get in the car.

For me, I would go the LT1 route.

Also remember, the trans is not electronically controlled in 93 and older, so if you use an LT1 ECM, it will declare faults.

And is the 4L60 behind a TBI 350 as strong as a LT1 350?

The

caddycruiser
03-17-05, 05:35 PM
Hmm, some interesting points. Don't think we'll go that route anytime in this decade, since the car only has 99k on it and the TBI 350 is already so silky running and sounding (which is so strange to me for the type of engine it is... :hmm: ), and powerful.

Never know in the distant future though!

HotRodSaint
03-18-05, 01:39 PM
How about a: LT1 to LT4 hop-up (http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1927)


OK LT1 owners heres the deal, this is what you need. 1st the main kit, its availible from Pace performance for $2,300. This is the Heads , cam kit, Intake and all gaskets. 2nd A 58mm throttle body would get the most out of the kit, around $350. 3rd a good set of headers, this kit like flow, anywhere from $200 - $700 (depends on how nice you want'em). And last but not least a new PCM programing, prices vary shop around. So in all how does an extra $3,750 sound for 425 hp. And yes if you cant do the work well add in labor.

425HP doesn't sound to bad to me. :D


http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/1/web/289000-289999/289674_71_full.jpg
More Pic's Here. (http://www.cardomain.com/id/hotrodsaint)

I~LUV~Caddys8792
03-23-05, 09:48 PM
why not just do the LT4 Conversion kit for around 425hp costing about $3000??

I~LUV~Caddys8792
03-23-05, 09:49 PM
nevermind, i should read whats already been posted