: Wanted to clean EGR but what have those engineers done now



jsjag
07-28-13, 06:17 PM
Went to pull the EGR valve on my 95 Deville Coucours, should be simple right? Two bolts holding it on and away we go but nope. Some engineer decided to mount the fuel rail on top of the oine EGR mounting bolts. What!!!!!!

Really? Seriously? Will this simple 15 minute job turn into hours or am I missing something?

amunderdog
07-28-13, 06:35 PM
It probably looks totally different with the engine on a stand.
We always swore the engineers should be the first ones to work on there creations.

jsjag
07-28-13, 08:06 PM
Been reading about this matter. There may have been a recall or retrofit to the stainless fuel rail. I'm guessing that it was out of the realm of engineering to create a two part fuel rail attachment at the EGR that would allow removal from the EGR bolt. http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/images/icons/icon3.png

Engineering disasters cost we the consumer a lot of money and I consider this EGR arrangement to be a disaster.



It probably looks totally different with the engine on a stand.
We always swore the engineers should be the first ones to work on there creations.

Ranger
07-28-13, 09:59 PM
Nope, you're not missing anything. I can't recall for sure, but I though it was a bit easier after the recall was accomplished and the SS fuel rail was installed. You have had that done, right?

jsjag
07-28-13, 11:00 PM
We got the car in 07 and it had already had an engine replacement. If it is SS it is poor quality because I can see rust on the outside but maybe it is poor quality. Other than the engine transplant that the previous owner had done, I've only done tuneup stuff.

If there was a recall could it still be in effect? Is there a dangerous defect hazard that I don't know about. Sometimes things for as long as the life of the car. My attack seat belts in the Jaguar are warrantied for life.

If the recall still used the same method to attach the rail, I doubt if it is easier. If there is a lifetime recall I could call the local caddie dealer and maybe they can run the vin. It is a Calif. car and I am in the northeast.


Nope, you're not missing anything. I can't recall for sure, but I though it was a bit easier after the recall was accomplished and the SS fuel rail was installed. You have had that done, right?

Ranger
07-29-13, 11:56 AM
Recalls are safety related and I do not believe there is an expiration date. If your recall was done you will have a SS fuel rail. If not, it will be a black nylon rail (yellow arrow) running from injector to injector like the picture.


This diagram shows the individual nylon "rail" between injectors.

http://www.genmotorinfo.com/images/03/940701GM03-301.png

This is what the SS rail will look like.

http://www.genmotorinfo.com/images/03/040727GM03-344.png

RippyPartsDept
07-29-13, 12:41 PM
call any cadillac dealer and have them run your VIN through the warranty/recall system and it will show up if it is still out there

jsjag
07-29-13, 02:02 PM
The car is at work with my wife but I am fairly certain that I have the second picture with the SS rail.

But if I remember the supply lines look like those in the first picture and I definitely have the connector piece that fits over the EGR bolt.

I don't have a quick connect tool to loosen the fuel rail/supply lines but I can get one.   I'm just PO'd at the moment that I have to go through the extra work to remove the rail that IMHO is crazy. I have 6 cars in my house and I am always busy on them. Well make that 5 cars because two weeks ago the XJ40 engine seized and I have no idea why.

This I do know, I've had the EGR off every one of our cars (to clean them) except the Caddie and without an exception I had them removed in 15 minutes or less.


Recalls are safety related and I do not believe there is an expiration date. If your recall was done you will have a SS fuel rail. If not, it will be a black nylon rail (yellow arrow) running from injector to injector like the picture.


This diagram shows the individual nylon "rail" between injectors.

http://www.genmotorinfo.com/images/03/940701GM03-301.png

This is what the SS rail will look like.

http://www.genmotorinfo.com/images/03/040727GM03-344.png

Submariner409
07-29-13, 02:28 PM
The straight runs on the steel fuel rail are covered in a black plastic shield that incorporates the injector locks. Don't let the black plastic sway your view- the rails LOOK very different.

If the XJ-40 engine is anything like the old XJ-140 MC engine, the crank split in half at the center main bearing.

jsjag
07-29-13, 05:04 PM
I put a socket on the crank pulley nut and had a big breaker bar, that sucker would not budge! Had the car 13.5 years and got my money's worth but now I am jag-less. The first time in almost 19 years that I am jag-less.

I know that I saw rust (#00 steel wool would probably take off) on the outside of the rail and it has to be metal. IMHO it isn't the best grade of SS. I have a SS counter out of a commercial kitchen and I use it outside. It has been sitting outside for 30 years and there is only rust at one or two the weld spots.

I'll double check tonight when my wife gets home and post a picture.


The straight runs on the steel fuel rail are covered in a black plastic shield that incorporates the injector locks. Don't let the black plastic sway your view- the rails LOOK very different.

If the XJ-40 engine is anything like the old XJ-140 MC engine, the crank split in half at the center main bearing.

vincentm
07-29-13, 06:24 PM
Ive always like Jaguars

Ranger
07-29-13, 10:05 PM
The straight runs on the steel fuel rail are covered in a black plastic shield that incorporates the injector locks.
Not if it was a recall replacement. As I recall those where plain old shiny SS.

jsjag
07-29-13, 11:38 PM
Here is what my fuel rail looks like.

Submariner409
07-30-13, 10:30 AM
Not if it was a recall replacement. As I recall those where plain old shiny SS.

Yup ^^^ - Whole different critter from the 2000 and later rails. Live and learn.

maeng9981
07-30-13, 11:53 AM
I remember it was quite easy to shift that out of the stud.

Ranger
07-30-13, 11:57 AM
Jsjag, I tried to respond to post #13 but inadvertently edited it instead. :bang2: Sorry.
Anyway, the recall was performed on that car as you do in fact have the SS rail.

----------


Yup ^^^ - Whole different critter from the 2000 and later rails. Live and learn.

Only reason I new that Sub was because I had a '97 and had been through the recall.

jsjag
07-30-13, 12:00 PM
Last night I fogged the intake with SeaFoam, let it sit overnight.

My wife drove the car to work this morning and said that it smoked for about 1.5 miles but no illuminated CEL. Maybe it cleaned things enough that the EGR stem is working. I am sure it didn't clean the EGR as well as I do when I clen them.

Ranger
07-30-13, 12:03 PM
Seafoam is snake oil and won't do a thing for the EGR valve. Is it is sticking, the only way to clean it it so remove it and scrape the pintle valve and shaft.

vincentm
07-30-13, 02:11 PM
I need to come up with a fix in a can/bottle, i'll name it magic fix, yea that's it. And i'll ensure its at the checkout stand of every autoparts store . Then i'll be able to retire by 40.

jsjag
07-30-13, 02:16 PM
Maybe true --- the snake oil thing but something happened overnight. If the car thinks it is happier today, I jsut won't tell the Ack Ack. We call her Ack Ack --- Billy Joel song where he sings "bought a Cadillac Ack Ack Ack."

The guy that works PT at the parts store used to run the Olds/Caddie service dept, he is now at VW. Anyhow he said that they used to run GM Tec through and it did help but the GM Tec was used only in the worst instances. He is the one that suggested SeaFoam.


Seafoam is snake oil and won't do a thing for the EGR valve. Is it is sticking, the only way to clean it it so remove it and scrape the pintle valve and shaft.

stoveguyy
08-01-13, 11:16 AM
Thread is only 3 days old which is not long. I assume you have not attempted to unbolt fuel rail and lift it to extract egr? You could spend $100 on new egr but that's your call.

Caddydrummer67
08-03-13, 10:34 AM
Yeah, yours doesn't look exactly like mine on my '97 ETC, but I did mine, and it was quite easy. Just remove the screws holding the fuel rail down and then gently pop the rail and injectors out one by one starting close to the EGR and moving away as you go. Be careful, don't pull too hard, they should pop out fairly easily. Then you can pull the fuel rail up just enough to get to the EGR screw/nut. Also, I would stuff a rag or something down underneath the EGR to catch the nut in case you drop it down into engine bay oblivion. I learned this the hard way. Oh well, an extra trip to the hardware is the price you pay sometimes. The injectors should pop right back down when your done. There is actually a kind of "pop" sound when you get them re-seated correctly.
Might as well check the FPR while your at it. Pull the line from the side of it, if it drips fuel, you need a new one. If you change it out, make sure you release the fuel line pressure at the valve on the end of the rail first.

04GrandAmGT
08-07-13, 03:18 PM
in a one gallon jug put dex-cool into it then put those ACDelco Sealant tabs inthere shake it up and name it Dex-Fix.