: Will the 4th generation Sevilles become collectible soon?



orconn
07-08-13, 05:28 PM
They are certainly unique looking and have good performance parameters for a personal luxury car. Many think them to be really beautiful cars, but will they become collectible as they become more and more scarce in the used car marketplace? Do they ever show up at Cadillac shows?

Submariner409
07-08-13, 05:43 PM
They'll probably never be worth anything much - there's nothing special to set them apart, and there were a skrillion made. Nice cars, but about as collectible as a Lexus 400.

I know a Crimson Pearl one that shows up at the Kent Island Cruisers shows for different benefit organizations - our VFD, for one. (Everything from Model T's to Ferraris to 60's muscle cars to Cadillacs is usually at the shows - fun - swap meets, too)

Ranger
07-08-13, 09:58 PM
If they ever do become collectable (doubtful), you, I and Sub won't be around to see it.

Jesda
07-08-13, 10:48 PM
Motor Trend has declared them classics. Will the market follow? Who knows.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
07-08-13, 11:43 PM
What are some older Cadillacs that have gained true "classic" status that enthusiasts didn't think would make it?

orconn
07-09-13, 12:05 AM
^^^ Chad, there are too many to count! No body would have thought the "gaudy" 1959 pancake top Cadillac would ever be desirable. They were throw aways all through the sixties and well into the seventies when the convertibles began to be bargain collectibles.

Jesda
07-09-13, 12:49 AM
The bustleback Seville has found itself a dedicated following after being hated by many for decades.

I just made a $7000 offer on a 92 STS.

cadillac kevin
07-09-13, 01:00 AM
The bustleback Seville has found itself a dedicated following after being hated by many for decades.

I just made a $7000 offer on a 92 STS.
7k? it better be brand new! and bright red or emerald green

I~LUV~Caddys8792
07-09-13, 01:03 AM
I think your $7,000 offer just guaranteed you a purchase. You're what we in this business call a "lay down"!

Jesda
07-09-13, 01:15 AM
7k? it better be brand new! and bright red or emerald green

Seller is being a bit reluctant. It's pearl white with 49k and new tires.

I've bid 6k and he's reluctant to end the auction early (2 days to go), so I may just end up with it for a bit less.

77CDV
07-09-13, 01:31 AM
I expect they'll become "special interest automobiles". Not truely collectible in the sense of being worth mad money, but an old car with a devoted following.

orconn
07-09-13, 01:42 AM
^^^ I agree Craig, I don't see them ever going for huge sums. Look at the Jaguars in the marketplace they are very desirable as a collector car but still bring less than restoration costs in the marketplace and plenty of good survivors can be had for really very little.

Ranger
07-09-13, 11:27 AM
The bustleback Seville has found itself a dedicated following after being hated by many for decades.

I'm still in that camp. Never did like them.

ryannel2003
07-09-13, 12:55 PM
Since I was the one who found Jesda the '92 STS I think I should get some kind of prize. You can just drive to NC and let me drive it for a few days lol.

and as far as the thread title goes... yes I do think they will be collectibles. Most of the 4th Gen's I see now are ragged or have high miles. The others ended up in junkyards thanks to the HG problem. Cars with low miles will command a premium.

drewsdeville
07-09-13, 02:05 PM
Condition wanes and miles rack up as a car ages. Cars in better condition than others fetch a better price. That's the way it is. None of this is Seville specific. The other common misconception is that rarity increases desirability or demand. It doesn't. There are plenty of worthless rare goods out there. Most of the current classic Cadillac's aren't all that desirable or sought after relative to many other vehicles of their time. You can still pick up good classic Cadillacs for little money. Why the 4th Gen would deviate from that norm is beyond me.

orconn
07-09-13, 03:03 PM
Many of the "personal Luxury" cars of the last four decades have led their contemporaries into the leagues of collectible automobiles. By collectible, I don't mean they command "mega bucks," but rather they a following that cares about finding and buying good ones for the purpose of personal enjoyment.

I don't think it is a major mind twister to see why many personal luxury cars have become collectible cars. Two seat Thunderbirds as well as early Buick Rivieras, Cadillac Eldorados and convertibles, Olds Toronados and Starfires, sixties and even seventies Thunderbirds, to mention a few, have all been collected in recent years. It would seem to me that some twenty year old personal luxury cars from the nineties would begin to be collected both because of nostalgia, but in some cases because of their attractive design and performance. I would think the Eldorado and the Riviera of that period along with the Seville would begin gaining a following among enthusiast and collectors.

Stingroo
07-09-13, 03:08 PM
Lots of cars that aren't the best-of-the-best have a following.

People collect Citation X-11s.


Not really a strange phenomenon.

HAZZARDJOHN
07-09-13, 03:31 PM
I must confess, I have a bit of a liking for the X-11. I know it was a crap car, but I like it for some wierd reason. Not something I want to drive, but just to have in the corner of my garage to point at when people visit.

brandondeleo
07-09-13, 03:43 PM
By collectible, I don't mean they command "mega bucks," but rather they a following that cares about finding and buying good ones for the purpose of personal enjoyment.
I'm sure almost every car has a following. People collect anything, and as I've always said "there's an ass for every seat." Yeah, it's a nice car, but there's nothing special to really set it apart from anything else.

ted tcb
07-09-13, 07:46 PM
Good luck with your bid, Jesda.
I'm guessing you are valuing the dry Arizona pedigree, the 4.9 motor, and the low mileage on this Ebay car, thus the premium price?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/STS-/360690030143?_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&forcev4exp=true#ht_500wt_743
(http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/STS-/360690030143?_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&forcev4exp=true#ht_500wt_743)
The 2002 STS, with tint and newer STS wheels, would look amazing.

Hope you are successful in your bid.




The bustleback Seville has found itself a dedicated following after being hated by many for decades.

I just made a $7000 offer on a 92 STS.

STS_Seville_Hunter
07-10-13, 12:10 AM
Minty '92? I like where this is going...

truckinman
07-10-13, 10:14 AM
I definitely don't see it becoming a collectible in the sense that a 1955 Mercedes SL Gullwing or a 1966 jaguar XKE. But as some have said, in the sense that every kind of car has a following, I'm sure SOME will collect them, but that doesn't necessarily make it a collectible.

I think the last "collectible" Cadillac produced would be the Allante. Maybe in 20 years, the XLR will be a collectible, but since the mid 90s, Cadillac hasn't really made a car that truly sets itself apart from any other middle of the road luxury car.

Just my 0.02

Jesda
07-10-13, 10:51 AM
CTS-V for being a four-door Corvette

XLR/XLR-V. Heather Locklear looked hot driving one:
http://www.imcdb.org/i042702.jpg

To a lesser degree, STS-V and Eldorado. So many Eldorados were built that people who covet them can easily find a shiny example, so values will remain low for a while. Cadillac has said that parts of the last-gen Eldo have influenced the styling of cars like the 08+ CTS.

truckinman
07-10-13, 10:57 AM
CTS-V for being a four-door Corvette

XLR/XLR-V. Heather Locklear looked hot driving one:

To a lesser degree, STS-V and Eldorado. So many Eldorados were built that people who covet them can easily find a shiny example, so values will remain low for a while. Cadillac has said that parts of the last-gen Eldo have influenced the styling of cars like the 08+ CTS.

The V's slipped my mind. Lol.

HAZZARDJOHN
07-10-13, 11:51 AM
I argue that cadillac hasn't made a car that is "collectible" since about 1964 (even that is a stretch as 1963-64 caddy's are relatively cheap compared to other 63-64 cars). My criteria is a car that is a proven investment and money maker. Like the guys who bought Chevelles in the early 90's for 8K and can now sell them for 50K+. I know a guy who bought a 69 dodge charger R/T SE in 1999 for 15K that had 40K miles and a sunroof. Everyone thought he was nuts as that was very high retail. That same car is appraised in the neighborhood of 60K with him doing nothing other than storing it and driving it maybe three times a year. When he tells people he bought it for 15K now they high five him.

I can buy really nice examples of late 60's and early 70's cadillacs for sub 15K all day long. As a matter of fact paying more than 10K for one I would think your wallet is bigger than your brain. Cadillacs just do not hold there value, and traditionally they were well taken care of with low miles, therefore the market is flooded with premium examples. Look at the value of say a 1970 Coupe Deville versus say a Buick GS Coupe, both loaded up. The 1970 cadillac coupe at it's highest could be had for 12-15K. A Buick GS coupe at it's highest, would probably be well over 30K for a premium example. I am just pulling these numbers out of the ether but I think they are about right.


This might change with the V, but I think the V is going to suffer the same fate as the mustang shelby and the new challenger. There are litterally thousands of them in storage that people bought with the intention of selling for a huge profit when they retire. I bet they will be worth what they were new if they are lucky. 94-96 Impalas are a prime example. On ebay there are a few at all times with less than 5K miles and they are lucky if they sell for 18K (and that's high IMO) and they sold new for around 25K. That's ten years of storage, maintenance and insurance to lose at least 8K of your initial investment.

This isn't neccesarily bad news if you like the seville, you will always be able to find gems like Jesda just found and you won't have to mortgage the house to get them.

I only used american cars as I think it is unfair to compare the collectibility in America of Cadillacs to rare european cars. They are obviously more collectible just in the rare factor.

bigm57ict
07-10-13, 12:40 PM
I see that we are talking about several different definitions of "collectible"
I don't see a car worth 50K as a "collectible" car because I couldn't afford to collect very many (or any) :)

HAZZARDJOHN
07-10-13, 12:48 PM
I just use the value as collectible, you can collect anything, belly button lint, girls phone numbers, tears of the oppressed, but value is what in my mind makes something worthy of being called collectible. I can't afford 50K either, which is good because I love cars that are not as desirable. I will collect them for my own enjoyment, but are they collectibles or just a collection of cars. It is like this 81 Ford escort Wagon on CL in minnesota, it is not collectible, but someone took care of it for a throw away car to make it 32 years in this condition.

http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/hnp/cto/3898947379.html

It is even arguably rarer than most cars of this era because most of them have been crushed and sent to china to make lead paint covered toys. But is it a Collectible? IMO no.

orconn
07-10-13, 02:40 PM
"Collectible" does not necessarily have the term "investment value" as part of its' definition in my mind. Almost all things have their day as investments. I look on "collectible" as something I enjoy having for its' value to me for its' beauty, usefulness and or for the pleasure it brings. I have plenty of other more potentially profitable places to put cash in the hopes of investment profits.

HAZZARDJOHN
07-10-13, 03:05 PM
Well if that's the definition then if you like the fourth gen seville, yes it's collectible. If you like old toothbrushes from your neighbor's trash, that is collectible too. /thread.

talismandave
07-10-13, 04:25 PM
I think it is a mistake to look at collector cars as an investment. There are many things that someone could have done with $15,000 in 1999 that would have returned great rewards. Most of them would not be deemed "collectable" in any sense. Facebook's IPO would be one. The stories of someone buying and reselling a car for high reward has led many down the rabbit hole. The Ferrari bubble of the late 80's early 90's comes to mind.

There will always be things that cause a car to be suddenly the latest flavor in collecting and driving high prices. Then more come out of the woodwork and are restored and suddenly the market is sated. It has always been and will always be. To be truly a collectable car to the true enthusiasts the car has to have been significant to, or emblematic of the state of the industry at the time. IMO

gdwriter
07-10-13, 05:25 PM
I think it is a mistake to look at collector cars as an investment.Agreed. I only paid $3,000 for Betty in 1999, but I've probably spent $30,000 in restoration, repairs and updates over the past 14 years. But Betty is not an investment, and I have no intention of ever selling her.

There has been a lot of stupid money driving the collector car market, particularly in muscle cars. The Challenger and 'cuda were marketplace flops in the early 70s and generally considered a poorly built, poorly running POS, but for some reason, they were commanding six and seven figures at Barrett-Jackson (which is the last place I'd ever buy a classic car).

I really like the 61-64, 71-72 and 77-79 DeVille, and there are definitely some good buys to be made on older Cadillacs. Collectable? Probably not. Classic? I'd say so. There's something to be said for owning, driving and enjoying an old car.

HAZZARDJOHN
07-10-13, 05:26 PM
But without looking at it as an investment than any car period is collectible. Return on investment is the only marker that can be measured. It doesn't mean you'd sell it, just it increased in value more than inflation. I don't think many cadillacs will fall in this category. I love Cadillac, but I am wierd, if I was normal I would love Chevelles, and big motors (I do, but I like all cars) and think Cadillacs, Lincolns, and any other luxo car is an oldman's car. My Dad's 66 impala convertible was more common than my Cadillac and yet is still brought about 10K more than a similar condition and year Cadillac convertible would. That makes it more collectible IMO. It increased 10K in value in 8 years. If it was a Straight six 3 on the tree four door, I would think it was cool, but is it collectible? Not really, just a fun Classic.

Again if we are just going to use whether the owner likes the car or not as a marker, then I love 86-88 Ford Rangers, that makes them Collectible under that rule. So this thread would be pointless. By that thought if you like fourth gen sevilles then they are collectible.

I would rather look at it this way, Fourth Gen Sevilles will be bargain classics someday. If you like sevilles when they are a classic you will be able to pick them up for cheap all day long. Great for the buyer. If my cadillac was frame off resto'd it would be worth about 7K. To me that is a lot of car and a great classic for a bargain price. It sold new for 10K so after 38 years it is still worth less that what it was new, and that isn't even adjusted for inflation. Is it collectible, or a cheap classic?

Full disclosure, I have collectors plates on my Caddy 8-I

orconn
07-10-13, 06:01 PM
98% of old cars bought as "investments" yield no profitable return to the owners when cost of insurance, storage, restoration, and maintenance are figured into the true cost of owning the vehicle until it is sold.

HAZZARDJOHN
07-10-13, 06:24 PM
Maybe I need to rephrase this, if the value of the car is not increasing more than indflation (regardless of maintenence insurance yada) than IMO it is not collectible. Again if we are going to define collectible as the owner enjoys it, than this thread is pointless. If you enjoy sevilles, they are collectible. /thread. Value is a gauge of public opinion and collectibility. if the car is increasing in value more than just inflation, it is collectible. People today are willing to pay more for the car than they were ten years ago, making it worth collecting. Whether you spent 30K storing it in a missle silo is irrelevent. Whether you make money is irrelevent. Is the car worth more as the years go on? (Adjusted for inflation) If not I argue it is not collectible it is a classic or a toy.

77CDV
07-10-13, 06:29 PM
To quote Mr. Justice Potter, "I can't define it, but I know it when I see it." :lol:

talismandave
07-10-13, 10:21 PM
Market value of a car at a given time is a way to judge collectability of a vehicle. To state it is the way to do it is where we part way on the issue.

It would miss a huge segment of the collectors market. Some of the most active communities of collector are the VW and Corvair enthusiasts. There were millions of them made so decent ones are always available at reasonable prices but yet there is always a demand for and very active marketplace for them. There are thousands more people trading in these cars than in what your definition of collectible cars would be. Highly collectible, yet low dollar, (and low ROI). Still very actively traded and collected.

American Motors/Rambler collectors would probably have a disagreement with your definition too! Very fervent collectors market for low dollar cost and return.

Jesda
07-11-13, 03:15 AM
It's collectible if people are collecting it. Some people collect dolls. Those are worthless to me but I guess people collect them, therefore they are collectible.

Value is a slightly different but related issue.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
07-11-13, 08:52 AM
As many of you know, I collect automotive brochures. I have every full line Cadillac brochure available from 1956 to 1996. Many of the Cadillac brochures aren't worth a lot, even though they offer lots of information and pictures, they simply don't have the demand that you'd see for a brochure for a '60s era muscle car. However, there is a huge demand for the Cadillac brochures from the late '50's. For example, the 1956 master catalog is a beautiful, huge 12 x 12" catalog, with thick covers and many pages with beautiful illustrations and much text. I have an example in good condition and I think I paid like $90 for it. It's worth that because it's such a well-done brochure!

Now, the 1957 deluxe catalog is a more normal size, probably 8x10, and even with fewer pages and a smaller size, it's worth way more because of it's rarity, because Cadillac also made a much smaller foldout brochure that was much more common new. I had a very hard time finding the deluxe catalog and when I did, I ended up paying $148 for it, but knowing how rare it is and it being a favorite year of mine, I had to jump at the opportunity. Just to compare, I only paid $75 for an original 1959 brochure in the same size, but in better condition!

bigm57ict
07-11-13, 12:28 PM
I would add that in addition to value, rarity can be a factor.
The fun of collecting (I'm not just talking cars here) is finding that rare, hard to find version, regardless of it's resale value.
Many car enthusiasts take great pride in a car with rare or unusual options. Even if they don't make it a candidate for Barrett Jackson.

A '60's muscle car with a straight six and radio delete, that hasn't been modified, is a rare find. I've seen these displayed with great pride and even win prizes. Highly valuable? Not usually.

ted tcb
07-11-13, 07:49 PM
So, Jesda, I see your STS sold for $6000.

Were you the winning bidder?

If so, congratulations!

Hoosier Daddy
07-11-13, 08:12 PM
Yeah. Did you get it?

DBA-One
07-11-13, 09:48 PM
I don't see these being collector cars to anyone other than someone who likes them. Cars that increase in value seem to only be owned by anyone but myself. Something like an Allante may turn out to be valuable in the future but I don't know why anyone would buy anything but a '93.

Jesda
07-12-13, 11:00 PM
Yeah. Did you get it?


So, Jesda, I see your STS sold for $6000.

Were you the winning bidder?

If so, congratulations!

Yep! Leaving tomorrow to go pick it up and drive it home.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
07-12-13, 11:27 PM
I'll drink a :shiner: to that!

orconn
07-12-13, 11:34 PM
Your status has changed from Seville owner emeritus to current Seville owner. Congratulations!

Jesda
07-13-13, 12:10 AM
This one actually belongs to our dealership. If it doesn't sell I'd be very happy to buy it and keep it.

ben.gators
07-13-13, 12:24 AM
If I am not mistaken, '92 comes with 4.9L engine, right? Did you want to buy the 4.9L engine, or this was just the only clean 4th STS out there and that is why you bought it?

MoistCabbage
07-13-13, 12:31 AM
Yup, 4.9. The STS got the Northstar in '93, the SLS in '94.

CadillacLuke24
07-13-13, 02:25 AM
BUY IT JESDA Buy it NOW

MoistCabbage
07-13-13, 02:30 AM
Post #45.

Jesda
07-13-13, 07:02 AM
If I am not mistaken, '92 comes with 4.9L engine, right? Did you want to buy the 4.9L engine, or this was just the only clean 4th STS out there and that is why you bought it?

The dependable 4.9 makes this one particularly desirable.

ted tcb
07-13-13, 10:55 PM
Jesda, do you have a link to your dealership?

I'd love to check out the inventory.


This one actually belongs to our dealership. If it doesn't sell I'd be very happy to buy it and keep it.

CadillacLuke24
07-14-13, 01:48 AM
Post #45.

I know "he" bought it. Mr. Gulati's name actually needs to appear on the title.

Aron9000
07-14-13, 05:36 AM
I would add that in addition to value, rarity can be a factor.
The fun of collecting (I'm not just talking cars here) is finding that rare, hard to find version, regardless of it's resale value.
Many car enthusiasts take great pride in a car with rare or unusual options. Even if they don't make it a candidate for Barrett Jackson.

A '60's muscle car with a straight six and radio delete, that hasn't been modified, is a rare find. I've seen these displayed with great pride and even win prizes. Highly valuable? Not usually.

This, I love weirdly optioned cars and color combos.

Seems like with a lot of the muscle cars people will take that basic butternut yellow 6 cylinder Camaro, put a v8 in it, rally gagues, 4 on the floor, add the extrachrome trim, paint it grey(or if it was the 90's red), change the interior from tan to black, put some bigger wheels/tires on it, then it looks like the other 7 Camaros that came out for cruise night.

Jesda
07-14-13, 05:38 AM
Jesda, do you have a link to your dealership?
I'd love to check out the inventory.

http://www.rippemotors.com/

We're still experimenting with the business. We were at another dealership which closed so we've moved on and partnered up with someone I know who started his own shop.

Recently acquired and/or not listed on the site:
99 LS400, 02 Yukon Denali, 03 Miata, 88 Subaru XT, 88 Subary Legacy Outback, 02 Camaro vert, 96 Cobra vert, Lexus RX, 08 Escalade AWD, Escalade hybrid, 08 Mini Clubman S, Porsche Cayman, and an M6.

ben.gators
07-14-13, 06:33 AM
http://www.rippemotors.com/

We're still experimenting with the business. We were at another dealership which closed so we've moved on and partnered up with someone I know who started his own shop.

Recently acquired and/or not listed on the site:
99 LS400, 02 Yukon Denali, 03 Miata, 88 Subaru XT, 88 Subary Legacy Outback, 02 Camaro vert, 96 Cobra vert, Lexus RX, 08 Escalade AWD, Escalade hybrid, 08 Mini Clubman S, Porsche Cayman, and an M6.

When I was shopping for my fun car, I went to all dealerships on Oahu. I found two used car dealerships that had a very interesting business model and as a result they are very special and very successful. These two dealerships focus on fun, interesting, sports cars. They sell cars like 330ci, GTO, A4, Audi TT, A5, M3, MB AMG, V1, V2, XLR, Mustang GT, G8, Camaro SS, Challenger, Impreza, different models of Porsche, G35/G36 coupe, Z350/Z370, you name it.... Basically if someone on the island wants to buy a fun, sports car, he first goes to these two dealerships! Sure enough fun, sports car is just one segment of the market. However, there are tons of regular dealerships out there who sell regular cars. With this business model, these two dealerships could separate themselves from the rest and now they have a very unique condition. Most of their cars are overprices, but interestingly they have no problem in selling these overpriced cars!

Do you have thought about such strategies for your dealership? Focusing more on one special segment of the market, e.g. sports car, or affordable and desirable classic cars?

Jesda
07-14-13, 06:56 AM
So far cars with a cult following (Jeeps), mint near-classics (70s), super clean late model (1998+) luxury cars, and even mundane mainstream sedans packaged with warranties and easy financing have generated a profit.

We're slowly honing in on our niche. Easy financing on reliable, everyday cars is a sure strategy but it would be less paperwork and much more fun to sell interesting, clean, or sought after modern classics.

ted tcb
07-14-13, 11:09 AM
That 98 LS400 surely would've tempted me if I lived in the US. That generation of LS is becoming harder
to find, and is much more appealing to me than the bloated LS430.

Best of luck with your interest in the dealership ... have you left the world of books?

I~LUV~Caddys8792
07-14-13, 12:03 PM
Welcome to the wide world of auto sales Jesda. I wonder how different it is being at a small lot like that, compared to being in a big dealership like I am. I'd imagine it's much more laid back and casual. Is that true?

truckinman
07-14-13, 03:01 PM
Are those bead locks in that Jaguars wheels, Jesda? If so I just never knew anything other than hard core offroaders had bead locks.

Stingroo
07-14-13, 03:24 PM
Those look purely cosmetic, really.

orconn
07-14-13, 04:53 PM
I guess I misspoke when I asked the question will the 4th generation Seville become "collectible." but it has been interesting to hear the different interpretations of the word or category as view by different people. I perhaps should have said is the 1992 though 1997 4th generation Seville likely to be thought of as a "classic" in the near future.

Being of an older generation the term "classic" when applied to a car means an automobile that has a design that is truly outstanding, which conveys the purpose and type of motor vehicle it is in such a pure way that it stands out above all the rest in its' category. To many of us "classic" means only a high quality car that was produced during the nineteen thirties and forties and everything else that is shown at car shows are really just collectibles not classics. I would disagree with this old point of view, but would also say that many of the so called "collectible" cars of today are not "classics." Most of the so called "muscle cars" are certainly collectible and have such motivated collectors that they demand ridiculously high prices. But I would never call examples of these muscle cars "classics."

The Brits back in the early 1980's began calling any old car that would put put a "classic." Such fifiteis wonders as Hillman Minx and Vauxhall sedans, not too mention Morris Minors were being called classics. The later in the eighties the term started being used in America to describe just about anything that was old and brought a wisp of nostalgia to the viewer was being called a classic. For me old fifties cars, with one or two exceptions are collectible cars by no means classics.

Most of us would concede that a 1937 Cord or an Auburn boat tail roadster is a classic, or many cadillacs of that era (primarily those with coachbuilt bodies) as well as Packards. Certainly the Forties Lincoln Continentals would qualify as would some Cadillacs and Packards. A 1946 Chevrolet or '48 Ford Fordor or a Studebaker Commander sedan would not.

There have been a few cars that I think could qualify as true classics that have been made since the "Golden Era" of classic cars of the thirties. The 1956-57 Continental Mark II comes to mind as does the Eldorado Brougham of the same time period. Some of the personal luxury cars of the sixties like the Buick Riviera and the Olds Tornado and certainly the late sixties Cadillac Eldorados. The first series Seville of the seventies have ben mentioned also as have the second generation Camaros and Firebirds. There are potential candidates in the eighties as well. It is in this light that I have come to think of the fourth generation Seville as being a car that may well come to be considered a "classic" of its era.

cadillac kevin
07-14-13, 05:56 PM
Under that description, I would consider the 4th gen seville a classic. It's styling is still fresh looking 20 years later. I also believe the first gen aurora will be classic. It looked futiristic when new, and is IMO a rolling piece of art (on the outside anyways....the inside had a cool (for the time) design, but the material quality was a letdown).

truckinman
07-15-13, 01:23 AM
Those look purely cosmetic, really.

Right, but even just for cosmetic reasons, I'm surprised to see them on a sports car. I mean on a jeep or something like that, they allow for extremely low air pressure, like 10 or less psi, for better grip on rocks and a wider foot print in mud and snow, with out the tire debeading itself. But just doesn't look right on a sports car. Unless there's a reason that sports cars use them that I'm not aware of in racing or something. But I just doubt in a race they'd want low psi. Lol.

MoistCabbage
07-15-13, 01:40 AM
Those aren't supposed to look like bead locks, they're nowhere near the bead of the rim, and there's no fake lock ring. They might have been going for a simulated multi piece rim, but it doesn't even come close to pulling it off.

Most likely, it's just part of the design, and not intended to simulate anything.

Jesda
07-15-13, 04:33 AM
Welcome to the wide world of auto sales Jesda. I wonder how different it is being at a small lot like that, compared to being in a big dealership like I am. I'd imagine it's much more laid back and casual. Is that true?

It's not like any of us is going to set a dress code or call morning meetings. We do our own thing, attend to our own customers and cars, and try not to step on each other. We fund our purchases separately and treat it sort of like a hobby. We're also in an off the beaten path location to keep costs down, so we don't have to worry too much about fixed costs and overhead.


That 98 LS400 surely would've tempted me if I lived in the US. That generation of LS is becoming harder
to find, and is much more appealing to me than the bloated LS430.
Best of luck with your interest in the dealership ... have you left the world of books?

Books are still selling. Baffles me, but I'm satisfied. People love paper.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
07-15-13, 07:11 AM
I know I do. I refuse to buy a nook or kindle.

Stingroo
07-15-13, 10:13 AM
I know I do. I refuse to buy a nook or kindle.

Honestly. I got a little 7" tablet for Christmas last year. I never use the thing. I decided I was going to try and put some ebooks on it that a friend of mine gave me, and it was such a hassle that I was like "To heck with this" and just wrote them all down.

Library trip today, methinks.

RetiredSFC 97
07-15-13, 01:27 PM
It is amazing that a design this old can still hold it's own.

I constantly read corvette owners of all generations, (yes I own a corvette too) stating their particular vette has a timeless design. But none of the others do LOL. But the design on the 4th gen Seville and El Dorado can still hold up to any car on the road in my opinion. I fell in love with them the first time I saw one and even though mine is my DD, I still sometimes find myself just staring at it.

It really is a gorgeous car.

Jesda
07-15-13, 04:45 PM
I mostly read non-fiction which I prefer on paper so I can mark pages. I know you can bookmark and highlight with Kindle, but it's just not the same. If I was more into fiction I would prefer an e-reader since those tend to be linear. I read a lot about business and technology and find myself flipping around from section to section.

----

I also agree that the 92+ Seville and Eldorado are standouts, not just for their interiors and powertrains (N* issues aside) but for their sharp exterior designs that defied the bubbly look of the 90s. That adherence to Cadillac traditions in the face of a somewhat wild, swoopy design era (Chrysler LH, Ford Probe, Isuzu Vehicross, etc) has caused them to stand out as elegant examples of sporty, European-influenced, tasteful design. They were, after all, influenced heavily by the look of the Allante. While the Allante itself was a big money pit for GM, Cadillac got its money's worth from Pininfarina's design, gracefully carrying the lean, angular look through the mid 2000s.

----

The 1999 LS400 we just got is white with beautiful tan leather and a Nakamichi system. It has high miles but it's a one-owner car with a distinct look that, if the right enthusiast or Lexus aficionado is found, will likely sell for close to what is being asked. Like Ted touched on, the desirability of that body style is helped by how fat and bulky the LS430 became.

orconn
07-15-13, 05:06 PM
It took me awhile to get used to using my Kindle. It took me awhile to see the advantages of E-books over the paper kind. E-book prices are only a slight advantage over paper books. This is especially the case if you buy your books off Ebay where the prices are much less, including, s/h than the cost on Amazon for an E-book. However, I was finally won over by two factors: first was the fact that I didn't have a bunch of paper books accumulating that had to find storage space or a new home (I hate to just toss books in the trash!); secondly and a factor that became even more important was the weight of the Kindle verses a large book (especially hard bound) when I was reading in bed. I usually do most of my reading (fiction and the "Economist" and "Atlantic Monthly") in bed, before going to sleep. The light weight of the Kindle is so much more comfortable and makes the the Kindle the better choice for me while reading in bed.

ted tcb
07-15-13, 06:36 PM
I haven't purchased a Kindle yet, but I will for my winter vacation.
I happen to enjoy spending the day on a beach, reading good books ... nothing worse than having multiple books weighing down my luggage at the airport.
That's the biggest advantage of a Kindle for me.

Hoosier Daddy
07-15-13, 08:23 PM
I mostly read non-fiction which I prefer on paper so I can mark pages. I know you can bookmark and highlight with Kindle, but it's just not the same. If I was more into fiction I would prefer an e-reader since those tend to be linear. I read a lot about business and technology and find myself flipping around from section to section.But does the ability to search make it less one sided between paper and e-books?

Jesda
07-16-13, 02:19 AM
The problem is if a book is on a particular subject, you might get the same terms spread through every chapter, then electronic searching can get tedious.

I think it works well for textbooks though where students can narrow their searches to specific chapters that relate to the assignments they're working on.

cadi509
07-17-13, 01:32 AM
I think anyone who keeps a 10+ year old car in supreme condition deserves the title of classic but I suppose that's more in the person than the car....

CadillacLuke24
07-17-13, 02:52 AM
I think anyone who keeps a 10+ year old car in supreme condition deserves the title of classic but I suppose that's more in the person than the car....

Why thank you :D

Jesda
07-18-13, 02:51 AM
Almost home. So far so good! Even the volume and tuning knobs have retained their textured factory finish! Can't get over how mint this car is.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
07-18-13, 10:51 AM
That Seville would look great with a "Perot '92" bumper sticker!

CadillacLuke24
07-18-13, 01:44 PM
Almost home. So far so good! Even the volume and tuning knobs have retained their textured factory finish! Can't get over how mint this car is.

Yeah. You need to keep it. So very very badly. How does it ride after all these years?

orconn
07-18-13, 02:31 PM
Back in 2003 when we were looking for a 4th generation Seville for my wife, I drove a really nice mint 1992 Seville STS. It was a nice car, but truthfully the improvements in rear suspension and the Northstar drive train made a big improvement in the way these Sevilles drove. And later improvements to the suspension to the steering and suspension as in 1995 STS were an improvement over the '93 STS that my wife had gotten. Of all the fourth and fifth generation Sevilles I have driven I still prefer the 1995 over the others. The 1995's retain all the purity of the interior and exterior styling of the '92 Seville STS, but with very definite refinement of the mechanical attributes.

ted tcb
07-18-13, 05:48 PM
Agreed, orconn.

Biggest advantage I found with my 95 STS is that it drove like a scalded cat. Definitely the fastest of the 4 Northstar powered STS' I have owned. The interior was downscale compared to the 98 and newer cars, and the climate controls were strangely buried behind the steering wheel.
Still, I liked having real glass headlights, a trunk pulldown motor, a proper crest on the trunk, and loved those huge chrome cookie cutter wheels.

This is the only pic I have left of my 95 STS ... I've never seen another with black leather interior.

http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n243/tedtcb/REDSTS.jpg (http://s114.photobucket.com/user/tedtcb/media/REDSTS.jpg.html)

truckinman
07-18-13, 07:19 PM
I remember when my folks ALMOST bought a brand new 93 STS in white pearl. I remember going on the test drive with them and couldn't get over how amazing that car was. They were going to trade their 92 Miata for it. Sadly they ended up passing. But, wow was it nice!

orconn
07-18-13, 08:15 PM
My wife's '93 was white pearl, and when the car was 14 years old we had it professionally detailed. The cars was in very nice shape, but we couldn't believe how beautifully its' paint returned to almost new appearance. People kept complementing her on her "new" car!

Jesda
07-19-13, 07:47 AM
Yeah. You need to keep it. So very very badly. How does it ride after all these years?

Superb. Body motions aren't as well-controlled as later Sevilles with CVRSS but that's one less thing to worry about. Steering is reasonably precise and decently weighted for a large car and while there's a bit of float, it never feels out of control. It feels secure around ramps and curves though that impression is enhanced by the better-bolstered seats compared to Gen 5.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
07-19-13, 08:52 AM
I drove a pearl white over tan '94 STS once, about 7 years ago. I did a WOT at 60 mph and was thrown back into my seat way harder than I expected. If memory serves, the Marauder wasn't as quick as this STS was, at least from a 60 mph WOT. I do remember this 1994 as having a very nice, crisp & muscular sounding exhaust. It was unusually aggressive for a Cadillac and I remember reading that Cadillac dialed that back in 1995 or 1996.

truckinman
07-19-13, 09:31 AM
I drove a pearl white over tan '94 STS once, about 7 years ago. I did a WOT at 60 mph and was thrown back into my seat way harder than I expected. If memory serves, the Marauder wasn't as quick as this STS was, at least from a 60 mph WOT. I do remember this 1994 as having a very nice, crisp & muscular sounding exhaust. It was unusually aggressive for a Cadillac and I remember reading that Cadillac dialed that back in 1995 or 1996.

Yea, I was only about 7-8 when my parents looked at the 93, and I still remember my mom asking my step dad to stomp on it to see how the power felt while we were on some back road. And I still remember the feel of that engine pulling, and as you said, just how good that exhaust sounded.

orconn
07-19-13, 01:49 PM
No doubt about the1993 Seville STS felt and sounded "sportier" than my 1995. But inspite of the '93's theatrics the 1995 was quicker and had better steering feel .... and felt more refined.

CadillacLuke24
07-20-13, 01:54 AM
I drove a pearl white over tan '94 STS once, about 7 years ago. I did a WOT at 60 mph and was thrown back into my seat way harder than I expected. If memory serves, the Marauder wasn't as quick as this STS was, at least from a 60 mph WOT. I do remember this 1994 as having a very nice, crisp & muscular sounding exhaust. It was unusually aggressive for a Cadillac and I remember reading that Cadillac dialed that back in 1995 or 1996.

That's what I like about my 96 compared to the old man's old 99 Concours. She's a little growlier under load :D

orconn
08-03-14, 08:55 PM
Any thoughts on these old girls a year later?

I agree with most of what has been said about the 4th series Seville STS's, but I don't agree that that interiordesign and materials seem better on the 5th series cars. Having both series Sevilles and comparing them side by side, I definitely feel that the 5th series' interior looks and feels cheaper and certainly less well put together than the 4th series cars. The seats in the 5th series cars are just not nearly as supportive and comfortable as the fourth series cars. I quess the dash and HVAC control set up on the 4th series cars doesn't work for everyone, but for me it is the best control set up I have ever had in a car.