This is the last straw! I just rebuilt my 425 out of my 79 deville and added a new cam, lifters, and valve springs. I lapped all the valves, cleaned the heads, rocker arm assemblies, put in a new timing chain, ported my heads and intake manifold and replaced all the gaskets, less the oil pan gasket. My engine had serious amounts of hard oil gunk in it. Unfortunately quite a bit fell down into the pan, and like most, I definately didn't want to take it off because of the dificulty caused by the crossmember in the way. Therefore, some gunk might have stayed down there. When the engine was back together, everything seemed fine. It started up and ran fairly rough for about 40 seconds before it stoped. There was a major problem, no oil was circulating. The oil filter and pump was dry as a bone, and there was no oil at all under the valve covers. The engine is slightly seized, Its not to bad though, because there was plenty of lubricant on the cam, lifters and the crank dips itself in oil from the pan. Im wondering why there is no oil circulating. My idea was that the oil pickup was clogged by the gunk that fell into the pan. The oil pump was assembled fine, and i can see nothing wrong with it. Theres plenty of oil in the engine. Anyone know whats wrong? :banghead:

Sounds like a clog from the gunk. Good luck pulling the engine cause that's probably what it will take to fix it.

I not going to pull it whatever I do. I know someone with a lift up to like 12 feet so i'll problably end up using that to get the pan out. Any other suggestions? PLEASE!

As I'm sure you now know, it's always best to take the little extra time to make sure that all the holes are covered or stuffed with rags to keep all that crud from falling in. Another trick is to cover the oil return holes in the lifter valley and then use a shop vac to clean that stuff out so it doen't end up in the pick-up screen.
Did you prime the oil system?
What did you use for an oil pump to block gasket?

i think that it would be best to drop the pan. becasue no matter what you do unless you drop the pan you won't ever get all the crap out of the pan. besides you said that it is slightly siezed! when you have the pan off take the main caps, and the rod caps, off and check those bearings out. last thing you wanna do is get it all back together and spin the bearings on the bottom end. it does eem like a lot of work now but it could save you from having to do it again not to metion having to spend good money to have the crank ground, that is if the crank would be able to be ground down.

changing the oil pan gasket is not as much trouble as you might think I've changed the one on my 77 deville twice one on a 76 LTD and one on a 2000 dodge intrepid with nothing more than the basic hand tools and a floor jack all you do is remove the fan cover, starter transmission inspection cover undo the exhaust at the manifold and pull the Y pipe down put a floor jack under the crank pully with a piece of 2X4 pull the engine mount through bolts off and take the bolts out of the pan lift the engine up a bit and pop the pan with a malit and thats it but its preaty dirty but not hard

you're boned, pull the motor and save yourself grief. i bet you find scored/melted bearings from running without oil. sounds like by "rebuilt" you mean just the top end.

if an engine is seized, cleaning out the pump pickup so it can suck oil isnt gonna help, since an engine can't suck oil if it can't spin. i think you'll be lucky if you didn't bend one of those weak stock cast rods, and if for some reason you can get it turned over, you'll have bearing shavings in the oil that could potentially wipe out your $$$ new cam(i'd assume that's ok if you used liberal amounts of cam lube when you put it in) while circulating through the engine.

ya gotta do what ya gotta do, and i dont think trying to fix this without pulling the motor is going to do the trick.

:yeah:

Okay, I'm not going to pull the engine. But I do need that pan out. Let me get this strait: remove the motor mount bolts, lift the engine with a floor jack under the crank pulley, and pull the pan out. One more thing, how do you prime the oil system? I guess I could take a drill and spin the oil pump rod that the dis. attaches to in order to get oil getting through the system. There was no shavings or metal at all in the oil when i drained it so I'm crossing my fingers and knocking on wood. I really don't feel like dealing with the bottom end. Is that the correct method for removing the oil pan and priming the oiling system?

yeah pretty much but theres a few thing extra to remove first starter, then exhaust Y pipe then flywheel cover pull the mounting bolts jack the engine up and take the pan loose and slide it out the back.

You say "the oil pump was assembled fine". Did you have it apart?

If you ran that engine with zero oil pressure, I can almost guarantee you that every bearing is fried. You may think that you're not pulling the engine but if it's ever to run right, you may have to pull it.

BTW.....the crank and rods depend on the correct amount of oil being pumped to them to keep them lubricated. The "splashing action" of the crank does not do this.

You say "the oil pump was assembled fine". Did you have it apart?

If you ran that engine with zero oil pressure, I can almost guarantee you that every bearing is fried. You may think that you're not pulling the engine but if it's ever to run right, you may have to pull it.

BTW.....the crank and rods depend on the correct amount of oil being pumped to them to keep them lubricated. The "splashing action" of the crank does not do this.

exactly. it isn't a magic show. if you clean out the pickup and put fresh oil in, the motor is still seized.

have fun, do it your way, then when you realized it's boned, do it the right way. the engine is going to have to come out whether you break your back getting the pan off first or not.

patgizz.......Location: medina, oh

howdy neighbor:welcome:

howdy neighbor:welcome:
same here:thumbsup: to both of you

same here:thumbsup: to both of you
Back at ya......:D (Lorain-Elyria area)

let me get this straight.... it ran for 40 seconds and stalled? I am no expert but dosn't it take a lot longer than that to sieze an engine? to me it sounds like something may be wrong w/ your new cam, the oil pump is cam driven isn't it? and in theory if it were not installed correctly couldn't it cause the "partially siezed" effect? I find the idea of the oil pump sucking up debris and totally clogging in less than a min unlikely, especially since the filter was dry, to me it sounds like the pump just simply didn't run. as for other dammage to the engine, the only way to know for sure is to pull and disassemble the engine.

Back at ya......:D (Lorain-Elyria area)
Newark area here

engines goina have to come out sooner or later best do it all at once than rack you brains trying to get the pan out then find you spun a bearing. remember all the shit you cleaned out of the top end is also on the bottom end

We must not have given him the answers he wanted to hear.

aparrently not

Oh you guys, be nice. He's only 16 and way ahead of most people his age. We all make mistakes and take our chances. No matter what happened, it will be a good learning experience for all of us.

Keep us posted and let us know what you find.
Good luck.

The responses are fine, my computers javascript is screwed up so I can only post from other computers. Is my method for priming the oil pump correct? I've checked all the bearings and stuff and made sure they weren't scored. No visible problems, the rear pistons looked the driest so I the tore down the crank and checked everything there, It looks fine. I'll coat everything with oil before I slap the pan back on just incase the pump doesn't work correctly. Once more I want to emphasize the question about priming the oil pump/oiling system. How is it done?

A converted distributor (converted to work with a drill attached) works best but a screwdriver in a drill will work too.

any news?

How Do I Prime The Oil Pump? What Else Should I Do In Preparation For Starting? I Checked All Of The Bottom End And There Was No Metal Whatsoever, And When Dissassembled Everything Had A Good Coat Of Oil On It. How Do I Prime The Pump?

I believe that www.500cid.com sells a priming shaft. You take out the distributor and put the shaft down the hole. One end mates with the oil pump drive, the other end is turned by a power drill. Prime it for several minutes AT LEAST. Put the key in the 'run' position, and have a buddy check and make sure that the oil light goes out while you are doing this. If the oil light never goes out, you still aren't moving oil.

Or, if you have a spare distributor, you can remove the distributor gear, cut the advance weight plate off, and use a drill to drive that. It works in the same way.

while your priming the engine it isn't a bad idea to turn the crank while your priming to get oul to all the rod journals. however i didn't do this when starting my rebuilt small block and it turned out fine. so if it is easy enough to turn the crank i'd say give it a shot but if you can't i don't think it will make a huge diffrence as long as you get enough oil to the top end.