: DI Noise on cold start up



Ghost Deany
07-12-13, 12:31 AM
Did a thread about this before a while back, and had it in to the dealer, they had given me a doc number and said it was a normal noise. Not sure if they actually listened to mine or not, but i finally got it on video. It only does it on cold start ups and maybe one time out of 5. Heres a video from tonight. Sometimes it sounds like real shit. Is this really normal startup noise? My old 08 DI CTS didnt sound like this once on startup. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZDs_x75bC4&feature=youtu.be

C&C
07-12-13, 04:59 AM
Tough call (short video over the internet); but it kind of sounds like a chain-slap (cam chain?) and maybe the cam chain tensioner sticking a little (then taking up the slack). Just a guess.

1BadCadSTS
07-12-13, 06:58 AM
Check your oil level and welcome to the beginning stages of timing chain stretch and premature guide wear.

Helps if you post what you have also.

Ghost Deany
07-12-13, 08:54 AM
2011 RWD 3.6 w 34kmiles.

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Just changed the oil. After the change on the first startup you could hear it really loud and clear

1BadCadSTS
07-12-13, 09:34 AM
2011 RWD 3.6 w 34kmiles.

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Just changed the oil. After the change on the first startup you could hear it really loud and clear

I understand you just changed it. It doesn't answer my question though. Did you check the level? The 3.6 DRINKS oil. Also it takes 6-7 quarts not 5 like most people assume is needed for an oil change.

Ghost Deany
07-12-13, 09:39 AM
The oil level was normal. Always put 6qts in any of the 3.6s i have had.

KRSTS
07-12-13, 10:35 AM
Doesn't sound normal. Mine does not sound like that.

curtc
07-12-13, 10:56 AM
That is definitely NOT normal...This is very similar to how my 04 CTS 3.6 started to sound on cold starts before I dumped it to a Ford dealer for my STS...Sounds like chain slack to me.

Have you noticed your engine using oil since you've owned it?

Ghost Deany
07-12-13, 01:02 PM
No the oil level seems to be always normal when i check it.

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I have warranty left on it for a while. What should i take it in and ask them to check

curtc
07-12-13, 01:41 PM
Well, for one, don't take it back to the place that told you it was normal for it to do that...Also, what doc number did they give you saying that engine clattering is normal at start up???

Have them inspect the noise and that you are concerned that it might be the timing chain as you know it is a common failure point for the 3.6L engine...Hope your warranty covers the timing chain.

Ghost Deany
07-12-13, 01:57 PM
My dealer is pretty good. This happens intermittently so im gonna assume they probably did not hear that noise. The doc is 07-06-04-025h : information on clicking/ticking sound/noise heard during cold start (july 27, 2012) then it lists the models it effects and says Do this: Inform customer that this is normal op. of the high pressure fuel pump and injectors. . Says not to replace. I need to let them hear this video

curtc
07-12-13, 02:13 PM
I would definitely not describe that noie as a "click" or "tick", that is more like a clatter or rattle...

1BadCadSTS
07-12-13, 02:19 PM
Oh yeah? and this according to the dealer is cold piston slap...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nBKy9nko5nI&feature=c4-overview&list=UUF12bInaU4nQmjp_2udovcg

5 hours later I was throwing a rod through the block racing a Buick GNX at the track because I pinched the oil pump pick up tube O ring... My fault but I wasn't happy for the dealers poor diagnostic... Could of saved the engine by replacing a 2 dollar O ring....

That noise is not normal. My LH2 N* with VVT isnt that noisy and it is noisy due to the VVT... My sisters 3.6 05 SRX which drinks oil and has been run on a few occasions low as she never checks it sounds JUST like that on cold starts when its 3 quarts low on oil...

Ghost Deany
07-12-13, 02:30 PM
I def agree this isnt normal. I went to school for automotive and do alot of my own work Id like to get it addressed and i figured it was timing chain related, just wanted to get some ideas what to tell the dealer. My 08 DI CTS never made that noise or my 05 3.6

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And that piston slap video sounds like shit

1BadCadSTS
07-12-13, 02:43 PM
Old phone but you can hear the bad noise. It wasn't piston slap. They said it was I believed them and it cost me motor.

Ghost Deany
07-12-13, 07:13 PM
Just got home from work and its in the garage, started it up and now it didnt do it. It is intermittent so its hard to get it to do it consistently. I have the 2 videos and as retarded as this might sound i need the tech to listen to the 2 vids with headphones on the phone because getting the car to do it in person when i want it to, is next to impossible.

EChas3
07-12-13, 09:47 PM
I bet it happens more frequently first start of the day. Leave the car overnight.

Thoroughly document your claim and then you're covered even when the warranty expires. I had a Buick with an intermittant climate control issue (too cold on a long drive). It took 6 trips and three dealers, but finally I found one willing to dig all the way into it. By that time, I was out of warranty by mileage & months. No worries!

Ghost Deany
07-14-13, 11:59 PM
Heres a real good clear vid of it http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qGENlbQOeWk&feature=youtu.be

1BadCadSTS
07-15-13, 01:12 AM
Again.

Premature timing chain guide wear and timing chain stretch. Fix it or dump it but do I before it completely goes.

Ghost Deany
07-15-13, 08:43 AM
Dropping it off at 10am today. Are the timing chains so bad that theres a probability that the new one will either be bad at some point shortly after install or luckily fine with no issue?

1BadCadSTS
07-15-13, 08:53 AM
It's hit or miss. I know on the srx forum a member had them replaced 3 times. Others never.

curtc
07-15-13, 10:26 AM
The issue isn't the chains or the guides...it's the PCV system...Reach out to SC2150, he is a member here that lurks in the 1st Gen CTS forum. He works with a company that has done extensive work on the 3.6L, they also offer a few performance add-on's that no one else produces for that motor. He should be able to help you out in regards to the issue that causes this, hell, look up threads of his and I bet you get some insight.

EChas3
07-15-13, 09:28 PM
Opinions vary. Curtc refers to a member that makes a convincing case but there were also a series of sub-standard chains and the guides have been redesigned. Ultimately, it's a design flaw that GM really should cover under warranty; pro-rata if nothing else.

Ghost Deany
07-17-13, 01:04 AM
replacing the chain, let the tech hear it and he knew right away.

curtc
07-17-13, 11:38 AM
Another 3.6 bites the dust...Hope it's covered under your warranty.

I should be a Cadillac technician if my IT career doesn't pan out...Can diagnose these damn things over the interwebz! :)

Ghost Deany
07-17-13, 01:47 PM
Yea still under the b2b warranty its a 2011 with 35k on it. If this was out of warranty i would of traded it in.

Ludacrisvp
07-17-13, 05:27 PM
Clearly the timing chain issues still plague the 3.6L if the 2011 model with that few of miles has issues.

Sent from my One

EChas3
07-18-13, 12:34 AM
Curt - The 3.6 will eventually get fixed or replaced. IT will only get upgraded. Now that's job security!

Guy.Seminerio
07-18-13, 02:24 AM
Yeah but I think it's a lot rarer. Good to see that after... What.. 7? 8 years? GM still hasn't solved the 3.6 liter v6 DI with DOHC mystery.

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That's the problem with putting out substandard bs. Cadillac is well into the process of cleaning up their act and "reinventing" themselves, meanwhile, that damn engine is going to continue to tarnish the name of cadillac and GM as a whole for decades!! Look at the old northstars. They're still talked about negatively for reliability issues and those issues are long gone. Those cars are still around though.

Man do I hope the 3.6 isn't crapping out in ATSs.

1BadCadSTS
07-18-13, 06:00 PM
I blew up an XTS loaner with 1800 miles. Ill never buy a 3.6. The 2.0 turbo ATS has my eye.

Ghost Deany
07-18-13, 06:07 PM
Hopefully my new chain isnt another crapper. I wanted the V8 but their hard to find around here with the color and options i wanted. Going to monitor the oil level as well. If it continues being an issue im not going to keep
The car for too long. Its my 5th Cadillac and none of my past ones have had any major issues. Still have my 07 Escalade with 97k on it right now and its probably been the most reliable vehicle ive ever owned, dont plan on getting rid of it anytime soon. Will
Either switch back to that full time daily, or maybe consider an XTS. Im open to trying a couple other vehicles too. The Camaro SS, Challenger RT or SRT8 have my attention, diff class of car then what i normally get but im a fan of them both.

Ghost Deany
07-19-13, 02:50 PM
Says chain was stretched on l/s secondary, and all 4 cam gear actuators will not lock causing timing issues. Replaced 3 chains, primary tensioner for wear, and 4 cam gear actuators.

Ludacrisvp
07-19-13, 02:52 PM
FUN! ... hopefully there are no issues in the future.
Might look at adding that catch can and watching that oil level to prevent recurrence ?

Ghost Deany
07-19-13, 03:22 PM
Yea ill keep an eye on the level. Ive only put 3k miles on the car since getting it in march. They had to order me a passenger door handle and it has to be painted etc. so ill be going back for that.