: s/s fuel rail removal to get to EGR...



1996deVille
02-22-05, 03:23 PM
Hi all,

I'm new to the forum and have a question...

I have a '96 deVille and a s/s fuel rail has just been installed with the recall.

The car is having low speed driveability problems and I want to clean the EGR as a first step in solving this problem. The challenge, of course, is that the s/s fuel rail must be lifted to gain access to the EGR. I've removed the pcv tubing and removed the 4 mtg bolts that hold the rail in place.

The question: HOW HARD does one "pry" to lift the fuel rail/injector assembly?

I've never lifted this assembly before and want to make sure that I don't break the unit...

Any help will be greatly appreciated!!!

haymaker
02-22-05, 04:18 PM
The new rail is easy to remove after you have removed the four long retaining bolts from the intake manifold. Use your hands and work your way around the rail pulling up about a at a time at any given position until the entire rail is free. The new S/S fuel rail is very rigid and thus the need to remove it a little at a time. At installation start all the injectors into their intake manifold holes then push each side down to completely seat them all the way. The installation lubricate is probably still on the fuel injector O-rings to aide in the rails removal and installation.
BTW why do you want to remove the EGR valve? Is an EGR problem code being set? Most of the people that have had a problem after the fuel rail recall have had a problem with old plug wires causing a misfire because of the old wires being disturbed during the S/S fuel rails installation (P0300 code).

Good luck.

haymaker
02-22-05, 04:23 PM
Almost forgot.
Be sure you have removed the retaining nut from the forward stud-bolt at the EGR valve before you try an remove the fuel rail.

1996deVille
02-22-05, 04:47 PM
Thanks for the reply Haymaker...

I was reading your answer to the "97" question below and am glad you answerd my question.

Do you think the wires and plugs are the problem - would you go that route first? I pulled the plugs to check for color and all 8 looked good. Should I replace the wires first, or do the plugs and wires together? And, is there a lub to use with the plugs - I read something on this in the shop manual...

Also, do you think I should stay with Delco plugs and wires, or do the other sets work as well?

Thanks so much for answering - the car sits in waiting in my carport!

mcowden
02-22-05, 05:51 PM
Go with the Delco plugs and wires. AC-Delco 41-950 plugs and AC-Delco wire set 748J is what you will need. The best prices I've seen are at www.rockauto.com, and it will be about $170-$180 delivered to you door. Are there any codes set in the computer, maybe a PC0300? Getting a SES light on the dash? How many miles are on the car? There have been multiple posts in the past from people who had the SS fuel rail installed and started having misfires shortly afterward. Plugs and wires were recommended for most of them and I don't remember anybody returning to say that didn't fix it. The general consensus seems to be that the wires can become prone to failure after being disturbed for the SS fuel rail installation.

Hope that does it for you... Good luck and let us know what you do and how it works out.

1996deVille
02-22-05, 06:54 PM
MC,

The car has 113K... the SES came on after I went out and gave it a few WOT's on the freeway. I had just cleaned the intake plate and forgot to reset the idle by pulling the - batt. term for 1 minute - so I did that. I guessed the SES had to do with that...? It very easily could have been something else.

I've also put a water pump in as of last month - the system's pressure stays good - so good in fact that the cap has lots of vacuum the next morning when cold!!! I don't think I have a head gasket problem.

I also took the plugs out to check for gap and clean... the gap was .06 on all 8, .010 over - they're probably the orig. plug and wire set...

...so I may have created the condition by checking the plugs!!!

I'm going to replace the plugs and wires tomorrow. If that doesn't solve the problem I'll go after the ERG - but, I believe the ERG would show up in the mid-range as well, not just at idle...???

I'll know more tomorrow and post the results.

Thanks to all attempting to help!

bcs296
02-22-05, 08:44 PM
MC,

The car has 113K... the SES came on after I went out and gave it a few WOT's on the freeway. I had just cleaned the intake plate and forgot to reset the idle by pulling the - batt. term for 1 minute - so I did that. I guessed the SES had to do with that...? It very easily could have been something else.

I've also put a water pump in as of last month - the system's pressure stays good - so good in fact that the cap has lots of vacuum the next morning when cold!!! I don't think I have a head gasket problem.

I also took the plugs out to check for gap and clean... the gap was .06 on all 8, .010 over - they're probably the orig. plug and wire set...

...so I may have created the condition by checking the plugs!!!

I'm going to replace the plugs and wires tomorrow. If that doesn't solve the problem I'll go after the ERG - but, I believe the ERG would show up in the mid-range as well, not just at idle...???

I'll know more tomorrow and post the results.

Thanks to all attempting to help!

I'd agree - with the .010 over there's a good chance they're the originals. It's amazing the improvements that can be made with this simple job... good luck.

Ranger
02-22-05, 11:06 PM
I think you can rule out the EGR as I don't believe there is any EGR flow at idle. When I had the fuel rail change done and developeda misfire I went for the plugs. When I found them to be .010 over I thought I had solved the problem. No joy. A new set of wires from rockauto did the trick.

1996deVille
02-23-05, 10:41 AM
I'm ordering plugs and wires... so I'm sitting here at the computer and a thought came to mind.

If anyone goes through the problem of lifting the fuel rail I think there's an easy fix to EGR cleaning/replacement. Upon its first extraction open out the mtg. hole in the fuel rail capture at the point where it grabs the smaller dia. thread to .250. (front bolt on EGR body). Then replace the stock bolt with a std 10mm head and make a (guessing - .156) washer to fit under the fuel rail mtg bracket. Tighten down the bolt on top of the assembly and you're there!

I believe there is enough lateral movement in the system to rock forward to get the EGR assembly out - but there's not enough give to move the bracket up and over the stock bolt/nut assembly...

... just my two cents, your mileage may vary.

Much success to all - I'll post in a few hours as to the plug/wires fix.

1996deVille
02-23-05, 09:51 PM
Plugs and wire set fixed the problem!!!

Thanks to all the forum members helping me with this concern...

Much success!

haymaker
02-23-05, 10:47 PM
Plugs and wire set fixed the problem!!!

Thanks to all the forum members helping me with this concern...

Much success!
Glad it all worked out for you. There are a bunch of very helpful people here.

mcowden
02-24-05, 11:33 AM
Plugs and wire set fixed the problem!!!

Excellent news! Glad to hear that worked for you. Out of curiosity, and if you don't mind my asking, what was the total price for the Delco plugs and wires? Assuming you got them from Rockauto?

Another happy customer... :thumbsup: Hopefully that'll keep you up and running like a sewing machine for a long time.

1996deVille
02-24-05, 02:33 PM
Good question on $$$.

I did some research on plug/wire sets and found that Autolite does indeed make a plug/wire combination that is designed under the same specs as Delco.

The wire set was $102.00 and the plugs were $3.99/ea. So, with tax it came out to about $140.00.

The system worked well with the Autolite parts in my case, your mileage may vary...

Much success!

Ranger
02-24-05, 05:42 PM
It has been a few months now but as I recall I got my wires for $122 shipped (in 2 days) from Rockauto.