: Jeff help please



97Catera
02-19-05, 04:39 PM
sorry to keep bothering you but it seams your the one with most of the answers.The car is running worse now before it was only stubling at idle but when i gave it gas it was fine,now the engine light is back on and it barley drives.When i give it gas it hesitates alot and bucks like it was at idle but now its while driving also.Any ideas before i burn the car lol.

Vesicant
02-19-05, 05:58 PM
What all have you replaced? ignition wise?


Get this new code, then what id guess at next is possibly a dirty injector or bad fuel. Are you seeing any smoke ? Is it backfiring?

97Catera
02-19-05, 06:03 PM
i have only replaced ther plugs so far.no smoke and no backfiring.i checked the oil its clean and the coolant is clean besides it being green i gues the previous owner didnt know to use dex cool.

Vesicant
02-19-05, 06:04 PM
Well, you should direct your attention to then the injector on the misfiring cylinder and the coil pack's and wires.

97Catera
02-19-05, 06:36 PM
does each cylinder have its own coil or do they all share the same.also how do i tell if the injector is not working right.My boss is coming by in the morning to read the code he has a better scan tool than the autozone one.

Vesicant
02-19-05, 07:11 PM
Your model has 3 coil packs with 2 being driven off each one.

http://autorepair.about.com/library/firing_orders/bl-fo-2099.htm

As for the injectors, you could measure for voltage off it. I cant give voltages atm since i dont have the resource that tells me what they are.

97Catera
02-19-05, 07:19 PM
that link shows 2001 catera I have a 97 jeff does that make a differance.

Vesicant
02-19-05, 07:35 PM
No... and i meant to have 97 but did 01 on accident

http://autorepair.about.com/library/firing_orders/bl-fo-5133.htm

97Catera
02-19-05, 09:30 PM
will the code tell me if its a fuel injector problem or coil problem.sorry for all the questions i am just trying to get all the info together for tomorrow so when i see what the code is i can hopefully know what needs to be done to get it running again.

cadillacway
02-19-05, 09:47 PM
jeff is right about the coil. I just replaced mine three weeks ago. It took 4 hours to do. The main time consuming thing is to remove all of the drainage pieces near the back of the engine in order to get to the coil.

Sounds like your problem is either spark or fuel. My problem is turning into another beast (see other thread). Don't forget about the dreaded vacuum leak too. Inspect all vacuum hoses and clamps. If you hear that whistle, could be a belt but you would know the difference.

It's easy to check for spark - just pull out your wire and carefully insert a metal piece right into the area with the other end grounded to your block (please insulate your hand). Have someone crank the starter and voila - if there's spark you'll see it dance along the block.BUT BE CAREFUL - DO NOT ATTEMPT IF YOU ARE WORRIED about electrocuting yourself! This is old school advice but it worked for me.

97Catera
02-19-05, 10:21 PM
also is it bad that the car has green coolant instead of dexcool

cadillacway
02-20-05, 02:52 AM
Dex-cool is the only recommended coolant. I'd stay away from the others.

97Catera
02-20-05, 03:21 PM
ok jeff 3 codes here they are
p0300 random misfire
p0305 cylinder 5 misfire
p0340 camshaft position sensor circuit
the scanner said car is ok to run
and when he did the check on the cylinder's you could see 5 is the only one misfiring but when you put a load on the car it doesnt misfire anymore as soon as you let off the gas it starts again.any ideas would be helpful before i go buying wires,coil,sensors that i dont need.thanks Jeff

Vesicant
02-20-05, 04:29 PM
I cant really say anymore... test the spark comming from the plug using what cadillac suggested. If there is spark, then its got to be fuel related. Maybe its having trouble keeping a spark time because of the camshaft position circuit?

97Catera
02-20-05, 07:17 PM
jeff i think i found my answer that you for all your time and help here it is for anyone else have misfire problems this might help them
MISFIRES

COP problems can include many of the same ailments as other ignition systems such as misfiring, hard starting or a no start. Spark plugs can still be fouled by oil or fuel deposits as well as preignition and detonation. So COP ignition systems are not immune to trouble.

If the crankshaft position sensor fails, the loss of the basic timing signal will prevent the system from generating a spark and the engine will not start or run. A failed driver circuit within the PCM can kill an individual coil and prevent that cylinder from firing. But with COP, an individual coil failure will only cause misfiring in one cylinder.

Itís important to remember that ignition misfire can also be caused by other factors such as worn or fouled spark plugs, loose or damaged coil connectors or terminals, dirty fuel injectors, low fuel pressure, intake vacuum leaks, loss of compression in a cylinder, even a tankful of "bad" gas contaminated with water. These other possibilities should all be ruled out before a COP unit is replaced.

The most common trouble codes youíll encounter with COP systems on OBD II equipped vehicles are P0300 series codes such as P0301, P0302, etc. that indicate a misfire in a particular cylinder. The important point to remember here is that a general misfire code (P0300) is probably not ignition related but is due to a vacuum leak or fuel delivery problem.

A code that indicates a misfire in a single cylinder (such as P0304), on the other hand, will usually be due to a fouled spark plug, weak coil, dirty or dead fuel injector, or loss of compression (burned vale or leaky head gasket).

If a misfire is due to a bad coil, you should find a coil code that corresponds to the same cylinder (P0351 to P0358).

If a misfire is fuel related, you should also find a code that indicates an open or shorted injector in that cylinder (P0201 to P0208).

A COP engine that cranks but fails to start, in many cases, will often have a problem in the crankshaft position sensor circuit (code P0320). Loss of the camshaft position sensor signal (code P0340) may prevent the PCM from properly synchronizing the fuel injectors, but may still allow the engine to start and run in a limp-in mode.

97Catera
02-20-05, 07:18 PM
hopefully a new camshaft sensor helps me out.

Vesicant
02-20-05, 09:26 PM
Although the 97-98's do not have COP That situation would still work with the seperate coil packs. And that may be the root of your problem.

Hope something good turns out of this.


Jeff.

97Catera
02-20-05, 10:28 PM
jeff here is the entire page i got that from in case you want to bookmark it for future use http://hostingprod.com/@aa1car.com/library/copign.htm

Vesicant
02-20-05, 11:11 PM
:thumbsup:

take note of this comment as well for future referance on troubleshooting your problem:

"A code that indicates a misfire in a single cylinder (such as P0304), on the other hand, will usually be due to a fouled spark plug, weak coil, dirty or dead fuel injector, or loss of compression (burned valve or leaky head gasket)."

97Catera
02-21-05, 02:42 AM
it just stumps me because under load the cylinder isn't misfiring,i would think if the coil was bad or bad wire it wouldn't matter load or no load.I guess i will have to order the cam sensor and see what happens i'll keep my fingers crossed.

97Catera
02-23-05, 08:44 PM
well cam sensor came in today i just picked it up and its too dark to change now i will do it when i get home from work in the morning.I will keep the forum updated in case anyone else has a problem like this.

97Catera
02-24-05, 11:13 AM
well replaced the camshaft sensor car runs better but still gave the p0305 misfire cylinder 5 so i ordered a set of magnacore 8mm wires made for the catera for 170$ shipped 2nd day.beats the 219$ autozone wants for stock wires.i could have gotten the bosch wires for 150$ shipped 2nd day but i figured for the extra 20$ might as well step it up a little

97Catera
03-03-05, 06:17 PM
well put the wires in car runs great again.