: 2005 STS Value?



Eva14
07-11-13, 08:54 PM
I'm thinking of buying a used Cadillac, but I'm trying really hard to educate myself about cars. I really do not want to get ripped off.

My local Caddy dealership just got a 2005 STS with 46,000 miles. They are asking $14,999. I haven't yet seen the car in person, so I can't comment on its condition. I've seen photos online.

I went online to Edmunds and KBB to try to figure out the car's true value.

It looks like a 2005 STS with 46,000 miles in OUTSTANDING condition should sell for about $10,900.

Is this 4k difference the standard retail markup, or is it more of a rip-off? (Dealer stated that the car was below KBB retail value, which sounds like an outright lie). This dealer is always claiming their cars are listed BELOW KBB retail value, but anyone can go on the Internet and check to see that's not true.

When I go to KBB and punch in the numbers to see what a comparable STS is worth, is that the price that it should be listed for on a used car lot? Or should I expect a retail mark-up on top of that?

Do used car lots tend to always overprice their cars because they want to see if people will bargain with them? Is this somewhat standard....asking 15k when the car's KBB value is more like 11k at most? Thanks!

Guy.Seminerio
07-11-13, 09:05 PM
Don't know how much you should expect to be able to take off the price but 1. The dealer has to pay the bills and 2. Yeah I'd say they expect you to try to talk them down so they inflate the price. How much? I don't know. I can almost guarantee you won't get the car for 11, but if you're not in a position where you need the car ASAP, doesn't hurt to low ball them. Just have to be prepared for them to say no. Stand your ground, walk out, if they call, they call. If not, there's plenty of other STSs out there. Do yourself a favor and avoid the v6.

1BadCadSTS
07-11-13, 09:20 PM
I'm thinking of buying a used Cadillac, but I'm trying really hard to educate myself about cars. I really do not want to get ripped off.

My local Caddy dealership just got a 2005 STS with 46,000 miles. They are asking $14,999. I haven't yet seen the car in person, so I can't comment on its condition. I've seen photos online.

I went online to Edmunds and KBB to try to figure out the car's true value.

It looks like a 2005 STS with 46,000 miles in OUTSTANDING condition should sell for about $10,900.

Is this 4k difference the standard retail markup, or is it more of a rip-off? (Dealer stated that the car was below KBB retail value, which sounds like an outright lie). This dealer is always claiming their cars are listed BELOW KBB retail value, but anyone can go on the Internet and check to see that's not true.

When I go to KBB and punch in the numbers to see what a comparable STS is worth, is that the price that it should be listed for on a used car lot? Or should I expect a retail mark-up on top of that?

Do used car lots tend to always overprice their cars because they want to see if people will bargain with them? Is this somewhat standard....asking 15k when the car's KBB value is more like 11k at most? Thanks!

Depends on options especially engine and awd

Cars worth what someone's willing to pay. No more no less.

doowap57
07-11-13, 09:24 PM
Depends what Package it has, 1SB Package gets less than a 1SF or 1SG.
Open the trunk, and lift the spare tire cover, notice a white tag on the end.
the Package is next to the 1SZ notation.Also a V8 will get more than a V6.
$ 14,900 is TOO high, for even last year. :bigroll::bigroll::suspense:
Keep forgetting about AWD,that changes price also.
Good Luck in your selection.

MurrayP
07-11-13, 11:16 PM
Hi Eva14,

I paid $11,900 for 2008 N* 1SE. Now, it does have 90+ miles and some very minor body imperfections (no dings)... but she goes! Had her for a couple months now and have been reading this forum daily. Lots of great info on here and I enjoy reading all the new developments. My car is really wonderful and I always look forward to driving her every day and cleaning her frequently. Much more enjoyable than the 98 540i I had last summer as a Sunday car. The BMW was old but in beautiful condition - look at her sideways though and she is broken again. Not so with the caddie so far. I feel confident in this car. Let's see how I am feeling in a few months...:suspense:

orange57
07-12-13, 03:49 PM
Eva,

I may be looking to sell a 2005 v8 rwd soon. We had our first child so are looking to potentially get a mid size suv. PM me if interested.

Guy.Seminerio
07-12-13, 04:01 PM
People are so quick to jump on minivans and SUVs these days. It was me my brother and sis and parents - family of 5 riding around in a little Altima. No problems. It's gonna take a lot to get me out of a sedan in the future. It'll take a family of 6+ to be exact.

viccampjr
07-12-13, 06:27 PM
Picked up a 2007 STS 4 with 58,000 miles on it about three weeks ago and it's the best thing i did for myself in over 5 years.I looked around at many others before grabbing this one. It's loaded to the extreme and seriously looks and drives like new.

I bought the STS from a larger dealership here in NJ. I watched the listed price from the dealership which was for sale for over 3 months.The car didn't sell right away the first month because they had it priced at 23,900. After about a month and a half or so it dropped to 19,999 and stayed there at that price with no buyers yet,but could have sold easy because of its outstanding condition.

Then one day i was on the internet looking at other 2007 STS's and there it was priced for 15,999, so i went to see/drive this awesome condition caddy that day. After viewing this caddy in person i couldn't believe how "like new condition" it was in and that allthough the pictures show the car well it was actually better inperson. I knew at that moment i had to have this STS. Anyway, I ened up getting the STS for 15,000 after a tough battle against the seasoned saleperson and haven't looked back.

The STS you are interested in sounds like a well taken care of car. Money comes and goes..but a low mile gem of a beauty only shows up once in a while and not so often. Have you seen and driven the car yet?

KRSTS
07-12-13, 06:50 PM
No way I would pay over $10000 for a 9 year old STS no matter what the features, mileage or condition. Just saying

1BadCadSTS
07-12-13, 07:53 PM
Its not a Buick. If I found an sts plat with all the toys and low miles I would buy for over 10. Hell I'm in the market for a V. I your that cheap then best dump it now before the repair bills hit.

Cadillac Cust Svc
07-12-13, 08:21 PM
Picked up a 2007 STS 4 with 58,000 miles on it about three weeks ago and it's the best thing i did for myself in over 5 years.I looked around at many others before grabbing this one. It's loaded to the extreme and seriously looks and drives like new.

I bought the STS from a larger dealership here in NJ. I watched the listed price from the dealership which was for sale for over 3 months.The car didn't sell right away the first month because they had it priced at 23,900. After about a month and a half or so it dropped to 19,999 and stayed there at that price with no buyers yet,but could have sold easy because of its outstanding condition.

Then one day i was on the internet looking at other 2007 STS's and there it was priced for 15,999, so i went to see/drive this awesome condition caddy that day. After viewing this caddy in person i couldn't believe how "like new condition" it was in and that allthough the pictures show the car well it was actually better inperson. I knew at that moment i had to have this STS. Anyway, I ened up getting the STS for 15,000 after a tough battle against the seasoned saleperson and haven't looked back.

The STS you are interested in sounds like a well taken care of car. Money comes and goes..but a low mile gem of a beauty only shows up once in a while and not so often. Have you seen and driven the car yet?

Hello vicampjr,

I am very happy to hear that you are quite satisfied with your STS and the great deal you got on it! If you have any questions or concerns relating to your vehicle, please feel free to reach out to us via private message. Thank you very much for posting your story and enjoy your new vehicle!

Gregory W.
Cadillac Customer Care

EChas3
07-12-13, 11:01 PM
Condition is a big determinant in used car prices; almost more than mileage, certainly more than the trim level of an STS or the specific options a car has (excepting the 'V', of course.) A base V6 STS started around $42 and topped $66 when equipped like my 1SG. Now, equivilent examples used can be found under $2,000 apart.

orange57
07-13-13, 03:42 PM
People are so quick to jump on minivans and SUVs these days. It was me my brother and sis and parents - family of 5 riding around in a little Altima. No problems. It's gonna take a lot to get me out of a sedan in the future. It'll take a family of 6+ to be exact.

I love my STS, but by the time you get a car seat, stroller, pack and play and 2 dogs into it it is pretty cramped. I actually have to move my seat forward so the car seat fits without hitting.

Of the two cars we have, the STS is worth more, so selling it to pay for something bigger will minimize our payment. Its more about the budget at this point :)

Guy.Seminerio
07-13-13, 04:00 PM
Gotcha. I'm surprised you have to move your seat up. Well I'm 5'7" so I guess that's why I'm surprised.

Alden's Daddy
07-13-13, 05:46 PM
I had to move my seat up for a car seat too on my test drive the other day. And when I got out and the seat slid back, the car seat was definitely in the way. Baby boy will need to go behind the passenger seat!

turnne
07-15-13, 09:22 AM
No way I would pay over $10000 for a 9 year old STS no matter what the features, mileage or condition. Just saying


agreed

There was a dealer(Cadillac/GM) about 100 miles away from me with two V8 1SG's...06 AWD for $12,900 asking price...07 for $15,900 asking price
I know the 06 had ACC/HUD about 80K miles...not sure about the 07


Warren

BT5150
07-15-13, 03:08 PM
I don't tell too many people about this, but since no one here REALLY knows who I am, I'll share my little secret-I was in the used car biz for a while, yes I admit it, I was a used car salesman! (haha, actually I'm not that embarrassed, it actually was sort of a fun job, just the long hours and sometimes long waits twiddling my thumbs waiting for another customer could be painful, but I wasn't half bad at it and made some decent money for the time) I have my own business now, so its all just a memory, but I did learn a few things about buying used cars from a dealer. I'd say the first thing is that the "blue book" values, whether its kbb, edmunds or whoever, don't mean a whole lot, sure they're in the ballpark, but that's about it. There's so many variations, especially when you consider how big the USA is, for instance AWD is a BIG plus in the northern half of the country but its kind of a drawback in Florida-less mpg, more stuff to break, etc. People would come in all the time with the kbb printout for a car and we couldn't have cared less what it said!

A lot of what I saw determining what any particular car would sell for depended on a lot of things, many of which were quite random, first off, how much did the dealer have "into" that car, if we took it in on a new car trade-what did we pay for it, or what did we pay at an auction for it, plus we always had to run them through service to have them safety checked, sometimes things would come up, how much did that cost, etc. Other times, it could just depend on what kind of mood the sales managers were in! Or, maybe we were trying to push to meet a sales goal, sometimes that meant end of the month, other times it could just be an arbitrary date. Yes, generally the longer a car sat on the lot, the lower the price would go, yet if it was a "hot" car, it wouldn't be on the lot for long.

So, its all kind of random as to what a dealer ultimately will sell a car for. Now, if I were looking for a steal on an STS, or any Caddy, I'd actually be inclined to look for one at a non-Caddy dealer. I worked selling just used cars (where the $$ is) for a Honda dealer. We'd price all of our Hondas nice and high, because we knew we had a steady stream of Honda-friendly buyers coming through the doors every day. (actually, used Hondas are a pretty easy sell anywhere) We'd also price Toyotas, Scions, Lexus, etc pretty high and almost as high for Nissans, Subarus, etc. all cars that Honda people might be also interested in. If we ever had a Caddy on the lot, it would probably be a bit of a better deal, because we knew we'd have to price it right to sell off of our mostly import lot.

turnne
07-15-13, 05:59 PM
I don't tell too many people about this, but since no one here REALLY knows who I am, I'll share my little secret-I was in the used car biz for a while, yes I admit it, I was a used car salesman! (haha, actually I'm not that embarrassed, it actually was sort of a fun job, just the long hours and sometimes long waits twiddling my thumbs waiting for another customer could be painful, but I wasn't half bad at it and made some decent money for the time) I have my own business now, so its all just a memory, but I did learn a few things about buying used cars from a dealer. I'd say the first thing is that the "blue book" values, whether its kbb, edmunds or whoever, don't mean a whole lot, sure they're in the ballpark, but that's about it. There's so many variations, especially when you consider how big the USA is, for instance AWD is a BIG plus in the northern half of the country but its kind of a drawback in Florida-less mpg, more stuff to break, etc. People would come in all the time with the kbb printout for a car and we couldn't have cared less what it said!

A lot of what I saw determining what any particular car would sell for depended on a lot of things, many of which were quite random, first off, how much did the dealer have "into" that car, if we took it in on a new car trade-what did we pay for it, or what did we pay at an auction for it, plus we always had to run them through service to have them safety checked, sometimes things would come up, how much did that cost, etc. Other times, it could just depend on what kind of mood the sales managers were in! Or, maybe we were trying to push to meet a sales goal, sometimes that meant end of the month, other times it could just be an arbitrary date. Yes, generally the longer a car sat on the lot, the lower the price would go, yet if it was a "hot" car, it wouldn't be on the lot for long.

So, its all kind of random as to what a dealer ultimately will sell a car for. Now, if I were looking for a steal on an STS, or any Caddy, I'd actually be inclined to look for one at a non-Caddy dealer. I worked selling just used cars (where the $$ is) for a Honda dealer. We'd price all of our Hondas nice and high, because we knew we had a steady stream of Honda-friendly buyers coming through the doors every day. (actually, used Hondas are a pretty easy sell anywhere) We'd also price Toyotas, Scions, Lexus, etc pretty high and almost as high for Nissans, Subarus, etc. all cars that Honda people might be also interested in. If we ever had a Caddy on the lot, it would probably be a bit of a better deal, because we knew we'd have to price it right to sell off of our mostly import lot.

you actually have given some market intelligence
1. Those KBB..NADA etc are just a range...and not a litmus test
I have never paid book for anything

2. There are certain makes that are in more demand...and I get the fact that a dealer( of that make) would probably have higher pricing

I would also assume they would have a higher selection and those people that specifically want say a cadillac will be more inclined to go the dealer as opposed to just another dealer

Also stands to reason that Hondas..lexus..etc as you mentioned will sell anywhere
The market has driven those cars to more mass desirability than a Cadillac

The thing that you didnt speak about..and maybe it is for a new car finance person

GM had to be losing their A$% on leasing these STS's. They inflated the residual to keep the payment inline with competitors. However when the cars came back from lease they were worth no where close to what there lease residuals were....like 12-15K less after 36 months
YIKES...that spells losing $$

The good news is that the CTS seems to fare a lot better in regard to those ratios of lease residual vs actual used car market price


Warren

curtc
07-15-13, 08:28 PM
Now, if I were looking for a steal on an STS, or any Caddy, I'd actually be inclined to look for one at a non-Caddy dealer. I worked selling just used cars (where the $$ is) for a Honda dealer. We'd price all of our Hondas nice and high, because we knew we had a steady stream of Honda-friendly buyers coming through the doors every day. (actually, used Hondas are a pretty easy sell anywhere) We'd also price Toyotas, Scions, Lexus, etc pretty high and almost as high for Nissans, Subarus, etc. all cars that Honda people might be also interested in. If we ever had a Caddy on the lot, it would probably be a bit of a better deal, because we knew we'd have to price it right to sell off of our mostly import lot.

That's exactly why I bought mine from a Ford dealer. They had it listed for $19,999 in early 2012 with 71k on it. Well it sat for a few weeks, and they slashed it to $15,999, that's when I showed up...Who's gonna go to a Ford dealer and pay $20k for a used Caddy when you can get a brand new Ford for less?

Well, this guy pretty much did! :cool:

turnne
07-15-13, 08:39 PM
That's exactly why I bought mine from a Ford dealer. They had it listed for $19,999 in early 2012 with 71k on it. Well it sat for a few weeks, and they slashed it to $15,999, that's when I showed up...Who's gonna go to a Ford dealer and pay $20k for a used Caddy when you can get a brand new Ford for less?

Well, this guy pretty much did! :cool:

while I understand your point

your logic is somewhat flawed

based on the sales numbers they have to be selling more trucks/sport utilities than passenger cars

so they would have to have a large percentage of sales over the $20K mark in the new vehicle department

In the car department...not sure how many Taurus's they are selling...but the average Taurus would have to be over $20K as well...in fact closer to $30K I bet

I say this ofcourse without knowing how much lease business a ford dealer typically does



Warren

BT5150
07-15-13, 09:13 PM
you actually have given some market intelligence
1. Those KBB..NADA etc are just a range...and not a litmus test
I have never paid book for anything

2. There are certain makes that are in more demand...and I get the fact that a dealer( of that make) would probably have higher pricing

I would also assume they would have a higher selection and those people that specifically want say a cadillac will be more inclined to go the dealer as opposed to just another dealer

Also stands to reason that Hondas..lexus..etc as you mentioned will sell anywhere
The market has driven those cars to more mass desirability than a Cadillac

The thing that you didnt speak about..and maybe it is for a new car finance person

GM had to be losing their A$% on leasing these STS's. They inflated the residual to keep the payment inline with competitors. However when the cars came back from lease they were worth no where close to what there lease residuals were....like 12-15K less after 36 months
YIKES...that spells losing $$

The good news is that the CTS seems to fare a lot better in regard to those ratios of lease residual vs actual used car market price


Warren

I don't know if anyone else remembers this but I remember back when the whole "auto bailout" days were going on, like early 2009 I think it was, that subject did come up, about just that how especially GM had been losing its you know what on the lease residuals and I specifically remember hearing that leasing would never be same again, if there would be leasing at all. Just doing a quick search, I found this article from 2008:

http://www.leftlanenews.com/ford-gm-to-hike-lease-rates-due-to-losses-as-residual-values-fall.html

I remember talking to my parents about it, as they've been leasing new Caddy's for many years and how (as of then) apparently those days were over! Yet, here we are, 4 or 5 years later and leasing seems to be going just the same as it always was, including what I think is one heck of a deal, (and what might keep me from picking up a used STS or CTS-which is why I'm lurking on the forum here!) the deal for the $299/month lease on the ATS. I'm seriously considering an STS, yet I keep thinking I might be nuts when I can go and lease a new ATS for $299/month (for a moderately equipped model-a little more for a loaded one) with about $3000 due at signing. This lease is so cheap again because they're counting on a very high residual value on the ATS.

turnne
07-15-13, 10:20 PM
I don't know if anyone else remembers this but I remember back when the whole "auto bailout" days were going on, like early 2009 I think it was, that subject did come up, about just that how especially GM had been losing its you know what on the lease residuals and I specifically remember hearing that leasing would never be same again, if there would be leasing at all. Just doing a quick search, I found this article from 2008:

http://www.leftlanenews.com/ford-gm-to-hike-lease-rates-due-to-losses-as-residual-values-fall.html

I remember talking to my parents about it, as they've been leasing new Caddy's for many years and how (as of then) apparently those days were over! Yet, here we are, 4 or 5 years later and leasing seems to be going just the same as it always was, including what I think is one heck of a deal, (and what might keep me from picking up a used STS or CTS-which is why I'm lurking on the forum here!) the deal for the $299/month lease on the ATS. I'm seriously considering an STS, yet I keep thinking I might be nuts when I can go and lease a new ATS for $299/month (for a moderately equipped model-a little more for a loaded one) with about $3000 due at signing. This lease is so cheap again because they're counting on a very high residual value on the ATS.

I think the truth of the matter is that they were losing their A&% on those leases and had been for years

There is not a financial way you could offer those lease payments when the cars were going back from lease return auctions at such low values....and it not be at a loss....or someone explain to me as it sounds lize fuzzy math to make money on cars that had lease residuals that were $12-15K above what the market was bringing on a used one

It was catch 22 though...they had to offer( and still have to) lease payments that are in line with the competitors to move cars
The trouble was the competitors were maintaining a lot more value when the lease return went to auction

But anyway...cars with high resale like the BMW 3 series lease for low rates...they have to have a comparable lease to a 3 series for the ATS to compete


Warren

mzznlink
07-26-13, 09:01 PM
I just picked up a 2005 STS, loaded with 45K miles. Edmonds priced it at 12,500, they wanted 13,000, got it for 12,000.

turnne
07-26-13, 11:06 PM
I just picked up a 2005 STS, loaded with 45K miles. Edmonds priced it at 12,500, they wanted 13,000, got it for 12,000.

hopefully V8 1SG AWD for that price?

I say that because i know where a 2006 $12,900( GM dealer asking price) V8 1SG AWD HUD/ACC with 81K miles is
They have a 2007 1SG V8 with 71K for $15,900 as well( no AWD, HUD/ACC)

I know mileage is HUGE on the value of these cars


Warren

dkozloski
07-26-13, 11:10 PM
All you potential 8 year old car buyers keep in mind that you may be buying a car for around $12,000 but you'll be paying for parts and maintenance on a $60,000 car. You'll be one mechanical catastrophe away from looking for a $1500 beater to drive while you save your pennies to get the Caddy fixed.

turnne
07-27-13, 10:06 AM
All you potential 8 year old car buyers keep in mind that you may be buying a car for around $12,000 but you'll be paying for parts and maintenance on a $60,000 car. You'll be one mechanical catastrophe away from looking for a $1500 beater to drive while you save your pennies to get the Caddy fixed.

and you have just pointed out why these cars traditionally dont "age" well

by that I mean...because of the fast depreciation...many times you get a buyer( who buys it cheap) but cant or won't put the money needed into the car for repairs

think about how many 10 year old caddy's you see driving around with " check ride control" lights( or other warning lights) lit up on the dash


Warren

dkozloski
07-27-13, 08:48 PM
Exactly!

wake
07-28-13, 02:32 PM
All you potential 8 year old car buyers keep in mind that you may be buying a car for around $12,000 but you'll be paying for parts and maintenance on a $60,000 car. You'll be one mechanical catastrophe away from looking for a $1500 beater to drive while you save your pennies to get the Caddy fixed.

Very good point.

I own three older, very expensive to maintain vehicles. The only reason I can afford to own them is I do the work myself and shop around to find the parts much cheaper than a shop would charge. If I had to rely on a shop to repair my vehicles I'd be poor.

I also have a beater car but that is more a snow commuter and mall parking lot vehicle. LOL.

I've spent a lot of money on vehicles and the tools to maintain them over the last couple of decades. A used Tech II cost me $2000 about six years ago but has saved me quite a bit of money with its capabilities and likely paid for itself already. Things like replacing a cam position sensor, factory radio, etc aren't possible without this tool unless you want to pay a dealership $100 a pop each time you need them to hook it up to calibrate the cam position sensor, marry a new body computer or factory radio to the car, etc.

Even a non high-line vehicle will cost a fortune to repair today when you need to replace anything computer related.

turnne
07-29-13, 07:57 PM
Very good point.

I own three older, very expensive to maintain vehicles. The only reason I can afford to own them is I do the work myself and shop around to find the parts much cheaper than a shop would charge. If I had to rely on a shop to repair my vehicles I'd be poor.

I also have a beater car but that is more a snow commuter and mall parking lot vehicle. LOL.

I've spent a lot of money on vehicles and the tools to maintain them over the last couple of decades. A used Tech II cost me $2000 about six years ago but has saved me quite a bit of money with its capabilities and likely paid for itself already. Things like replacing a cam position sensor, factory radio, etc aren't possible without this tool unless you want to pay a dealership $100 a pop each time you need them to hook it up to calibrate the cam position sensor, marry a new body computer or factory radio to the car, etc.

Even a non high-line vehicle will cost a fortune to repair today when you need to replace anything computer related.

you must have over $20K invested in tools alone

I can not imagine how anyone can repair a car at home, today, as technical and ergonomically challenging as luxury cars can be to work on

For example...in the late 90's i owned a 1992 Mercedes S class....under warranty( thank God) I had a very typical issue with the car...a leaking A/C evap core
Mercedes buried the part inside the dash...so the dash had to be completely disassembled to get to the part. Labor( book) was 16 hours to disassemble and replace...then 16 more hours to re assemble the dash

if you know that vintage of Mercedes...140 chassis...there was tons of wood trim, tons of dials and switches that had to be removed and reconnected
I can only imagine all the wires behind the dash

I can't imagine anyone but a trained Mercedes tech having tools at the dealership being able to do that job

and this was a $3500( Mercedes dealer cost) repair in 1999...Like I said mine was done under warranty

So...I dont know what you have...but its hard for me to believe one could repair a car like that...which I call a premium luxury car...at home

I get the fact that an STS is not an S class by any stretch...but I would still think its just something that would be hard to do without a significant invest in both tools, supplies and training


Warren

surgeont
07-29-13, 10:37 PM
how does one know the package designations? 1LG or whatever the different ones are? I bought an 05 STS 8 cylinder with the wheels that have small screws all the way around, and its not a V, but has everything but ACC/HUD option. Its a beautiful dark metallic gray with a tint of blue in it. At least that what Im seeing. Paint is original but in super condition. Beige interior. Nav, auto wipers and other cool stuff. I looked at a light blue V car in Colorado while on vacation a month ago, but with 55K and what sounded like a bad wheel hub assy, very bad wood on the inside, and the 24 K price it scared my wife off. I havent seen the blue V before. I came back to Florida and found this one for a little over 12 but it also had 28K on the odometer and I love the car. I detailed it to the max, changed all the fluids though it had a stack of local Cad dealer service records showing what seemed to me an 8 year old brand new car.

1BadCadSTS
07-29-13, 10:53 PM
how does one know the package designations? 1LG or whatever the different ones are? I bought an 05 STS 8 cylinder with the wheels that have small screws all the way around, and its not a V, but has everything but ACC/HUD option. Its a beautiful dark metallic gray with a tint of blue in it. At least that what Im seeing. Paint is original but in super condition. Beige interior. Nav, auto wipers and other cool stuff. I looked at a light blue V car in Colorado while on vacation a month ago, but with 55K and what sounded like a bad wheel hub assy, very bad wood on the inside, and the 24 K price it scared my wife off. I havent seen the blue V before. I came back to Florida and found this one for a little over 12 but it also had 28K on the odometer and I love the car. I detailed it to the max, changed all the fluids though it had a stack of local Cad dealer service records showing what seemed to me an 8 year old brand new car.

Rpo codes

Based on wheels most likely a 1sf or 1sg

surgeont
07-29-13, 11:01 PM
you must have over $20K invested in tools alone

I can not imagine how anyone can repair a car at home, today, as technical and ergonomically challenging as luxury cars can be to work on

For example...in the late 90's i owned a 1992 Mercedes S class....under warranty( thank God) I had a very typical issue with the car...a leaking A/C evap core
Mercedes buried the part inside the dash...so the dash had to be completely disassembled to get to the part. Labor( book) was 16 hours to disassemble and replace...then 16 more hours to re assemble the dash

if you know that vintage of Mercedes...140 chassis...there was tons of wood trim, tons of dials and switches that had to be removed and reconnected
I can only imagine all the wires behind the dash

I can't imagine anyone but a trained Mercedes tech having tools at the dealership being able to do that job

and this was a $3500( Mercedes dealer cost) repair in 1999...Like I said mine was done under warranty

So...I dont know what you have...but its hard for me to believe one could repair a car like that...which I call a premium luxury car...at home

I get the fact that an STS is not an S class by any stretch...but I would still think its just something that would be hard to do without a significant invest in both tools, supplies and training


Warren

I have always found German cars with their so called superior engineering to be #1 super high cost on replacement parts#2 engineered so you cant work on them w/o special tools and equipment. Make a friend or pay a small price(not a $100) to a shop to analyze computer code, and then do it yourself. If you take care of it, most of the time its only little things anyway and when I cant do it, a local shop gets it done w/o too much cost considering Ive been saving by doing most other stuff myself anyway. So far with the exception of a check engine light on my AWD Rendezvous, It drives great and everything works. I need a drivers window switch ($28 on ebay)and I paid the local repair shop to fix the AWD light so Ill take it back and get him to honor his business. My 02 Bonneville SSEi was the easiest car I ever worked on,that wasnt over 25 years old. I could get to everything, and a hub assy, power window assy, and an A/C compressor were all fairly easy and cheap. One exception is the power roof. Its a pain in the ass and nobody will fix it cheap.

EChas3
07-30-13, 12:05 AM
Roofs are almost always expensive & fussy work, but have you tried a body shop? They often know tricks that the mechanics don't. They really helped reduced some wind noise on my wife's 2007 STS.

wake
07-30-13, 02:21 AM
you must have over $20K invested in tools alone

I can not imagine how anyone can repair a car at home, today, as technical and ergonomically challenging as luxury cars can be to work on...

...I dont know what you have...but its hard for me to believe one could repair a car like that...which I call a premium luxury car...at home

I get the fact that an STS is not an S class by any stretch...but I would still think its just something that would be hard to do without a significant invest in both tools, supplies and training.

Actually I only have about $5000 wrapped up in tools. It's not as complicated as you think, at least on a GM vehicle. I have only a couple of specialty tools, the Tech II and a Northstar waterpump tool. Other than that, lots of different size extensions, lots of different length screw drivers, crow foot wrenches, torque wrenches, etc. If its a tool I only expect to use once or twice I'll go to Harbor Freight or one of the chain auto stores for a cheapy. Other than that, it's Craftsman tools which are good enough. Oh, and the most important tool, A LOT OF PATIENTCE.

I've been inside of every part of a vehicle outside of a manual or automatic transmission.

Training has been learn as you go for me (almost went the ASE mechanic route as a youngin'). It started out with being 16 and not having a car if I didn't get it fixed and put back together. Now I have 4 vehicles so I can afford to have one down for awhile if necessary while I figure out how to fix it or locate the part at a reasonable price. My winter beater has been down for about 3 months as I got the parts to rebuild the front suspension. Hit a snag with aftermarket Monroe struts so I had to learn about the options of working with the camber and caster on the vehicle and a few aftermarket parts to get it true again. I'm hoping to be back on the road with it next week.

Believe it or not, with a good tool like the Tech II and the factory service manuals, the expensive $300 set not the $20 Chiltons or Haynes you can do so much of your own troubleshooting and repairs. The factory manuals even tell you what conditions to test and which options to select on the Tech II in many cases.

I've done the following very cheaply as the result of having the Tech II:

1. Replaced ECM with a tuned unit in my 02 Trailblazer. Able to re-learn cam position sensor and reset theft deterrent system for different ECM. $150 cost for the new ECM and tuning.
2. Installed factory nav into an 02 Trailblazer by telling the BCM that it was an 03 so the Nav option would come on in the tool (wasn't available in 02). Turned it on and it worked just like the factory unit. Reset the theftlock so it would re-marry to my BCM $500 cost for the nav unit.
3. Installed factory nav into an 03 STS that didn't come with it. That was easy since it was an option for that year, also reset theftlock so it would marry to the new BCM. $400 cost for the nav unit.
4. Adjusted tire size on my 05 Escalade since the previous owner put oversize tires on it. No cost.
5. Easily isolated the air bag sensor on my Escalade as well, cost was $82 IIRC for the sensor (no throwing parts at it).
6. Isolated two different faulty wheel speed sensors on my 02 Trailblazer. Cost was $0 there as I had spares from old hubs.
7. Isolated my air compressor on the Escalade as the reason for my SRC light in the dash. $175 to replace.

Outside of what the Tech II did for me I've also done the following with just hand tools and a couple of not so expensive specialty tools:

1. Complete suspension rebuilds on a couple of vehicles (very big $$$ if you have done at a shop).
2. Distributor and water pump assembly on my Corvette.
3. A/C compressor replacements to include vacuuming the system and refilling with R134 afterward.
4. Many complete brake system rebuilds.
5. Rear end rebuild (actually cost me a few bucks to have a shop clean up after me on setting the lash), learning experience but much cheaper in the end still.
6. Various sensor replacements (some Tech II related, most not).
7. Several wheel bearing replacements over several vehicles.
8. Main bearing replacements on the 2nd car I ever owned. Didn't have machine work done but it lasted me another 15K miles before I was able to get a new vehicle. Just did some measuring and bought the closest oversized bearings I could find.
9. Pulled and replaced heads on two vehicles, one old and one DOHC engine.

Now out of that list I gave you. How much do you think that would have cost to have professionally repaired at a shop? I'll venture a guess that it would likely pay for another vehicle.

At least for me cars have never been an issue and I've never been afraid to tackle a problem. I've only had one vehicle that I couldn't get running again and that was due to a very deteriorated wiring harness that would have cost more than the car to replace. Other than that I've been pretty fortunate to be able to fix just about anything I've ever attempted.

If you can afford the time and the possibility of having your vehicle down for a little bit while you learn how to troubleshoot and repair it you can save a fortune.

Paul Reed
08-04-13, 12:32 AM
Just picked up a great condition STS for 14,600...72k, V8, Nav...too much?

Guy.Seminerio
08-04-13, 03:09 AM
Year?

KRSTS
08-04-13, 11:50 AM
If its a 2005 yes, by about a third.

wake
08-06-13, 02:47 AM
Just picked up a great condition STS for 14,600...72k, V8, Nav...too much?

I'd say if you're happy with the vehicle then you didn't pay too much. Maybe you see one in the paper now for $11,000 and think to yourself that you paid too much. Chances are though, that $11K bargain wouldn't be as good as your $14.6K purchase or it would have been selling for higher.

I don't know about the rest of the posters but I pay more for condition of the vehicle than I do the mileage. I've also looked at a second, older STS to try to keep some of the miles off my V (100 mile daily commute). All the 05-07 AWD V8s I've seen have near 100K or more miles on them and cost over $10K. The couple that I've seen were pretty beat up, neglected, etc. Most used cars I've looked at needed a new set of tires as they had either worn or mismatched tires, that ain't cheap either. It also depends on where you live, I know in the D.C. area, and the L.A. area where I spent ten years prior you didn't find these bargain vehicles very often if at all.

I spend a lot of time, wasted time and money driving to look at good deals that are heaps. Too many dealerships describe their vehicles as excellent condition, showroom, etc. Only when I show up I find bad body work, trashed and stained interiors, and even vehicles with SES or Suspension warning lights on. I looked at two non-Cadillac vehicles over the last two weekends that were priced cheaper and described as clean or excellent condition. One vehicle the IPC didn't work and had a stained headliner with holes worn in the dirty carpeting, the other had rust bubbles under the paint from what I suspect may have been a bad body repair and electrical issues. Both vehicles were each one wasted day of a weekend. I'm about done looking for these 'bargains'.

You can get a cheap vehicle and end up spending more money on it than paying a premium for an excellent maintained and cared for vehicle. Quality paint work costs thousands if you need to have the car repainted. Interior pieces cost a fortune if you're trying to replace scratched, scared, or cut up pieces. Suspension work costs a fortune if you need to replace magnetic ride shocks, etc, etc, etc.

----------


If its a 2005 yes, by about a third.

Not to pick on you, but you appear to be in the same general area as I am. Can you point me to some of these $10K STSs that I should be looking at? I've yet to come across one in that price range that isn't ragged-out, beat up, and in need of some expensive work.

I'd love to find an 05 STS for $10K. I'm looking for AWD though so I'd expect to pay a little more than the $10K.

The only ones I've seen in my area in that price range are pretty rough, 150K mile vehicles on corner/wholesale lots.

KRSTS
08-06-13, 11:06 AM
Not to put too fine a point on it, you and I aren't even close to each other. I wasn't particularly talking about local cars, however the dealer retail book on a loaded 2005 V8 is $10,700 in my area and it goes down from there. In fact my dealer has a clean one on his lot right now for $10,990 and I'm sure he would deal. There are several on ebay for around $10K right now. I wouldn't pay that much for a nine year old car. Just my opinion. I guess your research indicates differently.

1BadCadSTS
08-06-13, 11:31 AM
Mileage differs greatly

For kicks I asked my dealer how much my 05 AWD 1SG all options minus ACC/HUD returned to stock would be for on trade and he said 14-15k on trade in.

Its paid off still under warranty until November not a single problem and only has 53,000 so it's not worth trading in toward an ATS yet...

I don't understand everyone's hatred for the 05, the only difference between it and an 06 is the Secure Car feature which I added, an 07 got the 6 speed which isn't that much a difference and 08+ they designed the suckers to look like the CTS which I hate how much my car gets called a CTS as it looks now...

Ludacrisvp
08-06-13, 08:46 PM
Yeah mine is called a CTS often. One guy goes "my buddy has this car but it has the Vette motor in it" ... I've just stopped trying to correct them. But I do prefer the STS front and rear over the CTS greatly. Not a fan of the proportions of the CTS in this body style for the front and rear.


Sent from AutoGuide.com Free App (http://www.autoguide.com/mobile)

EChas3
08-06-13, 10:57 PM
Used car prices vary a lot and STS prices vary even more because the different trim levels produce very different driving experiences. It is very difficult and expensive to add/change features & options.

A very clean and well maintained car has value not always accurately represented in pricing guides. A buyer's preferences may be unique to them.

As long as the price isn't going to change your lifestyle, I wouldn't waste time thinking about it. These are great cars and an absolute kick to drive. Have some fun. Drive it like you stole it.

Congratulations on your purchase.

wake
08-07-13, 01:33 AM
Not to put too fine a point on it, you and I aren't even close to each other. I wasn't particularly talking about local cars, however the dealer retail book on a loaded 2005 V8 is $10,700 in my area and it goes down from there. In fact my dealer has a clean one on his lot right now for $10,990 and I'm sure he would deal. There are several on ebay for around $10K right now. I wouldn't pay that much for a nine year old car. Just my opinion. I guess your research indicates differently.

Close is relative, I drive 50 miles each way to work so 80 isn't a big deal to me. LOL. My 03 STS I drove about 70 miles for and was glad to have done it. I got a clean, fully loaded 42K mile car for $15K from a Caddy dealer of all places back in early 08.

I tend to shy away from non-local cars because unless I can see and drive them I won't take a many thousand dollar gamble on one like eBay vehicles from across the country. I have looked at a few eBay vehicles in the past because they were local to me, all were disappointments and nothing like the listing described or showed. One particularly bad vehicle I looked at I noticed the pictures posted were taken very carefully where you couldn't see the problems/damage. A cut off seat in the pic coincided with a rip in the fabric, cigarette burns in the headliner, shoddy body work, etc.

I took a look again tonight from Richmond to D.C. on autotrader and didn't see anything I'd even go look at for under $10K. The closest thing I'd look at was around 50K miles and those were going for $15K+

I did come across a Silver 90K miles 06 V in Richmond for $19K though if anyone is interested. I'd go look at it if I were in the market but I'd be skeptical at the price, even at 90K miles. I just don't see many under $23K. My 07 V @ 79K miles was $21.6K and I was surprised at how clean it is, if it would have been in the average condition of an 80K mile vehicle I would have passed on it.

As far as spending $10K on a 9 or 10 year old car, you have to look at what you're getting. Sure, it's an older vehicle but it's still 20% or so of what the original owner paid for it. I wouldn't spend $10K on a 10 year old Chevy Malibu but on a clean Cadillac I don't see much wrong there.

On the buyer's side it looks expensive, but as a seller if you paid $60K for it new only to find out it's worth less than $10K later you'd be pretty disappointed, I know I would and that's why I don't buy new vehicles anymore. There are way too many bargains in the used domestic luxury vehicle market.

zlgibby
08-07-13, 11:26 AM
Mileage differs greatly

For kicks I asked my dealer how much my 05 AWD 1SG all options minus ACC/HUD returned to stock would be for on trade and he said 14-15k on trade in.

Its paid off still under warranty until November not a single problem and only has 53,000 so it's not worth trading in toward an ATS yet...

I don't understand everyone's hatred for the 05, the only difference between it and an 06 is the Secure Car feature which I added, an 07 got the 6 speed which isn't that much a difference and 08+ they designed the suckers to look like the CTS which I hate how much my car gets called a CTS as it looks now...

Bad, at least they called it a different CADILLAC and not a Mercury Millan like mine did when I had to tires put on. Lol. I have no problems with my 05.

1BadCadSTS
08-07-13, 11:30 AM
Bad, at least they called it a different CADILLAC and not a Mercury Millan like mine did when I had to tires put on. Lol. I have no problems with my 05.

That's horrible. It would of been bad to of called a CTS a Buick worse yet but a Ford product, that's blasphemy!

Paul Reed
08-07-13, 12:46 PM
I ended up taking it back. They had 2 white stses, one v8, and one v6. The v8 had sold a day prior, and me, not knowing they had to cars that looked exactly alike, went ahead and almost signed for the v6. The processing from the bank was taking too long so they let me take it home under a conditional contract. Safe to say once i started to punch it, i didnt get the performance i desired. Slower than my cts actually. I got out the car, and noticed the N* badge wasnt there. Was a nice car, great condition, but no way in hell im paying 15k for a v6. Back to the drawing board :crying2:

1BadCadSTS
08-07-13, 01:20 PM
Yeah the non DI V6 is a pig, it weighs more than the CTS so it will be slower especially if its an AWD.

The RWD DI V6 supposedly is as fast as the AWD V8 but I have yet to watch a CTS 3.6 DI RWD pass me in my STS....

EChas3
08-07-13, 02:40 PM
Although the DI V6 tops 300 HP it can't pull like a Northstar; its torque is only 20 ft./lbs. greater than the older V6 (272 vs. 252). The V8's 315 is still almost 16% greater and the V has 439 for those that are really concerned with launching these 2-ton luxury touring sedans promptly.

Horsepower is for advertising copy. Car transmissions have torque converters.

All stats c/o Wikipedia:

GM Northstar (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northstar_engine_series)
GM High Feature V6 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GM_High_Feature_engine)

1BadCadSTS
08-07-13, 02:44 PM
"Horsepower sells cars. Torque wins races" - Carroll Shelby

EChas3
08-07-13, 03:03 PM
Even older: There is no replacement for displacement.

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(With apologies to Audi!)

1BadCadSTS
08-07-13, 03:15 PM
Too bad the ultra N* never saw the light of day...

Ludacrisvp
08-07-13, 09:11 PM
HP is how fast you hit the wall, torque is how far you take the wall with you.


Ultra N*?

1BadCadSTS
08-07-13, 10:09 PM
Yup. The UV8. GM green lighted it for 300 million and completed the development however CAFE squashed it and thus never hit production.