: Help! Shake N' Brake



MW94
07-12-13, 04:18 PM
I have a 2006 DTS Lux III with 56K on the clock.
I've noticed that it would start shaking and vibrating around 45-60mph then smooth out to a buttery goodness ride at 70+.
But then it started shaking heavily when I would apply the brakes.
I just got the tires rotated and balanced today hoping it would help, but it didn't do much at all.
Recently I've replaced brake pads and new hubs on the front.
Any ideas as to what could be? I'm thinking tie rod ends or warped rotors. But I want your opinions please!

jazoo
07-12-13, 06:45 PM
MW94,

It could be several areas/things; i.e., components associated with the suspension, tires (tires cupping, tire belts shifting, etc), brakes like you mentioned about the warped rotor(s), etc. But when you mentioned that the vehicle started shaking heavily when you applied brakes then the first recommendation came to my mind that you should get the rotors c/k'ed out. If this does not alleviate the problem then you should proceed to other areas, mentioned above.

By the way what did the shop mechanic say where you got the tires work done or you just forgot to mention about the shaking/vibration issue?

Please keep us posted about your progress.

Bearrington
07-12-13, 10:34 PM
I had a similar problem on my 07, I got a bad shake from 50-65 mph then over 65 was fine. I had the wheels balanced and it seemed to get worse so I had them balanced again and voila no more shake! I guess a wheel balance can only be as good as the tech that performs it!

grullon10
07-12-13, 10:43 PM
I had the same problem with shaking between 45 and 65 until I found the right tech. After this guy did my wheel balance the shaking stop. The shaking when you brake 80% of the time it mean that you have bad rotor.

MW94
07-15-13, 02:55 AM
Hello All!
Sorry I''ve been out lately, been busy with school, here I thought that aircraft maintenance would be easy like with cars. dead wrong!
But anyways I am planning to go out tomorrow and get this looked at, it only seems to come up when I've driven in the city and use the brakes excessively. Like when the rotors come up to temperature, I have a very sneeking suspicion that it's the rotors, I just did a quick look at em through the rim and Im seeing uneven wear marks. But still I will go and have it looked at to justify it! I will keep everyone posted about the progress! Thanks everyone for you help!

Superjim
07-15-13, 10:07 AM
It is very, very, very unlikely that you have a bad rotor.
If your car still has the original brakes pads or if they were replaced with the original pads... what you have is a buildup of pad material on the rotors.
This will cause a shuddering feel when you apply the brakes... the hotter the brakes and rotors are... the worse it will feel.
I know... I had the same problem for several years till I replaced the pads on my car.
Now it is smooth as silk.
There are reformulated pads available the eliminate this problem.

Part number for the front... ACDelco 171-0985
Part number for the rear... ACDelco 171-0954

I did not replace any of my rotors... just the brake pads.
Vibration, shuddering and brake pedal pulsation is gone.

Cadillac Cust Svc
07-15-13, 03:05 PM
Hello All!
Sorry I''ve been out lately, been busy with school, here I thought that aircraft maintenance would be easy like with cars. dead wrong!
But anyways I am planning to go out tomorrow and get this looked at, it only seems to come up when I've driven in the city and use the brakes excessively. Like when the rotors come up to temperature, I have a very sneeking suspicion that it's the rotors, I just did a quick look at em through the rim and Im seeing uneven wear marks. But still I will go and have it looked at to justify it! I will keep everyone posted about the progress! Thanks everyone for you help!

Hello MW94,

I apologize for any vehicle trouble you are experiencing. Please do keep us posted on the progress. If you would like to further discuss any concern or issue, don't hesitate to reach out to us via private message.

Sincerely,

Laura M.
Cadillac Customer Care

MW94
07-17-13, 04:31 PM
I have after market ceramics on them, would it still cause that?

----------

Well here's an update,
I went to my local Caddy dealership and had them open it up and looked at,
they said that the front rotors are indeed gone "bad" and they are too thin to turn over so they say that they have to be replaced.
Also my rear pads are worn out.
The estimates they gave me JUST for the front ROTORS was $450 :mad:
Estimate for just rear pads was $300
That is just way too much money for these things.
I have messed around with many cars and did various things, but not ever in my 20 years of existence have I ever done Pads or rotors,
I am in school to be an aircraft mechanic so I have mechanical ability as well as a decent set of Snap On tools.
Do you all think rotors is something I can do myself or just leave it to the professionals?
From what I ASSUME doing rotors would be, is take the calipers off by the bolts on the back of it, hang the caliper, and pull the rotor off, is it really that "easy"?
Thanks again for your input!

Superjim
07-17-13, 05:19 PM
I have after market ceramics on them, would it still cause that?

----------

Well here's an update,
I went to my local Caddy dealership and had them open it up and looked at,
they said that the front rotors are indeed gone "bad" and they are too thin to turn over so they say that they have to be replaced.
Also my rear pads are worn out.
The estimates they gave me JUST for the front ROTORS was $450 :mad:
Estimate for just rear pads was $300
That is just way too much money for these things.
I have messed around with many cars and did various things, but not ever in my 20 years of existence have I ever done Pads or rotors,
I am in school to be an aircraft mechanic so I have mechanical ability as well as a decent set of Snap On tools.
Do you all think rotors is something I can do myself or just leave it to the professionals?
From what I ASSUME doing rotors would be, is take the calipers off by the bolts on the back of it, hang the caliper, and pull the rotor off, is it really that "easy"?
Thanks again for your input!

Yes, it really is that easy...
There is a TORX screw in the rotor that holds it solid to the hub assembly..
Picture below...


Front rotor...ACDelco 177-1006
$63.44
http://www.amazon.com/ACDelco-177-1006-Service-Front-Brake/dp/B001DRLD32/ref=au_pf_ss_3?ie=UTF8&Make=Cadillac|46&Model=DTS|2815&Year=2006|2006&carId=001&n=15684181&s=automotive

Rear rotor... ACDelco 177-1002
$47.81
http://www.amazon.com/ACDelco-177-1002-Service-Brake-Rotor/dp/B001DRGCOM/ref=au_pf_ss_13?ie=UTF8&Make=Cadillac|46&Model=DTS|2815&Year=2006|2006&carId=001&n=15684181&s=automotive
.
.
.
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j40/superjim1944/Hub%20Bearing/20120408_110702.jpg (http://s76.photobucket.com/user/superjim1944/media/Hub%20Bearing/20120408_110702.jpg.html)

----------

MW94...

Front pads...
$52.06
http://www.amazon.com/ACDelco-171-0985-Service-Front-Brake/dp/B001LQ6HSQ/ref=sr_1_1?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1374092218&sr=1-1&keywords=171-0985

Rear pads... $67.51
http://www.amazon.com/ACDelco-171-0954-Service-Rear-Brake/dp/B001DRJ9X8/ref=sr_1_1?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1374092312&sr=1-1&keywords=171-0954

Tom's Caddy
07-17-13, 05:29 PM
No such thing as a warped rotor, old saying from auto racing, can not happen on our cars. Sub on this forum has a great thread on the rotor farce. Before you do anything find a GOOD tire only shop that knows about ROAD FORCE BALANCE, get that done right, first. It solved my vibration. The caddy dealer just tried to get me for rotors, I said just put the pads on that Jim gave you the part# and my brakes are as good as new. Jim is bang on about the pads leaving imprints on the rotors, ranger on this forum rides his brakes for 2 miles then no braking at all for 5 miles, seems to work for him. Our rotors last a long long long time. :thumbsup:

MW94
07-17-13, 05:45 PM
Oh man oh man, now I'm left here with a dilemma, to replace rotors or not to replace rotors?
Dealer tech showed me that my rotors were too thin, showed me the min. thickness is supposed to be 28.6 (of some unit) and mine were at 29.8 (of some unit, I forgot honestly)

I had new ceramics put on the front about 6,000 miles ago when I had the front two hubs replaced...

----------

ALSO I've noticed that the 12-13 Impala uses the same rotor part number for the 06-08 DTS, The impala rotors are cheaper, even the ACDELCO ones, would it be wise to order 2012 Impala rotors for my 06 DTS?

MoistCabbage
07-17-13, 05:49 PM
Well then they're not too thin for service. Too thin to be turned maybe.

Try several aggressive brake applications from highway speeds to ~20 MPH or so. Then allow them to cool for 2 or so miles without stopping.

If that doesn't work, replace the pads and rotors.

Tom's Caddy
07-17-13, 05:55 PM
I'm sorry to say that I think you will still have the vibration even if you change them. Do what MoistCabbage said and for only $50 get them ROAD FORCE BALANCED properly by someone that really knows what that means before replacing OEM rotors please.

MW94
07-17-13, 05:58 PM
Well then they're not too thin for service. Too thin to be turned maybe.

Try several aggressive brake applications from highway speeds to ~20 MPH or so. Then allow them to cool for 2 or so miles without stopping.

If that doesn't work, replace the pads and rotors.


Is that called "bedding in" ? Because we do it on most light aircraft to set the rotors and brakes in, and it's kind of doing what you suggested.
I think it might be worth it to give it a shot lol.

Superjim
07-17-13, 06:04 PM
What the measurements show is that it is too thin to TURN AGAIN...
It is still JUST BARELY in spec to go ahead and USE.

The Impala "POLICE CAR" uses the same rotor part number... not the regular Impale...

I "WOULD NOT" put anything on it but original AC DELCO parts.... but that's just me... :)
I have over 130,000 on my 2006 and it still runs and drives about like a new one.

I don't know where you found cheaper prices for the rotors... but if it is the SAME PART NUMBER... get them from the cheapest place, but just remember...
Amazon gives "FREE" 2 day shipping if you have a Prime account.

Remember to factor in shipping charges and how long it will take to get them from some place else.

----------


Is that called "bedding in" ? Because we do it on most light aircraft to set the rotors and brakes in, and it's kind of doing what you suggested.
I think it might be worth it to give it a shot lol.

Yes...

MW94
07-17-13, 06:15 PM
What the measurements show is that it is too thin to TURN AGAIN...
It is still JUST BARELY in spec to go ahead and USE.

The Impala "POLICE CAR" uses the same rotor part number... not the regular Impale...

I "WOULD NOT" put anything on it but original AC DELCO parts.... but that's just me... :)
I have over 130,000 on my 2006 and it still runs and drives about like a new one.

I don't know where you found cheaper prices for the rotors... but if it is the SAME PART NUMBER... get them from the cheapest place, but just remember...
Amazon gives "FREE" 2 day shipping if you have a Prime account.

Remember to factor in shipping charges and how long it will take to get them from some place else.

----------



Yes...

Okay I see, it's all making sense now!
And yes Superjim I completely agree with you on ACDelco parts, original really is the best way to go. It holds true for my '02 Express 3500 Pass Van, only ever put AcDelco on it and 195K on the clock it runs solid.
I was shopping around and found them on acdelcodirect.com, also rockauto and amazon have consistently shown lower prices. But I will do my homework!
Just trying to save every penny I can lol.
Thank you for your help!

----------

Thank you everyone for your inputs! Y'all are awesome! All of you really helped me out a lot, and I will very soon get to work on my baby.
I will keep everyone updated, and if there are anymore tricks or suggestions please don't hesitate to help a brother out!

MoistCabbage
07-17-13, 10:02 PM
The procedure I described is not the same as "bedding in" new brakes, that's something a bit more involved, and takes place over a longer period of time. It is similar to the initial bed in process, but is intended to burn excess pad material off of the rotors.

Just to clarify, doing this, or replacing the pads and rotors, will only solve the vibration while braking. The vibration while not braking is a different issue.

jazoo
07-18-13, 07:39 PM
[QUOTE=MW94;10532473]Oh man oh man, now I'm left here with a dilemma, to replace rotors or not to replace rotors?
Dealer tech showed me that my rotors were too thin, showed me the min. thickness is supposed to be 28.6 (of some unit) and mine were at 29.8 (of some unit, I forgot honestly)

I had new ceramics put on the front about 6,000 miles ago when I had the front two hubs replaced...[COLOR="Silver"]

The units are mm. So, the recommended Min is 28.9 mm and yours are 29.8 mm; a difference 1.2 mm which is minute/very small thickness. I would recommend replacing the front rotors. You said that you installed new ceramics pads and not the rotors!!

tjwhite721
07-30-13, 03:35 AM
It is very, very, very unlikely that you have a bad rotor.
If your car still has the original brakes pads or if they were replaced with the original pads... what you have is a buildup of pad material on the rotors.
This will cause a shuddering feel when you apply the brakes... the hotter the brakes and rotors are... the worse it will feel.
I know... I had the same problem for several years till I replaced the pads on my car.
Now it is smooth as silk.
There are reformulated pads available the eliminate this problem.

Part number for the front... ACDelco 171-0985
Part number for the rear... ACDelco 171-0954

I did not replace any of my rotors... just the brake pads.
Vibration, shuddering and brake pedal pulsation is gone.

Hi SuperJim,

I was just about to buy the rotors. I will try the brake pads you have mentioned here first.

Superjim
07-30-13, 08:50 AM
Hi SuperJim,

I was just about to buy the rotors. I will try the brake pads you have mentioned here first.

Unless your rotors have grooves in them or are obviously bad... probably all you need to do is replace the pads.
They are easy to replace.
It may take a few days for the new pads to clean all the STUFF off of the rotors and smooth out.
On mine it took a couple of days to get really smooth.

billbill1
08-13-13, 06:42 PM
Did front pads and rotors at 100K, $183 Amazon.com Prime.
Rear in great shape.
P.S.
Amazon Prime is hard to beat, I use RockAuto, for Part I.D.& price, Amazon Prime "no shipping".

peryan
11-23-13, 06:23 PM
I just replaced my 2007 DTS front brakes with a PowerStop rotors and pad kit. $184.00 delivered. These rotors are zinc plated, drilled and slotted and the pads are ceramic. The stopping performance was
noticeable. Great investment as the OEM style rotors/pads from AutoZone or NAPA are as expensive but not nearly the same level of quality. The drilled/slotted rotors are treated to a 7000 C heat treatment and are not suppose to warp as much as the solid OEM's...

brucehammond
11-26-13, 08:27 PM
I would not recommend the powerstop rotors. I put them on all four wheels and had a loud vibration. After going back and forth with auto anything and powerstop they replaced the slotted rotors with solid ones. All is quiet now.

peryan
01-18-14, 08:12 AM
I was so pleased with the Powerstop brake kit on my DTS, I just replaced my Mazda CX-9 front brakes with the same kit. They made a nice improvement.