: Black Box



fleetwood350
02-14-05, 06:51 PM
Do any Cadillacs have the "black Box" installed in them? How about a '93 FWB? If so, where is it, can it be unplugged without messing anything else up. My airbags have already been disabled.

Ralph
02-14-05, 08:36 PM
'93 was too long ago to have them, but I think around 2001-'03 they put them in. We had controversial threads on this topic as viewed from an "invasion of privacy issue" and in some cases people approved of them. Everyone has to decide for themselves if they approve, etc. In one case, it was used by a court to the owner of the cars disadvantage to prove he was speeding, and he went to jail, etc. If you enter "black box" under the "Search" option there should be a few good threads that can answer your questions from a couple of years ago.

DaveSmed
02-14-05, 10:04 PM
My airbags have already been disabled.

If you don't mind me asking, intentional or not? (malfunction) I would make it a point to get that repaired. Anyway the "black box" that most of the fuss is about records the last 5 seconds before airbags deploy. Not a huge deal. MPH, brake status, RPM and seatbelt status are the parameters monotored from what I remember. I'm sure Logan will chime in soon, he's a supporting vendor of the site, who's specialty is in dealing with these crash data recorders. He is a very knowledgeable individual regarding these systems.

fleetwood350
02-15-05, 08:39 AM
I found a site last night that was very good concerning the "black Box". It lists all vehicles equipped with them and where it is located. Cadillacs from 1994 up have them. I just don't like the idea of being spied on in my own car or anywhere else for that matter. Did you know that if you have Onstar, that conversations within your vehicle can be heard and taped without your knowledge? This was on a website I visited last night. Don't know if it is true or not, but I suppose it could be done.

As for the airbags, DaveSmed, I intentionally disabled them. It is my wife's car and she drives with her knees rubbing the inside of the firewall. She can't reach the pedals unless she sits close to the wheel, and she doesn't like airbags. I feel she is pretty well protected in this FWB as it is a massive ride. If you get nailed by an 18 wheeler or other big truck, airbags aren't going to do much good anyhow. With this car, I am much more concerned with a side impact than a front one.

turbojimmy
02-15-05, 09:23 AM
Did you know that if you have Onstar, that conversations within your vehicle can be heard and taped without your knowledge? This was on a website I visited last night. Don't know if it is true or not, but I suppose it could be done.

I don't know if it's true or not, but it's theoretically possible. If they can reach down and unlock doors and get trouble codes, then why not? They can probably collect "black-box" type data real-time, too. How long until they can disable your vehicle remotely if someone thinks you're not behaving?

When I rebuilt my car I didn't replace the Onstar system. I find it creepy. I removed the vehicle interface and the GPS unit. No codes. I'm sure the day will come when removing it will disable the car or at least throw up a bunch of trouble codes (actually my car is an '01, so that day has probably come already).

Jim

fleetwood350
02-15-05, 01:25 PM
I don't care for all this "creepy stuff" on my car. I carry a spare key in my wallet, so I don't worry about being locked out. This stuff is great for soccer moms, but I don't care for it. There is even talk about then next generation OBD systems putting your car in limp mode if it passes a roadside sensor and one of your pollution controls is on the fritz. What innovative ways Big Brother is coming up with to wring more $$$ out of car owners. Things are getting to the point of being absurd in this country. I think I'll keep my old '81 Ford.

Ralph
02-15-05, 01:33 PM
I found a site last night that was very good concerning the "black Box". It lists all vehicles equipped with them and where it is located. Cadillacs from 1994 up have them.

I would like to know that link because black boxes seemed to only make big headlines a couple of years ago.

fleetwood350
02-15-05, 05:44 PM
Here is a link to the black box site. It has a lot of good info and will really make you aware of how our privacy is fading away and nobody seems to care.



http://www.crashdatainfo.com/_wsn/page3.html

DaveSmed
02-16-05, 11:20 PM
Hey no mention of 68 Caddies on that site! :p Good call on disabling the bag. Thats one exception to the rule, generally the philosophy I have is it sure beats stopping your face with the steering wheel.

SoundAdvantage
02-16-05, 11:46 PM
I found a site last night that was very good concerning the "black Box". It lists all vehicles equipped with them and where it is located. Cadillacs from 1994 up have them. I just don't like the idea of being spied on in my own car or anywhere else for that matter. Did you know that if you have Onstar, that conversations within your vehicle can be heard and taped without your knowledge? This was on a website I visited last night. Don't know if it is true or not, but I suppose it could be done.

As for the airbags, DaveSmed, I intentionally disabled them. It is my wife's car and she drives with her knees rubbing the inside of the firewall. She can't reach the pedals unless she sits close to the wheel, and she doesn't like airbags. I feel she is pretty well protected in this FWB as it is a massive ride. If you get nailed by an 18 wheeler or other big truck, airbags aren't going to do much good anyhow. With this car, I am much more concerned with a side impact than a front one.

I don't think I would want a BLACK BOX in any of my cars either. Has anyone noticed all the cameras up on top the light posts at various intersections? Most all the new road construction locations have them too. I was told that insurance companies have somthing to do with them. Not sure.
As far as the air bags go, they are probably a good idea in small cars, but today on the local news a Ford Taurus wagon crossed the center line of a two lane hwy and hit a Lincoln Town car head on, Both vehicles air bags deployed but both drivers died shortly after the wreck at the scene of the accident. If both cars were traveling at 50mph then that was a 100mph impact so airbag or not it would be difficult to survive that great of impact.

fleetwood350
02-17-05, 02:55 PM
Our local TV news station has several cameras around town at busy intersections. Every night they show how traffic is flowing. There is probably some hidden reasons for the cameras, as who cares to see a traffic jam at home on TV. They don't do one bit of good while you are in your car.

DavesMed, maybe you can find a way to rig up some bags in your '68.

ElDawgg 2G
02-18-05, 09:17 PM
Hello...
I enjoyed the free 1-year OnStar subscription on my 2000 ETC, but I didn't renew. It provides a nice service (human interface+navigation+diagnostics) (although $$$!).
Also, I was surprised to discover the "black box."
It gets interesting when one considers the posibilities of these 2 systems.

For example:
1) I know people who have rented a car:
-didn't specify that the car would leave the state, and
-drove the vehicle over the legal, posted speed limit;
They were unaware that the Rental Agency monitors vehicles through GPS (but it IS in the contract)
and added surcharges for the above mentioned violations.

2) The newer version of OnStar will transmit crash related data:
This can help the paramedics decide what (special?) equipment they'll need to assist/extract passengers...or the police to arrest you.

3) Questions arise as to who actually owns the crash data:
-The owner of the car does, for sure. I don't think it's legal to remove the black box after a crash in order to keep the data...or destroy it(?)
-Insurance company owns the information if they pay a claim.

I've recently replaced my ETC (Totaled...aww, man!) with an STS (no OnStar!) and am still working with lawyers and insurance on lots of other issues...more to come!

...just wanted to share some ideas...dunno if I'm 100% sold on any of it yet!
Big Brother is always watching...get used to it!

evilrussian
02-18-05, 09:29 PM
The movie Demolition Man comes to mind... Imagine someone cuts you off, you get mad, yell a cuss word and the ondoard printer spits out a citation for you! :helpless:

davesdeville
02-19-05, 02:15 AM
Hmm I didn't realise my ETC has one of those air bag crash info things... I'll be sure to leave it in because in some cases it could save you from being screwed but I plan to know where it is and be able to deal with it should an issue arise.

fleetwood350
02-19-05, 03:08 PM
I know Big Brother is watching, but I will never "get used" to it. There are a lot of things that I don't like but have no control over, but the things I do, I will exercise it. If and when the time comes that I own a car equipped with the box, it will be removed. I don't know what systems might be disabled, but there is always a way around them. If you would remove a box after a crash, I don't know what kind of legal problems it might cause, but the way I see it is if you own the data, and that data could incriminate you in a court of law, federal law protects you against self-incrimination. Therefore, you could remove the data legally. But, I am sure it wouldn't be that easy. If I screwed up bigtime, I would rip it out in an instant if I were able. Kinda like a story I read one time about a drinking driver that had an accident and knew he was in trouble. He had some booze with him and by the time the cops got there he was about passed out. There was no way they could tell what his alcohol level was at the time of the wreck. Don't know how it turned out...........