: 1983 2 door Brougham 4.1L V8 water pump



caddy1983
08-06-13, 12:05 AM
After 12 years my water pump has final gone bad. Purchased from autozone. Good thing I have a lifetime warranty. here are my questions to you guys: what else can I change for my coolant system to be clean. I was planning on replacing the
thermostat(should I go dealer or aftermarket), maybe all belts and hoses,flushing the system and adding some cooling
tabs(how many do I
need). also my clutch fan( should I replace it. This has never been replaced car has 240,000 miles. If yes dealer or
aftermarket).Since I will be removing mostly the front of the engine parts, will this give me better access to replace my motor mounts? also will it be easier to replace my power steering pump(its been making noise for the last 4 years, not bad also
purchased at autozone about 12 years ago) what
else is located here( I know the vacuum pump(never replaced. is it time) I'm not sure if I have a smog pump and a fuel pump here in this area. any suggestions will be appreciated. Thanks

csbuckn
08-06-13, 10:23 AM
I'd replace the water pump, power steering pump, thermostat and check the radiator and lower hose. The motor mounts are a pain even with no motor in the car, good luck with those.

j2rossit
08-06-13, 01:52 PM
you need 1 sealant tab for every 2 quarts of fresh mixed coolant.

If the power steering pump is making noise, then it's definitely a good thing to replace while you've got it apart. but for that motor, everything other than the water pump isn't too difficult to get at.

The hoses and belts are always a good thing to consider replacing with fresh ones as you re-assemble.

The fuel pump is in the tank.

caddy1983
08-07-13, 12:16 AM
thanks guys any more suggestions or advice.

j2rossit
08-07-13, 09:12 AM
If you've done the job before, you probably already know but:

Leave the car on the ground. No need to jack it up for the water pump and your back will thank you.
You'll need some white grease for the seals.
You'll need a special tool (can borrow from a part store) to remove the power steering pump pulley.

carnut
08-07-13, 10:56 AM
Get the pipe and O rings that join the pump to the intake manifold new! They corrode and leak. I presume you know the trick on removing the coolant temp sensor to press the pipe forward into the water pump after the pump's on. On the power steering pump, did you get a pump and a pressure hose from AutoZone or just the pump? If you got a hose as well, I've had hoses cause noise. Make sure the Smog pump belt is real tight when you replace it. If loose, the alt. belt will slip.

caddy1983
08-08-13, 01:46 AM
hey carnut I dont know what you are talking about. can u be specific on all the suggestions you posted except the smog pump belt suggestion.
Thanks

carnut
08-08-13, 11:58 AM
The pipe I refer to is the water pump bypass pipe. It joins the pump at the intake manifold. At each end is an O ring. That pipe stays in the intake manifold when you pull off the pump usually. I never trust that pipe so I always get a new one with O rings. It inserts into the intake once the pump is off. You shove it in about halfway then with the coolant temp sensor removed, you insert a screwdriver in that hole and press the pipe forward to engage the water pump. I use wheel bearing grease on the O rings. That pipe comes with a locking sheet metal fork that centers the pipe between the pump body and intake manifold. The intake manifold hole can be corroded and needs to be cleaned well prior to install. regarding my suggestion on the pressure hose, I've seen a generic hose with less hose and more pipe and because of less hose, it can cause a buzzing noise in the system. Fought a Lincoln Mark 11 for a week before I got a Lincoln OEM hose to solve it! Also make sure the hose is positioned so as to not touch the cars frame or pump. It can buzz because its grounded (touching) metal.

caddy1983
08-11-13, 07:31 PM
Thanks carnut. you dont happen to have the part#s for the pipe and o-rings do you? I might end up doing this job myself. Since im in the area i
might just replace my power steering pump(making loud noise and replaced in 1999), belts, water hoses, thermostat, maybe the coolant temp. sensor(should i replace this or not. can I clean it up once i remove it. what do you suggest) and anything else you might think I should replace since im in
here. Is there a right up for this job. I also
need to replace my motor mounts. my car is getting to the point where it needs lots of TLC. HELP ME Thanks

j2rossit
08-12-13, 12:34 PM
From another thread:

Yeah I replaced the water pump on 2 HT-4100's last year (one on mine, then helped a buddy with his).
You need to get a special tool to remove the power steering pump pulley.
I might be missing a couple small things and the order might not be 100% right (you'll have to look at what makes sense in the engine bay)
You have to remove the fan shroud
drain the coolant
remove the fan/clutch assembly
remove the water pump pulley
remove the alternator
remove the harmonic balancer
un-bolt the A/C compressor
remove the bracket that connects the A/C and the alternator and air pump
loosen the vacuum pump (or take it's pulley off with the special tool)
remove the power steering pump pulley
disconnect Rad hoses
Remove the water pump

you'll then need to transfer over the timing gauge, pulley studs, and thermostat housing from the old pump to the new one.

The assembly is the reverse of what you did to take it apart (getting the alternator/AC/air pump bracket in can be a royal PITA).

Then you MUST tighten the Air pump to re-tighten the water pump belt. The adjuster on the Air pump is so hard to get at that I recommend you take it to a shop with a lift for that last step (only takes 5 mins with a lift). After I did the pump on my car, the belt came loose and I took it to a dealership to tighten it. It cost me $30 and they give it a free hand car wash while I drank their complementary coffee/pop and ate cookies.

The whole job is a huge job. It took me and my buddy 4 hours to do it in his driveway even with me knowing exactly what to do. (don't jack the car up since it can all be done with it on the ground and your back will thank you for leaving it down)

caddy1983
08-17-13, 10:10 PM
Thanks for all your help. Any luck with part # for the pipe and o-rings Carnut was refering to. I've been looking for a shop around my area
Norwalk, CA for this job. The average from 3 shops for the labor work in in the low $300 Does this sound right

carnut
08-18-13, 02:04 PM
The only way to know if the labor charge is in the ball park is to have them show you the "flat rate" time to do the job in the flat rate book. Then multiply their hourly labor rate. $300 here in Stockton at $110 an hour would be less than 3 hours. I would think it will take more time than that.

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That pipe should show in the factory service manual. I would hope the local Cad dealer would list it. Its a bypass pipe from the water pump to the intake manifold. A replacement water pump comes with the O rings to go on that pipe but 50% of the time, the pipe is very rusty where the O rings slip on. That's why I buy a new one prior to disassembly.

caddy1983
09-15-13, 10:40 PM
Hey carnut I know its been a while but finally getting all the parts to replace my water pump. I called the dealer and the bypass pipe is discontinued. I called pep boys and oreillys and they dont carry the part/cant find it. Do you have a place where I can purchase this part. Do you happen to have the part# and the exact name of the pipe? I might end up doing this job myself. Reason for this because I will install a new radiator
(i have a warranty) and the power sterring pump. Basically all my belts, radiator hoses and thermostats along with anything I can replace while im replacing my water pump will be replaced. I want to make sure this job will not need to be done again for the next 10 to 15 years. Hopefully my 4.1L
has those years left. Need help here. Thanks

carnut
09-16-13, 03:41 PM
The pipe is a Cadillac dealer only item. Your local dealer should be able to do a search for one at any Cad dealer. Cannt remember the part number. If the outer surface of your pipe is not pitted, it can be reused. Like I said its a 50/50 proposition. I used wheel bearing grease on mine to allow the O rings to slide easily into the intake manifold and allow it to be pushed forward into the water pump thru the coolant temp sensor hole. There should be a forked piece that slides down onto the pipe to verify the pipe is centered between the pump and intake manifold.

cadillaccruiser703
09-16-13, 09:56 PM
i hate those w/p tubes...good luck

caddy1983
09-21-13, 12:33 AM
anyone found a part# for the pipe? is a water pump by GMB a reputable company? I'm waiting for a factory service manual I purchased on ebay. Will this help me replace my pump and show me the pipe you guys are talking about

carnut
09-22-13, 03:42 PM
Yes the manual explains the pipe. This pipe is not needed if the pipe isn't rusty or pitted on the O ring surface. I remove the coolant sensor and slide the pipe into the manifold leaving space enough to pry it forward into the water pump. I use wheel bearing grease on the O rings.

charley95
09-22-13, 05:53 PM
While your at it you might want to have to radiator checked by a Rad. repair shop. It will save you a lot of headache to do it while your flushing cooling system. I would also use distilled water upon refill of anti-freeze. I'm surprised your radiator is still good after all these years. I had to replace mine years back in my 91 Brougham with a Modine brand which was the best after market available at the time. Too bad they got out of the Rad. business. Di-electric silicone grease works good on O-rings too. Napa has a good selection of those.

caddy1983
09-22-13, 11:48 PM
I have a lifetime warranty on my radiator at autozone. I might just replace the radiator and anything related to the cooling system. Need to make
sure I do this right so this can last another 10-15 years. Thanks

charley95
09-23-13, 10:00 AM
I have a lifetime warranty on my radiator at autozone. I might just replace the radiator and anything related to the cooling system. Need to make
sure I do this right so this can last another 10-15 years. Thanks

I wouldn't replace your existing rad. if there is nothing wrong with it. I typically flush my system every 3 yrs. I flush heater core,block & rad. and drain block before filling with fresh anti-freeze.

caddy1983
10-01-13, 12:28 AM
just received my factory shop manual and it doesn't say anything about the pipe and the o rings. The steps to remove the water pump seem very
***ue and simple. Is it really that simple to remove the pump. NEED help

j2rossit
10-02-13, 09:16 AM
See post #10 for the steps. Nothing overly complicated, just lots of work removing accessories.

Robin Banx
10-02-13, 04:16 PM
^^ If you have the 1983 GM Service Information manual, you will find the exploded diagram of your water pump and related parts in section 6D2 - 6 figure 6D2 - 9 The tube is called "adapter" and it shows the two large diameter "O" ring seal. This area is a right bastard to re install leak-free. Mine took me 6 months of fiddling around removing and re-sealing the thermostat housing including one session of Draw-filing the flat surfaces to guarantee a perfectly flat sealing surface. Be very careful with the jack screw belt tensioning adjusters (one on the a/c comp. and one on the alternator). The threaded blocks split very easily and are only available at wrecking yards as far as I know.

Cheers...........R.

carnut
10-02-13, 04:23 PM
The hardest part is getting the power steering pump pulley off with the proper pulley puller. Then reinstalling the pulley again with the proper tool.

Robin Banx
10-02-13, 06:18 PM
^^ I can't disagree with that.

R.

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^^ I can't disagree with that.

R.

caddy1983
05-12-14, 01:07 AM
need help replacing my water pump. Any helpful recommendations? Where to buy water pump(autozone,oreillys,pepboys). And what is a trusted and dependable company besides OEM? I see a lot on ebay for under $100. Anyone in the Norwalk/Cerritos, CA area who can help me here? Thanks OH!!! any write ups will help. From research the two orings when replacing the pump need to be installed correctly or you may find a leak. Any suggestions. Thank You

j2rossit
05-12-14, 01:15 AM
Your original thread on this job has lots of useful information:
http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/rwd-19xx-1984-deville-fleetwood-1985/342057-1983-2-door-brougham-4-1l.html

caddy1983
05-15-14, 01:03 AM
anyone in the norwalk/cerritos CA area who can give me a hand replacing my water pump. I'm willing to pay for your assistance. Thank you

Robin Banx
05-18-14, 09:13 PM
^^it will drive you nuts. My 83 (51,000 original miles) FWB lost its water pump through a seal failure 2 years ago. So I bought an aftermarket reman water pump and took the car to my repair shop to have it replaced. The shop rejected the reman pump saying that the body was so badly pitted that they would not install it. I got them another reman pump. Same verdict. The pump housing was unusable in their opinion. They asked me to get a new OEM pump which I did. Then there was the issue of the two large "O" rings and the tin coolant transfer tube. The tube was no longer available from GM so I had to use my original tube. The repair shop draw-filed the thermostat housing to ensure a proper seal, they carefully installed the OEM pump, thermostat housing, coolant transfer tube and "O" rings (Walt Disney would have been proud that a such a Mickey Mouse concept would have been used by the great GM organisation) and replaced the coolant. The pump and supporting GM designed junk weeped coolant for a year while the hapless shop tried and tried again to seal this mechanical fiasco under warranty. The weeping is finally down to a few drops per month which I can live with but trust me, this is not a "piece of cake" operation. Cost to me was well over $600.00 and well worth the money because psychiatric help for me had I tried to do it myself would have been in the thousands. Good luck to you........I hope you have better luck that I did...........

Cheers.........R

carnut
05-18-14, 11:54 PM
I just looked a Rockauto.com and they list a Cardone NEW water pump with by pass pipe included. Part number 55-11165. Doesn't show a picture of the by pass pipe though. The trick to this job being successful is verifying the hole this pipe fits into in the front of the intake manifold is NOT pitted or scored at all! This pipe is suspended by 2 large O rings on either end. If the manifold is pitted, the O ring wont seal. Depending on how long the cooling system has been neglected is relative to the amount of pitting found. If there is no practical way to repair the pitting, I would use black RTV sealant on this O ring as I inserted the pipe. Remember; remove the coolant temp sensor on the intake just above the pipe hole. Then insert the pipe with O rings installed back into the intake just far enough to just be able to insert a flat blade screwdriver behind it thru the sensor hole. I would use wheel bearing grease on the O ring that slides into the pump. Once the pump is on, then with the screwdriver, press the pipe forward to center it between the intake and water pump. If you had to coat the intake O ring with RTV, let it set over night. This job is NOT for the novice driveway mechanic.