: Bose subwoofer--Is it full range?



cjp85
02-27-05, 10:30 PM
I think I remember a thread from a while back about the Bose subwoofer being a full range speaker. I ran a search and didn't find it. Anyways, I would like to know if this is the best place to tap for an aftermarket sub. A lot of people who look at my set up see that I tapped at the factory sub and say I should tap the rear door speaker for a better signal because the sub signal is probably not full range. I think my setup sounds great, but if I can get more out of it I wouldn't hesitate not to. Anyone know the answer to this and if not how can I find out if it is? Thanks guys.

CTS Orlando
02-27-05, 11:03 PM
Subwoofers by nature are not full range. They normally procude frequencies 180hz and below. I prefer to cross over my subs at 100hz and below. It is true that the recomendation is to pull a full range signal, but if your factory output is 160hz and below, and you only want frequencies 140hz and below, there should be no problem or loss of frequency range. Final decision is your prefrence.

cjp85
02-28-05, 01:49 AM
Well I found the thread, it was in the Infotainment section, I thought it was in here. Here it is
http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17635

CTS Orlando, I have the same exact car that miscreant tested in his thread and he says he tested and it was full range. I'm not the best with car audio, but is there a way I can test it? Also, what makes a speaker or an output full range? Does it mean it has all frequencies and is unfiltered?

D148L0
02-28-05, 11:22 AM
Subwoofers by nature are not full range. They normally procude frequencies 180hz and below.
I would like very much to see a link/text supporting that statement, since it is not correct nor accurate...

turbojimmy
02-28-05, 12:09 PM
Any speaker is inherently "full range". A subwoofer is designed, however, to be good at reproducing sounds in the lower end of the spectrum. If you hook a sub up to a full range signal, you'd find that it attempts to reproduce sounds at all frequencies, it just doesn't do it very well. I think the question that needs to be asked is at what point in the stock system are the high-frequency sounds being filtered out for delivery to the sub (like the referenced thread says: where's the crossover?). Is it at the sub itself (therefore the signal feeding the sub would be full range) or is it somewhere else (then the signal at the sub would be filtered to just be low frequency)? Seems to me the answer is in that other thread - all the signals are full range so you can tap in anywhere. The sub must be crossed over internally.

Jim

CTS Orlando
02-28-05, 02:26 PM
I would like very much to see a link/text supporting that statement, since it is not correct nor accurate...

Christ genius boy. Whats the correct answer?

D148L0
02-28-05, 04:13 PM
Christ genius boy. Whats the correct answer?

What's the matter?
You were asked to provide a base for your statements. There is no reason to get mad. Can you give it or not?

CTS Orlando
02-28-05, 05:03 PM
What's the matter?
You were asked to provide a base for your statements. There is no reason to get mad. Can you give it or not?

:worship:

I love my 'opinions' being questioned by some web putz who scrutinizes comments like a college english professor. The basis of my statement has nothing to do with any written word or documentation. It has everything to due with my 20 something years experience with audio hardware. There is no correct answer, because all manufacturers have different ratings for their subwoofers frequency response. Your average sub has a frequency response of 25-200hz. Shame on me for suggesting that most sub amps are crossed over at 180hz!! From this day forth, I promise to never post again without including a thesis, body, conclusion, and appendix with supporting documentation and works cited.

Turbojimmy, I stand corrected and expressed my thoughts innaccuratly. Of course anything with a voice coil is inherintly full range. I suppose you could get 200hz sounds out of a tweeter if you really wanted to. My point was that I dont beleive the wizards at Cadillac would send an amplified full range signal to a subwoofer, only to muddy the sound by filtering it at the sub by using resistors or capacitors.

God knows I've been wrong before, and I'm sure you all will be quick to point it out if I am this time too.

turbojimmy
02-28-05, 05:47 PM
Turbojimmy, I stand corrected and expressed my thoughts innaccuratly. Of course anything with a voice coil is inherintly full range. I suppose you could get 200hz sounds out of a tweeter if you really wanted to. My point was that I dont beleive the wizards at Cadillac would send an amplified full range signal to a subwoofer, only to muddy the sound by filtering it at the sub by using resistors or capacitors.

God knows I've been wrong before, and I'm sure you all will be quick to point it out if I am this time too.

I wasn't trying to be nitpicky or anything. I wasn't aware of your credentials. I know it doesn't make sense to amplify a full range and then muddy it down, but if the other poster is to be believed that's what it sounds like they did. I just replaced the sub in my car with a factory unit, but I didn't look to see how the old one worked.

It wouldn't surprise me at all if it's filtered at the sub. I'm surprised at how muddy the bass is in my DTS. The sound is better overall than, say, my Century but it's not spectacular. I had higher expectations in the bass department. I thought the separate sub in the rear deck would be a lot tighter but overall it's decent.

Jim

D148L0
02-28-05, 05:51 PM
:worship:

I love my 'opinions' being questioned by some web putz who scrutinizes comments like a college english professor. The basis of my statement has nothing to do with any written word or documentation. It has everything to due with my 20 something years experience with audio hardware.
So you started to aquire experience since you were 7 years old or younger. And you call me a genius boy? Nonono, please, don't be so modest...
Anyway, your original post was inaccurate. No big deal, or need to get upset... jeez. :chill:

CTS Orlando
02-28-05, 06:32 PM
So you started to aquire experience since you were 7 years old or younger. And you call me a genius boy? Nonono, please, don't be so modest...
Anyway, your original post was unnacurate. No big deal, or need to get upset... jeez. :chill:

I dont get upset about stupid crap like this, just overly defensive. There is nothing genius about a seven year old ripping the cone out of a speaker to get to the magnet. This is however, when the intrest began and has perpetuated since. Im still curious though, since I was innacaurate and all, what was the correct answer. I would like to see some supporting documentation please.

D148L0
02-28-05, 06:55 PM
I dont get upset about stupid crap like this, just overly defensive. There is nothing genius about a seven year old ripping the cone out of a speaker to get to the magnet. This is however, when the intrest began and has perpetuated since. Im still curious though, since I was innacaurate and all, what was the correct answer. I would like to see some supporting documentation please.
Absolutely. As long as you promise not to take it personally. I wouldn't like you to fell your esteem is being attacked and start posting "stupid crap" Deal?

CTS Orlando
02-28-05, 07:28 PM
Absolutely. As long as you promise not to take it personally. I wouldn't like you to fell your esteem is being attacked and start posting "stupid crap" Deal?

Yes yes, a deal with the Devil. Im still waiting, please school me. :bouncy:

d_todd_phelps
03-01-05, 03:19 PM
I don't know about the sub levels. I do know that the rear speakers signal is not full range. Because when I tapped into them for my new subwoofer install, there was very little low range signal being amplified. I had to change to the single bose subwoofer signal for the new subwoofer and split it and feed it into the amp. I am not an expert in this area.

D148L0
03-01-05, 03:29 PM
I don't know about the sub levels. I do know that the rear speakers signal is not full range. Because when I tapped into them for my new subwoofer install, there was very little low range signal being amplified. I had to change to the single bose subwoofer signal for the new subwoofer and split it and feed it into the amp. I am not an expert in this area.
You are right, d_todd.
But you are talking about signal, not frecuency response of a speaker.
(that was the thing to be clarified).

CTS Orlando
03-01-05, 04:38 PM
You are right, d_todd.
But you are talking about signal, not frecuency response of a speaker.
(that was the thing to be clarified).

So you made a point to cite me for a mistake, but you have yet to flaunt your knowledge and make a fool of me. Hmph. If you're gonna talk the talk, you gotta walk the walk. Your credibility is rapidly feigning.

D148L0
03-01-05, 04:43 PM
So you made a point to cite me for a mistake, but you have yet to flaunt your knowledge and make a fool of me. Hmph. If you're gonna talk the talk, you gotta walk the walk. Your credibility is rapidly feigning.
Dude, seriously, what is your problem?
This guy d_todd tried sincerely to contribute to the topic. I just told him it was a different thing. Nothing more. I wasn't trying to make a fool of you.
My credibility feigning? why, because you say so? Ok, sure... LOL!

90Brougham350
03-01-05, 04:53 PM
Please everyone just take 5, ok? There's no point in posting unless you've got something constructive to add to the thread. The PM box is the place where most of this thread belongs.

Brian

CTS Orlando
03-01-05, 05:02 PM
Dude, seriously, what is your problem?
This guy d_todd tried sincerely to contribute to the topic. I just told him it was a different thing. Nothing more. I wasn't trying to make a fool of you.
My credibility fleigning? why, because you say so? Ok, sure... LOL!

This has nothing to do with d_todd, just a continuation of a debate that you swept under the matt. You called me out, and I got a chip on my shoulder. I'll let it go, really. You've just absolutly peaked my curiousity. I offered a comment on a subject that is very familiar to me, and that I feel rather competent in. You were very quick to tell me I was wrong and demanded supporting documentation. However, you never provided a rebuttal. I really want to know what I said that was so horribly wrong, and what you know that makes you so virtuously right. Im just looking to learn a little more and not make the same mistake twice. If you know something that I don't, I'm very intrested to find out what it is. If you don't know anything at all, then I can accept that, and I'm over it.

D148L0
03-01-05, 07:13 PM
Please everyone just take 5, ok? There's no point in posting unless you've got something constructive to add to the thread. The PM box is the place where most of this thread belongs.

Brian
Brian, the day you see me disrespecting another member, name-calling him or losing my temper, ask me to take five. OK?

I only asked for information backup. That is something I always do when I see somebody stating something that more likely will confuse other members rather than be of any use.

RealmCenter
03-01-05, 07:32 PM
My dad could beat up each and every one of your dads

D148L0
03-01-05, 07:44 PM
This has nothing to do with d_todd... (edit for space)
OK. Since you insist:

Your "Subwoofers by nature are not full range. They normally procude frequencies 180hz and below." statement is not correct nor accurate:

Attempting to give a universal frecuency response (FR) to subwoofers is... err... not logical, to put it nicely.

FR varies from brand to brand. In a same brand, it varies from line to line, and in a same line, it most likely will vary from size to size.
That way, from an 8 to a 15 inches, the range is too wide to give a reasonable figure.

Then you "corrected" your original statement by saying: Your average sub has a frequency response of 25-200hz. . Not by far, man.
First you would have to say what is an "average" sub. Average in size? In price? In the construction materials?
The possibilities are endless.

And guess what?
One sub with your assumed value of 25 - 200hz most likely will fall in the "better than average" classification.
Why? a 25 - 200 range is VERY narrow, a property you most likely will see in those products from well known manufacturers.
For example, an 8" audiobahn has a FR of 30 - 1000 Hz, a same sized kicker has 30 - 500 Hz and a RF has 20 - 200 Hz.

Nobody said a word about your suggested crossover cutoff setting. Now that we are talking about it, it is also too low in my opinion. Which speakers are going to reproduce the frecs from 180 and up? your midranges?
The reason why I didn't say anything before is because that specific thing is a matter of personal taste. Personally, I like a sound as close to the original source as possible, while your cutoff point is more likely used in "boom" oriented systems, where you loose a lot of frecs in the low/mid-low range in order to make your system louder.

D148L0
03-01-05, 07:46 PM
My dad could beat up each and every one of your dads
Well, if he can dig my dad out of his grave, I'm sure he would...









nah, I'm just messing with you, he's not. :bouncy:

RealmCenter
03-01-05, 08:05 PM
You seem like a pretty Smart feller thar D148. I want to upgrade my stock non Bose system in my '97 STS, Do you know if the later model CD/Cassette combo radio would work in my car? I wanted to run that with Infinity Kappa 6x9s in the back and Infinity Kappa 6.5s in the front doors powered by (1) Hifonics Zeus 4 channel amp. I know I need the line convertors for the RCA hookups (2) one for front and one for rear. So basically I just want to use the radio as a pre-amp and run everything else aftermarket. Sound like a good plan? :confused:
Darren

D148L0
03-01-05, 08:38 PM
You seem like a pretty Smart feller thar D148. I want to upgrade my stock non Bose system in my '97 STS, Do you know if the later model CD/Cassette combo radio would work in my car? I wanted to run that with Infinity Kappa 6x9s in the back and Infinity Kappa 6.5s in the front doors powered by (1) Hifonics Zeus 4 channel amp. I know I need the line convertors for the RCA hookups (2) one for front and one for rear. So basically I just want to use the radio as a pre-amp and run everything else aftermarket. Sound like a good plan? :confused:
Darren
LOL! thanx... I am not familiar with the system of all models (I wish), so I am not sure if a later model will fit your car. I assume you want to keep the factory look, right? I think a 98 or 99 may fit, but I am not positive. I would need to know which one in order to give you a proper wiring diagram. Hopefully another member can provide more info.
IF the later HU fits, I don't see any problem with your setup since it's not a bose (those are a real pain to modify).

90Brougham350
03-01-05, 11:47 PM
Brian, the day you see me disrespecting another member, name-calling him or losing my temper, ask me to take five. OK?

Excuse me, I wasn't directing my comment solely at you, I just figured things were getting a little uneasy. You've provided me with valuable information and for than I am grateful. No disrespect meant.

Brian

D148L0
03-02-05, 12:30 AM
Excuse me, I wasn't directing my comment solely at you, I just figured things were getting a little uneasy. You've provided me with valuable information and for than I am grateful. No disrespect meant.

Brian
Dude, no problemo. I know things sometimes get uneasy, but I'm the one asking for calm. I give respect, expect the same.

cl1986
03-02-05, 08:38 PM
[QUOTE=D148L0]So you started to aquire experience since you were 7 years old or younger. And you call me a genius boy? Nonono, please, don't be so modest...

Thats funny because i remember as a small kid hooking up some 20w speaker to my 150w home reciever. Boy is that funny!!! Gotta love curiosity. LOL

D148L0
03-03-05, 12:11 AM
Thats funny because i remember as a small kid hooking up some 20w speaker to my 150w home reciever. Boy is that funny!!! Gotta love curiosity. LOL
But of course! If you like audio systems a lot, there is a chance you liked them as a kid. I enjoyed dissasembling radios and speakers, too, but I wouldn't call that "experience".

cl1986
03-06-05, 07:43 PM
[/QUOTE] Seems to me the answer is in that other thread - all the signals are full range so you can tap in anywhere. The sub must be crossed over internally.

Jim[/QUOTE]

Who said the sub WAS crossed over?? I have a hard time believing that a sub can reproduce anything over 800hz. I just cant hear the 20k for some reason. While you can give it a full range signal which it may very well be, it just aint going to do 20k. The rating on the sub itself is what it can do BEST. so saying 20-250hz is the recommended frequencies. I have had some subs doing on a full range signal, they just dont sound right when some guy yells HEY and its 10x louder than the bass or treble. Even the midrange cant do 20k though.

lawfive
03-15-05, 12:07 AM
Wow, I came here to get away from the CTS-V thing...