: Twin Turbo Kit for V1



Jsmitty02z28
06-28-13, 04:22 PM
I'm contemplating doing a twin turbo build for my 04 V and was joking around with my boss about it and he said if there was enough interest he would consider building and selling them. Right now I'm just trying to spark up interest. The guy that is willing to do it has built Supras, twin turbo Vettes and Camaros as well as Twin Turbo TBSS. He's great at what he does and is looking to mass produce something. We're located in the Garland, Plano, Sachse area in Texas. Lets get the discussion flowing! I'm open to any ideas.

Thanks a head of time guys.


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rand49er
06-28-13, 04:42 PM
You might get considerable interest here.

But, you know what the first question is going to be? "How much?"

HAMSTAR
06-28-13, 05:07 PM
yes, there would be interest, but the price has to be significantly lower than a custom fab TT setup, which run from 6500 to 10K, depending on installer. hopefully, volume will allow your builder to offer a competitive price.

253ctsv
06-28-13, 06:10 PM
This is an idea that I had and was thinking of in 5yrs or so. That being said I'm not one to pass up a good deal!

Ny's Caddy
06-28-13, 06:11 PM
Im in for the right price:)

Jsmitty02z28
06-28-13, 06:49 PM
Would y'all rather a rear mount setup or in the engine bay. I here there is a significant amount of lag in a rear mount set up. The twin turbo TBSS had them mounted either side of trans so about in the middle of the car. I'm not sure if it is an option but if there is room he can make it work. What's y'all's opinion.


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Jsmitty02z28
06-28-13, 06:57 PM
Here's the numbers so far. 700 rwhp capable kit- 7500-8500, up to 1300 rwhp for around 12-15k.


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DMM
06-28-13, 07:12 PM
I was contemplating the same thing installing them in place of the Cat converters using the OE manifolds. I wanted to use the Comp oil-less turbos so I would not have to mess with oil lines and return pumps while being able to mount them in any position. The A-Holes gave me the run around and I abandoned the effort and went with an E-Force instead. Twin GT-35's would be bad ass on a LS2/6. The biggest problem is the air cleaners, I thought having the oil-less turbos that can be mounted in any position would be a good way to duct and air filter but I never got there.

Here's one that was custom made and the guy got bored with...going bigger:
http://ls1tech.com/forums/cadillac-cts-v-classifieds/1652648-04-07-cts-v-twin-turbo-kit-900-whp-capable.html

What fuel upgrades are you considering to go with your kit?

253ctsv
06-28-13, 07:55 PM
Here's the numbers so far. 700 rwhp capable kit- 7500-8500, up to 1300 rwhp for around 12-15k.

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Giggity giggity giggity giggity. I'm in. Most likely the lesser one. Would probably take me a good 6 months to save the cash tho

Jsmitty02z28
06-28-13, 08:39 PM
I spoke to him about fuel and size this was his response. "Fuel upgrades are easy, I just have to look at the tank. GT35s are fine, only on 427s. That's a 1100 rwhp capable set of twins. We would do gt30s on the smaller kits. And the entry level kit would have internally gated turbos for cost reasons. Twin MVR gates on the bigger kits. He said its really up to what you want power wise and his you plan on driving the car.

Guys I appreciate the feedback I'm starting to get real excited.
Thsnks


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BigDaddy-V
06-28-13, 09:39 PM
I am in Wylie right next to you. What shop are you guys in? There is no way I can get the wife to go for a TT setup but would love to see what you guys have going on!

BDV

DavidBoren
06-28-13, 09:42 PM
Mounting them where the cats with stock manifolds would be nice, but a lot of people upgrade to Kooks (or headers in general) as one of their first upgrades... and definitely would want to with twin turbos.

I would mount them in place of the factory resonator. That puts them mid-car, like the turbo TBSS, you mentioned. I would still use oil-less, internal wastegate turbos to reduce the overall amount of extra crap that would have to be included in the kit to keep the cost down.

Just my two cents, I dont even have a Vee-car...

But my CTS-Jr has the same exhaust... :cool:

Jsmitty02z28
06-28-13, 09:56 PM
Davidboren your right that is a first mod we really werent thinking about. The resonator mid car... I don't think leaves enough space unfortunately.


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Jsmitty02z28
06-28-13, 10:00 PM
I am in Wylie right next to you. What shop are you guys in? There is no way I can get the wife to go for a TT setup but would love to see what you guys have going on!

BDV

We're actually in Sachse. We're using a friends shop at the moment which is working out perfect. We mainly do fab work for mass producing currently working on new s2k cat backs. But we're really in the business of LS cars. With 25+ years in road racing and custom fab work on camaros corvettes and some mustangs back in the late 90's.


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Jsmitty02z28
06-28-13, 10:11 PM
I just talked to him I didn't want to throw out any names until he was ok with it. The guy I work for is Louis Gigliotti formerly from LG Motorsports. He does great work and as just as excited about this as I am.


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BigDaddy-V
06-28-13, 10:20 PM
I would love to see what you are doing. I have some ideas for some exhaust mods and other things but I am not a fabricator much. Plus don't have the tools in my garage for stuff like that. I work at Firewheel and drive down 78 like everyday. Let me know where you are and I can stop by.

BDV

----------

I just saw that LG motorsports is putting in a place over on 75 close to my parents. I love my car and want to make it a toy for years to come but she is a DD for now and needs to stay civil!

BDV

Jsmitty02z28
06-28-13, 10:37 PM
Yeah we moved from Wylie last year to a temp shop in plano while the new shop is being built. We're working with a close friend in his shop as soon as I get the go ahead ill pm you the address


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BigDaddy-V
06-28-13, 10:51 PM
Cool sounds good! Always like knowing who the car guys are around me! It is even better with the ones who know about my car!

BDV

Jsmitty02z28
06-28-13, 11:47 PM
Louis said if we can get 3-4 cars really interested that we can start planning for this build. I would prefer a little more Interest to help everybody out on cost.

Thanks, Jason


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Manofmetal01
06-28-13, 11:53 PM
Very much interested, need a couple months to squirrel away the funds, but definetely in!

Jsmitty02z28
06-29-13, 12:06 AM
Very much interested, need a couple months to squirrel away the funds, but definetely in!

A build like this will take a little bit of time.

Thanks for the interest


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VincentT
06-29-13, 12:53 AM
1,300 hp? What all are you including? I'm assuming that if it's all-inclusive it will include a turbos, piping, intercooler, WGs, BOV, fuel pump(s), lines, rails, injectors, valvesprings, head studs, gaskets, oil pump/chain, pistons, rods, crank, clutch, transmission, driveshaft, diff, half-shafts, boost controller, and a reprogrammed ECU?

Call me skeptical, but it takes, what, 35 psi to get 1,300hp out of a 5.7? (Unless it's 35 degrees out)

253ctsv
06-29-13, 12:58 AM
1,300 hp? What all are you including? I'm assuming that if it's all-inclusive it will include a turbos, piping, intercooler, WGs, BOV, fuel pump(s), lines, rails, injectors, valvesprings, head studs, gaskets, oil pump/chain, pistons, rods, crank, clutch, transmission, driveshaft, diff, half-shafts, boost controller, and a reprogrammed ECU?

Call me skeptical, but it takes, what, 35 psi to get 1,300hp out of a 5.7? (Unless it's 35 degrees out)

Call me crazy but I'd say anything past the crank is on you.

Jsmitty02z28
06-29-13, 02:22 AM
The kit is supplied to the end user. If they want the whole setup- turn key, that's a option, but it's not cheap. Usually, they source everything else, we just build the kit to be capable of that power.

On a 427, with billet 62s, it takes 26 psi to make 1300 rwhp. Definitely a serious combo.


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Jsmitty02z28
06-29-13, 02:33 AM
The base kits, up to 800 rwhp, will come with or with out a fuel system upgrade and injectors. The engine can handle 650-700 all day with proper fuel and a good tune.


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BigDaddy-V
06-29-13, 10:22 AM
This might be a silly question but what about a single turbo setup? I know the lag will be more pronounced but is it possible for that to happen? Just wondering.

BDV

Jsmitty02z28
06-29-13, 11:20 AM
Right now we're focused on a twin kit because there aren't as many on the market. If all goes well a single big turbo kit wouldn't be a bad idea in the future.


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ONEBADCADDIE
06-29-13, 12:30 PM
Interested as long as price is right instead of doing a custom setup

Jsmitty02z28
06-29-13, 01:43 PM
The more people we get lined up the easier it will be to cut costs.

What price range were y'all hoping for? Be realistic this is a bolt up twin turbo kit capable to whatever power level you have in mind.


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HAMSTAR
06-29-13, 02:21 PM
I would be looking to make V2-level power, like 600WHP so that I can retain the stock fuel system, etc., and could keep my stock 4th gen rear end. Anyway, any more than that and I don't understand how street tires could hook. The turbos could give you that and retain relatively reasonable fuel efficiency.

As for price, if it's really a bolt-on, then you could probably stay around Maggie price-range. However, as you are a small shop without a track record, you would have to do better than that, I think.

How are you guys thinking you could make this a true bolt-on kit?

BigDaddy-V
06-29-13, 03:00 PM
I am with HAMSTAR on this one! Like I said mine is a DD and will be for quite sometime but I do want more power! I still haven't decided if I am going to stay NA or go FI of some kind. As cool as it would be to have stupid crazy power I love the sleeper effect of our cars and I need it for everyday use. Somewhere around V2 power is more than enough to hold my own with your average car on the road and any more than that and they can tell it is to much to mess with.

That being said, I am still very interested in what can be done and how it all works out. Looking forward to all the info and getting to see the shop.

BDV

Jsmitty02z28
06-29-13, 03:20 PM
Are track record is plenty impressive. Louis built every race car that ever came out of LG Motorsports, the last one in less than 2 months. He has ins with every big name company in the U.S. one being Forced Inductions. The size of our shop has nothing to do with what we can do.

Our main goal is to fab a bolt up Twin kit that will match your power goals. If a stock fuel system is what you want we can work with that. Ultimately we are getting feedback to come up with the best possible outcome for thus build. These kits are going to be capable of certain power whether you want to turn it down or not is your choice.

Again thanks for the feedback. Me and Louis appreciate it.

Jason


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Jsmitty02z28
06-29-13, 03:31 PM
I would be looking to make V2-level power, like 600WHP so that I can retain the stock fuel system, etc., and could keep my stock 4th gen rear end. Anyway, any more than that and I don't understand how street tires could hook. The turbos could give you that and retain relatively reasonable fuel efficiency.

As for price, if it's really a bolt-on, then you could probably stay around Maggie price-range. However, as you are a small shop without a track record, you would have to do better than that, I think.

How are you guys thinking you could make this a true bolt-on kit?

By bolt on I mean retain stock manifolds turbos with internal gates at the stock cat location it will also use stock exhaust from the turbos back. This will be a kit we send out the shop or installer will be responsible for fuel unless its something yall want us to include. By doing that it will be more expensive.


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HAMSTAR
06-29-13, 03:32 PM
Are track record is plenty impressive. Louis built every race car that ever came out of LG Motorsports, the last one in less than 2 months. He has ins with every big name company in the U.S. one being Forced Inductions. The size of our shop has nothing to do with what we can do.

Our main goal is to fab a bolt up Twin kit that will match your power goals. If a stock fuel system is what you want we can work with that. Ultimately we are getting feedback to come up with the best possible outcome for thus build. These kits are going to be capable of certain power whether you want to turn it down or not is your choice.

Again thanks for the feedback. Me and Louis appreciate it.

Jason


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Sorry, I was writing to quickly to express myself politely. I am sure you guys have lots of experience and have built many badass cars. I don't know who Louis is, but that's probably because I'm a medical research scientist and don't know that world. What I meant to say is that you may not have the same brand recognition as Magnussen or Edelbrock or whatever. If you want to compete with them, you will have to compete on price if you want to move a lot of units, until reliability is proven by the kind of average joe who buys these cars. We are not all steeped in the race world.

Jsmitty02z28
06-29-13, 03:56 PM
LG Motorsports is the number one distributor for corvette parts in the world. The company was started by Louis' dad Lou Gigliotti There biggest success is the LG Pro Longtube Header that Louis designed and fabricated in the early 2000's. I understand those companies are "bigger names" but in the race world or fab and tuning anything with an LS motor Louis while at LG was the guy to go with. He's veered away from the race aspect of things and just wants to fabricate new products which is why we are getting interest in this new product.

Thanks for the consideration.

Jason




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BigDaddy-V
06-29-13, 04:07 PM
I really like the thought of the placement of those turbos where the cats are. I have thought about relocating my cats further downstream anyway so that would be cool to take up that space with! Really looking forward to more info!

BDV

Jsmitty02z28
06-29-13, 05:26 PM
For the people interested, I will make a list. Ill get with Louis and get a timeline of things so people can save or what not.

Thanks again everybody

Jason


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Manofmetal01
06-29-13, 07:25 PM
You talk about stock manifolds and stock exhaust...how about those of us with aftermarket such as kooks long tubes...corsa is close to stock so the exhaust shouldnt be an issue

253ctsv
06-29-13, 07:25 PM
So.... 700whp "capable". 6-8k for the kit. Then to get near that 700whp how much more would I have to spend on supporting mods? Excluding clutch, tranny rear end..... Or is that all included? Then I have to pay someone to set it all up... Unless all I need is an afternoon, wrench and 3 sockets. I could do 6-8k and a week of my car in the shop if I can then take my car to the tuner n it puts down 700ish whp. But if I've got to spend another 2-5k on other upgrades to get there I'm a little less interested.

Jsmitty02z28
06-29-13, 10:05 PM
You talk about stock manifolds and stock exhaust...how about those of us with aftermarket such as kooks long tubes...corsa is close to stock so the exhaust shouldnt be an issue

We have put some thought into this. Haven't come up with a solution quiet yet but I will keep y'all posted on this issue.

Jason


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Jsmitty02z28
06-29-13, 10:20 PM
So.... 700whp "capable". 6-8k for the kit. Then to get near that 700whp how much more would I have to spend on supporting mods? Excluding clutch, tranny rear end..... Or is that all included? Then I have to pay someone to set it all up... Unless all I need is an afternoon, wrench and 3 sockets. I could do 6-8k and a week of my car in the shop if I can then take my car to the tuner n it puts down 700ish whp. But if I've got to spend another 2-5k on other upgrades to get there I'm a little less interested.

With any turbo kits, supercharger or and FI set up there are always going to be other upgrades. We would recommend fuel system upgrade with any FI upgrade just like adding nitrous to your car. So the added cost for that is irrelevant because sooner or later it needs to be done. I did talk to Louis, we're not against a full build custom piping, fuel system, oil lines, air to air or air to water intercoolers but that's pushing the cost way up. Like with an APS kit it only includes the turbo kit not any other performance upgrades. We're not against adding to the kit per customer but were trying to keep cost down for the customer. Again this is a kit that is bolt on similar to the APS KIT. We're going to offer different stages of the kit. Our goal is to sale a kit that a customer buys and can enjoy daily driven or make a full blown track car out of it.

Thanks for y'all's time and feedback.

Jason


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VincentT
06-30-13, 09:27 AM
With any turbo kits, supercharger or and FI set up there are always going to be other upgrades. We would recommend fuel system upgrade with any FI upgrade just like adding nitrous to your car. So the added cost for that is irrelevant because sooner or later it needs to be done. I did talk to Louis, we're not against a full build custom piping, fuel system, oil lines, air to air or air to water intercoolers but that's pushing the cost way up. Like with an APS kit it only includes the turbo kit not any other performance upgrades. We're not against adding to the kit per customer but were trying to keep cost down for the customer. Again this is a kit that is bolt on similar to the APS KIT. We're going to offer different stages of the kit. Our goal is to sale a kit that a customer buys and can enjoy daily driven or make a full blown track car out of it.

Thanks for y'all's time and feedback.

Jason



Now, for me, the true value of a "bolt in" system would be the piping, fuel lines, oil lines and such; and not the turbos, WGs, BOVs, etc. For instance, if you guys knew all of the measurements and angles for piping for fitting a TT system into our cars using GT30's, and you could easily reproduce them, I would be much more interested in just buying the piping if it would fit. I would rather hunt down a set of my own turbos, WGs and everything if the kit cut down on the fab work (not because I don't enjoy fab work; I just don't have the means). You could then tell the customer, "Put 'these' turbos on the flanges, put "X" WGs here on this pre-fabbed fitting, route your charge pipe here..." That's just my take on it though: for me, once the funds are there, the hard part won't be hunting down the hardware. The hard part will be fabbing it up.

UnsafeAtAnySpd
06-30-13, 11:47 AM
Yeah bring that headers are a very common mod, you may want to look into a setup that peoplecan use them with.

HAMSTAR
06-30-13, 11:50 AM
Well said, VincenT

Jsmitty02z28
06-30-13, 07:43 PM
That is a good idea and would cut cost down significantly. However we are trying to supply a whole kit. If you want different turbos you can send us the turbos with the deposit when that time comes and we can match the flanges to the turbos. But the base kit would be made for twin GT30.


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HAMSTAR
06-30-13, 08:02 PM
That is a good idea and would cut cost down significantly. However we are trying to supply a whole kit. If you want different turbos you can send us the turbos with the deposit when that time comes and we can match the flanges to the turbos. But the base kit would be made for twin GT30.


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I believe what he is saying is that sourcing the turbos is the easy part. It would naturally make sense to buy them from you guys, but the point he was making was that fabbing up the piping, intercooler locator brackets, etc. -- if you guys could do all that so it was truly bolt-in, that would be very well received.

Jsmitty02z28
06-30-13, 08:07 PM
Ill talk to Louis. If everybody agrees this us what they want then that's what we will do.

Jason


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darkman
06-30-13, 08:16 PM
I believe what he is saying is that sourcing the turbos is the easy part. It would naturally make sense to buy them from you guys, but the point he was making was that fabbing up the piping, intercooler locator brackets, etc. -- if you guys could do all that so it was truly bolt-in, that would be very well received.

No doubt that sourcing the turbos is the easy part. After all anyone with laptop and telephone can become a dealer and drop ship those. It also probably the most profitable part. If I were the seller, I would not want to provide the "kit" which involves the most R&D, the most work, and the lowest margin while others with no real investment in the market development "cherry picked" the most profitable component of the package.

VincentT
06-30-13, 09:24 PM
No doubt that sourcing the turbos is the easy part. After all anyone with laptop and telephone can become a dealer and drop ship those. It also probably the most profitable part. If I were the seller, I would not want to provide the "kit" which involves the most R&D, the most work, and the lowest margin while others with no real investment in the market development "cherry picked" the most profitable component of the package.

That depends upon how much the customer is willing to pay for pre-fabbed components. The most costly investment for such things, as you said, is time and effort, especially since the most difficult part is reproducibility. The raw materials for things like the piping are relatively inexpensive, especially when compared to turbos. As such, depending upon how much a person is willing to pay, such components could be profitable. If they have the facility and ability, once they create the first working kit (if measurements are properly documented), each subsequent kit will be easier (not necessarily easy, just not as hard) to make based off the plans. It is at that point that it will become profitable. However, the kink in all of this is that there must be a market in order for such a system to be profitable. Only around 10,000 V1's were made. One must consider how many owners out of those remaining would desire such a kit. Then one must consider how many can afford one. Then you have to think about how many just won't hear about it. The numbers of kits they could eventually sell could be quite low indeed. It's a legitimate risk to embark on such an endeavor, and if including turbos offsets the costs of time and effort, then they should. I wasn't really viewing the issue through profitability in my previous post. I should have. But my real point was that the true service they could offer would be the fabrication and routing of the piping and such.

darkman
06-30-13, 09:37 PM
That depends upon how much the customer is willing to pay for pre-fabbed components. The most costly investment for such things, as you said, is time and effort, especially since the most difficult part is reproducibility. The raw materials for things like the piping are relatively inexpensive, especially when compared to turbos. As such, depending upon how much a person is willing to pay, such components could be profitable. If they have the facility and ability, once they create the first working kit (if measurements are properly documented), each subsequent kit will be easier (not necessarily easy, just not as hard) to make based off the plans. It is at that point that it will become profitable. However, the kink in all of this is that there must be a market in order for such a system to be profitable. Only around 10,000 V1's were made. One must consider how many owners out of those remaining would desire such a kit. Then one must consider how many can afford one. Then you have to think about how many just won't hear about it. The numbers of kits they could eventually sell could be quite low indeed. It's a legitimate risk to embark on such an endeavor, and if including turbos offsets the costs of time and effort, then they should. I wasn't really viewing the issue through profitability in my previous post. I should have. But my real point was that the true service they could offer would be the fabrication and routing of the piping and such.

I agree.

Manofmetal01
06-30-13, 09:52 PM
Im single, work in the canadian oil patch 2/3 of the year. I can and will afford this kit if it happens and is compatible with aftermarket headers. Make it a reality!

Jsmitty02z28
06-30-13, 10:07 PM
That depends upon how much the customer is willing to pay for pre-fabbed components. The most costly investment for such things, as you said, is time and effort, especially since the most difficult part is reproducibility. The raw materials for things like the piping are relatively inexpensive, especially when compared to turbos. As such, depending upon how much a person is willing to pay, such components could be profitable. If they have the facility and ability, once they create the first working kit (if measurements are properly documented), each subsequent kit will be easier (not necessarily easy, just not as hard) to make based off the plans. It is at that point that it will become profitable. However, the kink in all of this is that there must be a market in order for such a system to be profitable. Only around 10,000 V1's were made. One must consider how many owners out of those remaining would desire such a kit. Then one must consider how many can afford one. Then you have to think about how many just won't hear about it. The numbers of kits they could eventually sell could be quite low indeed. It's a legitimate risk to embark on such an endeavor, and if including turbos offsets the costs of time and effort, then they should. I wasn't really viewing the issue through profitability in my previous post. I should have. But my real point was that the true service they could offer would be the fabrication and routing of the piping and such.

Well said. We have considered the fact that there aren't very many people still interested in modding V1s. However we are trying to find the 4-5 people that want to and are interested in doing a twin kit for this car. Routing the pipe and fabricating everything is what we do. A kit like this could take 30 days or 6 months it just depends on the interest. I came up with the idea because I too want to twin turbo my V. Either way it's getting done I just thought it would be nice to make more of them and offer them to people who want it.

Jason


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TimmyC
06-30-13, 10:26 PM
Im single, work in the canadian oil patch 2/3 of the year. I can and will afford this kit if it happens and is compatible with aftermarket headers. Make it a reality!

You guys should be hoping that it does not work with headers. They won't make any more power than manifolds and you can sell them to cut down on the cost of the kit.

Jsmitty02z28
06-30-13, 10:34 PM
You guys should be hoping that it does not work with headers. They won't make any more power than manifolds and you can sell them to cut down on the cost of the kit.

People make 1300HP on stock manifolds. Using a header isn't necessary. Our kit will use stock manifolds therefore you can take your kooks or any aftermarket header and sale them to help with cost of the turbo build. It's a win win for everybody.

Jason


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Manofmetal01
06-30-13, 11:26 PM
I like the sound provided by my long tubes. Count me out if we have to revert back. Not to mention i sold my stock exhaust and manifolds to save on my aftermarket setup. Ill give my money to edelbrock and g&g on the tvs kit theyre working on.

philistine
06-30-13, 11:50 PM
I'm interested in a TT kit, will comment later when you have more details.

Jsmitty02z28
07-01-13, 12:12 AM
I like the sound provided by my long tubes. Count me out if we have to revert back. Not to mention i sold my stock exhaust and manifolds to save on my aftermarket setup. Ill give my money to edelbrock and g&g on the tvs kit theyre working on.

The sound of longtubes is irrelevant when turbos are added.


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Jsmitty02z28
07-01-13, 12:15 AM
I like the sound provided by my long tubes. Count me out if we have to revert back. Not to mention i sold my stock exhaust and manifolds to save on my aftermarket setup. Ill give my money to edelbrock and g&g on the tvs kit theyre working on.

I'm not sure what Edelbrock kit you are referring to but I haven't seen one that produces the same numbers we are expecting.


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Jsmitty02z28
07-01-13, 12:16 AM
I'm interested in a TT kit, will comment later when you have more details.

Thank you sir we will have more details to come.

Jason


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Jsmitty02z28
07-01-13, 12:20 AM
Using a header will force us to push the turbos further back not allowing for as much ground clearance. By using the placement of the cat we are allowing for more ground clearance for lowered cars.


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CTS-V_07
07-01-13, 12:49 AM
Using headers with turbos is not the best idea... The stock manifolds work a lot better... Check out all the GTO and Camaro turbo builds on ls1tech what do you see them using stock manifolds making big power. You are stepping in a different world from superchargers. Now I wouldn't run a stock exhaust. If you guys are just providing hot & cold side piping, IC, turbos the price needs to be around 5000 IMO... Look at the gto, g8 vette world upp's stepped up and built a affordable turbo kit that is under 6000 for everything you need.

Jsmitty02z28
07-01-13, 12:55 AM
Using headers with turbos is not the best idea... The stock manifolds work a lot better... Check out all the GTO and Camaro turbo builds on ls1tech what do you see them using stock manifolds making big power. You are stepping in a different world from superchargers. Now I wouldn't run a stock exhaust. If you guys are just providing hot & cold side piping, IC, turbos the price needs to be around 5000 IMO... Look at the gto, g8 vette world upp's stepped up and built a affordable turbo kit that is under 6000 for everything you need.

Thanks for the feedback we will keep this in mind when planning this build. I appreciate the support on stock manifolds.

Jason


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CTS-V_07
07-01-13, 01:18 AM
I'm interested in a kit also.. Well when I see the price that is lol. I have been planning a turbo build since I got the car but a kit would save me a lot of time.

253ctsv
07-01-13, 01:22 AM
People make 1300HP on stock manifolds. Using a header isn't necessary. Our kit will use stock manifolds therefore you can take your kooks or any aftermarket header and sale them to help with cost of the turbo build. It's a win win for everybody.

Jason

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Whoa whoa whoa. I put my kooks on a week ago and now you're telling me I should take them off!!! Lol

Manofmetal01
07-01-13, 07:33 AM
I'm not sure what Edelbrock kit you are referring to but I haven't seen one that produces the same numbers we are expecting.


You are quite right, it is only proposed to be about 550ish hp...which is enough at this time as this wont be a track car until after I have a certain 2011 coupe in my hands.
Im still excited to see what you come up with, I just wont be joining in the fun.

VincentT
07-01-13, 10:11 AM
One issue to watch out for is going to be ground clearance. Most of the TT Vs that have the turbos off of the headers have pretty sketchy ground clearance, particularly with the charge pipe coming to the front past the subframe. One possible solution that I've investigated for myself is oval piping. Spintech has good examples of piping as well as transitions. I know the laminar flow of oval piping is completely different from round pipe, but it might be an avenue to investigate.

philistine
07-01-13, 10:24 AM
The sound of longtubes is irrelevant when turbos are added.

I would rather hear a turbo spooling and obnoxious BOV. Would the stock exhaust manifold spool faster than long tubes or is that irrelevant?

darkman
07-01-13, 11:10 AM
Used Kooks are easy to sell.

DMM
07-01-13, 11:52 AM
I would rather hear a turbo spooling and obnoxious BOV. Would the stock exhaust manifold spool faster than long tubes or is that irrelevant?

Yes, they absolutely will. Headers dissipate heat too quickly which only serves to degrade the performance of a turbo. In this case, flow takes a back seat to thermal efficiency.

CTS-V_07
07-01-13, 12:13 PM
^ I agree

runsfromdacops
07-01-13, 01:21 PM
I completely. Disagree flow is absolutely more important than heat. I have headers on my car and I think it is working out just fine as it is the highest hp V1.

If u want to make a kit ppl will want the turbos need to go in the engine bay with no electric scavenger pump to fail.

Thats just my .02

Jsmitty02z28
07-01-13, 02:36 PM
I completely. Disagree flow is absolutely more important than heat. I have headers on my car and I think it is working out just fine as it is the highest hp V1.

If u want to make a kit ppl will want the turbos need to go in the engine bay with no electric scavenger pump to fail.

Thats just my .02

LS guys make 1300+ RWHP with truck manifolds all day. Turbo headers are over kill.

Jason


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253ctsv
07-01-13, 03:23 PM
LS guys make 1300+ RWHP with truck manifolds all day. Turbo headers are over kill.

Jason

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1300hp. but headers are overkill?

Jsmitty02z28
07-01-13, 05:52 PM
1300hp. but headers are overkill?

I'm saying manifolds have been proven to make over 1300rwhp. There is no need for headers it's an expense you can do without. If y'all are worried about the headers you e already purchased put them for sale on here and request stock manifolds back. They'll sale within the day guaranteed.

Jason


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Jsmitty02z28
07-01-13, 05:53 PM
However we are still in the design process if the money is right and the customer is willing to work with us we will build a kit to fit what you have.

Jason


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253ctsv
07-01-13, 06:36 PM
I think I'm out. Thanks n good luck guys

runsfromdacops
07-01-13, 06:49 PM
Yes manifolds can make power but a set of real turbo manfolds or long tubes will spool sooner make more power and at lower egts.

None of the big boys use cast manifold and there is a reason why.

I getting real sick of seeing guys just regurgitate stuff they read on tech like its the law with no 1st hand experience

philistine
07-01-13, 07:03 PM
Yeah I think the bolt-on kits would be a lot more complicated trying to use such a variety of NA headers. Either a turbo manifold with the kit or use stock makes sense - whichever gives less turbo lag and more ground clearance. I'm lowered, not slammed and my headers scrape on some speedbumps.

This may be obvious for some but the smaller turbos mentioned, GT30s - do they require an oil line? I think some models have 2 different types of bearings, journal which require lubrication and cooling and ball bearing which do not.

I think prepping the valvetrain is a good idea but would forging the bottom be a requirement? How much boost is capable of making it to the intake? There's also the question of a how boost is controlled, spring on the wastegate(s) or BCS interface? I'm somewhat familiar how the imports work, either an ECU that has that function incorporated or install Haltech, AEM, etc.

brngrhd
07-01-13, 07:25 PM
Yes manifolds can make power but a set of real turbo manfolds or long tubes will spool sooner make more power and at lower egts.

None of the big boys use cast manifold and there is a reason why.

I getting real sick of seeing guys just regurgitate stuff they read on tech like its the law with no 1st hand experience

You are correct, BUT, no one with a serious turbo setup is running n/a headers with turbos slapped on the ends of them either. They are running very thick tube, custom made, turbo headers...... The kooks would not last with turbos slapped on the ends, you think wrapping them makes them hold in heat and crack put some turbos on the ends....

Jsmitty02z28
07-01-13, 07:42 PM
Yes manifolds can make power but a set of real turbo manfolds or long tubes will spool sooner make more power and at lower egts.

None of the big boys use cast manifold and there is a reason why.

I getting real sick of seeing guys just regurgitate stuff they read on tech like its the law with no 1st hand experience

Daniel Raff ERL built 5.3L sleeved 427 made 1260rwhp at 29lbs of boost on stock manifolds. He runs sub 5 second 1/8th miles. That's 1st hand experience seeing that I watched him build his whole car.

Jason


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Jsmitty02z28
07-01-13, 07:43 PM
I think I'm out. Thanks n good luck guys

Thanks you too on your future builds

Jason


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Jsmitty02z28
07-01-13, 07:48 PM
Yeah I think the bolt-on kits would be a lot more complicated trying to use such a variety of NA headers. Either a turbo manifold with the kit or use stock makes sense - whichever gives less turbo lag and more ground clearance. I'm lowered, not slammed and my headers scrape on some speedbumps.

This may be obvious for some but the smaller turbos mentioned, GT30s - do they require an oil line? I think some models have 2 different types of bearings, journal which require lubrication and cooling and ball bearing which do not.

I think prepping the valvetrain is a good idea but would forging the bottom be a requirement? How much boost is capable of making it to the intake? There's also the question of a how boost is controlled, spring on the wastegate(s) or BCS interface? I'm somewhat familiar how the imports work, either an ECU that has that function incorporated or install Haltech, AEM, etc.

Ground clearance won't be an issue. We are not going to put our name on a product that eventually could be a hassle. We will produce a kit that will be nice and no worries with ground clearance.

The GT30 are going to be oil less due to cost efficiency. Valve train upgrades would be recommended eventually depending on the power you are looking to make the G5X1 cam is a great cam for FI. Something we might consider as a packaged deal.

Jason


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runsfromdacops
07-01-13, 11:15 PM
Daniel Raff ERL built 5.3L sleeved 427 made 1260rwhp at 29lbs of boost on stock manifolds. He runs sub 5 second 1/8th miles. That's 1st hand experience seeing that I watched him build his whole car.

Jason

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Like I said. It can be done and has but real turbo mamanifolds with make more power with a broader power band and lower egt.

Flow is far more important then heat.

I think then some nice highend ss headers would survive just fine with a turbo on the end.
But thats not really what im advocating here. Just that real turbo manifolds wither it be 16 gauge or sch 40 pipe will have major gains over stock manifolds. Plus u get to pick the best turbo placement and ground clearance

CTS-V_07
07-01-13, 11:31 PM
I think he is trying to build a kit that we can buy that want brake the bank, but I maybe wrong. A set of turbo manifolds will make the cost of the kit go up. Which is bad news for some people. IMO if I'm going to drop 8-10k on a turbo kit I will pay a shop to do a custom build. Either way no need for kooks headers. He is just trying to find out if there is a market for the kit. We don't have many companies trying to provide us with bolt on turbo kits out there.

philistine
07-01-13, 11:37 PM
Yeah high end ss headers is kinda subjective - it's empirical right? Seen a lot of ss headers crack on other platforms. A robust iron turbo manifold seems to last longer. Those are usually a log style quick spool in the import world - no dyno queen numbers.

A tested robust turbo manifold would be nice - something that makes a nice spool and resistant to cracks. If the stockers crack, replacement is super EZ so I like that option being that this car is super limited in the TT world.

Can you just commit to stock exhaust manifolds for the GT30 then give expanded options for the larger turbo package?

Jsmitty02z28
07-02-13, 12:05 AM
I think he is trying to build a kit that we can buy that want brake the bank, but I maybe wrong. A set of turbo manifolds will make the cost of the kit go up. Which is bad news for some people. IMO if I'm going to drop 8-10k on a turbo kit I will pay a shop to do a custom build. Either way no need for kooks headers. He is just trying to find out if there is a market for the kit. We don't have many companies trying to provide us with bolt on turbo kits out there.

Well said

Jason


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Jsmitty02z28
07-02-13, 12:09 AM
Yeah high end ss headers is kinda subjective - it's empirical right? Seen a lot of ss headers crack on other platforms. A robust iron turbo manifold seems to last longer. Those are usually a log style quick spool in the import world - no dyno queen numbers.

A tested robust turbo manifold would be nice - something that makes a nice spool and resistant to cracks. If the stockers crack, replacement is super EZ so I like that option being that this car is super limited in the TT world.

Can you just commit to stock exhaust manifolds for the GT30 then give expanded options for the larger turbo package?

We will build anything for the customer so yes if the customer wants a larger turbo build we will have options for them as well. But the GT30 kit will bolt up to stock manifolds.

Jason


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Jsmitty02z28
07-02-13, 12:11 AM
I'm gonna bring numbers to Louis on Wednesday so if you're really interested lets get a list going. Either PM me or write on here.

Thanks guys
Jason


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DMM
07-02-13, 06:06 PM
Yes manifolds can make power but a set of real turbo manfolds or long tubes will spool sooner make more power and at lower egts.

None of the big boys use cast manifold and there is a reason why.

I getting real sick of seeing guys just regurgitate stuff they read on tech like its the law with no 1st hand experience

Not simply regurgitating useless info from a tech board posting, rather stating facts reinforced by thermodynamic principles. You're right, there is a reason that tube headers are used just as there is a reason they are always wrapped when used with a turbo, and it's not simply to keep everything under the hood cool. Tube headers are hands down easier to fab and less expensive than casting manifolds, yet the trade off is that they more readily succumb to the effects of latent heat, most often in the form of cracks in the tubing itself.

Regarding flow...what difference does it make how well a fixed orifice flows when you intentionally place a restriction in the system? Total flow of any given system is limited to that of its restriction. In our particular case, 1 7/8" headers are usually good for about 10 whp on a N/A CTS-V compared to OE iron manifolds (without cats).

I understand what you're saying, and there is a difference between what works and what's ideal. I am in no way meaning to impugn your work as you have proven yourself a very capable fabricator. If you choose to delve into the theory a little deeper you'll understand my perspective a little better.

philistine
07-02-13, 06:47 PM
I'm gonna bring numbers to Louis on Wednesday so if you're really interested lets get a list going. Either PM me or write on here.

Thanks guys
Jason


I'm interested! This will be offered as a kit from LG Motorsports? Also, you might want to scroll back through and find other names that expressed interest as well.

RyRidesMotoX
07-02-13, 07:04 PM
Dang, I guess I haven't kept up with this thread... 9 pages sheesh.

I want to add my .02 real quick... In a remote rear twin setup, long tubes could possibly be beneficial. But in a kit where the turbos bolt on the stock manifolds in place of the cats, cast iron manifolds are best. Most turbo applications for street use have cast iron manifolds when the turbo bolts onto the manifold. Cast manifolds are incredibly durable at least in my experience with turbo diesels and gas motors. When the turbo is remote from the engine, the heat doesn't build up as badly sure, thinner long tubes are fine. Also you have to be running an internal waste gate on these so the heat is going to go up from that (since you are sending highly pressurized highly heated air through the turbo because it has the waste gate built in). I would think you want to have oil piped right in with a pretty good oil cooler for the motor and turbo to take the extra stress there. I mean yea heat is good in a turbo but you have to control it. if you have an oiled turbo it is cooled from the oil under high load situations and helps a lot. I get you are trying to build an economic kit here. I totally support it. But if I was going to do something like this (granted I'm not) it would have to be an engine oiled turbo just for day to day reliability like my last car was. I get it if you are just going to run a 1/4 mile... No problem with turbos that have internal lubrication there. They only deal with heat for a few seconds. But let's say I want to drive from my house to Vegas with a set of twins on the V. That about 5 hours each way, up a rather large grade for several hours and knowing me, I would be in boost for the better part of 2 hours constantly going up into the mountains between LA and Vegas. I'm not saying that internally oiled turbos would not be able to take it, I'm just saying, for piece of mind, I think having oil pumped in, constantly lubricating and cooling the turbo would co a long way to increasing longevity. The internal/external oiled turbo discussion is like the camshaft lobe discussions. certain ones are hard on valve train but they sound good and make lots of power but there are threads everywhere about how they fail because people spec these gnarly drag cams for daily street use. Its the same with turbos gotta spec the right ones.

Jsmitty02z28
07-02-13, 08:00 PM
I'm interested! This will be offered as a kit from LG Motorsports? Also, you might want to scroll back through and find other names that expressed interest as well.

No this is not through LG Mororsports.

Jason


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Jsmitty02z28
07-02-13, 08:06 PM
Dang, I guess I haven't kept up with this thread... 9 pages sheesh.

I want to add my .02 real quick... In a remote rear twin setup, long tubes could possibly be beneficial. But in a kit where the turbos bolt on the stock manifolds in place of the cats, cast iron manifolds are best. Most turbo applications for street use have cast iron manifolds when the turbo bolts onto the manifold. Cast manifolds are incredibly durable at least in my experience with turbo diesels and gas motors. When the turbo is remote from the engine, the heat doesn't build up as badly sure, thinner long tubes are fine. Also you have to be running an internal waste gate on these so the heat is going to go up from that (since you are sending highly pressurized highly heated air through the turbo because it has the waste gate built in). I would think you want to have oil piped right in with a pretty good oil cooler for the motor and turbo to take the extra stress there. I mean yea heat is good in a turbo but you have to control it. if you have an oiled turbo it is cooled from the oil under high load situations and helps a lot. I get you are trying to build an economic kit here. I totally support it. But if I was going to do something like this (granted I'm not) it would have to be an engine oiled turbo just for day to day reliability like my last car was. I get it if you are just going to run a 1/4 mile... No problem with turbos that have internal lubrication there. They only deal with heat for a few seconds. But let's say I want to drive from my house to Vegas with a set of twins on the V. That about 5 hours each way, up a rather large grade for several hours and knowing me, I would be in boost for the better part of 2 hours constantly going up into the mountains between LA and Vegas. I'm not saying that internally oiled turbos would not be able to take it, I'm just saying, for piece of mind, I think having oil pumped in, constantly lubricating and cooling the turbo would co a long way to increasing longevity. The internal/external oiled turbo discussion is like the camshaft lobe discussions. certain ones are hard on valve train but they sound good and make lots of power but there are threads everywhere about how they fail because people spec these gnarly drag cams for daily street use. Its the same with turbos gotta spec the right ones.

We appreciate your feedback. We're not opposed to using oil cooled turbos in fact I wouldn't mind it at all, however you come into a problem asking customers or shops to drill into there oil pan and weld a bung in to accommodate these lines. Not impossible but with the added work comes more liability. The oil less is just an easier option. When we crunch the numbers will decide which turbos we will offer

Thanks for the info

Jason


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CTS-V_07
07-02-13, 08:14 PM
If the turbos are going to be where the cats are you will probable have to pump the oil due to the turbos not being high enough to drain properly. So with that being said the oil return line could be run to the oil cap. If they wanted to go back stock they just buy a oil cap. The ones that don't mind about drilling in the oil pan or valve cover can go that route.

Jsmitty02z28
07-02-13, 08:45 PM
These are people that expressed interest so far. Thanks guys.

Philistine
Ny's Caddy
Rand49er
CTS-V_07
Onebadcaddie
Hamstar

Aftermarket headers
Manofmetal01
DMM


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philistine
07-02-13, 08:59 PM
Regarding the oil cooled turbos...possibly consider a dry sump system to cool the turbos and incorporate an oil cooler. I believe the Exa-pump is pretty reliable. I know this drives up the cost but just something to consider.

http://turbowerx.com/Scavenge_Pumps/Exa-Pump/Exa-Pump.html

Jsmitty02z28
07-02-13, 09:14 PM
We've put dry sumps on alot of cars. It is an option just a little more costly.

Thanks, hason


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rand49er
07-02-13, 09:18 PM
These are people that expressed interest so far. Thanks guys.

Philistine
Ny's Caddy
Rand49er
CTS-V_07
Onebadcaddie
Hamstar

Aftermarket headers
Manofmetal01
DMM


Sent from AutoGuide.com Free App (http://www.autoguide.com/mobile)Uh-h ... I'm "interested" all right, but I'm not interested in removing my maggie and installing turbos. Sorry.

I'm just an observer in this thread.

Jsmitty02z28
07-02-13, 09:45 PM
Philistine
Ny's Caddy
CTS-V_07
Onebadcaddie
Hamstar

Aftermarket headers
Manofmetal01
DMM


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NC-V
07-02-13, 11:10 PM
There are only two spots on the V1's where you could put a "bolt on" TT kit, they are in the factory cat location or the factory muffler location. Any other spot under the car and you will not have ground clearance, and to do anything in the engine bay would require wayy too much modification to be "bolt on".

Pretty much any of the long tube headers out there I have seen terminate too close to the floor area under the car to mount a turbo and each manufacturer would require different length piping and attachment... again, not really feasible to build a bolt-on kit for headers.

My thoughts on a bolt on turbo kit: Design the base kit around a safe power/boost level for a factory motor (~6-9 psi), and let people modify from there as they wish. Use the factory cat location with factory manifolds. Supply all hot and cold pipes (to mate to factory exhaust location), valves, cooler, oil supply/return, turbos, etc. as a "tuner" kit. Then with enough interest, also offer it as a complete kit with injectors, BAP or replacement pump and handheld tuner as a complete kit for the consumer in their garage (obviously this would require a large enough market to go this far).

Twins typically require more R&D than a supercharger setup, but also have more flexibility in terms of power, so expect it to be priced accordingly. Good luck with this, I will be watching intently.

CTS-V_07
07-02-13, 11:20 PM
^ I agree....
I am interested in the kit, but I want be in a position to buy until next year. I'm just throwing that out there.

Jsmitty02z28
07-02-13, 11:26 PM
There are only two spots on the V1's where you could put a "bolt on" TT kit, they are in the factory cat location or the factory muffler location. Any other spot under the car and you will not have ground clearance, and to do anything in the engine bay would require wayy too much modification to be "bolt on".

Pretty much any of the long tube headers out there I have seen terminate too close to the floor area under the car to mount a turbo and each manufacturer would require different length piping and attachment... again, not really feasible to build a bolt-on kit for headers.

My thoughts on a bolt on turbo kit: Design the base kit around a safe power/boost level for a factory motor (~6-9 psi), and let people modify from there as they wish. Use the factory cat location with factory manifolds. Supply all hot and cold pipes (to mate to factory exhaust location), valves, cooler, oil supply/return, turbos, etc. as a "tuner" kit. Then with enough interest, also offer it as a complete kit with injectors, BAP or replacement pump and handheld tuner as a complete kit for the consumer in their garage (obviously this would require a large enough market to go this far).

Twins typically require more R&D than a supercharger setup, but also have more flexibility in terms of power, so expect it to be priced accordingly. Good luck with this, I will be watching intently.

Thanks for the feedback! We will keep this in my mind when planning for this. A couple different levels of kits would be ideal as long as the customers are there . Thanks again

Jason


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Blown_Red_97z
07-03-13, 02:04 AM
I think this kit is a good idea and I would consider it. I also think a lot of ctsv owners here haven't come from the ls1/ls2 gto crowd and have no idea about the aps tt kit that was made for those cars. I've seen a few if those kits and they were great. But you have to remember the clutch will need to be upgraded, the fuel pump, injectors, rear end and eventually the transmission. Then you will have a reliable 600+ rwhp with a good tune. You won't be able to slap a tt kit on and call it a day. Also why do people keep talking about LTs with a tt kit? Nobody does that unless its like a rear mount sts kit, that doesn't make sense.

Jsmitty02z28
07-03-13, 09:55 AM
I think this kit is a good idea and I would consider it. I also think a lot of ctsv owners here haven't come from the ls1/ls2 gto crowd and have no idea about the aps tt kit that was made for those cars. I've seen a few if those kits and they were great. But you have to remember the clutch will need to be upgraded, the fuel pump, injectors, rear end and eventually the transmission. Then you will have a reliable 600+ rwhp with a good tune. You won't be able to slap a tt kit on and call it a day. Also why do people keep talking about LTs with a tt kit? Nobody does that unless its like a rear mount sts kit, that doesn't make sense.

When doing a TT Kit whether it be APS or our kit you're always going to have extra cost on other upgrades that's not our part. This will be a streetable TT Kit not a kit you plan on setting any records with. Our trans and clutch are fine at this level of power. Our goal is for a customer to go to their mechanic shop say LG. and say I want a TT Kit for my V1. Instead if them building a custom kit which most shops won't they buy our setup, at that time the salesman will ask about other upgrades like fuel or trans or clutch. However just like the APS kit it won't be mandatory. It's all in what the customer is wanting. Me I want a TT Kit that I can drive daily. Ill go to the track or go to events in it but its not going to be a drag car. If I was gonna do that I would put a Auto in it. A fuel upgrade will be in the works but I'm not planning in this to be a 15k dollar build.

Jason


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xbladr
07-03-13, 08:41 PM
this would need to be in the 5-7k range pretty much ready to roll with upgraded pump and injectors. Everything except the tuner as everyone is going to have their own preference on that I would think. If you start getting into a bare kit that is going to cost 8-9k you may drive away the limited business you will have in the first place.

rand49er
07-05-13, 09:57 AM
There are only two spots on the V1's where you could put a "bolt on" TT kit, they are in the factory cat location or the factory muffler location. Any other spot under the car and you will not have ground clearance, and to do anything in the engine bay would require wayy too much modification to be "bolt on".

Pretty much any of the long tube headers out there I have seen terminate too close to the floor area under the car to mount a turbo and each manufacturer would require different length piping and attachment... again, not really feasible to build a bolt-on kit for headers.

My thoughts on a bolt on turbo kit: Design the base kit around a safe power/boost level for a factory motor (~6-9 psi), and let people modify from there as they wish. Use the factory cat location with factory manifolds. Supply all hot and cold pipes (to mate to factory exhaust location), valves, cooler, oil supply/return, turbos, etc. as a "tuner" kit. Then with enough interest, also offer it as a complete kit with injectors, BAP or replacement pump and handheld tuner as a complete kit for the consumer in their garage (obviously this would require a large enough market to go this far).

Twins typically require more R&D than a supercharger setup, but also have more flexibility in terms of power, so expect it to be priced accordingly. Good luck with this, I will be watching intently.One of the most rational posts in this thread thus far, IMHO.

philistine
07-07-13, 12:00 AM
^^^yeah, I agree. My post is coming from a DIY enthusiast and mechanically inclined.

I stopped by my local speedshop and discussed this kit. I believe he made some calls to LG jr for some basic info on the kit. Anyways, with a goal of 600-650whp on a stock block was more than a little risky was the feedback. They tune 5psi on a stock LS1/LS6 block. Spit-balling hp vs boost numbers...it is roughly 24whp for every 1psi boost.


IF 5psi makes 500whp then doing the math says 9psi will bring you into the 600whp range. Based on these assumptions, the block has to be yanked and built to handle that kinda boost. The fueling is the other issue. There are tons of threads on fueling issues getting past 550whp. A return line would be needed along with larger fuel pump(s) and wiring etc.

Upgrading the fuel system is within my DIY talent but yanking the block and building it is a learning curve for me. When my speedshop was informing me of what is required to give that kind of power reliably and the basic cost they charge...I was like phuuuuuuuck thaaaaat! In order to bring the cost significantly down, I gotta keep this DIY. I'm only on day 2 of researching how to yank and build an LS6 with a Chris Werner hand book. All I can say is I got 4-5 months to figure it out and get it done myself.

I spoke with the shop tech who does most of the yanking and installing of engines etc. His advice was to go with a different block...LSX. I think his reasoning was because GM doesn't make the LS6 anymore...

TimmyC
07-07-13, 12:34 AM
The LS6 block will easily handle 600rwhp. There is no need for a $2000 iron block at that level.

Return style fuel system isn't required either. My STS-V had no trouble at 575rwhp with the same fuel system as in the CTS-V1. I'm not sure if the pump is the same though. I was using the stock pump with a BAP on it.

Don't over-think this. If any stock part is not up to the task you can turn the boost down till you get time and funds to upgrade it.

Jsmitty02z28
07-07-13, 12:56 AM
^^^yeah, I agree. My post is coming from a DIY enthusiast and mechanically inclined.

I stopped by my local speedshop and discussed this kit. I believe he made some calls to LG jr for some basic info on the kit. Anyways, with a goal of 600-650whp on a stock block was more than a little risky was the feedback. They tune 5psi on a stock LS1/LS6 block. Spit-balling hp vs boost numbers...it is roughly 24whp for every 1psi boost.


IF 5psi makes 500whp then doing the math says 9psi will bring you into the 600whp range. Based on these assumptions, the block has to be yanked and built to handle that kinda boost. The fueling is the other issue. There are tons of threads on fueling issues getting past 550whp. A return line would be needed along with larger fuel pump(s) and wiring etc.

Upgrading the fuel system is within my DIY talent but yanking the block and building it is a learning curve for me. When my speedshop was informing me of what is required to give that kind of power reliably and the basic cost they charge...I was like phuuuuuuuck thaaaaat! In order to bring the cost significantly down, I gotta keep this DIY. I'm only on day 2 of researching how to yank and build an LS6 with a Chris Werner hand book. All I can say is I got 4-5 months to figure it out and get it done myself.

I spoke with the shop tech who does most of the yanking and installing of engines etc. His advice was to go with a different block...LSX. I think his reasoning was because GM doesn't make the LS6 anymore...

I believe you are referring to SpeedSouth. Yes they called Anthony and was Informed that Louis is more than capable of producing this kit. Stock LS6 will handle the horsepower no problem. That's a shop trying to get an extra dollar out of you. I worked with SpeedSouth in fact I use to ship to them on a regular basis.

Thanks for the feedback


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philistine
07-07-13, 02:30 PM
I believe you are referring to SpeedSouth. Yes they called Anthony and was Informed that Louis is more than capable of producing this kit. Stock LS6 will handle the horsepower no problem. That's a shop trying to get an extra dollar out of you. I worked with SpeedSouth in fact I use to ship to them on a regular basis.

Thanks for the feedback

Yep that's the shop. I pressed the issue with Jim on the reliability sustaining that power. From there it just kinda went into discussing motor builds. So many of their customers put a ton of wear and tear at the strip and track. Regarding the TT kit, yeah he pretty much said it should be a quality kit. I'll just focus on the rear-end, clutch, and valve train for now. That should keep me busy for a few weekends.

Thanks!

Jsmitty02z28
07-07-13, 06:42 PM
I know by the high volume of race parts that they were big into the racing scene in fact I delivered a motor and carbon fiber fenders to them last march for a race car they were taking to the track. It's a nice shop.


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philistine
07-07-13, 08:19 PM
While you guys are great at fab work...I would love to see a fuel kit as an add-on. On my little s2k, I used a Fullblown 340lph (super quiet) fuel pump with ID1000cc injectors and my injector duty was 66% WOT with a FPR set at 50psi connected to a vacuum line. No boost spark or BAP crap.

I don't mind rewiring and running new lines. A dual pump hangar, drop in tank kit would be really nice. Just a FYI... I ran out of fuel using a 255 Walbro and RC750cc on the 4-banger at 25psi boost making a tad over 500whp.

I don't expect the TT kit to include such an elaborate fuel system but possibly consider it as an add-on.

Blown_Red_97z
07-08-13, 02:49 AM
I agree BAP is just a band aid. A good kit should call out using larger injectors and fuel pump, or you should expect to do those things with the install. Also I've seen tt ls2 gtos make we'll over 12 psi on a stock motor when the fuel and tune are done right. These motors can take the boost.... The rest of the drive train might not like it so much :)

HAMSTAR
07-08-13, 06:43 AM
If this kit takes off, Max can expect to sell a lot more 8.8 kits...

Jsmitty02z28
07-08-13, 06:09 PM
The count down starts 30 days till we start this kit.

Thanks guys for the feedback

Jason


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philistine
07-09-13, 11:41 PM
If this kit takes off, Max can expect to sell a lot more 8.8 kits...

Well, he just got a purchase from me. That along with a new clutch should unlock some fun.

H-town_V
08-04-13, 05:14 PM
Is this still in the works?

rand49er
08-05-13, 08:35 AM
The count down starts 30 days till we start this kit ...


Is this still in the works?They start this Wednesday. Two more days.

lollygagger8
08-05-13, 01:19 PM
I want pics, and prices. I'd be up for this instead of a Procharger if it's a legit kit and priced well.

LS6's will take 600HP all day everyday. I'll be the guinea pig and try it out. I ain't scuuurrred.

----------


These are people that expressed interest so far. Thanks guys.

Philistine
Ny's Caddy
Rand49er
CTS-V_07
Onebadcaddie
Hamstar

Aftermarket headers
Manofmetal01
DMM


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Add me to the list

philistine
08-05-13, 04:35 PM
I believe by "start" he means begin measurements, fabrication, and testing. I'm guessing it would take 3-4 months before any kits start rolling out. It would make one hell of a x-mas stocking stuffer!

Kaddo
10-01-13, 06:36 AM
These are people that expressed interest so far. Thanks guys.

Philistine
Ny's Caddy
Rand49er
CTS-V_07
Onebadcaddie
Hamstar

Aftermarket headers
Manofmetal01
DMM


Sent from AutoGuide.com Free App (http://www.autoguide.com/mobile)

Add me as well thanks!

lollygagger8
10-01-13, 01:32 PM
Any updates!??

Darth Vader
11-01-13, 12:11 AM
Put me on the list. I just got a quote from a local shop looking to do the same thing.

lollygagger8
11-01-13, 03:28 PM
:wtf3: how is this coming along???

philistine
11-01-13, 04:59 PM
I asked a local shop to put in a call regarding the kit. Probably should hear something back next week. My local shop does very high end custom turbo installs but it is in no way cost friendly - they would make kits based on mine if I went that route but the price would be enough to turn away almost everyone - they are used to guys dropping $20k-50k average for builds.

DMM
11-01-13, 05:47 PM
Dude has not responded in forever...I think it's safe to start spamming here now.

H-town_V
11-01-13, 06:21 PM
Yea I think this thread has turned into a dud.

philistine
11-01-13, 08:09 PM
Yea I think this thread has turned into a dud.

if that's the case...http://ls1tech.com/forums/cadillac-cts-v/1686303-new-v1-bolt-twin-turbo-kit.html

FuzzyLogic
11-01-13, 09:15 PM
Here's my suggestion:

http://boostfreak.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/huuge-turbo.jpg

lollygagger8
11-05-13, 11:25 AM
Time for hot girlie pics

Motown Cad
11-10-13, 09:58 PM
WTH. smitty lets this run on for 8 pages then just drops off with not even as much as a "cant do it". Thats a lot of foreplay and teasing and then walking out while "going to the bathroom". sheesh

lollygagger8
11-11-13, 01:51 PM
:rules: ~ rolex

DMM
11-11-13, 01:54 PM
It's about time...what took you so long?

lollygagger8
11-12-13, 12:13 PM
It's about time...what took you so long?

I got a warning email in my inbox.

Seriously?? :kick:

thebigjimsho
11-12-13, 01:17 PM
Why is it a surprise? It was a bit over the top. Or, about the top...

heavymetals
11-12-13, 01:27 PM
"Twin Turbo kit" built and distributed by the same people who produced the smash hit "Waiting for Godot".

The V1 is almost 10 years old.

I don't think a kit is coming anytime soon or later.

lollygagger8
11-12-13, 03:30 PM
:mad2:WTF HAPPENED to my AVATAR!!!:mad2:

thebigjimsho
11-12-13, 06:16 PM
Can't see it on mobile. Was it dirrty?

heavymetals
11-12-13, 06:29 PM
Can't see it on mobile. Was it dirrty?

Not in this forum.

DMM
11-12-13, 07:14 PM
I'm with Lolly...this thread is dead. We should be able to post this thing full of boobies.

Florian
11-12-13, 08:14 PM
I got a warning email in my inbox.

Seriously?? :kick:

Yes, seriously. Keep it in check or youll have some time out of the sandbox.

F

thebigjimsho
11-13-13, 12:25 AM
You guys should learn code so you could show us naked girls using binary, like the Matrix...

lollygagger8
11-14-13, 11:08 AM
Yes, seriously. Keep it in check or youll have some time out of the sandbox.

F

I've had the same exact avatar for YEARS. The chick wasn't even nude!!! Neither was the pic I posted! This forum used to have a great spam thread that was actually FUN to visit. Gimme a freakin break!

I even sent Rolex 2-3 pm's...none answered.

Sorry Hitlers

philistine
11-14-13, 11:15 AM
I don't think any soccer moms are going to wonder into a twin turbo thread in the performance section of the first gen cts-v and gasp at any segsi women in their semi dressed b-day suits.

:bouncy2:

thebigjimsho
11-14-13, 07:19 PM
I've had the same exact avatar for YEARS. The chick wasn't even nude!!! Neither was the pic I posted! This forum used to have a great spam thread that was actually FUN to visit. Gimme a freakin break!

I even sent Rolex 2-3 pm's...none answered.

Sorry Hitlers

Maybe you were so hypnotized by the rear end, that you ignored the top. Maybe you couldn't see a nipple, but you still saw too much.

H-town_V
11-14-13, 08:36 PM
*talking*
Oh my god
Becky, look at her butt
It's so big
She looks like one of those rap guys girlfriends
Who understands those rap guys
They only talk to her because she looks like a total prostitute
I mean her butt
It's just so big
I can't believe it's so round
It's just out there
I mean, it's gross
Look, she's just so black

*rap*
I like big butts and I can not lie
You other brothers can't deny
That when a girl walks in with an itty bitty waist
And a round thing in your face
You get sprung
Wanna pull up tough
'cause you notice that butt was stuffed
Deep in the jeans she's wearing
I'm hooked and I can't stop staring
Oh, baby I wanna get with ya
And take your picture
My homeboys tried to warn me
But that butt you got
Make Me so horney
Ooh, rump of smooth skin
You say you wanna get in my benz
Well use me use me 'cause you aint that average groupy

I've seen them dancin'
To hell with romancin'
She's Sweat,Wet, got it goin like a turbo vette

I'm tired of magazines
Saying flat butts are the thing
Take the average black man and ask him that
She gotta pack much back

So Fellas (yeah) Fellas(yeah)
Has your girlfriend got the butt (hell yeah)
Well shake it, shake it, shake it, shake it, shake that healthy butt
Baby got back

(LA face with Oakland booty)

I like'em round and big
And when I'm throwin a gig
I just can't help myself
I'm actin like an animal
Now here's my scandal

I wanna get you home
And UH, double up UH UH
I aint talkin bout playboy
'cause silicone parts were made for toys
I wannem real thick and juicy
So find that juicy double
Mixalot's in trouble
Beggin for a piece of that bubble
So I'm lookin' at rock videos
Knockin these bimbos walkin like hoes
You can have them bimbos
I'll keep my women like Flo Jo
A word to the thick soul sistas
I wanna get with ya
I won't cus or hit ya
But I gotta be straight when I say I wanna --
Til the break of dawn
Baby Got it goin on
Alot of pimps won't like this song
'cause them punks lie to hit it and quit it
But I'd rather stay and play
'cause I'm long and I'm strong
And I'm down to get the friction on

So ladies (yeah), Ladies (yeah)
Do you wanna roll in my Mercedes (yeah)
Then turn around
Stick it out
Even white boys got to shout
Baby got back

(LA face with the Oakland booty)

Yeah baby
When it comes to females
Cosmo ain't got nothin to do with my selection
36-24-36
Only if she's 5'3"

So your girlfriend throws a Honda
Playin workout tapes by Fonda
But Fonda ain't got a motor in the back of her Honda
My anaconda don't want none unless you've got buns hun
You can do side bends or sit-ups, but please don't lose that butt
Some brothers wanna play that hard role
And tell you that the butt ain't gold
So they toss it and leave it
And I pull up quick to retrieve it
So cosmo says you're fat
Well I ain't down with that
'cause your waste is small and your curves are kickin
And I'm thinkin bout stickin
To the beanpole dames in the magazines
You aint it miss thing
Give me a sista I can't resist her
Red beans and rice did miss her
Some knucklehead tried to dis
'cause his girls were on my list
He had game but he chose to hit 'em
And pulled up quick to get with 'em
So ladies if the butt is round
And you wanna triple X throw down
Dial 1-900-MIXALOT and kick them nasty thoughts
Baby got back
Baby got back

lollygagger8
11-15-13, 02:02 PM
Maybe you were so hypnotized by the rear end, that you ignored the top. Maybe you couldn't see a nipple, but you still saw too much.

Trust me. If there was nippage.....I woulda saw it.

This is the kind of thing that makes people leave this forum.

CTSV_Rob
11-15-13, 02:44 PM
Yes, seriously. Keep it in check or youll have some time out of the sandbox.

F
Admin now huh? What made you decide to move up in the ranks?

BTW, if Jim isn't going to do it... it's you'll.

Keep the peace.

SevillianSTS
11-15-13, 03:05 PM
I'd put it back on there lolly. Been there forever...

Look at all the contributions you've given this site. Pretty petty of someone.

I'm tired of people moving threads around too, one day its here, next day... who knows.

CTSV_Rob
11-15-13, 03:11 PM
I have had my mixes with the mods but they are just doing what they believe to be right. We are all human so mistakes will be made.

Talk reasonably to them and things should work themselves out. Sorry for the troubles you're having.

thebigjimsho
11-15-13, 11:56 PM
Trust me. If there was nippage.....I woulda saw it.

This is the kind of thing that makes people leave this forum.

Really? Give me a break...

CTSV_Rob
11-16-13, 12:10 AM
One break, coming up!

thebigjimsho
11-16-13, 03:26 AM
hmm...

SevillianSTS
11-16-13, 10:02 AM
I'd leave and take all my "how-to" photos with me if it came down to it.

CTSV_Rob
11-16-13, 10:58 AM
hmm...

Van Halen fan?

rand49er
11-16-13, 11:24 AM
Trust me. If there was nippage.....I woulda saw it ...Having met lolly a couple of times, I can attest to the accuracy of this statement.



Look closely, and you can just make out a nip on that :v: on the replacement avatar.

Then again, maybe it's just one of those ghost images you get from looking at a bright light too long. :D

philistine
11-16-13, 03:49 PM
I caught the image lolly-'G' posted before it was removed. I don't even know if she had hair on her head or nippage showing...I just liked the butt and the dental floss covering it.

liqidvenom
11-16-13, 08:13 PM
isnt the admins avatar tossing a middle finger? Why is it ok to show a middle finger but the female form is such a negative?

thebigjimsho
11-18-13, 01:31 AM
Preemptive strike?

rand49er
11-18-13, 11:28 AM
Preemptive strike?:florian:

lollygagger8
11-18-13, 12:20 PM
Really? Give me a break...

I think you've broken enough things already......zing!

----------


I'd put it back on there lolly. Been there forever...

Look at all the contributions you've given this site. Pretty petty of someone.

I'm tired of people moving threads around too, one day its here, next day... who knows.

I agree....very petty. I've had my avatar for YEARS.

Oh look, I'm a mod!
I'm a super mega awesome dungeon master, I can do whatever I want except move out of my mom's basement or answer civil PM's asking what was wrong with post.

rand49er
11-18-13, 12:24 PM
... I've had my avatar for YEARS ...Must've been a change somewhere up the ladder here. As you say, it's been several years with that avatar.

SevillianSTS
11-18-13, 01:40 PM
Hope I don't get banned for my avatar ;)

rand49er
11-18-13, 03:30 PM
Hope I don't get banned for my avatar ;)I'm sure we could spot a nip if we looked long enough.

DMM
11-18-13, 05:38 PM
I don't see anyone's avatar anymore.

Motown Cad
11-18-13, 11:03 PM
Oh come on lolly, get with the times. You can't have your avatar or you health plan. Did all platinum supporters have their avatars removed? If so not a good business model.

Jsmitty02z28
02-07-14, 10:07 PM
Wow. Just saw my thread pop up. I've been in school playing college football. I haven't been on in forever. Sorry for not responding. The TT kit got put on hold Louis has been busy building Daniel Raffs tubular front end for his camaro for this upcoming race season and finishing Nate Hamiltons Formula Drift car also for this upcoming season. It is not out of the picture he's just been busy with more demanding projects and since I went back to school in Arkansas and took my V with me it's hard for him to start fabricating anything. I still plan on twin turboing my V so there will be a TT kit for this soon I come back home I'm May and plan on starting it then. Again sorry for the delay.

Jason

253ctsv
02-08-14, 03:13 PM
Rear mount ftw

farsighted770
02-08-14, 04:07 PM
Rear mount ftw

said no one ever.

DMM
02-08-14, 04:14 PM
We already started Spamming here, so you'll have to start a new thread in the unlikely event this actually comes to fruition.

253ctsv
02-09-14, 05:38 AM
said no one ever.

Idk. A few guys have done them with great results

Brackets
02-09-14, 11:48 AM
Rear mount ftw

That's what she said.

runsfromdacops
02-10-14, 10:45 AM
Mines working out just fine at 900 whp

BlueZ06
02-10-14, 06:10 PM
The noise from rear mounts are epic win. I have twins front mounted on my Z06 and it sounds cool under a lot of load but a lot of time I don't get to hear them.

Motown Cad
02-10-14, 08:01 PM
Mines working out just fine at 900 whp

Runs got any more videos?

runsfromdacops
02-10-14, 08:25 PM
No sadly a timing chain bolt backed out and took out the whole motor it's getting a new motor and a 4l80e currently

H-town_V
02-10-14, 10:29 PM
No sadly a timing chain bolt backed out and took out the whole motor it's getting a new motor and a 4l80e currently

So...it's not running just fine?

lollygagger8
02-11-14, 10:27 AM
Well that escalated quickly.

philistine
02-21-14, 02:47 AM
Wow. Just saw my thread pop up. I've been in school playing college football. I haven't been on in forever. Sorry for not responding.

Well let's see here, you came out discussing how you were going to get a twin turbo designed and used some big names (sorta) as credentials - you even had a sign-up list. GL with college and playing football. Maybe post some pics when you decide to mod your V. I'm sure you'll get an audience that way but I think your thread crashed and burned.