: Question about brakes and ABS



carguy16
02-22-05, 09:36 PM
Ok, on the 94 Fleetwood. I plan on replacing the rear shoes first.

Then either replacing the brake lines, or front brakes next.

I found slotted/drilled rotors from NAPA online for $99.00 bucks a piece, and then i wanted to use the http://www.ssbrakes.com calipers and pads, so the front brakes will be in top shape. But, what about the ABS? I know they have some rotors that come with hubs and crap, what would I really need?

Revoh
02-22-05, 10:24 PM
What are you doing with this car? Autocrossing it? Showing it? Driving it to work? As far as I'm concerned, for normal, everyday use, forget the drilled, slotted numbers. I've always heard they're harder on pads anyway. Just getcha some nice normal rotors from NAPA (assuming your's are too far gone to turn them) and some new pads and be done with it.

Do you need to do all that to the rears? My Caprice had 225,000 miles on it, and my rears were fine with just a cleaning. They didn't need anything.

Your lines must be really bad. You've posted this before. That's kind of unusual too. They should last a really long time, if not longer than your car.

Maybe you need all that stuff--it's your car, and you know better--but geez, it seems like you're fixin' to spend a lot of money that I certainly wouldn't be putting down if it were me. :)

carguy16
02-23-05, 04:43 PM
Well Revoh, the other plan of action that I had was to use the factory calipers and replace the rotors with slotted/drilled rotors and metalic pads, as well as replacing the shoes in the back and buying new drums, or having them turned.

I figure cheaper, the rotors and pads for the front will be fine, and the new shoes for the rear will make an improvement in the system.

This is alot cheaper and easier then doing the rear disc conversion which I planned on doing, but since 90 percent comes from the front, it logically makes more sense to work on the front brakes.

As far as Im concerned, slotted rotors may tear the pads up, no big deal. I just have to replace them a little sooner. I want some good brakes, I want better then OEM.

I have a neighbor that agreed to work on the brakes for free, so Im thinking new high performance rotors ($99.00 a piece at NAPA), pads $40.00 bucks, shoes around $40.00 -$60.00 bucks.

I dont know about the steel brakes lines, a mechanic from the Chevy dealer told me they were corroded and about rotten, I have also heard stories on the board. I dont think I can buy the steel lines from NAPA, they have to fabricated from a dealer, how ever it doesnt mean the dealer has to install them.

The pedal is firm, but bringing the car to a stop is not as easy as having a firm pedal.


What are you doing with this car? Autocrossing it? Showing it? Driving it to work? As far as I'm concerned, for normal, everyday use, forget the drilled, slotted numbers. I've always heard they're harder on pads anyway. Just getcha some nice normal rotors from NAPA (assuming your's are too far gone to turn them) and some new pads and be done with it.

Do you need to do all that to the rears? My Caprice had 225,000 miles on it, and my rears were fine with just a cleaning. They didn't need anything.

Your lines must be really bad. You've posted this before. That's kind of unusual too. They should last a really long time, if not longer than your car.

Maybe you need all that stuff--it's your car, and you know better--but geez, it seems like you're fixin' to spend a lot of money that I certainly wouldn't be putting down if it were me. :)

Revoh
02-23-05, 05:33 PM
Don't get me wrong--I'm not trying to give you a hard time. I just don't understand why you think you need to buy all that pretty hardware and hide it behind your wheels. Fleetwoods are relatively powerful, and they're bigola, so I guess brakes can be an issue, but they ain't that powerful. Old people are confusing their accelerators with their brakes every day in these tanks, and they manage not to crack them up every time they scrape their way out of the garage. What are you trying to make out of your car? For normal, everyday driving, the stock setup in good working order is more than sufficient.

I'd go as far as to say that even the rear disk-conversion, for normal driving, is a huge waste for every reason except looks--it looks better. It doesn't work that much better, and why would you be pushing your car that hard on the road that it would ever be an issue anyway?

I'm not trying to be a smartass, so please don't take it that way. It's just that I drive my car every day, and how the brakes work has never been a concern of mine. When they need maintenance, I fix them. That's it. I just don't understand why you would want to spend extra money on these "upgrades" when you could use it to take some chick to dinner or buy something for your car that would really make a difference.

Still, it's your car, and your money, and if putting jewelry in your brake system makes you feel better or safer, it's well worth the money regardless of what some doofus has to say. :eye:

carguy16
02-23-05, 07:52 PM
Revoh, I drive the car mostly city. After driving another car for the past week since the Fleetwood is in the shop, I just want to get them done even more.

I want stopping power, not looks. Im not doing the rear disc conversion, Im putting on some new shoes in the back, and while im at it new rotors and pad's for the front. I dont see why this is a big deal, with these "performance/high quality" items im looking at spending $100.00 - $150.00 bucks more, well worth it.

Which brings me to another question, would Brembo brake rotors be better for $250.00 a set, cross drilled and slotted, or would NAPA's be better, at $99.00 dollars a rotor, times 2 is $200.00 bucks, only a difference of $25.00 bucks a rotor?

All together, this should be less then $300.00 bucks. If I can stop the car faster, then this the upgrade will pay for itself. I do mostly city driving, you say your not trying to be a smart ass, I drive my car, I know how it handles, and I know what I want, and I plan on getting it. I dont have to push the car "hard" to want better brakes.


Don't get me wrong--I'm not trying to give you a hard time. I just don't understand why you think you need to buy all that pretty hardware and hide it behind your wheels. Fleetwoods are relatively powerful, and they're bigola, so I guess brakes can be an issue, but they ain't that powerful. Old people are confusing their accelerators with their brakes every day in these tanks, and they manage not to crack them up every time they scrape their way out of the garage. What are you trying to make out of your car? For normal, everyday driving, the stock setup in good working order is more than sufficient.

I'd go as far as to say that even the rear disk-conversion, for normal driving, is a huge waste for every reason except looks--it looks better. It doesn't work that much better, and why would you be pushing your car that hard on the road that it would ever be an issue anyway?

I'm not trying to be a smartass, so please don't take it that way. It's just that I drive my car every day, and how the brakes work has never been a concern of mine. When they need maintenance, I fix them. That's it. I just don't understand why you would want to spend extra money on these "upgrades" when you could use it to take some chick to dinner or buy something for your car that would really make a difference.

Still, it's your car, and your money, and if putting jewelry in your brake system makes you feel better or safer, it's well worth the money regardless of what some doofus has to say. :eye:

Revoh
02-23-05, 08:59 PM
Sounds good to me. Good luck! :coolgleam

AElayyat
02-23-05, 09:27 PM
Hey carguy, if you are looking for stoping power, I suggest that you get a set of Raybestos ceramic brake pads, I have had no problems with these pads in the past. But as Revoh said, keep it stock, all of that other stuff is a waist of $$$, and if you have problems with the brake lines then put the money for slotted roters toward fixing the brake fluid leaks FIRST.

ocjmakaveli
02-24-05, 05:09 AM
I would suggest slotted rotors but not the ones with the holes they are just fancy.

The best thing is to get THE BEST PADS AVAILABLE I bought some PFC-Z-rated pads for the front and they are great very quiet and they stop very very well.

Honestly though I will say that replacing the rotors period will make the most difference in the braking you only need slotted rotors for High speed braking or constant braking in which you brakes get very hot.

If you plan on going at very high speeds daily then slotted rotors are good Truth is some things are invented because certain people need them :D .

If you want the best pedal feel though a new disc and new pads will set the car right.

Drum are only a pain because you have to adjust them every couple months and although I know how I never did it and that's when drums become useless.

Just make sure to have your drums adjusted every couple months and you'll be fine.

Bottom line normal speeds and average braking, new pads and new discs are enough.

But if you live in a hot location or if you brake hard often get the slotted rotors.

Although most drivers don't notice I did notice some brake fade when I took my 2000 lincoln town car to Texas it was so hot and I guess the brake pads weren't very good(dam dealer parts) I would notice the car wasn't stopping as good as it should've it would keep going a couple feet on some stops no matter how hard i pressed on the brakes but I never had any issues anywhere else. This also only happened when the sun was at it's peak and it was like a 100+ outside.

The one thing I have noticed is brake pads have a LOT to do with the stopping power of a car I've tried about 15 brands all different prices and it seems to me like the MOST EXPENSIVE last the longest and have the most consistent feel and stopping power of all.

Take revoh's advice and keep your budget to a minimum so you can have some money left over and upgrade the rest of your car :D.

Last thing DON'T REPLACE YOUR BRAKE LINES UNLESS THEY ARE LEAKING this is the one honest thing I am going to tell you that no dealer will.

First of all METAL BRAKE LINES Don't burst all of a sudden. if they were rubber and they had a crack then replace them but metal lines ALWAYS RUST NO MATTER what car it is but they are made to last.

don't worry they won't fail on your 1994 MOST 1970's vehicles(and older) still have the original brake lines and they are still working.

The dealer guy was just trying to make business and especially since your young they will try to be slick and "suggest" a lot of seemingly needed stuff which you don't need.

If you replace your brake lines in the rear because of rust then you will need to replace about 80% of the undercarriage too because most of it rusts with time.

Just imagine if you were outside 24/7 for 10 years you'd have some rust on you too lol ;)

Damn my posts are always so long..................c ya

brougham
02-24-05, 01:02 PM
I agree with Revoh. Mine stops just as good as any car I've ever driven. You kept saying before that you needed brake work. Yours probably aren't working right and that's why you think they suck. Just fix them with normal parts and unless you drive like a moron they should be good.

"Drum are only a pain because you have to adjust them every couple months and although I know how I never did it and that's when drums become useless."

If they're adjusted properly you don't have to touch them at all. Drum brakes adjust by themselves. If yours aren't there's something wrong with them.

carguy16
02-24-05, 04:00 PM
That made perfect sense. Steel lines dont burst, they will start leaking first. On the other hand, the rubber lines that actually connect through the brakes would be a bigger priority, if they were old and brittle, because under pressure they can burst(like a balloon?).

I cant find any plain slotted rotors, I just keep finding combo rotors. But, slotted rotors should be enough and they have more surface to them it seems from what I've read.

The only thing Im worried about on the drilled rotors, is cracking. But, I cant seem to find plain slotted rotors on NAPA or advance autoparts...I might call SSBrakes.com and see how much their slotted rotors cost.

I wanted to put synthetic brand fluid in too, since the brakes will have to be bled, Valvoline makes Syntec brake fluid, apparently it dispells moisture, and has a 500 degree boiling point. Looks good to me.


I would suggest slotted rotors but not the ones with the holes they are just fancy.

The best thing is to get THE BEST PADS AVAILABLE I bought some PFC-Z-rated pads for the front and they are great very quiet and they stop very very well.

Honestly though I will say that replacing the rotors period will make the most difference in the braking you only need slotted rotors for High speed braking or constant braking in which you brakes get very hot.

If you plan on going at very high speeds daily then slotted rotors are good Truth is some things are invented because certain people need them :D .

If you want the best pedal feel though a new disc and new pads will set the car right.

Drum are only a pain because you have to adjust them every couple months and although I know how I never did it and that's when drums become useless.

Just make sure to have your drums adjusted every couple months and you'll be fine.

Bottom line normal speeds and average braking, new pads and new discs are enough.

But if you live in a hot location or if you brake hard often get the slotted rotors.

Although most drivers don't notice I did notice some brake fade when I took my 2000 lincoln town car to Texas it was so hot and I guess the brake pads weren't very good(dam dealer parts) I would notice the car wasn't stopping as good as it should've it would keep going a couple feet on some stops no matter how hard i pressed on the brakes but I never had any issues anywhere else. This also only happened when the sun was at it's peak and it was like a 100+ outside.

The one thing I have noticed is brake pads have a LOT to do with the stopping power of a car I've tried about 15 brands all different prices and it seems to me like the MOST EXPENSIVE last the longest and have the most consistent feel and stopping power of all.

Take revoh's advice and keep your budget to a minimum so you can have some money left over and upgrade the rest of your car :D.

Last thing DON'T REPLACE YOUR BRAKE LINES UNLESS THEY ARE LEAKING this is the one honest thing I am going to tell you that no dealer will.

First of all METAL BRAKE LINES Don't burst all of a sudden. if they were rubber and they had a crack then replace them but metal lines ALWAYS RUST NO MATTER what car it is but they are made to last.

don't worry they won't fail on your 1994 MOST 1970's vehicles(and older) still have the original brake lines and they are still working.

The dealer guy was just trying to make business and especially since your young they will try to be slick and "suggest" a lot of seemingly needed stuff which you don't need.

If you replace your brake lines in the rear because of rust then you will need to replace about 80% of the undercarriage too because most of it rusts with time.

Just imagine if you were outside 24/7 for 10 years you'd have some rust on you too lol ;)

Damn my posts are always so long..................c ya

fleetwood76
02-24-05, 05:11 PM
hello. i just want to say that you must be sure that the new brake fluid can be used in yours system. there is some trubbel if you use the new type of brake fluid (silicon based) in old system. I'm not sure that is the case for you but please investigate it with a brake knowingly person.
jolle.

ocjmakaveli
02-24-05, 11:23 PM
I agree with Revoh. Mine stops just as good as any car I've ever driven. You kept saying before that you needed brake work. Yours probably aren't working right and that's why you think they suck. Just fix them with normal parts and unless you drive like a moron they should be good.

"Drum are only a pain because you have to adjust them every couple months and although I know how I never did it and that's when drums become useless."

If they're adjusted properly you don't have to touch them at all. Drum brakes adjust by themselves. If yours aren't there's something wrong with them.

Sorry that's incorrect you HAVE TO and this is a must adjust them for optimal performance to compensate for wear if you DO NOT adjust them then they will wear out unevenly and will not give the full stopping potential.This is a fact not opinion they have to be adjusted so that they contact the drum as evenly as possible.

brougham
02-25-05, 12:38 AM
Sorry that's incorrect you HAVE TO and this is a must adjust them for optimal performance to compensate for wear if you DO NOT adjust them then they will wear out unevenly and will not give the full stopping potential.This is a fact not opinion they have to be adjusted so that they contact the drum as evenly as possible.

Wrong!! Like I said- they're made to adjust by themselves. If yours don't there's something wrong with them. Don't believe me go look in the service manual- "Adjustment for both the primary and secondary shoe and linings is automatic during reverse brake applications."