: WHY didn't GM put the 3.6L in the DTS???



Cadillac_Phx
07-15-13, 05:18 PM
The 3.6L V6 has more power (302-310 HP) than the 4.6L Northstar, it consumes less fuel! I just don't see how GM couldn't offer that as an option like they did with the STS. We all know the North* is a sensitive little cry baby with a long history of leaking problems. What about a RWD setup? Or at least AWD? I think they could have made this big sedan better in many ways. What do you all think?

1BadCadSTS
07-15-13, 05:23 PM
The 3.6 has more power in the straight form. The dts is a sideways mounted. Compare apples to apples. Lh2 rwd n* had 325 hp vs 302 in the 3.6 DI.

Also the 3.6 shows minimal gain on fuel economy at the offset of reliability (oil consumption carbon build up and timing chain failure)

Also the dts is a pig hp is top end torque is acceleration. The N* has more low end torque over the 3.6.

Superjim
07-15-13, 05:39 PM
I would have NEVER NEVER have bought a DTS if it had the 3.6...

Cadillac_Phx
07-15-13, 05:43 PM
Okay but what if they made it RWD or AWD with a different V8 engine? or the 4.4L Northstar? Don't get me wrong guys I love V8's, but I havent had one in 2 years and now I'm remembering why lol. That fuel gauge seems to be lazy! It likes to take naps like me!

danog
07-15-13, 06:17 PM
You can add to the 3.6 list. Low oil sensor never working. I cant tell you how many 3.6 that were skipping and all they needed was 5 qts of oil. Drivers cylinder head. Front cover leaking. Some times a second set of timing chains. Water pumps. And just 2 MPG more

Superjim
07-15-13, 07:03 PM
Okay but what if they made it RWD or AWD with a different V8 engine? or the 4.4L Northstar? Don't get me wrong guys I love V8's, but I havent had one in 2 years and now I'm remembering why lol. That fuel gauge seems to be lazy! It likes to take naps like me!

RWD would be fine... I would not buy an AWD.
I see nothing wrong with the NorthStar...
Mine is approximately 330 HP and runs great.
It also gets pretty good mileage and don't leak a drop of oil...
I can't complain about that.

But a nice LS engine and RWD in one would be nice...
OH WAIT... the Chevy SS will be out before long....LS and RWD... LOL

MoistCabbage
07-15-13, 07:23 PM
It would make no sense to design a whole new floorpan, and chassis, and make all the necessary wiring and plumbing changes to support a different engine and RWD, only to put a body on top that is now 8 years old.

Cadillac_Phx
07-15-13, 07:25 PM
RWD would be fine... I would not buy an AWD.
I see nothing wrong with the NorthStar...
Mine is approximately 330 HP and runs great.
It also gets pretty good mileage and don't leak a drop of oil...
I can't complain about that.

But a nice LS engine and RWD in one would be nice...
OH WAIT... the Chevy SS will be out before long....LS and RWD... LOL

Wait a min, Jim how the hell did u get 330 hp out of a northstar? I was told more than 300 hp is bad on a FWD vehicle.

amunderdog
07-15-13, 08:55 PM
The 3.6 L (3564 cc) LY7 - 2004–2007 Cadillac CTS 255 hp (190 kW) @ 6200 rpm 252 lbft (342 Nm) @ 3100 rpm
The 3.6 litre (3564 cc) LLT - 2008–2011 Cadillac CTS 304 hp (227 kW) @ 6400 rpm 273 lbft (370 Nm) @ 5200 rpm

North star
The L37 (VIN "9") - 1996–2004 Cadillac DeVille Concours/DTS 300 hp (224 kW) @ 6000 rpm 295 lbft (400 Nm) @ 4400 rpm
The LD8 (VIN "Y") - 2006–2011 Cadillac DTS 275 hp (205 kW) @ 6000 rpm 295 lbft (400 Nm) @ 4400 rpm

Looks like more torq at lower rpm's
It is amazing how close they are.

Superjim
07-15-13, 10:53 PM
Wait a min, Jim how the hell did u get 330 hp out of a northstar? I was told more than 300 hp is bad on a FWD vehicle.

Tuning the engine and transmission with EFI Live... :)
Makes it a LOT more fun to drive... :thumbsup:

Cadillac_Phx
07-15-13, 11:37 PM
Tuning the engine and transmission with EFI Live... :)
Makes it a LOT more fun to drive... :thumbsup:

How much did that cost you? I just purchased my 06 DTS a week ago with 130,000 miles. I'm not sure if that would be a good idea with the amount of miles this engine and transmission already have

Superjim
07-15-13, 11:46 PM
How much did that cost you? I just purchased my 06 DTS a week ago with 130,000 miles. I'm not sure if that would be a good idea with the amount of miles this engine and transmission already have

I had it done about a year after I bought the car new.
I think the cost was about $250.
I later bought the complete tuning kit so I could TWEAK some of the settings.

I now have a little over 130,000 on it.
Drivetrain has been flawless... at least so far.
At a guess, your LUXll would probably go up to close to 300HP
Mine is a little higher because I started with a VIN "9", not a VIN "Y"
It would have to be "YOUR" decision about tuning it.
As long as everything is in real good shape and you are not constantly going to be abusing it... I don't see a problem.

Jim

Cadillac_Phx
07-16-13, 01:07 AM
I had it done about a year after I bought the car new.
I think the cost was about $250.
I later bought the complete tuning kit so I could TWEAK some of the settings.

I now have a little over 130,000 on it.
Drivetrain has been flawless... at least so far.
At a guess, your LUXll would probably go up to close to 300HP
Mine is a little higher because I started with a VIN "9", not a VIN "Y"
It would have to be "YOUR" decision about tuning it.
As long as everything is in real good shape and you are not constantly going to be abusing it... I don't see a problem.

Jim

Wow $250 for an extra 15 horsepower? sounds like a deal, send me some info. Send me a private message or something. By the way is that 330 bhp or at the wheels?

turnne
07-16-13, 03:17 PM
It would make no sense to design a whole new floorpan, and chassis, and make all the necessary wiring and plumbing changes to support a different engine and RWD, only to put a body on top that is now 8 years old.

and a transmission that is even older than that


Warren

Stepside
07-19-13, 04:26 PM
^^^ ~ Yup . :yup: . it would be nice to have a 6 speed trans in the 'Performance' model. :(

But, Torque & Co$t - is the answer to the OP.

jazoo
07-19-13, 07:43 PM
The 3.6L V6 has more power (302-310 HP) than the 4.6L Northstar, it consumes less fuel! I just don't see how GM couldn't offer that as an option like they did with the STS. We all know the North* is a sensitive little cry baby with a long history of leaking problems. What about a RWD setup? Or at least AWD? I think they could have made this big sedan better in many ways. What do you all think?

I think it is the right size engine, especially with a curb weight of over 4,000#s and majestic dimensions of ~208 inches long and ~75 inches wide. If you wanted a Cadillac then you could have bought a CTS with all the goodies. I guess you could buy 2013 XTS with AWD. BTW, I saw an advertisement of CTS, VR1200 coupe with twin turbos the other day. It was expensive though with a price tag of whopping over $265,000.00. I also saw a review of this super machine at topspeed.com. They were anticipating a price nearing the $500,000 mark.

http://www.topspeed.com/cars/cadillac/2013-cadillac-cts-vr1200-twin-turbo-coupe-by-hennessey-ar134607.html

My question is that who (GM engineers) in their right mind decided to build an engine requiring 7.5 quarts of oil for every oil change? That is lot of oil waste every 3,500 to 4,000 miles.

turnne
07-19-13, 07:51 PM
par for the course with the Germans
Both my older benz's and BMW took 8 quarts


Warren

Superjim
07-19-13, 09:35 PM
My question is that who (GM engineers) in their right mind decided to build an engine requiring 7.5 quarts of oil for every oil change? That is lot of oil waste every 3,500 to 4,000 miles.

Why do you change your oil so often??
I go by the Oil Life Monitor and change it at about 30%.
At that time the mileage is usually pushing 10,000 miles.

Stepside
07-19-13, 10:52 PM
:coffee:7.5 quarts of oil helps with cooling and shear properties due to the stress on oil with the 4 camshafts.
The Engineers would not be in their right mind to think differently.
Luckily, GM Management (with limited :bang2:cognitive abilities) did not overrule.
Most all oils today with an API rating of SM/SN or above will handle 5,000 miles or more for synthetics.
~ :vulcan: ~