: Longest Car: 1974-'76 Fleetwood Seventy-Five or 1927-'33 Bugatti?



Fleet
07-22-13, 08:27 PM
I started a thread about this subject before but I can't find it and I want to post an updated one.

I have several "Guinness Book of World Records" from years ago. Before the Internet was common. Looking through the 1991, 1989 and 1984 editions of that book, it has the "Bugatti Royale Type 41" listed as the largest/longest car. Only 6 were built.

A few things are confusing. For example, from the 1991 edition of the book, it says, "Of all cars produced for use...." "The 1927-'33 Bugatti Royale measures over 22 feet in length..." The 1984 edition says, "Of all cars produced for private road use." What about the stretch Cadillac and Lincoln Limousines? They were built for private road use, too.

Also, after researching on the web, it looks like that model of Bugatti was 252.0" inches long, exactly 21 feet and not "over 22 feet."

As some members here know, the 1974-'76 Cadillac Fleetwood Seventy-Five (both the 9-passenger sedan and limousine) were 252.2" long, or two-tenths of one inch longer than the "longest production car," the Bugatti. The 1989 and 1984 editions say the same thing.

Here are photos to compare... A Bugatti Royale Type 41 and my '76 limousine...

http://i43.tinypic.com/65bngj.jpg

http://i42.tinypic.com/2cqlnwh.jpg

bigm57ict
07-23-13, 10:21 AM
Perhaps the Bugatti has the longest wheelbase.

Faith76
07-23-13, 12:05 PM
The 59 Lincoln Continental Limo had the longest unibody at just shy of 19 feet.

MoistCabbage
07-23-13, 12:44 PM
I wonder if the measurement you found, or the measurement Guinness used, includes the distance the wheels/tires stick past the front of the Bugatti.

Fleet
07-23-13, 04:09 PM
I wonder if the measurement you found, or the measurement Guinness used, includes the distance the wheels/tires stick past the front of the Bugatti.
Overall length means bumper-to-bumper, the measurement taken at the longest part of the car at each end. Which would include the distance the wheels/tires stick out.

MoistCabbage
07-23-13, 04:12 PM
Yes, I know what it means, but apparently Guinness or "the web" missed something.

Fleet
07-23-13, 04:38 PM
Perhaps the Bugatti has the longest wheelbase.
It may, but "longest car" means overall length, not wheelbase. For example, my '69 Fleetwood Brougham is 228.5" long (19 feet). I don't say it's 11.1 feet long (133" wheelbase) because that is not the overall length. The Guinness editors didn't specify production cars. There were a few super-stretch Cadillac limos built in the '70s and '80s which had a very long wheelbase.

Fleet
07-23-13, 10:39 PM
Yes, I know what it means, but apparently Guinness or "the web" missed something.
Well, the web lists wheelbase at 169.3" and overall length at 252.0".

MoistCabbage
07-23-13, 10:44 PM
Hmm, sure doesn't look like 6 feet of difference between wheel base and length in the picture.

Fleet
07-23-13, 11:54 PM
Hmm, sure doesn't look like 6 feet of difference between wheel base and length in the picture.
No, it doesn't. Maybe they got the wheelbase wrong, too!

77CDV
07-24-13, 03:12 AM
I'd give it to the Caddy.

70eldo
07-24-13, 04:44 AM
Maybe because the 9 passenger Cadillac was done by a coach worker it doesn't count as a production car?

Fleet
07-24-13, 05:39 AM
Maybe because the 9 passenger Cadillac was done by a coach worker it doesn't count as a production car?
With only 6 of those Bugatti's built, the Fleetwood Seventy-Five was much more of a production car. They were a limited-production car. What wasn't a production car would be the '60s and '70 Lincoln and Imperial Limousines because they were not built by Chrysler or Ford/Lincoln. The Fleetwood Seventy-Fives were built by Cadillac, at Plant 21.

Remember, too, that in the Guinness Book of World Records, it doesn't specify "production." It says, "Of all cars produced for road use..." I have a feeling that the editors were not car guys! Especially when they said the "Over 22 feet long" for the Bugatti.

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I'd give it to the Caddy.
It's very close and almost impossible to tell by looking at photos. But, yes, going by what I've researched, the '74-'76 Fleetwood Seventy-Five does seem to be the longest production car built. When I posted the same topic at another forum, someone mentioned the Mercedes 600 Pullman. Those were 246" long. Then another person said what about those Russian limousines? Well, assuming they were production cars (which I doubt, they seemed to be for government use only), it's close, but they came in at 249.2.

Incidentally, the '73 Cadillac Fleetwood Seventy-Five was exactly 250" long, the '72 was 248.9" and the '71 was 247.3".

77CDV
07-24-13, 05:31 PM
The increasing length is due to the 5mph crash logs....er....bumpers.

Fleet
07-24-13, 09:12 PM
Yes, it's definitely the bumpers/logs.

MoistCabbage
07-25-13, 07:00 AM
That's part of the reason I don't like '73-'76's as much as '71/'72's. :nono:

'72 got rub strips, which was acceptable.

'73 got the government bumpers, and those goofy looking rubber triangles on the lower half of the tail lights. Much less acceptable.

The vertical tail lights disappeared in '74, and that kind of ruined the rear of these cars for me.

Fleet
07-25-13, 04:11 PM
Each year had their good and bad points. The low point for fuel mileage was 1973-'74. The '75-'76 had the super-smooth 500-cu-in engine. My '69 Fleetwood Brougham has rub strips (and the high-compression 472-cu-in engine).

Also, for the Fleetwood Seventy-Five, the rear seat was not available in crushed velour until the 1973 model year. 1975 was the first year for electronic ignition. And on and on.

Fleet
08-27-13, 06:57 PM
Maybe because the 9 passenger Cadillac was done by a coach worker it doesn't count as a production car?
I checked the door sill on my '76 limousine. It says "Body by Fisher, interior by Fleetwood." Just like the Fleetwood Brougham.

For an update, I posted the same type of thread on another forum which has an "automobile" category. A lot of varied opinions on that forum. To my surprise, not one reply to my thread. Probably some did their own research and came to the same conclusion!

orconn
08-29-13, 08:32 PM
The Cadillac series 75 limousine was considered a "commercial" chassis vehicle and the Bugatti Royale was considered a chassis for personal use. Even thought the Cadillac may have been owned and driven for "personal" use by their owners does not change the car's status as a commercial chassis. There were various body styles fitted to the Bugatti Royale chassis, each of them for private owner use only and thus not for commercial use. I am sure it is this distinction that makes the Bugatti the longest production car as opposed to a chassis used for commercial vehicles such as limos, hearses, ambulances and flower cars.

Stretch limousines were built on post production chassis, i.e. lengthened by concessionaires who adapted the cars for specialized commercial use. Again just because a car of this type may have been privately owned does not make a non-commercial type vehicle.

Fleet
09-13-13, 07:05 PM
Good, points, orconn, but the requirement (according to Guinness) was "of all cars licensed for road use."

Also, about 2,000 Cadillac Fleetwood Seventy-Fives were built each year, throughout the '60s and '70s. That added up to over 30,000 examples sold over the years compared to only 6 Bugattis. The Bugatti should be classified as an "exotic."

As the Cadillac brochure said, "The Cadillac Limousine is still the only production American car designed and built as a limousine." Anyone, with the appropriate amount of funds could easily walk into a Cadillac dealer and buy a Cadillac Fleetwood Seventy-Five. Unlike a hearse, ambulance or flower car, the Seventy-Fives were 7-9 passenger cars (depending on the year). Also, they differ from those other vehicles because you didn't normally see a millionaire being chauffeured around in a hearse, ambulance or flower car!

So I definitely consider the Series Seventy-Five a production car... they were included in the regular Cadillac brochures (the other professional cars were not), they had a set base price, and many thousands were sold. The hearse and those other models also had a longer wheelbase than the Fleetwood Seventy-Five (151.5" vs 157.0"). As mentioned before, the door sill plate on my '76 Limousine does say "Body by Fisher, interior by Fleetwood." The owner's manual for my '76 has the commerical chassis listed separate from the Fleetwood Seventy-Five.

Another difference: The Fleetwood Seventy-Fives were sometimes mentioned or included in car magazine's "New Car Issue." In fact, I actually have two road tests of the Cadillac Limousine... a 1960 and 1971. (Ironically, they both ran an 18.1 second 1/4 mile.)

I did an Internet search for "longest production car" and the 1974-'76 Cadillac Fleetwood Seventy-Five is in the results.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_automotive_superlatives

disturbio
09-17-13, 02:57 PM
I dont know.... but that bugatti is baddass

orconn
09-19-13, 11:38 PM
A lot of people other than "millionaires" used to ride in those Cadillac Fleetwood 75's, remember the vast majority of them were owned and operated by Carey Car Service and were used to tote executives and others to and from airports. I rode in 1970's versions on many occasions. Until recently there places has been taken by Lincoln TC's, which are still a dime a dozen in around major metropolitan areas. Many corporations owned them for use by senior executives.

I had the use of the 1972 Fleetwood 75 that was owned by a company I worked for in the seventies. To be honest they weren't really very special just long and big, the only real big difference was the chauffeur, which came in really handy when making meetings around L.A.

Fleet
09-20-13, 08:21 PM
Orconn, yes, the Fleetwood Seventy-Fives had other uses besides millionaires riding in them.

To me, they are very special. Not only are they long and big, but the ride was one notch smoother than the Fleetwood Brougham. With the limousine model, the partition window comes in handy... I keep mine up and when the A/C is on, the front compartment cools of quickly. The rear radio controls come in handy as do the jump seats when I occasionally take extra people for a ride. And the landau roof and bars were only available on the Fleetwood Seventy-Five.

Even Cadillac said, in their 1976 brochure, "Very special cars for people interested in luxury, in an executive size."

Here are a few photos of the exclusive rear compartment of the limousine and one exterior photo...

http://i42.tinypic.com/3028lyd.jpg

http://i43.tinypic.com/10ek51u.jpg

http://i41.tinypic.com/2qk0xp5.jpg

http://i43.tinypic.com/2iasqhy.jpg

http://i40.tinypic.com/2n8ajox.jpg

talismandave
09-20-13, 11:12 PM
In my book that is about as special as any automobile I have ever seen. :thumbsup:

Thank God I have so seldom been in one I have not become jaded to their lures. I hope I never do.

Fleet
09-22-13, 02:21 AM
In my book that is about as special as any automobile I have ever seen. :thumbsup:

Thank God I have so seldom been in one I have not become jaded to their lures. I hope I never do.
Yes, they can be addictive!

Another Cadillac I've always liked is the... Fleetwood Talisman! I like all three years, 1974-'76, but if I was shopping for one, it would be the 1974 or 1975 because in my state, a '76 would need the smog check, which can be a BIG pain to go through. So, a '74 or '75, in triple dark blue (preferred) or triple black.

A friend owns a '76 Fleetwood Brougham d'Elegance and it has the very soft seats which are similar to the Talisman, except it's not crushed velour. I've rode in it several times. The seats are so comfortable, I didn't want to get out of the car! (We went for a ride into the local mountains.)

Here are a two interior shots...

http://i40.tinypic.com/wje7nq.jpg

http://i39.tinypic.com/ff8eon.jpg

talismandave
09-23-13, 02:19 AM
Those are great seats!
The covering on them while not as eye catching as the Talisman velour, is much nicer to live with. Easier to slide in and out of and wears like iron.