: Mobil 1 Synthetic Oil



JOENH
09-29-03, 08:22 PM
Whats all the hullaballoo about M1 in the Northstar??? I used Mobil 1 from day one in my 91 Continental (Bought it with 12K mileage). This is the worst car I have ever owned in 43 years of driving. Replaced every front and rear brake, hydraulics, motor mts, air bags, alternators, any many other components!, at least twice!! The motor has just turned 180K +. No smoke, runs like a top, uses about a quart of oil every 1600 miles. I changed the oil every 6K (As I feel oils are better these days then when I was hotrodding back in the 50's and 60's when I used to do the every 3K routine myself). I believe my 99 Caddy warranty book recommends a regular oil change every 7500 miles. I own a 99 Seville which I absolutely love. It just turned 48K. I have followed the 6K M1 oil change on the Caddie. I do not have one oil spot on garage floor. She doesn't smoke. She goes about 1500 miles before needing a quart of oil. Should I be worried!!!

jonrodman
09-29-03, 11:15 PM
Whats all the hullaballoo about M1 in the Northstar??? I used Mobil 1 from day one in my 91 Continental (Bought it with 12K mileage). This is the worst car I have ever owned in 43 years of driving. Replaced every front and rear brake, hydraulics, motor mts, air bags, alternators, any many other components!, at least twice!! The motor has just turned 180K +. No smoke, runs like a top, uses about a quart of oil every 1600 miles. I changed the oil every 6K (As I feel oils are better these days then when I was hotrodding back in the 50's and 60's when I used to do the every 3K routine myself). I believe my 99 Caddy warranty book recommends a regular oil change every 7500 miles. I own a 99 Seville which I absolutely love. It just turned 48K. I have followed the 6K M1 oil change on the Caddie. I do not have one oil spot on garage floor. She doesn't smoke. She goes about 1500 miles before needing a quart of oil. Should I be worried!!!

If you are asking if you should be worried because it does not leak or smoke, then you need to spend some time with a shrink. I hate to break the news to you, but cars are not supposed to leak or smoke. If you are not sure, just take it back to the dealer and tell them that you have a problem. Your problem is that there is not anything dripping out of the car, and there is not any smoke coming out of the back.
If you need leaks and smoke, they you should have purchased a Hyundai.

I use Mobil 1 in all my cars and don't have any engine problems. I am guilty of practicing the extended oil interval theory. Good or Bad, it is working for me so far.

Keep the mop and mask handy. You may need them within the next 300,000 miles.

Jon
96STS

JOENH
09-30-03, 01:14 PM
If you are asking if you should be worried because it does not leak or smoke, then you need to spend some time with a shrink. I hate to break the news to you, but cars are not supposed to leak or smoke. If you are not sure, just take it back to the dealer and tell them that you have a problem. Your problem is that there is not anything dripping out of the car, and there is not any smoke coming out of the back.
If you need leaks and smoke, they you should have purchased a Hyundai.

I use Mobil 1 in all my cars and don't have any engine problems. I am guilty of practicing the extended oil interval theory. Good or Bad, it is working for me so far.

Keep the mop and mask handy. You may need them within the next 300,000 miles.

Jon
96STS
Jon, tnx for your understanding reply. My question was not geared to the use of M1 in my Northstar (I'm comfortable with the oil!!!), but more to the auto technocrats in these columns who are having fits with the use of M1 into Northstars! I have read too many postings as such.

jonrodman
09-30-03, 01:23 PM
Jon, tnx for your understanding reply. My question was not geared to the use of M1 in my Northstar (I'm comfortable with the oil!!!), but more to the auto technocrats in these columns who are having fits with the use of M1 into Northstars! I have read too many postings as such.

I agree, For all the others who don't like Mobil 1, they are free to do whatever they like. I think Mobil 1 is one of the best oils. It is not magic, just a very good oil. It actually is oil. It is not teflon, it is not particles of graphite, it is oil (hydrocarbon chains). I also think the Northstar engine is one of the best engines. Why not put the best oil in the best engine?

elwesso
09-30-03, 06:49 PM
If you are on a tight budget, another good choice is valvoline SynPower........ Their detergent pacakge is a little better than M1..... I use only valvoline products in my car........

I really hate to see people go extended periods without changing the oil.......! What makes you think you can go longer..... Sure, the oil may LAST that long, but its so chuck full of crap that its still doing harm.... Just because it doesnt smoke doesnt mean its not wearing internally.....! IF you want to have a high mileage engine running good, regular oil changes BELOW 6000 is key....... But if you dont care, then thats OK too.......

OIL IS CHEAP!! REPLACE IT!!!

jonrodman
10-01-03, 01:15 AM
If you are on a tight budget, another good choice is valvoline SynPower........ Their detergent pacakge is a little better than M1..... I use only valvoline products in my car........

I really hate to see people go extended periods without changing the oil.......! What makes you think you can go longer..... Sure, the oil may LAST that long, but its so chuck full of crap that its still doing harm.... Just because it doesnt smoke doesnt mean its not wearing internally.....! IF you want to have a high mileage engine running good, regular oil changes BELOW 6000 is key....... But if you dont care, then thats OK too.......

OIL IS CHEAP!! REPLACE IT!!!

Hi Sipes,

I agree. I appreciate the design and quality of the STS and plan on maintaining it as well as possible. I expect that it will go a long time without any big problems. I anticipate regular oil changes. This car was a fixer-upper and now it is almost completely fixed up again. I intend to keep it that way. I am sure most of the people on this forum are interested in keeping their Cadillacs running perfectly and avoiding any surprise repair bills.

Jon
96STS

cadfan
10-01-03, 01:49 AM
I have seen alot more cads switching over to the syn. oils. I have seen no more problems running the syn. than conven. oils. If the engine is going to leak, burn, or consume oil- which northstats do- then the oil wont matter.

JOENH
10-01-03, 12:32 PM
Tnx for the info guys. As far as the comment on oil change frequency, I guess I can only say that it's based on my years of using the pre-synthetic oils. In the old days, regular detergent 6K oil was dark, heavy and dirty to the look. When I change M1 at 6K, it looks and feels like I changed it the previous week. Granted, there may be as many particles floating around in it, but it looks cleaner.

JJhomer83
10-01-03, 01:27 PM
Tnx for the info guys. As far as the comment on oil change frequency, I guess I can only say that it's based on my years of using the pre-synthetic oils. In the old days, regular detergent 6K oil was dark, heavy and dirty to the look. When I change M1 at 6K, it looks and feels like I changed it the previous week. Granted, there may be as many particles floating around in it, but it looks cleaner.

Would anyone recommend putting synthetic in a 4.9L with 70k miles????

elwesso
10-05-03, 03:58 PM
Its your call...... I probably wouldnt.......

You could also try a synthetic blend....... I think valvoline makes one, I cant remember.......

CBOYLE
10-10-03, 09:29 AM
Tnx for the info guys. As far as the comment on oil change frequency, I guess I can only say that it's based on my years of using the pre-synthetic oils. In the old days, regular detergent 6K oil was dark, heavy and dirty to the look. When I change M1 at 6K, it looks and feels like I changed it the previous week. Granted, there may be as many particles floating around in it, but it looks cleaner.

i changed my 1989 riviera at 80k over to mobil 1 car now has 230k no problems.

i also use mobil 1 since new in
1. 1999 cadillic sls 31k
2. 2001 cadillac dts 19k
3 sears lawn mower 5 years old
4. sears snow blower 7 years old

i think it is the best oil!
using a synthetic blend does not make sence to me (savings minimal)
just my two cents
charlie

JJhomer83
10-10-03, 09:33 AM
I put synthetic in my moms van about a week ago just to test it out before i go with my car. Suprisingly it runs great. I think i am going to try it in my car. Ill keep you updated with the results. any suggestions on brand????

CBOYLE
10-10-03, 10:44 AM
I put synthetic in my moms van about a week ago just to test it out before i go with my car. Suprisingly it runs great. I think i am going to try it in my car. Ill keep you updated with the results. any suggestions on brand????

i use only mobil 1 10w 30w in everything. readily available.
walmart in my area carrier 5 quart jug containers for about $17.00.
nice of you to test in moms car FIRST.
good luck
charlie

JJhomer83
10-10-03, 10:56 AM
i use only mobil 1 10w 30w in everything. readily available.
walmart in my area carrier 5 quart jug containers for about $17.00.
nice of you to test in moms car FIRST.
good luck
charlie

Well of course I am going to test her car first its a lease and its an 03. When ever i want to try something like that i put it in her van or my dad and i have a beater that we use to test things on.

ljklaiber
10-10-03, 03:27 PM
This oil thing never goes away , so I will post results of a test on SuperFlow Dyno 3 years ago, (I am retired now ..).

Competition Engine #49..#355 CI Chev Smalblock.(.030 overbore, Steel crank, 6 inch rods and JE pistons).

Engine runin initial light torque load..(30 Wt Kendall GT1)

Change oil and Filter and Cut filter to examine for bearing material...Check out OK.

First power runs are with Havoline 30 wt.........baseline 475 HP

Change heads for 1 point increase in CR and set timing to 40 degrees
(Havoline 30 wt) 503 HP at 700 RPM

Change headers and tighten Valve lash for more cam duration
(505 HP at 7000RPM)

Change to Synergyn 0-20 rcing synthetic oil
(503 HP at 7000)

Change to Mobil 1 5-30) 505 HP at 7000)

Change oiland filter aagain to Amsoil....502 at 7000)

Check valve lash..(OK) change oil and filter and refill with Kedall GT1 30wt...........(506 Hp at 7000)

Result

The only difference in the oils is in the initial COST!


ljk

JJhomer83
10-10-03, 04:16 PM
I am not worried about the power difference in my car for different types of oil. Im more worried about the condition of the engine. Will the synthetic get more life than conventional.

CBOYLE
10-10-03, 05:01 PM
I am not worried about the power difference in my car for different types of oil. Im more worried about the condition of the engine. Will the synthetic get more life than conventional.

230k on my riviera is proof enough for me.
runs like a top does not burn a drop of oil!
mobil 1 READILY available. you can run to walmart pep boys or just about any auto parts store and quickly pick up what you need.
i have read this AMSOIL may be better but not convient for ME to purchase.
you can go on and on about oil. synthetic or regular.
sometimes just a personal choice! (i have shared my experience with mobil 1)
whatever you decide
good luck
charlie

elwesso
10-10-03, 09:14 PM
Ive only heard good things about synthetic castrol........

DONT THINK BY SWITCHING TO SYNTHETIC YOU CAN EXTEND OIL CHANGE INTERVAL.......

Also, with mobil 1, its 30 weights seem to be a little on the thin side (which might be why it leaks)....... I suggest using a 40 weight mobil one......

CBOYLE
10-11-03, 09:03 AM
never saw mobil 1 (synthetic) in a 10w 40w
(castrol the worst synthetic on market)
i do not extend change intervals.
amen for me
charlie

STSGUY
10-27-03, 10:22 AM
In my 99' STS owner's manual, it states that 5-30 weight can be used on temps lower than 60 degrees on your next oil chg. and lower temps in general.

To me, the Mobil 1 10-30 will be perfect in this application for my car, esp for the winter months because of the lighter weight synthetic oil is.

I use M-1 in all my stuff and have had nothing but positive results and no leakage when I used it in a brand new Acura 3.2 Type-S from the factory.

STSGUY


Ive only heard good things about synthetic castrol........

DONT THINK BY SWITCHING TO SYNTHETIC YOU CAN EXTEND OIL CHANGE INTERVAL.......

Also, with mobil 1, its 30 weights seem to be a little on the thin side (which might be why it leaks)....... I suggest using a 40 weight mobil one......

zonie77
10-27-03, 02:58 PM
I think the hullabaloo about synthetic is similar to the original hullabaloo about detergent oil in the 60's. Not that I remember that!
If the OEM's would give a different service interval for synthetics you'd see them jump in usage.
There are several factors in recommended interval, Usage, mileage, dust, condensation. Even though synthetic doesn't break down as fast I think it has similar limits for dirt(filter is the same) and moisture. If you knew your vehicles usage was optimum you could run the 7500mi between changes but I think few of us fall in that category. For example, the whole state of Arizona is considered severe usage with the short change interval.
We may see the interval change if synthetic is used with certain high capacity oil filters otherwise my feeling is don't extend the change interval too much.
Just my 2cents

elwesso
10-27-03, 03:54 PM
I agree........!

Eldyfig
10-29-03, 09:03 AM
Well, here is a vote for conventional. Valvoline all the way :thumbsup: . I have had my Eldy for 1 yr. now. I changed the oil and put in Valv the first week I had it. Using the oil life monitor and chaging oil @ 15-20% life left, I usually get 4500 miles per change. Considering the price of the oil and my time, this is fine.

Plus, there is not a lick of oil seepage on the bottom of this smooth Eldy :cool: with 102k.

Night Wolf
10-29-03, 11:02 PM
Well, when I first got my car, it had 79,917 miles on the 4.9 (never forget that number, it's always in my head) Anyway, in another 350 miles I will have put 5k miles on the car :eek: in about 2 months :eek: :eek:

lol, anyway, when I did my first oil change I switched to Mobil 1 10W-30.... at first I was "loosing" a quart every 1k miles, then every 500 miles, then every 200 miles, and now it stopped, I guess synthetic had to find it's way in som eplaces or something.......

I will change my oil every 5k miles..... according to the oil life monitor, right now I have 9% life left, either way, 350 more miles and the oil get's changed..... I use AC Delco filters, but since I already bought the oil (on sale, 6 quarts for $23) I may go with a aK&N oil filter.... $10 vs. $4 or so......

I like the synthetic, if anything, it makes me feel better, I run the engine hard, and want it to have the best oil it can.

mcowden
10-30-03, 03:02 PM
So a little more information on the topic...

Conventional motor oils are comprised of refined petroleum base oil stocks combined with refined petroleum detergents. The downside of refined petroleum products is that the refinement process is imperfect. For example, in a conventional oil labeled as multi-viscosity 10W-30, a certain percentage of the base stocks and detergent package is significantly outside the parameters of 10W-30, either lighter (like gasoline) or heavier (like paraffin wax). The lighter stuff probably burns off fairly quickly. The heavier stuff is probably what turns into gum/varnish deposits inside the engine. The detergents do a pretty good job of keeping this to a minimum, but it still happens to some small degree. Because of the heavier molecules, conventional oils may not flow as well in cold weather conditions, and in hot weather conditions they may become too thin. Standards and regulations define to what degree this can happen for each grade and specification of motor oil. So the number you see on the bottle might be best described as an "average" weight/viscosity.

Synthetic motor oils are comprised of chemically-created base oil stocks combined with some kind of detergent package. Some oils use chemically-created detergents, others use refined petroleum detergents. The base stocks and detergents are artificially created rather than refined from crude oil, and the consistency of their weight and viscosity is almost exactly what is labeled on the bottle. There are comparatively few or no molecules lighter or heavier than the rated viscosity. For this reason, synthetic oils don't tend to turn thicker in cold weather or thinner in hot weather. They stay more closely within the parameters of their weight/viscosity rating. Because there are fewer thinner particles, less of the oil will burn off, and conversely, less of the heavier particles will turn into gum/varnish. The exact contents of synthetic oils are not usually labeled well on the packages. If a synthetic oil says it uses synthetic base stocks and synthetic detergent packages, it's probably a higher quality overall than one that uses synthetic base stock with petroleum-based detergents.

So the argument can be made that synthetic motor oils are technically superior in their lubrication characteristics than conventional motor oils. But did the manufacturer of your particular vehicle design the engine with the idiosyncrasies of conventional motor oil in mind? Did they expect higher- and lower-than-rated molecules to burn off or turn into sludge? Did they compensate for it in the engine design? Would the lack of those particles cause some other problem down the road? I don't know the answer, and I doubt it's really worth trying to find out.

As for drain intervals, conventional oils will definitely break down and offer less protection sooner than synthetic oils. Amsoil, a high quality, high price synthetic, claims you can extend your drain intervals to 15,000 miles or more if you also use a premium oil filter such as an Amsoil filter. They are careful to note that not all synthetic motor oils should be used with extended drain intervals, and that you should follow the manufacturer's recommendation. I have never heard of anyone using synthetic oil complain of leaks or excessive oil consumption, but that's not to say it doesn't happen. You just have to go from personal experience or ask the manufacturer if their engine design is intended to compensate for the characteristics of conventional motor oil. Good luck getting that answer. The Northstar engines do tend to consume more oil than most other engines. A discussion in another forum suggests that the hash pattern used on the cylinder bore of Northstar engines is comparatively aggressive, and this was done to retain more oil on the cylinder wall to better lubricate the piston rings and maintain a higher compression ratio with less "blowby." I can't verify one way or the other, but that would probably explain the higher oil consumption. Another argument is that crud tends to build up around the rings and it tends to "pull" more oil into the combustion area through wicking and reduction of surface tension, and that this can be cleaned by Cadillac mechanics or by any number of do-it-yourself methods.

In my opinion, it's probably best to use a balanced approach. I usually use Valvoline DuraBlend semi-synthetic 10W-30 at about $2.25/quart every 5,000 miles in my '96 SLS and replace the filter every other oil change with the highly-rated Amsoil SDF64 oil filter at about $11.50 each. Yes, it's higher cost than an oil change with conventional motor oil and a standard filter, but with synthetic oil at $4.00+ per quart and the question of whether or not it's really better for the engine based on its design, I think the potential for added protection without as much worry about design characteristics is worth the middle-of-the-road cost. Of course, I'm always open to other suggestions or recommendations as long as there are some additional facts or corrections involved, but I don't spend all my time analyzing my oil needs. I just want my SLS engine to run well long into the future.

My SLS has just over 78,000 miles right now, and it has consumed a full quart of oil about every 1500-2000 miles since I got it at 34,000 miles. I've tried Amsoil full synthetic and Valvoline conventional oils and the consumption doesn't change. It has never leaked any oil onto the ground or into the transmission fluid or coolant, and I don't see any unusual amount of oil anywhere under the hood or under the car. It must be burning trace amounts over time, so I'm guessing either the "aggressive hash pattern" or "dirty rings" argument is true and I'm not worried about either one. In the winter, I switch to the same Valvoline DuraBlend semi-synthetic in 5W-30 instead.

Just my opinion. As usual, specifications subject to change, plus taxes, title, license, and insurance, pending credit approval, your mileage may vary. Good luck!

Michael Cowden :wave:


Whats all the hullaballoo about M1 in the Northstar??? I used Mobil 1 from day one in my 91 Continental (Bought it with 12K mileage). This is the worst car I have ever owned in 43 years of driving. Replaced every front and rear brake, hydraulics, motor mts, air bags, alternators, any many other components!, at least twice!! The motor has just turned 180K +. No smoke, runs like a top, uses about a quart of oil every 1600 miles. I changed the oil every 6K (As I feel oils are better these days then when I was hotrodding back in the 50's and 60's when I used to do the every 3K routine myself). I believe my 99 Caddy warranty book recommends a regular oil change every 7500 miles. I own a 99 Seville which I absolutely love. It just turned 48K. I have followed the 6K M1 oil change on the Caddie. I do not have one oil spot on garage floor. She doesn't smoke. She goes about 1500 miles before needing a quart of oil. Should I be worried!!!

ljklaiber
10-30-03, 04:16 PM
Mobil 1 never ending!!!!!

If ya love it. buy it! No one ever mentions the importance of heat in the valve springs. ALL power is in the heads and cams and springs. No synthetic has 'cling' properties that are better than racing grade base oils.
Since the rush to synth in NASCAR, valve spring coolers and spray bars in Valvecovers are common.
As a member of the Valvoline race team 1979 to 1983, we won a few races on 40 wt racing Valvoline, with no appreciable loss of valve spring pressure.

Trick of the week BS is getting out of hand. A clean supply of oil that has the ability to heatsoak and lubricate is still the most important. If you want to pay for the synth...Do it!
Our cars were 3700 lbs and crude, but we ran open motors with no restrictor crap like today. 8200 RPM on 40 wt Valvoline. 650 HP

No failures due to lubricants.

What RPM are you turning?

irebroff
01-02-06, 03:55 PM
It`s very interesting to read your opinions about motor oil for a german guy.

In Germany motor oil is very expensive, about 10-20 Dollars a quart. We don`t change oil before 10000 miles, new cars 35000 miles with special oil, price about 35 Dollar a quart.

I think best oil is 5W-30 Castrol every 10000 miles and the best oil filter you can get!

Only if you want to change from mineralic oil to sythetic oil you have to change oil after 3000 miles first time; the synthetic oil cleans the complete motor room and this dirt you have in the oil and the filter.

dkozloski
01-02-06, 04:46 PM
The major cause of failures of valve springs in the consumers world is acid etching due to the accumulation of moisture in the oil. The adoption of positive crankcase ventilation rather that the old road draft tube fifty years ago was the great leap forward in this area. If you pull your dipstick and find moisture droplets or rust, your driving conditions/habits are overpowering even this innovation. Stop and go driving is a major culprit.

cl1986
03-07-06, 09:54 PM
Hmm, why synthetic, isnt 300k miles enough, i think i will be bored of the car by then, dont u think??

JohnnyO
03-08-06, 10:22 AM
True, and how many seats will you wear out in that time? LOL.

Tailfin
03-08-06, 11:28 AM
I think the more important question here is whether a synthetic (or which brand) oil will keep down engine wear. This has been mentioned, but danced around. I'm not saying I know the answer, but I seriously doubt that any oil will decrease the amount of oil an engine uses. If an engine uses a noticable amount of oil, then it's probably already got wear that causes that loss. Once that's done, I don't think it makes a good gauge for what oil to use. The oil is supposed to stop that from happening, not repair it.

Now I'm not sure how to go about testing oils, but I have a few ideas. Valve train noise (I think that's what it was anyway :tongue2: ), I noticed on my 85, would disappear when I freshly changed the oil, and return within a week thanks to the "Have Towed 4100," I'm betting. Perhaps someone with this problem could see how long that takes to go away with different oils... I have a 90 now...maybe one of you with one of them thar fancy shmancy oil life indicators could do a controlled experiment. Since that supposedly monitors several very relevant factors of engine operation, and is not subject to the massive advertising and probably some deception war between oil companies, perhaps it would be best for judging the oil it's fed. If the car is subjected to virtually the same driving, one could see which brand takes the oil life indicator the longest to raise the change oil flag.

JohnnyO
03-10-06, 10:04 AM
The only way to know for sure is to get a used oil analysis, or do a couple of them comparing different oils over the same number of miles each to see how the oils hold up and what the wear metal ppm's are. I use Blackstone Labs.
They will send you a few collection bottles for free, you send some old oil back along with a data sheet and a check for $20. For what it's worth, I got a UOA recently on my dad's '04 DeVille, Mobil 1 5w-30 that he ran for 11,200 miles and the OLM was down to 4%, and the results were very very good. Note that this engine does not require synthetic oil. A dino oil would have been okay but based on past experience I'd say the Mobil 1 was better. Also Northstars aren't real hard on the oil because they hold 7.5 quarts.

www.blackstone-labs.com